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Author Topic: To those who do not care about their privacy. Why?  (Read 905 times)
KingsDen
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November 24, 2022, 09:46:37 PM
 #61


On top of that, I've also submitted all necessary information in my Binance account, which holds a relatively decent sum of money. I later realized that this was a mistake, since any money can be easily traced back to me and be subject to questions on its acquisition. On the one hand, I acknowledge that it's probably not the best option, but on the other hand, I'm not bothered to change it. Perhaps I'm way too comfortable with that idea, thinking that nothing unfortunate will happen to me (identity theft, FTX incident, etc.).
When I never entered the cryptocurrency industry I never cared about my privacy and identity. I was of the opinion that the people that needed to hide their privacy are criminals so as not to be caught by the law enforcement agents and made to pay for their crime.

But my appearance in this community made me to understand the essence of privacy but before I could get this expensive idea and understanding of privacy, I have already submitted some kind of kyc to some institutions.
Not withstanding, you can start now to preserve your privacy because your data when it stays for sometime in any database without revalidation it becomes invalidated and which could make your identity to return affresh

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November 25, 2022, 12:44:29 AM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #62

e.g. several email identities, several birthdates, usernames, some never important, some location identities, all purposely fed to different browsers, different Google trackers.
I have also started doing this, but I am still having a tough time getting rid entirely of my old e-mail account.  Everything I had was on it back then, and getting rid of it all is difficult since some people or companies still e-mail me there and there are some accounts I simply can not get rid of.

It does do a great job at telling you who is messing up with your data.  It is frustrating to find out, but you at least know whose services not to pay for anymore.  There is a GIANT drawback to this.  You get to generate so much different information you start losing the trace of it all.  I have a lot of semi important information I just forgot about because I make a new e-mail account for every new account I make, generate a new password every time I am asked to choose a password et cetera.  And I sometimes do not have the time or simply forget to write it down.

In fact, I just realized a few days ago that I never wrote down my Bitcoin Talk login link anywhere, which scared the freak out of me simply because I hate Google from the bottom of my heart.  It happened to me before that I formatted disks I later realized had extremely important information on.  I could of swore they were empty before the formatting however.  I threw away at least a hundred post-it notes containing logins for accounts I could not remember about.

Would still recommend doing this though, even with this drawback.  It is worth it in the long run.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

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November 25, 2022, 12:52:36 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #63

For the exact reason you outlined in your earlier response: Separate identities.
Correct. But, I presume that whoever has a bank account takes it for granted that holds no privacy in his electronic transactions (such as for exchanging at Bisq), right as well as he won't bother to care about identity hacks. Majority of people use Facebook and Google as intermediaries to exchange stuff such as selfies, passports, drivers licenses etc., which are enough for someone to impersonate you. Although, I do agree that centralized exchanges fail to keep their shit secure more frequently than these few companies.

I have a lot of semi important information I just forgot about because I make a new e-mail account for every new account I make, generate a new password every time I am asked to choose a password et cetera.  And I sometimes do not have the time or simply forget to write it down.
Use an encrypted directory to save things like account credentials, and obviously password generators for the most part.

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November 25, 2022, 01:36:41 PM
 #64



e.g. several email identities, several birthdates, usernames, some never important, some location identities, all purposely fed to different browsers, different Google trackers.


With so many browsers, emails, and everything else, it's desirable to provide different devices. Mac addresses and other computer hardware, as well as browser fingerprints, give away a lot of information about the owner of the hardware and are very difficult to change. For tracking services, having different browsers on the same computer does nothing. Anti-fraud system sees you as one person, not different people.



On top of that, I've also submitted all necessary information in my Binance account, which holds a relatively decent sum of money. I later realized that this was a mistake, since any money can be easily traced back to me and be subject to questions on its acquisition. On the one hand, I acknowledge that it's probably not the best option, but on the other hand, I'm not bothered to change it. Perhaps I'm way too comfortable with that idea, thinking that nothing unfortunate will happen to me (identity theft, FTX incident, etc.).

I agree with you here. If you once left information about yourself, you are already on the list. If tomorrow you decide to start behaving "correctly", the Internet still remembers everything about you. We enter the Internet with wide eyes, and with great naivety tell the world about ourselves. And growing up, changing views, there is a big problem with the destruction of information about yourself. Everything that we posted on the network is recorded and practically never deleted.

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November 25, 2022, 04:53:00 PM
 #65

As much as I preach about all things privacy and against ever completing KYC, I also admit I have a bank account. To have a bank account, I've completed KYC with the bank. It is entirely logical, as you point out, to want to keep my banking activities separate from my bitcoin activities, and just because I've completed KYC with a bank does not mean there is zero additional risk to completing KYC with a crypto exchange. On the contrary - go and do a quick web search to see how many major banks have leaked scans of their customers' passports or similar. Not that many. But when it comes to centralized exchange, there is a new leak or hack pretty much every week, if not more.
But the thing is we need to have bank account to operate in the day to day activities for processing payments for different purposes and use of digital payment as well as cards for which we need to submit to documents with the banks.But if we speak about CEX then we have different options to store our coins with our custody so why choose these exchanges who are more prone to hack and data leak.

The banking institutions can sell your data but comparatively they will not be intentionally doing so like in the case of these exchanges who are into selling your data to third parties and even on dark web and still can restrict you of funds usage from your account.

I have checked about the bank and financial sector breaches then mostly the cyber attacks are from users side and insiders who sell data or customer fill out their details on some fake website from which the hackers usually take the dump data for your personal information.But if we say that we can submit KYC over exchange then we are not having any separate indentity and all your footsteps are traceable so avoid doing this because you can have your privacy and should focus on there.

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November 25, 2022, 05:33:35 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #66

I have brought up a similar question and at times it's not that you don't care about privacy, it's that you can't un-ring a bell.
How many people got into BTC / crypto and then figured out that they have now leaked out a lot of personal info.
Yes you might be able to start new accounts and move funds to them in untraceable ways and so on.

But, the 1st time you mess up and NewDaveF is found out to be DaveF you are back where you started.

You never know what leaked where, and how it can be traced.

-Dave

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November 25, 2022, 06:21:19 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #67

But, the 1st time you mess up and NewDaveF is found out to be DaveF you are back where you started.
Are you though?  Because if you care about your privacy, you will dispose of almost anything you do after your action is complete.  As a result, you will only link the 995'th DaveF to the original DaveF by mistake.  All the other 994 DaveF's are still unknown.

If every time there is a new name, a new address, a new e-mail, a new password et cetera then you can not go back straight to where you started from.  And if your new Bitcoin address got linked to your old address by accident, just as you say there are ways to break again the link right there.

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November 25, 2022, 07:42:38 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4), vapourminer (1), PrivacyG (1)
 #68

The banking institutions can sell your data but comparatively they will not be intentionally doing so like in the case of these exchanges who are into selling your data to third parties and even on dark web and still can restrict you of funds usage from your account.
How do you know that? There's been plenty of incidents where data has been sold or misused from other companies, so why wouldn't banks do it? I personally don't trust any website or service with my data. Unfortunately, to remain legal you have to give your data to certain parties, which I'm not against, since I understand the need too. Although, banks you don't need too. You don't need to use banks, and you certainly shouldn't trust them with your data.

We're are talking about a business that actively uses YOUR money to take risks, and reward you with 0.000001% interest per year. I think it's quite common knowledge now that banks reinvest your money in an attempt to earn more money, hence the reason they offer interest rates. They don't offer interest rates if they wasn't doing that, since your money sitting there isn't appreciating in value it's deteriorating at a record breaking rate the longer it's stored there.

Remember, banks had to be bailed out not so long ago, basically because they made horrible business decisions, and quite frankly follow the industry standard of shady business practices. Selling your data or using your data for reasons that you haven't given them permission to do so, definitely isn't out of their scope.

Unfortunately, most of us are forced to use banks, and therefore give up a certain amount of data, since they're usually required to get paid by most jobs.
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November 25, 2022, 08:10:24 PM
 #69

I agree with you here. If you once left information about yourself, you are already on the list. If tomorrow you decide to start behaving "correctly", the Internet still remembers everything about you. We enter the Internet with wide eyes, and with great naivety tell the world about ourselves. And growing up, changing views, there is a big problem with the destruction of information about yourself. Everything that we posted on the network is recorded and practically never deleted.
On the one hand, it's somewhat how I see things—exchanges already have my information, and even if I withdraw all my funds from there, they already know that at some point, I had the X amount of money deposited. Fortunately, I haven't deposited my bitcoin on any exchange and it is still considered somewhat private. On the other hand, however, I believe that it's never too late to spice up your privacy. Although, as you've already mentioned, nothing is deleted from the internet.
When I never entered the cryptocurrency industry I never cared about my privacy and identity. I was of the opinion that the people that needed to hide their privacy are criminals so as not to be caught by the law enforcement agents and made to pay for their crime.
That was also my number one excuse, I'm not doing anything wrong, why should I care? Boy, was I wrong.

R


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November 25, 2022, 09:37:25 PM
 #70

im calling B.S on privacyG laughable attempt to pretend that he is private and uses disposable ID every time he uses a CEX or even a DEX

firstly when using a CEX that asks for KYC they dont ask for just a scummy name and disposable email.
they ask for name location and.. get this. photo ID a recent picture of self holding the ID and an email that they send a verification too

take coinbase. when you first set up. you are kind of in limbo for 14 days you can exchange bot not withdraw

what privacy is really peed off with is not that his life is easy because. well if it was easy then this topic would not exist..  he does what he said today.. but that life is not easy to do as he pretends to do  today.

he is peed off that exchanges both CEX and DEX are not as he dreams and protests as the way his life works. and he in many months, along with people near him, have been trying to push the blame onto bitcoin network, rather then the businesses.

in like 2014 many people learned the hard way what DEX is soon to learn
its the example of localbitcoins.com

al those independant exchanges using independant bids and asks to transfer p2p..

their banks soon start asking questions about the wire transfers
why is this person that paid you asking for a refund(chargeback scam)
why on a personal account are you getting and giving so many wire transfers to/from so many unrelated people
why you are you getting random incomes amounting to over $XXk not from a company/employer but so many different people

what then happens is they need to register for a business account set themselves up as a money transmitter and start KYC their customers
not just for regulation. but to prove to a bank that the customer legitimately bought something because they had all correct ID to prove they are the buyer using the buyers account. thus to deter chargeback scammers

DEX is only not noticing this because most personal account users are only doing silly small amounts of trade. not $1.5k+ week for over a year to hit certain banking thresholds

DEX has not hit the headache that localbitcoin users did.. due to lack of popularity/use
as soon as users are doing multiple wires that total ~$£75k a year banks start to notice things on personal accounts.. sometimes alot sooner depending on bank terms of use of wire transfers


I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 26, 2022, 01:48:07 AM
Merited by vapourminer (3), PrivacyG (1)
 #71

"Secret secrets are no fun, secret secrets can hurt someone".

^they gotta stop teaching this bullshit. And no, I don't mean lie to your significant other, business partner, or friends.

Instead, we need to teach our youth proper passphrase hygiene. We need to teach our youth that they live in a world where a single method of security does not cut it. There are ways to beat security, and ways to prevent hacks, and those two worlds are constantly colliding. That's why the fundamental concept of communicating amongst adversaries is so beautiful.

The word adversary is not negative in connotation like most people thing when it comes to privacy. They are just group "C" that lies in the midst of "A" and "B" communication. Group "C" isn't anyone in particular, but all of the possible adversaries out there.

Like I said before, there are people out there in which their sole purpose lies within the harm, suffering, and trolling of innocent people. It is what it is. Sort of like in an open-pvp game that has no function to disable pvp, or has no safe zone. What happens in those games, in those environments? You get players at the top of the ladder who go out there just to kill. Because they can!

There's discussion alot about games that are like this, and some like Runescape and WoW have communities that have various takes on how they regulate pvp.

The difference between games and life, is that the pvp is never turned off. It's on forever, even if there are people in the media, government, your family, your professors, and your friends that try and convince you otherwise. The worst part is you never really know who the Group "C" is, even when you think you do.
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November 26, 2022, 01:58:39 AM
Merited by LoyceV (4), vapourminer (1), PrivacyG (1)
 #72

But, the 1st time you mess up and NewDaveF is found out to be DaveF you are back where you started.
Are you though?  Because if you care about your privacy, you will dispose of almost anything you do after your action is complete.  As a result, you will only link the 995'th DaveF to the original DaveF by mistake.  All the other 994 DaveF's are still unknown.

If every time there is a new name, a new address, a new e-mail, a new password et cetera then you can not go back straight to where you started from.  And if your new Bitcoin address got linked to your old address by accident, just as you say there are ways to break again the link right there.

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PrivacyG

I'm not saying that it really can't be done. But, IMO since I am so far down that road already it's going to be a lot more difficult then had it been done from the beginning.

Off the top of my head, I have met F2F at least 6 people on this board and had dealings with a lot more. So if DaveF disappears and someone else from this area starts occasionally buying and selling collectables and hardware sooner or later someone may figure it out.

I drop off all the exchanges and move all my existing coins through enough hops and places tat they could never be traced back to me.
And so on.

It's not that I don't care, just that past a certain point, at least for me, it's going to be a major battle.
Do I give up the 10% cash back on gas with my Gemini card? And a dozen other things.

So I'm not saying it can't be. But, since you asked shy don't I care, it's not that I don't it's just that since I am so far down the road the time and cost and effort for me now is just going to be greater then the benefits. For now. If I retire and wind up with more free time that may change.  

-Dave

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November 26, 2022, 08:41:47 AM
Merited by vapourminer (2)
 #73

I have a lot of semi important information I just forgot about because I make a new e-mail account for every new account I make, generate a new password every time I am asked to choose a password et cetera.  And I sometimes do not have the time or simply forget to write it down.
Then use a good password manager such as KeePass. Every new account goes in there automatically, meaning you never lose track.

Unfortunately, most of us are forced to use banks, and therefore give up a certain amount of data, since they're usually required to get paid by most jobs.
This is something I accept. As much as I hate banks, I couldn't get paid for my job without one. I know I have zero privacy with my bank, I know I can be censored, and I know my funds can be frozen against my will. These are all significant drawbacks, but drawbacks I must accept to be able to by paid for my job. However, the whole point I got involved in bitcoin was that it does not possess these drawbacks. The whole point I got involved in bitcoin was to regain some financial privacy, to hold my own coins, to be censorship resistant, to be free of third parties, to be free of arbitrary seizures, and so on. Why would I get involved in bitcoin for all these reasons, and then immediately give them all up and go back to a fiat model by using a centralized exchange?
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November 26, 2022, 12:26:52 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #74

Unfortunately, most of us are forced to use banks, and therefore give up a certain amount of data, since they're usually required to get paid by most jobs.
This is something I accept. As much as I hate banks, I couldn't get paid for my job without one. I know I have zero privacy with my bank, I know I can be censored, and I know my funds can be frozen against my will. These are all significant drawbacks, but drawbacks I must accept to be able to by paid for my job. However, the whole point I got involved in bitcoin was that it does not possess these drawbacks. The whole point I got involved in bitcoin was to regain some financial privacy, to hold my own coins, to be censorship resistant, to be free of third parties, to be free of arbitrary seizures, and so on. Why would I get involved in bitcoin for all these reasons, and then immediately give them all up and go back to a fiat model by using a centralized exchange?

That does bring up an interesting point. At least here in the US there are a lot of 'unbanked' people, usually not by choice. It just costs them more to exist so to speak. There are check cashing places that do exist that will give you cash for your paycheck, but they charge a hefty fee. Local banks will cash checks written by their customers, but if you work for a large company your payroll check might be written from a corporate bank on the other side of the country.

Some places give you a payroll debit card, but that brings in another set of issues.

Would you take 10% off the top of your pay to not have to use a bank?

-Dave

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November 26, 2022, 01:50:52 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #75

Would you take 10% off the top of your pay to not have to use a bank?
Hmm. Probably not at the end of the day, for the reasons you discussed above - I already have sacrificed my privacy to be part of the fiat banking system, and trying to disentangle myself from it now would be exceedingly complicated and does not allow me to fully reclaim that privacy. All the solutions which avoid having a bank account that you mentioned still carry exposure to all the same risks - third parties, non-ownership, censorship, etc. - and indeed make these risks that much more significant. And of course I can still move my fiat in to bitcoin any time I like in a private way using peer-to-peer trading.

If I had an option to avoid fiat altogether and to be paid directly in bitcoin, I would take that.
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November 26, 2022, 02:12:48 PM
 #76

Personally, privacy matters a lot to me which is why I absolutely detest KYC and provide it only when absolutely necessary. The truth is that most people around the world don't mind giving up their privacy to reliable, central authorities.

Why? Because their mindset was tweaked to trust such authorities since they were born through education etc. Basically, they were brainwashed smartly.

The silver lining here is that more and more people are questioning this very issue as time passes.

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November 26, 2022, 02:27:00 PM
 #77

As much as I hate banks, I couldn't get paid for my job without one.
Would you take 10% off the top of your pay to not have to use a bank?
If I had an option to avoid fiat altogether and to be paid directly in bitcoin, I would take that.
What happened to cash? Here, since 2015, only the amount above the minimum wage can be paid in cash. But I don't know of any company that (still) does this, and I think that's quite bad. Abandoning cash in favour of banks gives more power to banks, which allows them to further increase fees. None of that is in our interest.

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November 26, 2022, 02:38:58 PM
 #78

to reliable, central authorities.
I was not aware that such a thing existed. Tongue

The silver lining here is that more and more people are questioning this very issue as time passes.
True, but you have to do more and more just to stay at the same baseline. Someone who questions this issue now and goes to great lengths to reclaim some of their privacy probably still has more data gathered on them than the least privacy conscious individual 30 or even 20 years ago.

What happened to cash?
Employers stopped offering it, and most employees didn't care or even welcomed the move. I'd probably have as much change of being paid in cash as I would of being paid in bitcoin.
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November 26, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
 #79

I have the same case above. If my company has an option to pay me on cash I would grab that but my current stable job is only paying using a specific bank. I also do care about my identity and if it is not necessary, I wouldn't submit KYC to any banks out there. Another one is the convenience of services like exchange. I'm KYC'ed in Binance and yeah there's a risk in it but I can't resist the convenience of using since most of the things I do in the space is available there. It's hard to balance the convenience and privacy of platforms since I'm a busy person, I need an all in one application that suits my needs.
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November 26, 2022, 03:44:18 PM
 #80

im calling B.S on privacyG laughable attempt to pretend that he is private and uses disposable ID every time he uses a CEX or even a DEX
Quote the part of my post where I said I use a disposable ID every time I use a CEX.  First off, I am not using any CEX as of now.  Any of my old Exchange accounts have been closed, any account that is still open and can not be closed has been left behind for probably years now.

firstly when using a CEX that asks for KYC they dont ask for just a scummy name and disposable email.
Never have I ever completed KYC anywhere Cryptocurrency related.  I actually think I have never completed KYC anywhere on the Internet.

along with people near him, have been trying to push the blame onto bitcoin network, rather then the businesses.
Quote me where I blame Bitcoin.

al those independant exchanges using independant bids and asks to transfer p2p..
their banks soon start asking questions about the wire transfers
I have never received or sent money to or from my bank account for anything Cryptocurrency related.

im calling B.S on privacyG laughable attempt to pretend that he is private and uses disposable ID every time he uses a CEX or even a DEX
Rather a laughable attempt on your side to prove something out of pure speculation.  I never said I ever had perfect privacy.  I consider I still do not.  There are probably still a lot of mistakes I make.

I never said I have never had or do not have accounts on centralized services that never respect privacy of their users.  But I am trying my best to avoid them every time I can.

-----

It's not that I don't care, just that past a certain point, at least for me, it's going to be a major battle.
Do I give up the 10% cash back on gas with my Gemini card? And a dozen other things.

So I'm not saying it can't be. But, since you asked shy don't I care, it's not that I don't it's just that since I am so far down the road the time and cost and effort for me now is just going to be greater then the benefits. For now. If I retire and wind up with more free time that may change.  
Fair enough.  Really appreciate giving out an explanation.  I will write down my thoughts on the Gemini cash back part.  If you are willing to use a Credit Card, then your information is out there anyway whether it is Gemini or any other issuer.  They know everything anyway, so I would take that 10% as well.

What I disagree with is signing up for a grocery store loyalty card.  In that situation, I believe no.  It is not worth it.  The cash back is not worth the information you give away.

Would you take 10% off the top of your pay to not have to use a bank?
It is known already that you have a job, it is known already that you earn a specific amount of money.  By having that money go through a Bank account, it is a matter of Do you care that much if one more party knows about your dealings?

I would not take the 10% off the top of my pay check, but I would only use my Bank account for that payment.  Withdraw the full amount once the payment is there.  For most of us, accepting a 10% cut just for the sake of not having a bank account is luxury.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

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