Cryptocurrency Law in Brazil

[zasad@]

https://portaldobitcoin.uol.com.br/lei-das-criptomoedas-e-aprovada-pela-camara-dos-deputados-e-vai-para-sancao-de-bolsonaro/
"The Chamber of Deputies approved, after seven years of debate, earlier this Tuesday evening (29) Bill (PL) 4,041/2021, which regulates the cryptocurrency market in Brazil. The text has been approved, dehydrated from the most controversial points and will now be sanctioned by the President of the Republic, Jair Bolsonaro."

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[bitmover]

As I am from Brazil, I have been following this for quite some time.

There is a fundamental problem here with this law, which can be checked in the portuguese version:

https://cointelegraph.com.br/news/on-a-historic-day-deputies-approve-cryptocurrency-bill-in-brazil
Abccripto, a group of old and low quality Brazilian exchanges is behind this law.

This group have tried many times before to as government to ban binance from Brazil, as binance offers a high quality service for very low fees.

You can see here abccripto asking central bank to ban binance
https://www.abcripto.com.br/post/abcripto-aciona-bacen-mpf-e-cvm-contra-corretora-binancehttps://exame.com/future-of-money/dinheiro-tendencias/abcripto-pede-que-bc-mpf-e-cvm-suspendam-operacoes-da-binance-no-brasil/

This group wouls never support this law if it didnt help them in their goal

In the end, national exchanges cannot compete with binance. They offer a bad service (low volume, few coins, high fees, instability and website goes down when price drops etc.. ). So they are trying to ban binance.

Biannce has now about 60% of Brazilian daily volume.

[inthelongrun]

As I am from Brazil, I have been following this for quite some time.

There is a fundamental problem here with this law, which can be checked in the portuguese version:

https://cointelegraph.com.br/news/on-a-historic-day-deputies-approve-cryptocurrency-bill-in-brazil
Abccripto, a group of old and low quality Brazilian exchanges is behind this law.

This group have tried many times before to as government to ban binance from Brazil, as binance offers a high quality service for very low fees.

You can see here abccripto asking central bank to ban binance
https://www.abcripto.com.br/post/abcripto-aciona-bacen-mpf-e-cvm-contra-corretora-binancehttps://exame.com/future-of-money/dinheiro-tendencias/abcripto-pede-que-bc-mpf-e-cvm-suspendam-operacoes-da-binance-no-brasil/

This group wouls never support this law if it didnt help them in their goal

In the end, national exchanges cannot compete with binance. They offer a bad service (low volume, few coins, high fees, instability and website goes down when price drops etc.. ). So they are trying to ban binance.

Biannce has now about 60% of Brazilian daily volume.

This seems like the same scenario in my country. A group is trying to not just block Binance from getting a license but to ban it and file a case and impose penalties since many of my countrymen including me are using Binance. Although current exchanges here are improving, they are still miles behind what Binance offers like the lower fees, high volume, plenty of markets and it is easier to use. I can feel who's behind the movement since that company is not offering BNB or BUSD while it offers some coins that have lower values.

Nonetheless, the news is still positive, especially for Brazilian crypto enthusiasts. Maybe the next debate is about letting Binance enter the Brazilian market.

[zasad@]

Biannce has now about 60% of Brazilian daily volume.

There are no Russian crypto-exchanges in Russia either, and funds on binance can be blocked at any time and there are limits on the balance of funds.
Many users use VPNs and drops who are citizens of other countries. This is not safe, but keeping funds on centralized exchanges is also not safe.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Brazil president Jair Bolsonaro signed a bill to create crypto payment regulations. Jair Bolsonaro made no modifications to the bill that was approved by the congress before signing it into law on (thursday December 22), according to report the new law was to take effect in 180 days from when it was signed. The newly signed law only makes crypto legal in Brazil and also move the country closer to embrace digital currency, is like making Brazil to be amongst other crypto countries per say.
The bill was approved earlier this year by the senate but they were kind of dormant during because of the recent election, however the bill gained new urgency following the multibillion-dollar implosion of FTX.

https://www.competitionpolicyinternational.com/brazilian-president-signs-bill-creating-crypto-regulations/

[bmwister]

https://portaldobitcoin.uol.com.br/lei-das-criptomoedas-e-aprovada-pela-camara-dos-deputados-e-vai-para-sancao-de-bolsonaro/
"The Chamber of Deputies approved, after seven years of debate, earlier this Tuesday evening (29) Bill (PL) 4,041/2021, which regulates the cryptocurrency market in Brazil. The text has been approved, dehydrated from the most controversial points and will now be sanctioned by the President of the Republic, Jair Bolsonaro."

The law introduces the definition of a virtual asset as "a digital representation of value that can be negotiated or transferred electronically and used for payments or as an investment." Thus, the legitimacy that BTC gains as a means of payment can stimulate financial activity in the country.

But the level of this activity will depend on the actions of the local regulator. It is expected that these functions will be shared by the Securities and Exchange Commission, which will be responsible for crypto assets classified as securities, and the Central Bank, which will be responsible for all other cryptocurrencies.

Did you know that the new law criminalizes fraud using digital currencies? This is punishable by a fine and two to six years in prison.

In addition, crypto companies are required to obtain virtual asset service provider licenses.

However, since the law will come into force 180 days after its signing, it will not really be in force until June 20, 2023. That is, until then, bitcoin is not actually an authorized means of payment.

[stompix]

Brazil president Jair Bolsonaro signed a bill to create crypto payment regulations. Jair Bolsonaro made no modifications to the bill that was approved by the congress before signing it into law on (thursday December 22),

Hmm, this one is a surprise and a pleasant one.

I wouldn't have expected that in the last days of his mandate, especially with all the tantrum that was around those elections, the protests, Bolsonaro himself leaving the country at the end of the month, he would still care about that bill and get it signed. Lula never said anything else but the need of regulations about crypto, is the guy pro/anti or just simply neutral? With him on a charge to change everything Bolsonaro has done, I hope he will leave this alone as it's not hurting anybody! Just drop that stupid plan of a made-up common currency that has no future and use bitcoin!

[bitmover]

Lula never said anything else but the need of regulations about crypto, is the guy pro/anti or just simply neutral? With him on a charge to change everything Bolsonaro has done, I hope he will leave this alone as it's not hurting anybody! Just drop that stupid plan of a made-up common currency that has no future and use bitcoin!

Lula's party is strongly against bitcoin  , as most socialists/leftist parties.  Recently an important figure of Lula government said that he "only believe in state backed currencies"
https://livecoins.com.br/economista-lula-bitcoin-so-acredito-em-moedas-estatais/

Lula is strongly favor this common currency in Latin America,which is most likely going to be terrible for Brazil...

We are now going in a different direction,  not the same as bolsonaro , when we had more libertarian economy  policies..

[stompix]

Lula's party is strongly against bitcoin  , as most socialists/leftist parties. 

Oh crap!, this is what I get from being even once a week positive on something, I knew when I edited the post by mistake that was a sign! 
As a slight hope, it's still just one advisor saying that, but as I went through the article you posted, of course using google translate, there is a paragraph there in bold

Governo Lula deve rediscutir lei das criptomoedas

Are they actually planning on abolishing the just-signed regulations? Or it's just a journalist with too much time and a deadline for an article?

Lula is strongly favor this common currency in Latin America,which is most likely going to be terrible for Brazil...

Actually, I think a common currency with Argentina would be good for Brazil for a while as it can boost exports, I don't know if you have a positive trade balance but that would help for a while till all comes crashing down, for Argentina, yes, it going to be a replay of the Greek crisis every month till there is no Argentina left.

[bitmover]

Governo Lula deve rediscutir lei das criptomoedas

Are they actually planning on abolishing the just-signed regulations? Or it's just a journalist with too much time and a deadline for an article?

This is most likely.
Globo also posted, it is the biggest jornal in Brazil.

https://oglobo.globo.com/blogs/lauro-jardim/post/2023/01/governo-lula-vai-rediscutir-marco-de-criptomoedas.ghtml

Expedito Netto (PSD-RO), o deputado federal que relatou o marco legal das criptomoedas e integrou a equipe de transição do governo, diz que a gestão Lula ainda não tem uma definição sobre as novas regras para o setor e vai reiniciar o debate sobre o tema. 

O projeto que cria diretrizes para o mercado de ativos digitais foi aprovado em novembro pelo Congresso e sancionado no fim de dezembro por Jair Bolsonaro.   


Google translate

Expedito Netto (PSD-RO), the federal deputy who reported on the legal framework for cryptocurrencies and was part of the government's transition team, says that the Lula administration still does not have a definition on the new rules for the sector and will restart the debate on the theme.


The project that creates guidelines for the digital asset market was approved in November by Congress and sanctioned at the end of December by Jair Bolsonaro.

[zasad@]

https://news.bitcoin.com/brazilian-digital-real-passes-public-blockchain-pilot-test-with-flying-colors/
Brazilian Digital Real Passes Public Blockchain Pilot Test With Flying Colors
"A tokenized version of the digital real, the Brazilian central bank digital currency (CBDC), has passed a public blockchain pilot test successfully. The test, which was carried out by Mercado Bitcoin, a local exchange, using the Stellar network, shows that the digital real token can be used in public blockchains following all compliance rules set by Brazilian laws."

[JayJuanGee]

https://news.bitcoin.com/brazilian-digital-real-passes-public-blockchain-pilot-test-with-flying-colors/
Brazilian Digital Real Passes Public Blockchain Pilot Test With Flying Colors
"A tokenized version of the digital real, the Brazilian central bank digital currency (CBDC), has passed a public blockchain pilot test successfully. The test, which was carried out by Mercado Bitcoin, a local exchange, using the Stellar network, shows that the digital real token can be used in public blockchains following all compliance rules set by Brazilian laws."

Gosh.. that sounds scary.

I would be wary of any CBDC.. whether it has been labelled as "approved" or not.. or "passing tests" that are certified by the govt or not.. sounds real scary to keep much if any value on such likely shitcoin or to have much reliance that you would have privacy in transacting it or the fear that at any time, such value storage and/or transaction ability could get shut off.

Bitcoin is open source.. so seems way the fuck more reliable than any other token that is purported to by "safe" "certified" or whatever other bullshit label that "authorities" want to place upon such "currencies."

Hopefully, people (normies and otherwise) are smart enough to transfer decent amounts of their value on bitcoin and to hold their bitcoin in their own wallets... so that they do not get tricked into believing that whatever value that they have accumulated and/or stored can realistically be saved on any kind of closed sourced system in which they might not be assured that the value will be there in the future or able to be transferred prior to any such time in which the value could be taken or diluted.

[zasad@]

https://news.bitcoin.com/brazilian-digital-real-passes-public-blockchain-pilot-test-with-flying-colors/
Brazilian Digital Real Passes Public Blockchain Pilot Test With Flying Colors
"A tokenized version of the digital real, the Brazilian central bank digital currency (CBDC), has passed a public blockchain pilot test successfully. The test, which was carried out by Mercado Bitcoin, a local exchange, using the Stellar network, shows that the digital real token can be used in public blockchains following all compliance rules set by Brazilian laws."

Gosh.. that sounds scary.

I would be wary of any CBDC.. whether it has been labelled as "approved" or not.. or "passing tests" that are certified by the govt or not.. sounds real scary to keep much if any value on such likely shitcoin or to have much reliance that you would have privacy in transacting it or the fear that at any time, such value storage and/or transaction ability could get shut off.

Bitcoin is open source.. so seems way the fuck more reliable than any other token that is purported to by "safe" "certified" or whatever other bullshit label that "authorities" want to place upon such "currencies."

Hopefully, people (normies and otherwise) are smart enough to transfer decent amounts of their value on bitcoin and to hold their bitcoin in their own wallets... so that they do not get tricked into believing that whatever value that they have accumulated and/or stored can realistically be saved on any kind of closed sourced system in which they might not be assured that the value will be there in the future or able to be transferred prior to any such time in which the value could be taken or diluted.

If banks work well in the country and there are no problems with P2P transfers, then CBDC will not be popular.

But I do not consider bitcoin to be a safe asset. Now it is safe, but in the first 8 years, more than 15 million coins were mined, and manipulators own bitcoin. When everyone is convinced that bitcoin is the safest asset, then the manipulators can sell their coins. I analyze many coins, and if I were to make a new digital gold, then I would plan a more even emission of coins. Ethereum has even more fun, and 72 million coins have been printed. Tokenomics looks more like speculation to me.

[stompix]

How things go downhill so fast:

Mercado Bitcoin issues a token on Stellar Network, controlled by the government and on top of that we have

included traceability, know your customer and antifraud procedures, derived from a digital decentralized identity system.

full house, royal flush of stay away from this thing.

And we find some new interesting thing from them, the most important being the Bitcoin is not a currency!

Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDC) and crypto assets (also known as crypto currencies) are not synonymous. On the contrary, they are very different in many ways. For example, the nature of crypto assets is that of an asset. Therefore, they do not have all the fundamental characteristics to be considered currency – that they serve as a medium of exchange, store of value and unit of account – and they are not issued by monetary authorities (central banks).

In turn, CBDC are de facto and de jure currencies, retaining all their characteristic

Funny coming from a government whose currency lost 70% versus the $ in the last decade. 

[zasad@]

Brazilian March 1, 2023
https://portaldobitcoin.uol.com.br/criptomoeda-do-nubank-tera-100-bilhoes-de-unidades-e-plano-de-airdrop-para-clientes-fieis/
Nubank Digital Bank Launched Nucoin This Wednesday

EN
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/19/buffett-backed-digital-bank-nubank-to-launch-its-own-cryptocurrency.html
"Nubank said Wednesday it will launch the token, called Nucoin, in the first half of 2023.
Nubank said it would invite 2,000 customers to take part in a forum group for guiding the development of Nucoin.
The new token offering comes against a bleak backdrop for cryptocurrencies, with bitcoin and other major digital assets down over 50% year-to-date."

[JayJuanGee]

https://news.bitcoin.com/brazilian-digital-real-passes-public-blockchain-pilot-test-with-flying-colors/
Brazilian Digital Real Passes Public Blockchain Pilot Test With Flying Colors
"A tokenized version of the digital real, the Brazilian central bank digital currency (CBDC), has passed a public blockchain pilot test successfully. The test, which was carried out by Mercado Bitcoin, a local exchange, using the Stellar network, shows that the digital real token can be used in public blockchains following all compliance rules set by Brazilian laws."

Gosh.. that sounds scary.

I would be wary of any CBDC.. whether it has been labelled as "approved" or not.. or "passing tests" that are certified by the govt or not.. sounds real scary to keep much if any value on such likely shitcoin or to have much reliance that you would have privacy in transacting it or the fear that at any time, such value storage and/or transaction ability could get shut off.

Bitcoin is open source.. so seems way the fuck more reliable than any other token that is purported to by "safe" "certified" or whatever other bullshit label that "authorities" want to place upon such "currencies."

Hopefully, people (normies and otherwise) are smart enough to transfer decent amounts of their value on bitcoin and to hold their bitcoin in their own wallets... so that they do not get tricked into believing that whatever value that they have accumulated and/or stored can realistically be saved on any kind of closed sourced system in which they might not be assured that the value will be there in the future or able to be transferred prior to any such time in which the value could be taken or diluted.

If banks work well in the country and there are no problems with P2P transfers, then CBDC will not be popular.

Desperate bullies who are trying to hang onto their relevance do not work like that.

Have you noticed what is happening in Nigeria.. with the recent bullying attempts with their CBDC? How about in india, when higher note rupees were discontinued?  Govt and banks pull all kinds of bullshit moves when they are trying to stop, discourage and/or dissuade people from moving to and/or using more sound forms of money.... Capital controls play into the matter too.. and many governments are very afraid in regards to people being able to move their value and/or to spend their value how they choose... so it does not seem accurate to be presuming that things are "hunky-dorey" in the world and the various forums of CBDCs are not going to continue to include coercive elements.

But I do not consider bitcoin to be a safe asset.

Of course, bitcoin is not safe.. and the level of your safety with it depends on what "attack vector" you are trying to hedge against and/or offset, so it is up to you whether you believe bitcoin to be a hedge and/or one of the options that you want to "take the chances" of keeping.  Sure you can keep all of your value in traditional assets, and "safe" government approved assets, and find out how well that is going to do for you.. Maybe you will be fine?  You have to figure out those kinds of things for yourself concerning whether to allocate anything to bitcoin and if so, then how much to allocate - including how to store it.. and whether you trust third parties to hold your cornz or if it might be better to take some measures to hold your own.. .

Now it is safe, but in the first 8 years, more than 15 million coins were mined, and manipulators own bitcoin.

Sure since bitcoin came onto the scene 2009/2010 it hardly even had any market value.. so perhaps going back 8-10 years we could then start to trace bitcoin having more and more of a market value.. maybe 2011 or 2012 more and more ways to get bitcoin coming available for regular people and more developments that made it easier to hold it privately started becoming more popular and available in 2013/2014.  

There have always been some manipulators in bitcoin, and the kinds of manipulators (or even the attacks on bitcoin) have become more sophisticated, including various attempts to facilitate some financial instruments (maybe we could call them paper bitcoins since they might be settled in dollars rather than in bitcoin) to be used as attempts to manipulate BTC's price downwardly, and so some of those financial instruments run risks of getting reckt, too... that is if the BTC price moves against them and they cannot stop it from moving up while throwing a lot of fiat at bitcoin in order to attempt to suppress the BTC prices (or maybe even fake bitcoins - or even some other bullshit behaviors like FTX and perhaps some other exchanges had been doing and not having the bitcoin that they claimed to have had).

When everyone is convinced that bitcoin is the safest asset, then the manipulators can sell their coins.

Bitcoin remains a baby.  NOT very many people own it.  You make your choices whether you want to participate in accumulating bitcoin, and if so how much and if so how you are going to attempt to protect your BTC holdings when you likely realize that outrageous BTC price moves (including to the downside) are not only likely but also likely to be inevitable (although we do not always have abilities to know where the bottoms are and when the are in and if there might be some points in which you are no longer able to get prices below certain price thresholds.. In early 2016, there was nearly 6 months of seeming desperation to keep prices below $500.. and then that battle ended up kind of continuing through the whole year, including in early 2017 there were a lot of DOWNity prognosticators that were saying that going back below $500 was inevitable.. and scared a lot of folks out of large portions of their BTC. .which surely did not work out very well for any of those who stuck to their position of waiting for sub $500 BTC prices to return.  We have a lot of those kinds of examples in bitcoin and some of those folks become bitter because they sell too much bitcoin too soon because they were filled with doom and gloom and negative thoughts that did not end up playing out and caused them to get reckt due to their failure/refusal to sufficiently and adequately prepare for UP - because they were too big of scaredy cats to consider that there were manipulators that would be able to get their way with bitcoin and it did not end up happening.  I expect that there will continue to be these kinds of periods and hopefully you do not allow yourself to be a casualty that fails/refuses to prepare for UP and keeps talking about downward possibilities that may or may not end up playing out.

I analyze many coins, and if I were to make a new digital gold, then I would plan a more even emission of coins. Ethereum has even more fun, and 72 million coins have been printed. Tokenomics looks more like speculation to me.

Fuck shitcoins.

Ethereum is a scam and there is not any coin that comes even close to bitcoin in terms of whatever you may believe that you are studying in regards to "tokenomics".. and hopefully you sufficiently and adequately understand bitcoin.  Another thing to keep in mind in order to take over the incumbent position (which happens to be king daddy bitcoin), you better have something in the order of 10x improvement.. otherwise you are not likely to be able to do it.

Hopefully, you are not allocating (or would it be wasting) too much of your time, energies and perhaps value in terms of investing into shitcoins.. and I saw a lot of this in earlier years, where people would hardly have any bitcoin, and I would suggest not going to below 10% allocations, if they wanted to dabble in shitcoins, so therefore maybe something like 90% bitcoin and 10% shitcoins would be about the maximum that I would suggest for those wanting to be adventurous in wasting their time, energies and values to fuck around with crap... (or maybe we could suggest it to be gambling?).. but hey, you do you, and if you think that you are using your time, energies and values wisely and prudently, then so be it. You have the right to exercise your own discretions regarding how to mange those kinds of investments... or maybe you just love the thrill of gambling, new things and you believe dumb propaganda about the various ways that the shitcoins are going to overtake bitcoin blah blah blah.

How things go downhill so fast:

Mercado Bitcoin issues a token on Stellar Network, controlled by the government and on top of that we have......

Yeah.. I thought that Mercado Bitcoin was mostly bitcoin oriented, and they must have either lost their way or gotten taken over by a coup d'etat

[zasad@]

..

Thank you for your opinion.
If you look from the point of view of manipulation, then for me Bitcoin and Ethereum are "the same eggs, only a side view" (C) (Russian proverb). The manipulators mined and bought cheap when they needed it, and then, with the help of pumps and dumps, they dropped extra passengers from the rocket. They own the media and can cause most people to become disillusioned and sell their assets.
But a lot of projects work on Ethereum, there are stocks and bonds and currencies of various banks, but there is nothing on Bitcoin. So I'm more worried about my bitcoins than ethereum.
The bitcoin ecosystem is very expensive to maintain, and I don't believe it won't have problems with high power consumption when countries ban mining in the future.

[JayJuanGee]

..

Thank you for your opinion.
If you look from the point of view of manipulation, then for me Bitcoin and Ethereum are "the same eggs, only a side view" (C) (Russian proverb). The manipulators mined and bought cheap when they needed it, and then, with the help of pumps and dumps, they dropped extra passengers from the rocket. They own the media and can cause most people to become disillusioned and sell their assets.
But a lot of projects work on Ethereum, there are stocks and bonds and currencies of various banks, but there is nothing on Bitcoin. So I'm more worried about my bitcoins than ethereum.
The bitcoin ecosystem is very expensive to maintain, and I don't believe it won't have problems with high power consumption when countries ban mining in the future.

You can believe those various bullshit pie in the sky ethereum talking points all that you like, and make your investments (allocations) according to your beliefs.  It's not for me to attempt to convince you otherwise, especially if you seem to be unwilling and/or unable to see the bullshit contained therein... .. and sure it could take a while for the various bullshit smoke and mirrors, house of cards Rube Goldberg machine aspects of ethereum to come falling down, including their various bullshit lack of abilities for normies to verify how many coins there are and how those pre-mined coins are also ongoingly used for ethereum manipulation purposes... what's coming next?  Unstaking?  Do you believe it? Good for you.  Hopefully you don't get too burned by the nonsense in terms of if they might be able to keep those balls in the air for long enough to you to get out?  Does it matter?  1-2 years?  5 years?  10 years?

 Can they keep it going longer than that?  Maybe your timeline does not matter, but surely there are some folks who believe that bullshit and may well invest into ethereum while considering it to have some kind of a solid (or similar to bitcoin) foundation when it is not even in the ballpark of solid enough (or close to bitcoin in terms of strength of foundation)... but I must admit that so far, that crap has been pretty good at keeping its balls in the air with the various scams tokens built upon other scam tokens that it has been able to facilitate.. and perhaps even some non-scammers might have gotten richie in the process too.. some normies have been able to profit, even though almost everything there has scammy and bullshit token printing or ponzi scheme angles.. so sure there are some strengths in network effects, even when those network effects are built upon the combination of various kinds of vaporware or money printing scams (and there might even be some legitimate projects in there too.. perhaps? perhaps?)

yes... nation states and large institutions can also get involved in scams, ponzi schemes and money printing and sometimes they can facilitate such nonsense in ways that fit quite well with their fiat money printing and deceptive stealing of value from people practices.

[zasad@]

..

Thank you for your opinion.
If you look from the point of view of manipulation, then for me Bitcoin and Ethereum are "the same eggs, only a side view" (C) (Russian proverb). The manipulators mined and bought cheap when they needed it, and then, with the help of pumps and dumps, they dropped extra passengers from the rocket. They own the media and can cause most people to become disillusioned and sell their assets.
But a lot of projects work on Ethereum, there are stocks and bonds and currencies of various banks, but there is nothing on Bitcoin. So I'm more worried about my bitcoins than ethereum.
The bitcoin ecosystem is very expensive to maintain, and I don't believe it won't have problems with high power consumption when countries ban mining in the future.

You can believe those various bullshit pie in the sky ethereum talking points all that you like, and make your investments (allocations) according to your beliefs.  It's not for me to attempt to convince you otherwise, especially if you seem to be unwilling and/or unable to see the bullshit contained therein... .. and sure it could take a while for the various bullshit smoke and mirrors, house of cards Rube Goldberg machine aspects of ethereum to come falling down, including their various bullshit lack of abilities for normies to verify how many coins there are and how those pre-mined coins are also ongoingly used for ethereum manipulation purposes... what's coming next?  Unstaking?  Do you believe it? Good for you.  Hopefully you don't get too burned by the nonsense in terms of if they might be able to keep those balls in the air for long enough to you to get out?  Does it matter?  1-2 years?  5 years?  10 years?

 Can they keep it going longer than that?  Maybe your timeline does not matter, but surely there are some folks who believe that bullshit and may well invest into ethereum while considering it to have some kind of a solid (or similar to bitcoin) foundation when it is not even in the ballpark of solid enough (or close to bitcoin in terms of strength of foundation)... but I must admit that so far, that crap has been pretty good at keeping its balls in the air with the various scams tokens built upon other scam tokens that it has been able to facilitate.. and perhaps even some non-scammers might have gotten richie in the process too.. some normies have been able to profit, even though almost everything there has scammy and bullshit token printing or ponzi scheme angles.. so sure there are some strengths in network effects, even when those network effects are built upon the combination of various kinds of vaporware or money printing scams (and there might even be some legitimate projects in there too.. perhaps? perhaps?)

yes... nation states and large institutions can also get involved in scams, ponzi schemes and money printing and sometimes they can facilitate such nonsense in ways that fit quite well with their fiat money printing and deceptive stealing of value from people practices.

I have Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cosmos, Polkadot and other coins in my investment portfolio.

I always try to analyze facts. Ethereum and its L2 solutions are used by many financial companies and government agencies, banks.

As long as Ethereum is decentralized, and as long as this coin is decentralized, it will be in my portfolio. The rules of the game in this ecosystem cannot be quickly changed.

A decentralized coin needs decentralized trading, and this is a big plus for the Ethereum ecosystem. I don't use centralized exchanges. For decentralized bitcoin trading, I need an intermediary.

I do not use bitcoin for payment, the payment takes a very long time. I usually use Tron ecosystem or Polygon with low fees.

I am not against bitcoin, but my forecast for the next 2-4 years is that ethereum will overtake bitcoin in terms of capitalization.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

I have Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cosmos, Polkadot and other coins in my investment portfolio.

Ok

I always try to analyze facts. Ethereum and its L2 solutions are used by many financial companies and government agencies, banks.

Just because Ethereum and the other related projects are used by finance companies, government agencies and banks does not cause it to not be either a scam or a ponzi scheme.

As long as Ethereum is decentralized, and as long as this coin is decentralized, it will be in my portfolio.

By definition proof of stake could not be decentralized... not only the theory of the matter, but also the practice of how the stake is used.  Another aspect is the pre-mine, so you are not even playing in a fair playing field if you do not know the quantity of tokens, but those with tokens are controlling various aspects of the policies regarding rewards of new coins are dished out and payments are confirmed and various other governing aspects of the scam chain.

The rules of the game in this ecosystem cannot be quickly changed.

You sound delusional in terms of buying into the various mumbo jumbo and ongoing changes of the rules that happen in ethereum.. including the various ways that ethereum moved from proof of work to proof of stake.. and you are trying to suggest that those rules were established and or changed in decentralized ways.. what a bunch of baloney..

Yeah, of course, you have hope that your coin will pump.. so proof of pumpamentals remains amongst the most sought after feature for those holding such crap coins.. and also hoping that the rug doesn't get pulled and/or that the floor does not otherwise fall out at any point prior to being able to sell.  Long term holding is another thing... you are praying that you are "in good hands,"  I would imagine.

A decentralized coin needs decentralized trading, and this is a big plus for the Ethereum ecosystem. I don't use centralized exchanges. For decentralized bitcoin trading, I need an intermediary.

I suppose that there might be some interesting ways in which ethereum trading systems are being built.. but they are still reliant upon the base layer.. so it is likely best to consider that if you have anything that is claiming to be decentralized, you need to start from the base layer first.  By definition.. and logically thinking about the matter:  Centralized can be built upon decentralized, but decentralized cannot be built upon centralized... so it is best to think about and consider the solidness of the base first, prior to presuming that any subsequent layer is capable of being decentralized if it is built upon a centralized base.

I do not use bitcoin for payment, the payment takes a very long time. I usually use Tron ecosystem or Polygon with low fees.

Payment of what?   Goods and services?  or moving coins around?  or what?  I have not been buying goods and services with bitcoin very much, either..

I am not against bitcoin, but my forecast for the next 2-4 years is that ethereum will overtake bitcoin in terms of capitalization.

Sure it could, and I see no reason for anyone to diversify in to ethereum, if they are weighing the potential upside that could happen in ethereum.

It seems that the essence of the matter is that bitcoin is the king daddy of investments in the space, so the various shitcoins depend upon bitcoin in order to perform, and they would not be able to survive without bitcoin, so probably it is better to be invested in the king rather than some thing that is dependent upon it..^**   but hey, you can do whatever you like if you believe that adding risk to your investment portfolio has decent odds of paying off better than merely investing in bitcoin. . .. and I am not sure if we got anywhere with any of this discussion, even though surely there are countries like Brazil that are experiencing the same kinds of beliefs as you in terms of their getting involved in various shitcoins and believing that those shitcoins might be able to outperform bitcoin and also hopefully they are considering the various downside risks too..of investing in various kinds of crap products that have quite a few weaknesses including their proof of stake mumbo jumbo that is confusing enough in terms of figuring out how the thing keeps going.. and the system staying afloat based on mumbo jumbo staking confusions regarding points of vulnerability too. and then what's going to happen when there is permission to start to unstake. even though they are trying to control runs on the bank too by the way that they allow unstaking.. a work in progress in terms of one way of preserving the ponzi scheme over the next while trying to maintain a theatre of decentralization and new/ongoing investors (or should we say gullible folks) propping up the house of cards.

**It may well be worth highlighting that the vast majority of shitcoins, including ethereum, are affinity scam in their relationship to bitcoin, so in that regard, they frequently are trying to use the actual solid foundations of bitcoin and to cause people (especially newbs and other unwitting people.. and some of them even relatively smart people) to erroneously believe that they are sufficiently similar to bitcoin in order to be equal to bitcoin or better than bitcoin in one way or another that will cause them to go up in price/value... and the fact of the matter is that they would likely need to be at least 10x better than bitcoin to actually be able to take over the various solid value propositions of bitcoin.. so sure, there are likely some nice little bells and whistles that are provided by various other coins/shitcoins, and even with ethereum, it is possible that ethereum could end up doing some kind of a "flippening" on bitcoin, but that would not cause ethereum to overcome the many weaknesses that it maintains in terms of not really providing anything of value that is different from existing systems.. while causing people to believe that there may be something of value there.

[stompix]

I always try to analyze facts. Ethereum and its L2 solutions are used by many financial companies and government agencies, banks.

Do quote a few of those "many". I'm really curious about them.

As long as Ethereum is decentralized, and as long as this coin is decentralized, it will be in my portfolio.

Ethereum is as decentralized as Ripple right now, if Buterrcup dreams of something tonight the whole thing will change tomorrow without any of you "investors" having even a say in this.

I am not against bitcoin, but my forecast for the next 2-4 years is that ethereum will overtake bitcoin in terms of capitalization.

Always nice to find out who you're really talking to.
These 2-4 years are just like those 3 days to Kiyv? Don't worry I don't expect an answer, I already know your decentralized sponsor is not allowing you to discuss things like that. 

[zasad@]

Do quote a few of those "many". I'm really curious about them.

Have you heard of the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance(EEA)?
https://entethalliance.org/eea-members/

1. https://cointelegraph.com/news/jp-morgan-executes-first-defi-trade-on-public-blockchain
    https://twitter.com/AaveAave/status/1587846905509433344?
2. https://www.analyticsinsight.net/top-10-companies-accepting-ethereum-as-a-payment-method-in-2022/

Ethereum is as decentralized as Ripple right now, if Buterrcup dreams of something tonight the whole thing will change tomorrow without any of you "investors" having even a say in this.

https://xrpscan.com/validators
https://pro.nansen.ai/eth2-deposit-contract

111 VS  548 000
Why should I explain complex things to you if you don't understand simple things?
I can become an ethereum validator very easily. Try to become a Ripple validator.

Always nice to find out who you're really talking to.
These 2-4 years are just like those 3 days to Kiyv? Don't worry I don't expect an answer, I already know your decentralized sponsor is not allowing you to discuss things like that. 

“The first casualty of war is the truth” (C) Do you really like to joke about how 2 brotherly peoples kill each other?

[stompix]

1. https://cointelegraph.com/news/jp-morgan-executes-first-defi-trade-on-public-blockchain

The MAS chief fintech officer said the successful test

A test is not actively using something!

2. https://www.analyticsinsight.net/top-10-companies-accepting-ethereum-as-a-payment-method-in-2022/

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL:

Gucci Among several cryptocurrencies, Gucci became the first luxury brand to accept cryptocurrencies as payments. Bitcoin and Ethereum
Balenciaga Shoppers can make crypto payments in Bitcoin and Ethereum
Chipotle Not just Ethereum, Chipotle is about to accept a total of 98 cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin and USD-backed stablecoins
Tag Heuer The company provides multiple crypto payment options, including Bitcoin, Dogecoin

Again, probably it's too hard for you to understand simple things so let me be as clear as possible:

What 1) Financial companies 2) Government agencies 3) Banks are using Ethereum for daily activities and are not just conducting tests, accepting payments in Ethereum and one hundred other currencies or just playing around with projects?
You said there are many using it and yet you failed to show me one example of one actually using Ethereum!

“The first casualty of war is the truth” (C)

Exactly, and truth was a casualty when you accepted the orders from your sponsors to not talk about things, funny how people preaching decentralization will simpy shut down and throw away their freedom for a bunch of $. No surprise you're and ETH fan, you love to have someone ordering you around how they see fit!

[zasad@]

What 1) Financial companies 2) Government agencies 3) Banks are using Ethereum for daily activities and are not just conducting tests, accepting payments in Ethereum and one hundred other currencies or just playing around with projects?
You said there are many using it and yet you failed to show me one example of one actually using Ethereum!

I will name 1 company about which I wrote in April 2020. It still works and uses the Ethereum blockchain to tokenize assets and payments.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5185915.msg54164595#msg54164595

The site of the company
https://realt.co/
Do you really think that JP Morgan Chase Bank and the other 100 companies on the EEA list are clowns?

Exactly, and truth was a casualty when you accepted the orders from your sponsors to not talk about things, funny how people preaching decentralization will simpy shut down and throw away their freedom for a bunch of $. No surprise you're and ETH fan, you love to have someone ordering you around how they see fit!

Now answer my questions: What sponsors are you talking about and where is the money that sponsors pay me?

I’m already tired of repeating that Ethereum coins are now decentralized, and any protocol change is made at least a few months after testing. It is impossible to make changes to this protocol in a few days. As soon as I feel danger, I will sell my ethereum coins.

_____
JayJuanGee, I'm tired of quoting, so I'll answer briefly.

I don't have favorite coins, I understand that I'm investing with a high risk. But I invest earned coins. It is important. Therefore, I do not store all investments in one coin.

The POS algorithm is not decentralized, but compared to other coins, Ethereum has the best conditions. You will not be able to create your own node on Polkadot, Kosmos and other similar ecosystems, because you need a lot of money.
The Ethereum algorithm is very complex, it uses validators and attesters, and it is impossible to use a 51% attack there.
The transition to the POS algorithm in Ethereum was planned in the project roadmap at the very beginning. This ecosystem is very complex and you need to study the smart contracts of projects in order not to lose your coins.

I pay for VPN, but for this I can use Monero. For other purchases, stablecoins are enough for me.

[stompix]

I will name 1 company about which I wrote in April 2020. It still works and uses the Ethereum blockchain to tokenize assets and payments.
The site of the company
https://realt.co/

A company with a shitty token that has 10 houses for rent since 2020 after burning 10 million of "investor" money in an ICO is your example of global adoption? Cooomon at this point is not even funny anymore, it's a cringe-fest!

Do you really think that JP Morgan Chase Bank and the other 100 companies on the EEA list are clowns?

Again, seems like you're not capable of understanding basic words.
Is JP Morgan using Ethereum for their business or have they conducted a test and that's it?
Anyhow, good luck with your shitcoin portfolio, after all, I just realized it makes no sense for me to talk sense into you, what's the point and who the hell am I trying to save from losing his money in shitcoins.

I’m already tired of repeating that Ethereum coins are now decentralized, and any protocol change is made at least a few months after testing. It is impossible to make changes to this protocol in a few days.

Impossible because? Oh forget it, as I said, no point concerning when it's just obvious, as JJJ said, if you believe and bullshit pie in the sky thing, probably it's better for us to let you taste it on your own.

[zasad@]

A company with a shitty token that has 10 houses for rent since 2020 after burning 10 million of "investor" money in an ICO is your example of global adoption? Cooomon at this point is not even funny anymore, it's a cringe-fest!

Why don't you like this company?
The company has been in business for almost 2 years. What examples do you want from me, if in many countries there is no full-fledged legislation?

I will write how this project will work
https://tokenist.com/russias-sberbank-plans-to-launch-defi-platform-by-may-2023/

Again, seems like you're not capable of understanding basic words.

Well, you think me stupid despite the fact that I took my investments and my investment portfolio consists of earned coins.
I have a few questions for you.
I bought a bitcoin at a price of $20,000, when should I sell it and how do I do it?
Should I use centralized services where my bitcoin can be blocked?
Should I use private money changers who can give my data to bandits?
Or should I not sell bitcoin and explain to my kids that they should never sell it either?

[JayJuanGee]

JayJuanGee, I'm tired of quoting, so I'll answer briefly.

I don't have favorite coins, I understand that I'm investing with a high risk. But I invest earned coins. It is important. Therefore, I do not store all investments in one coin.

Anyone who believes that diversifying within various kinds of shitcoins serves as any kind of significant and/or meaningful diversification is likely fooling themselves, and within the "crypto" or digital assets area bitcoin is clearly and unambigously the leader and all other coins/projects follow it, whether they are any good or not.  I already mentioned that in my last post...

The general idea of diversification is to attempt to invest into various kinds of asset classes that are not necessarily directly correlated, and surely that becomes more and more difficult to do when we have the dollar fucking up a lot of various kinds of asset classes in terms of the ways that it seems to pervert and/or convolute incentives through the use of debt.

Now once you might figure out how much you might want to invest into any industry or area, then surely subsets within the industry would still be related to the leader. and there could be some potential that the subsets might outperform the leader, even if they are considerably correlated to what the leader does.. and so in some sense, if you add other investments onto investing into the leader, you are largely just adding additional levels of risk.

Surely, you are likely perverted in your own thinking to wrongly believe that Ethereum and some of the various shitcoins are constituting their own sector or their own value proposition to be offering something that bitcoin does not offer.. so sure, go ahead and believe that bullshit all that you like.. and hopefully, neither you nor other gullible people are putting too much value into that nonsense that you seem to ongoingly believe (or want to believe).

The POS algorithm is not decentralized, but compared to other coins, Ethereum has the best conditions. You will not be able to create your own node on Polkadot, Kosmos and other similar ecosystems, because you need a lot of money.

Sure maybe ethereum is the best of the shitcoins, and it has the greatest network effects.. but still I have my doubts if that should be any kind of solid or meaningful investment thesis on an individual levels, and surely there are some governments that seem to be fooled and/or lured into such conceptual frameworks too.. and it seems that part of the lure of many governments and/or financial institutions is to want to be able to continue with their various bullshit smoke and mirror narratives, and they would likely be way better able to do that on ethereum or some related shitcoin or some fancy Rube Goldberg combination of shitcoins as compared to actually giving up their ability to directly control with an actual objective standard like bitcoin, so I do see and can appreciate why various scams, scammers, government institutions and even financial institutions will be lured towards some other bullshit making shit up projects that they may believe that they can keep floating in the air rather than tethering themselves to a more solid objective truth (like bitcoin) that they cannot really control or play games with.

The Ethereum algorithm is very complex, it uses validators and attesters, and it is impossible to use a 51% attack there.

Yes.. of course, it is complex.. and likely made complex on purpose..

Ponzi schemes tend to be made like that.  Did you notice how complex the various business relations with FTX were?  And some of the complex products that they offered prior to all of it coming crashing down?

And, don't get so cock-sure confident that the bullshit house of cards of Ethereum cannot come crashing down merely because you seem to be blindly believe that it is robust in its various ways of distributing power.. but you do not know who the fuck owns the various power entities and you have no fucking clue how many coins the preminers still hold... likely ongoingly more than a majority and likely ongoingly that they can print more if they run out because you have no way to verify the extent to which they claim to be telling you that they are being honest in their various ways of convoluting matters through fantasy descriptions regarding what is supposedly happening to confirm transactions, validate the chain, change the code, change the rules, blah blah blah.

Of course, you likely have heard that ethereum has proof of Vitalik.. and surely you do not believe that ETH is governed by proof of Vitalik so you like to believe whatever that you like in regards to complexity that convolutes what is actually happening and surprisingly keeps people believing.. and yeah they can control supplies too... you know why?  Because you have no fucking clue regarding how many coins they have.

The transition to the POS algorithm in Ethereum was planned in the project roadmap at the very beginning.

Yes.. I was around when they first spouting out that bullshit.. so yes, I have seen those various iterations regarding proof of work being right around the corner.. for every several months for the 7 years or longer that they finally were able to carry out the theater of actually doing it.. but of course, in the mean time there was build up to lock up coins and engage in more theatrics with the beacon chain in the more than year before actually transitioning... yes there are seemingly smart people and dumb people that believe that ongoing increasingly convoluted theatrics.

This ecosystem is very complex

Yes.. you already said that.. and it is known to be complex and likely purposefully so in several ways..

and you need to study the smart contracts of projects in order not to lose your coins.

yes.. you can waste your time, energy and money to study that bullshit all that you like.. That's your choice.

I pay for VPN, but for this I can use Monero. For other purchases, stablecoins are enough for me.

Sure, on an individual level it is good to attempt to have various tools that are available to you... and be careful if you believe that it is good to store your value on a tool that you perceive to be helpful in terms of some use cases that you perceive that it might have.

I bought a bitcoin at a price of $20,000, when should I sell it and how do I do it?

Bitcoin can surely be used as a long term investment, so you should not feel rushed to sell it or trade it, just build it up.. 4-10 years or longer.. perhaps when you get to fuck you status or near fuck you status then you start to get into selling stages.. .. yet in the mean time the first stage is to just accumulate, then later to maintain and then later to liquidate.

Each region is going to have differing options regarding avenues to buy and sell BTC, and BTC still is pretty liquid.. even though surely there are regional variations in terms of how many liquidation options that you might have and/or reporting requirements.. so you have to figure out some of those in accordance with your own options.

your suggestion that you don't know how to sell BTC seems to be somewhat disingenuine.. especially if you had been able to buy BTC then you should be able to sell it thorugh the same avenue that you bought it, unless that avenue is no longer available.. but in the end, there should be several avenues available to sell BTC, if you were to so choose to do it.. and again, I do not know your particulars in terms of possible geographical limitations that might be confronting you.

Should I use centralized services where my bitcoin can be blocked?

Through my more than 9 years in bitcoin, I have engaged in both centralized services and also peer to peer, and of course, the better practice is not to hold too much value with third parties, but of course, you may well want to have some third party avenues available to you... so you may well want to keep accounts open with third parties that you use on a regular basis, and of course, the best is if there were more of a circular economy in bitcoin, and that does not exist very well in too many jurisdictions.. so we are still seeing more and more tools being built out to make bitcoin easier to use, but even that does not seem to be a straight avenue upwards because sometimes merchants will start to accept bitcoin but then later down the road discontinue accepting it.. and of course, there are attempts to broaden lightning network for those kinds of peer to peer transaction options.

Should I use private money changers who can give my data to bandits?

You could weigh that option if it is available to you... though of course, you are framing that as a negative.

Or should I not sell bitcoin and explain to my kids that they should never sell it either?

Of course you are being disingenuine with this line of discussion, since inheritance is one of the options, including that there could be ways to lock up bitcoin in various ways or there could be ways that the bitcoin is passed on directly, and surely if you pass the bitcoin on directly and you are dead, then you likely should know bitcoin well enough to know that whoever has the keys can control the bitcoin and figure out what they want to do with it including whether or not to follow great grand daddy zasad's directives from the grave.

[zasad@]

JayJuanGee, we have different opinions.
I am an investor and I have a plan before investing, like buying at $20,000, selling 50% at $40,000 and taking my money. Further, my bitcoins are free. Perhaps I will keep 10-25% of the remaining coins, and I will sell the rest of the coins in the price range of 50-80 thousand dollars, if such prices exist.
But I have to consider the risks.
I don't like the concentration of mining in the USA. If companies move to America, then 50-60% of bitcoin mining will be in the US by the end of this year.
I love to trade on platforms: Uniswap and 1inch and I don't use centralized services. (Only in rare exceptions)

__
What do you believe more in the next 2 years?
At $200,000 Bitcoin price or $55-60 Polkadot price. I believe in Polkadot more so I take risks. But I am not calling anyone to this.

[JayJuanGee]

JayJuanGee, we have different opinions.
I am an investor and I have a plan before investing, like buying at $20,000, selling 50% at $40,000 and taking my money. Further, my bitcoins are free. Perhaps I will keep 10-25% of the remaining coins, and I will sell the rest of the coins in the price range of 50-80 thousand dollars, if such prices exist.

Sure.. definitions of what is a trader and what is an investor can surely differ, including that you have parameters for your "trade" that are considerably already established, so it seems more difficult to self-describe yourself as an investor if you parameters are seeming pretty strict.. but at the same time, it could take a long time for the parameters to end up playing out, so likely then you may well need to reconsider some of your current parameters (and nothing wrong with that, either).

But I have to consider the risks.

Well every investment or trade should attempt to employ some elements of risk management that have to do with both what we invest into and how much we invest (our allocation size in each of the investments).

For example, it could be a bit dangerous for any investor to ONLY have a few investments, such as ONLY bitcoin and dollars.. but then, if someone is a new investor (in his/her early 20s for example) then it is possible that the person might start out with ONLY one investment, and then build up the size of the investment portfolio to some threshold amount (whether that is $10k, $20k, $50k or some other amount), adn then start to diversify into other asset classes after the portfolio gets close to or surpasses the threshold target.

I don't like the concentration of mining in the USA. If companies move to America, then 50-60% of bitcoin mining will be in the US by the end of this year.

It could be a potential issue.  I am not sure.  Bitcoin mining seems to be pretty diversified relative to where it had been over the years, and for sure it would be problematic if BTC mining were to become overly concentrated in one jurisdiction or another... yet I am not sure if the concentration is building as great (and problematic) as you are speculating it to be.. The mining incentive mechanisms in bitcoin seem to be pretty strong, even if there were some possible attack vectors that were to develop.. but sure, if there seems to be issues, then there also might be some relocating of hashpower or even the production of mining gear or even the cost of electricity could cause mining to move outside of the USA.. It's not like the USA has the cheapest power in the world, is it?  And it is not even as if the USA is the most friendly to miners, either.. so why the fuck are the going to want to set up in the USA or stay in the USA if some of the regulation matters are not seeming to be overly-friendly?

I love to trade on platforms: Uniswap and 1inch and I don't use centralized services. (Only in rare exceptions)

Good for you.  So if you are suggesting that trading is going to continue to take place through those systems, then that means what?  buy ethereum?  Don't buy bitcoin?  I already mentioned that the mere fact that supposed decentralized development might be getting built on ethereum and through ethereum systems does not all of a sudden cause those systems to NOT be subjected to the underlying lack of a strong foundation.. Don't be fucking around and avoiding the question by presuming that decentralized systems can actually have any kind of resilience if they are built on centralized systems and you keep avoiding the question regarding the fucked up nature of ethereum's foundation.. which has to do with pre-mine and even lack of an ability for anyone to verify how many coins ever existed and then how many are being produced currently.. so if you cannot trace every coin, then there are issues regarding how many there are... and if they are still being unfairly distributed... How is Ethereum going to overcome their ongoing corruption and ongoing obfuscation?  You seem to keep sidestepping the gorilla in the room, don't you zasad?

[zasad@]

Good for you.  So if you are suggesting that trading is going to continue to take place through those systems, then that means what?  buy ethereum?  Don't buy bitcoin?  I already mentioned that the mere fact that supposed decentralized development might be getting built on ethereum and through ethereum systems does not all of a sudden cause those systems to NOT be subjected to the underlying lack of a strong foundation.. Don't be fucking around and avoiding the question by presuming that decentralized systems can actually have any kind of resilience if they are built on centralized systems and you keep avoiding the question regarding the fucked up nature of ethereum's foundation.. which has to do with pre-mine and even lack of an ability for anyone to verify how many coins ever existed and then how many are being produced currently.. so if you cannot trace every coin, then there are issues regarding how many there are... and if they are still being unfairly distributed... How is Ethereum going to overcome their ongoing corruption and ongoing obfuscation?  You seem to keep sidestepping the gorilla in the room, don't you zasad?

Why buy any coin if you don't know when to sell it? I am satisfied with the ethereum ecosystem, I am satisfied with its current decentralization and I use this ecosystem. I do not give financial advice.
I already talked about my conspiracy theory that the distribution of bitcoin was dishonest. If you look from one side, then everything is fair, but if, on the other hand, at the scheme of pumps and dumps and the purchase of bitcoin by manipulators at the very beginning, you can find many suspicious facts. I believe that the Mt.GOX hack and the loss of 850,000 bitcoins were not accidental , because so many coins on the market prevented the manipulators from doing their shenanigans.

But another thing that worries me is that people choose bitcoins and store them on centralized exchanges. But most of them are not traders. We see balances of crypto exchange wallets, and these are coins of hodlers who are too lazy to use decentralized wallets.
 I believe that I have less risk because I do not use centralized exchanges.

Ethereum has great stats
https://ultrasound.money/
But if you consider this coin to be a useless shitcoin, then why do you need to study a lot of unnecessary information.

[JayJuanGee]

Good for you.  So if you are suggesting that trading is going to continue to take place through those systems, then that means what?  buy ethereum?  Don't buy bitcoin?  I already mentioned that the mere fact that supposed decentralized development might be getting built on ethereum and through ethereum systems does not all of a sudden cause those systems to NOT be subjected to the underlying lack of a strong foundation.. Don't be fucking around and avoiding the question by presuming that decentralized systems can actually have any kind of resilience if they are built on centralized systems and you keep avoiding the question regarding the fucked up nature of ethereum's foundation.. which has to do with pre-mine and even lack of an ability for anyone to verify how many coins ever existed and then how many are being produced currently.. so if you cannot trace every coin, then there are issues regarding how many there are... and if they are still being unfairly distributed... How is Ethereum going to overcome their ongoing corruption and ongoing obfuscation?  You seem to keep sidestepping the gorilla in the room, don't you zasad?

Why buy any coin if you don't know when to sell it?

You seem to be changing my words (ideas) a wee bit, because any planning to engage in long term investing does not preclude anyone from selling a coin at any time that s/he wants, even if at the time that s/he enters into the investment, the timeline might be long term, such as 10 years or more.. .. and surely I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that any of us should be locking into "generation transferring" wealth which seems to be the kinds of frameworks that Michael Saylor wants to emphasize when he is suggesting that there may well NOT be any need to ever sell your bitcoin because if you are accumulating the bitcoin and holding onto them as a form of long-term attempt to gain and transfer wealth into later times, then the wealth is not built by selling the asset and getting back into dollars or back into some other inferior product, but instead the idea is to hang onto the most pristine of the asset classes because that asset is going to still generate value and you do not have to sell it in order to realize wealth effects from its ongoing (and perhaps forever) appreciation in value.  

On a personal level, I believe that I am not treating my bitcoin accumulation in the same frame as Saylor - even though surely there is likely some of those similar values within the way that I had been thinking about my bitcoin.. and even my own conceptual frameworks had moved more and more into that Saylor framing kind of direction.. after a few years into bitcoin, I had started to think that even if I sell bitcoin on the way up, I am incrementally selling it and not fucking around with selling all of it or even expecting that I am going to be able to buy back cheaper.. so when I sell on the way up, I am just attempting to derisk my investment portfolio from having too much value contained in one asset class (that is presuming that BTC value goes up faster and more than other assets in the investment portfolio).

In late 2013, when I first got into bitcoin, I was so uncomfortable with it as one of my investments that I established a 6 month budget to add it, but I was not really comprehensive in my thinking about bitcoin.  I merely thought about it as a kind of experiment that I would invest for 6 month and then attempt to hold at least one year (because more than 1 year gives long term versus short-term capital gains tax preferences) but preferably at least 2 years, and I was not really willing to commit longer that that in terms of my investing and timeline goal because I had thought that I would study the asset along the way and that I would learn about it in order that when the time came to make further decisions about bitcoin, then I would hopefully become more and more educated about it with the passage of time.

The mere fact that I had created a preference for a 2 year plus goal in terms of holding bitcoin in late 2013 did not lock me into having to hold bitcoin for at least 2 years until late 2015.. The fact of the matter is that I could do whatever the fuck I wanted to do because I was managing my own holdings.  I am not being directed or guided by anyone else.  There were no restrictions upon my funds except for the extent to which I wanted my initial guidelines to restrict me, but if along the way, I felt that I had made some mistakes an that my mind had changed, my risk tolerance had changed, my finances had changed, or anything that I considered to be relevant to my reasons for investing into bitcoin and continuing to hold bitcoin had changed, then I had the ability to change based on the changes in the information that I had at my disposal.. even though surely I was not (and continue to not be) any kind of wishy washy kind of a person.. .. even though I understand that sometimes there can be decently hard changes in the information available and the on the ground personal facts that would justify making those kinds of changes in terms of any kind of investment approach...

And we all know the personal financial and psychological factors that should be motivating our allocations into bitcoin or into any other investment right?  

Let me just restate them, so that we are on the same page.  

When any of us invest into bitcoin (or any other investment), at minimum we should be attempting to consider our cashflow, how much bitcoin we have already accumulated, our other investments, our view of bitcoin as compared with other investments, timeline, risk tolerance, and our time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets) and our abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time to consider trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or financial instruments.

It can take a long time to figure out each of the above outlined subcategories within those individual psychological/financial considerations, yet no one has to figure them all out at one time before getting started investing in bitcoin.. and accordingly any person could start by investing relatively small amounts or investing some amount that s/he believes to be reasonable and prudent - and continue to study his/her own circumstances along the way, and perhaps tweak his/her investing strategy from time to time along the way, as s/he is learning.

I am satisfied with the ethereum ecosystem, I am satisfied with its current decentralization and I use this ecosystem.

Of course if you are personally using the system and you are involved in the "ecosystem" then you should be more aware about what you perceive the various tradeoffs to be.

I do not give financial advice.

Giving opinions, or even my suggestion that ethereum is a BIG ASS scam waiting to rug pull is not financial advice.  Do whatever the fuck you like with that crap, even though you should be making sure that you have bitcoin... but whatever, you can do what you like.

I frequently tell people to get the fuck off zero and buy some bitcoin, and I also say to avoid shitcoins including ethereum and the other various shitcoins, and at the same time, I am not responsible for anything that anyone does.. I don't always say that I am not responsible and I am not giving advice, but it should be understood, that each person is responsible for his/her own choices.. and surely we have seen a lot of scams in the "crypto" space.. but at the same time, some of those scams might be self contained or they might not necessarily implicate some other system... so there are a lot of things going on in regards to bitcoin and also in regards to a variety of products that are built on bitcoin and also a variety of products that might not exactly be built on bitcoin but may well be argued to be associated with bitcoin because bitcoin might be involved in terms of on ramps, off ramps or even collateral or even various kinds of affinity associations (also known as affinity scams.. there are a lot of products that would not be shit - except that they are able to suck off the teat of bitcoin, which includes that scam project ethereum that you seem to love so much and are saying that you are involved in a variety of ways in it.. and yeah you are not the ONLY person who is involved in that shit in a variety of ways.. and so it likely will not go away very quickly, even if more rugs will get pulled along the way and you have to learn more and more angles of the various rube goldberg machines that seem to surround it.. a kind of "quasi-decentralized" rube goldberg machine, no?).

I already talked about my conspiracy theory that the distribution of bitcoin was dishonest.

 You did?  I am not sure if I saw that discussion, and if I saw it, I don't remember anything specific about that.

If you look from one side, then everything is fair, but if, on the other hand, at the scheme of pumps and dumps and the purchase of bitcoin by manipulators at the very beginning, you can find many suspicious facts.

That sounds like a strange argument to me.. like a whiner no coiner argument or someone saying that bitcoin is not fair because others got in earlier.. and a bunch of bullshit really... but hey, if you have some links to some better fleshed out arguments (or posts that you made), I will look at that... even if currently I am a bit skeptical that such arguments are coming off as having any strong basis.. besides merely wanting to whine and complain about not being there earlier.. and surely there is likely not going to be any system of any completely fair or perfect launch.. and in some sense bitcoin has had plenty of UPs and DOWNs along the way so that those folks with status quo richness still do have opportunities to get into bitcoin, but they are too busy complaining that some of the earlier adopters are going to be unjustly enriched blah blah blah.. whine whine whine...

I believe that the Mt.GOX hack and the loss of 850,000 bitcoins were not accidental , because so many coins on the market prevented the manipulators from doing their shenanigans.

 I am not sure about what you are talking about?

I do recall that something like 850k btc were lost and perhaps a bit over 200k btc were recovered.. and so you are wanting to suggest something about the 650k coins that are still missing?

yeah, we likely realize that the fucktwat Jeb McCaleb had transferred MTGOX over to Karpeles, and McCaleb likely had back doors into it and was part of the earlier hacks.. but in the whole scheme of things, what is the problem that you are suggesting?  There are some people who are holding BTC (such as McCaleb) and some other nepharious actors that do not deserve them?  Yeah.. some of those folks got into shitcoins (like Ripple) too.. so what?  There are all kinds of various injustices in the world, and so where is the evidence to prosecute?  We are going to just throw our hands up and say what?  Go with even a bigger scam (called ethereum)..

I would suggest that bitcoin remains the best of the situations in regards to distribution, so it remains problematic if you want the perfect to be the enemy of the good.. so in other words, bitcoin is the best that we have so far, and if there is some other more fair way to distribute, then go ahead and try it.. your fart-powered piece of social justice warrior virtual signaling shit that is also known as supposedly environmentally-friendly nonsense ethereum is surely no where even close to as fair of a distribution as bitcoin.,,, so merely because you and some other shitcoiners fail/refuse to invest into bitcoin because you are searching for bitcoin 2.0 does not get us away from bitcoin being the best to date in terms of distribution, fairness and ongoing fairness to get some while you can just in case it catches on.

But another thing that worries me is that people choose bitcoins and store them on centralized exchanges.

 So?  People have a choice.  The mere fact that a lot of people trust exchanges hardly means diddly squat, except for quite a few of those folks learned lessons this year including those who had coins tied up in Terra/Luna, 3AC, Voyager, Blockfi, Celsius, FTX, Genesis (Gemini earn), and perhaps a few others.  Yes.. some of them got burnt and yes some of them may well choose to improve their abilities to directly hold their coins... and yeah holding 80% or 90% of your coins privately is way better than having 100% custodied with various 3rd parties.. so it may well not be an "all or nothing" solution because quite likely custodians will likely continue to be part of status quo systems that may well need to be transitioned from rather than acting as if we can completely move to a world without any role for custodians.. NOT going to happen so quickly, especially when we still likely have less than 1% of the world's population holding decent amounts of bitcoin and even the holders of bitcoin likely are low coiners  (even though hoarders like Saylor and some other exist too..,. and by the way, I am not disparaging hoarders.. because every single person or institution has the right to attempt to accumulate as many BTC as s/he likes. and to figure out how to make sure that they are able to hang onto their coins for the time period of their investment whether short-term or long-term is also their choice)

But most of them are not traders.

So what?

We see balances of crypto exchange wallets, and these are coins of hodlers who are too lazy to use decentralized wallets.

Decentralized wallet?  What the fuck is that?  You talking about some kind of an ethereum based buillshit smoke and mirrors thing?

Surely, bitcoin has wallets in which people can self-custody their coins.. and there are various kinds of wallets and some are more user-friendly than others, but no matter the system, there remains some scariness in being your own bank.. for sure... and some folks might have a system that they have in place, but then some things might change in which they might come to question the security of the ways in which they are holding their coins.

I believe that I have less risk because I do not use centralized exchanges.

Good for you.  I am afraid to ask.. and maybe I don't need to know...especially if you are talking about holding various shitcoins.  I could give less than two shits about the various shitcoins you are holding and that you believe are going to continue to have value when they are likely based on various rube goldberg fantasy land gobbledy gook that has to continue to stay afloat in order for your crap to continue to have value.. seems to me... and sure, not ONLY you are deluded into such nonsense thinking but it seems like institutions and governments (like Brazil - to attempt to relate this discussion back to the topic at hand) are lured into the same kinds of crap thinking in which they think that those various shitcoins are similar to bitcoin in terms of their security.. and not even appreciating the foundational value of proof of work... have you heard of proof of work?  Proof of work is the foundation of what bitcoin brought to the table with the 2008/2009 invention/discovery of a paradigm-shifting technology that had not previously existed in terms of solving the Byzantine general's problem.. and no other system (talking about various shitcoins) even comes close in terms of making sure that they are not diluting the various supply and verifying their supply (which remains a topic that you keep side-stepping and avoiding zasad.. go figure?)...

Ethereum has great stats
https://ultrasound.money/

 You really believe that nonsense made up talking point.  You are deluded.

Ethereum is not ultra sound money

it cannot be ultra sound money if you cannot even verify the actual supply so who gives any ratts' asses if they are supposedly burning or reducing the supposed supply of ethereum if you have no fucking idea or clue in regards to how many of that crap token exists in the first place, you are unable to verify the supply contemporaneously and you are unable to verify if more coins get subsequently put into circulation..

So that is a bunch of baloney if you believe those dumb terms that the ethereum marketers are throwing out in to the space in order to keep you and the other dumbtwat 14-year old snot-noses believing that ethereum is even close to comparable to bitcoin.

But if you consider this coin to be a useless shitcoin, then why do you need to study a lot of unnecessary information.

Who said that I am studying that crap?  

If anyone is into bitcoin, it is nearly unavoidable that ethereum bullshit is going to come into the picture over and over and over again.. Trying to avoid ethereum, its various nonsense talking points, and the various related smoke and mirror related projects remains quite ongoingly difficult, and like I mentioned already, ethereum is an affinity scam.. do you even know what an "affinity scam" is?  I already explained it, and for some reason you seem to continue to believe that ethereum is some kind of an "improvement" over bitcoin when it is not even close to an improvement.. because it is so busy sucking off of the bitcoin teats while trying to act like it is not.. and leading a bunch of dumbtwats, including you, into seeming to ongoingly believe that it is actually providing something of value beyond an ongoing convoluted Ponzi schemes that has a lot of gullibles to continue to feed upon.. including dumbass governments, government officials, institutions and status quo rich folks (maybe tied to banks and status quo finanical institutions) who ongoingly buy into several of the ethereum pie in the sky unicorn-farting talking-point nonsense.. ..

[zasad@]

JayJuanGee
You won, I don't have the strength to quote so much text It's too bad that stompix left our conversation.

If you look at the first 13 points, you will see links to the websites of major global companies that use the Ethereum blockchain to issue stablecoins.
https://www.coingecko.com/en/categories/stablecoins

I also consider bitcoin a reliable asset, but without stablecoins, the entire crypto market will be dead.

[Sayeds56]

I also consider bitcoin a reliable asset, but without stablecoins, the entire crypto market will be dead.

It is true that stable coins are crucial component of crypto market & play an important role, but it is inaccurate to say that entire crypto market will be dead without stable coins. Bitcoin can still function without stable coins as a store of value and means of exchange. In fact, stable coins are relatively recent addition to crypto ecosystem, and the market existed and thrived without them for years.

[HinaSiddique]

https://portaldobitcoin.uol.com.br/lei-das-criptomoedas-e-aprovada-pela-camara-dos-deputados-e-vai-para-sancao-de-bolsonaro/
"The Chamber of Deputies approved, after seven years of debate, earlier this Tuesday evening (29) Bill (PL) 4,041/2021, which regulates the cryptocurrency market in Brazil. The text has been approved, dehydrated from the most controversial points and will now be sanctioned by the President of the Republic, Jair Bolsonaro."

Being the fifth country in the world in terms of cryptocurrency trading , it is a positive step forward.
However , its a complicated procedure to carry out.

If sanctioned by the President, like with any other new piece of legislation the country will start to see the benefits of it in the long term.

[zasad@]

I also consider bitcoin a reliable asset, but without stablecoins, the entire crypto market will be dead.

It is true that stable coins are crucial component of crypto market & play an important role, but it is inaccurate to say that entire crypto market will be dead without stable coins. Bitcoin can still function without stable coins as a store of value and means of exchange. In fact, stable coins are relatively recent addition to crypto ecosystem, and the market existed and thrived without them for years.

USDT appeared at the end of 2015. Before that, I traded on crypto exchanges. It was a very good time, there were no regulations and blocking, there was no know your client procedure, but there was a problem when exchanging for fiat, because the price of the cryptocurrency was changing. After the introduction of stablecoins, it became much more convenient.

[JayJuanGee]

I also consider bitcoin a reliable asset, but without stablecoins, the entire crypto market will be dead.

It is true that stable coins are crucial component of crypto market & play an important role, but it is inaccurate to say that entire crypto market will be dead without stable coins. Bitcoin can still function without stable coins as a store of value and means of exchange. In fact, stable coins are relatively recent addition to crypto ecosystem, and the market existed and thrived without them for years.

USDT appeared at the end of 2015. Before that, I traded on crypto exchanges. It was a very good time, there were no regulations and blocking, there was no know your client procedure, but there was a problem when exchanging for fiat, because the price of the cryptocurrency was changing. After the introduction of stablecoins, it became much more convenient.

If you are trying to justify an investment case for ethereum, other related shitcoins and/or stable coins based on the tail rather than the dog, then you are likely going to come to erroneous conclusions in regards to whether the dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog. 

I am not suggesting that you cannot make money on ethereum, other related shitcoins and/or stable coins, and surely they are lacking in a lot of the resiliency qualities that bitcoin has - and surely, it is possible that some of that crap might be able to partner with governments (maybe in this case Brazil is going down the shitcoin (rather than bitcoin) road) and financial institutions and continue in the various ways that traditional institutions have been scamming normies.. including a lot of the weaknesses of unsound scammy debt practices - and in the whole scheme of things, I will stand by my point that bitcoin is the dog (not the tail), bitcoin is the innovation.. (and stable coins that are built upon or through bitcoin are more likely to have soundness in their value), and surely you may well end up getting wrecked when you are losing focus upon where the value is at - even if the convoluted bullshit that surrounds ethereum and other scams could well last for as much time as you need (20 to 50 years.. even if you have no way of knowing when the rug is going to get pulled or the card house of those scams is going to fall) in order for you to do sufficiently well financially from them.. in spite of the various uncertainties, centralization issues and their lack of resiliencies, as compared (contrasted to) the ways that bitcoin is designed.. and surely any coins or projects that attempt to link themselves to bitcoin or to peg upon bitcoin, or collateralize with bitcoin are likely going to do better (and more sound investments) as compared with various convoluted shitcoin projects that are built upon the top of the ethereum (affinity scam) smoke and mirror house of cards.

[zasad@]

I also consider bitcoin a reliable asset, but without stablecoins, the entire crypto market will be dead.

It is true that stable coins are crucial component of crypto market & play an important role, but it is inaccurate to say that entire crypto market will be dead without stable coins. Bitcoin can still function without stable coins as a store of value and means of exchange. In fact, stable coins are relatively recent addition to crypto ecosystem, and the market existed and thrived without them for years.

USDT appeared at the end of 2015. Before that, I traded on crypto exchanges. It was a very good time, there were no regulations and blocking, there was no know your client procedure, but there was a problem when exchanging for fiat, because the price of the cryptocurrency was changing. After the introduction of stablecoins, it became much more convenient.

If you are trying to justify an investment case for ethereum, other related shitcoins and/or stable coins based on the tail rather than the dog, then you are likely going to come to erroneous conclusions in regards to whether the dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog. 

I am not suggesting that you cannot make money on ethereum, other related shitcoins and/or stable coins, and surely they are lacking in a lot of the resiliency qualities that bitcoin has - and surely, it is possible that some of that crap might be able to partner with governments (maybe in this case Brazil is going down the shitcoin (rather than bitcoin) road) and financial institutions and continue in the various ways that traditional institutions have been scamming normies.. including a lot of the weaknesses of unsound scammy debt practices - and in the whole scheme of things, I will stand by my point that bitcoin is the dog (not the tail), bitcoin is the innovation.. (and stable coins that are built upon or through bitcoin are more likely to have soundness in their value), and surely you may well end up getting wrecked when you are losing focus upon where the value is at - even if the convoluted bullshit that surrounds ethereum and other scams could well last for as much time as you need (20 to 50 years.. even if you have no way of knowing when the rug is going to get pulled or the card house of those scams is going to fall) in order for you to do sufficiently well financially from them.. in spite of the various uncertainties, centralization issues and their lack of resiliencies, as compared (contrasted to) the ways that bitcoin is designed.. and surely any coins or projects that attempt to link themselves to bitcoin or to peg upon bitcoin, or collateralize with bitcoin are likely going to do better (and more sound investments) as compared with various convoluted shitcoin projects that are built upon the top of the ethereum (affinity scam) smoke and mirror house of cards.

I have bitcoin, but I invest in other coins as well, so I have to take risks. In my case, I risk only a part of the money already earned. My risk management does not allow me to keep all investments in bitcoin only. Bitcoin is a dog, not a tail, but there is always a risk that the masters of the world's finances will want to kill the dog.

[JayJuanGee]

I also consider bitcoin a reliable asset, but without stablecoins, the entire crypto market will be dead.

It is true that stable coins are crucial component of crypto market & play an important role, but it is inaccurate to say that entire crypto market will be dead without stable coins. Bitcoin can still function without stable coins as a store of value and means of exchange. In fact, stable coins are relatively recent addition to crypto ecosystem, and the market existed and thrived without them for years.

USDT appeared at the end of 2015. Before that, I traded on crypto exchanges. It was a very good time, there were no regulations and blocking, there was no know your client procedure, but there was a problem when exchanging for fiat, because the price of the cryptocurrency was changing. After the introduction of stablecoins, it became much more convenient.

If you are trying to justify an investment case for ethereum, other related shitcoins and/or stable coins based on the tail rather than the dog, then you are likely going to come to erroneous conclusions in regards to whether the dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog.  

I am not suggesting that you cannot make money on ethereum, other related shitcoins and/or stable coins, and surely they are lacking in a lot of the resiliency qualities that bitcoin has - and surely, it is possible that some of that crap might be able to partner with governments (maybe in this case Brazil is going down the shitcoin (rather than bitcoin) road) and financial institutions and continue in the various ways that traditional institutions have been scamming normies.. including a lot of the weaknesses of unsound scammy debt practices - and in the whole scheme of things, I will stand by my point that bitcoin is the dog (not the tail), bitcoin is the innovation.. (and stable coins that are built upon or through bitcoin are more likely to have soundness in their value), and surely you may well end up getting wrecked when you are losing focus upon where the value is at - even if the convoluted bullshit that surrounds ethereum and other scams could well last for as much time as you need (20 to 50 years.. even if you have no way of knowing when the rug is going to get pulled or the card house of those scams is going to fall) in order for you to do sufficiently well financially from them.. in spite of the various uncertainties, centralization issues and their lack of resiliencies, as compared (contrasted to) the ways that bitcoin is designed.. and surely any coins or projects that attempt to link themselves to bitcoin or to peg upon bitcoin, or collateralize with bitcoin are likely going to do better (and more sound investments) as compared with various convoluted shitcoin projects that are built upon the top of the ethereum (affinity scam) smoke and mirror house of cards.

I have bitcoin, but I invest in other coins as well, so I have to take risks. In my case, I risk only a part of the money already earned. My risk management does not allow me to keep all investments in bitcoin only. Bitcoin is a dog, not a tail, but there is always a risk that the masters of the world's finances will want to kill the dog.

Of course, all of us should understand that bitcoin is the target for any potential threat to various classes of the powers that be that include financial institutions, status quo rich and government officials who believe it in their interest to maintain those alliances with the status quo rich.  

So yeah bitcoin is largely the ONLY one that is disruptive and adding value.. that's the point that I have been making.. I am not attempting to sweep that angle under the rug.. and I had also been saying that whenever you see the need for diversification, it usually would not be necessary to diversify within the sector once you figure out the leader and the winner, and in this case bitcoin is the leader of the sector and the winner. and it seems that you are either still trying to figure that out or you do not believe in that aspect of "best practices" in terms of employing diversification of investments....

So we do not need to agree on any of this, and for sure, the markets are going to work out these matters with the passage of time in terms of maybe helping to show good (or better) ways to diversify, allocate and employ risk management strategies.  I am not even suggesting that you are wrong, but some of the things that you said about bitcoin was surely wrong and your pumping of bullshit ethereum talking points well seem to be wrong.. even though I know a lot the shitcoin pumpers (including the ethereum dweebs) tend to sound very smart when they are making their various arguments in regards to the supposed value of ethereum and various other shit projects that are built around it.  For sure, I don't claim to know whether a "flippening" might or might not take place, but even if such a "flippening" were to take place, I doubt that ethereum would all of a sudden have a better investment thesis as compared with bitcoin... and you are free to make those kinds of bets and figure out how much you believe the bet to be worth in the whole scheme of all the considerations that you should be attempting to make when you invest into any purported long term investment plan that presumptively intends to build your value over time.

Several times, I have repeated that I consider that governments and financial institutions have similar kinds of allocation considerations when it comes to whether to invest into bitcoin or other various projects that might involve shitcoins such as ethereum or other ways that they might allocate their government resources, surely governments and financial institutions do have goals to want to be able to control monetary aspects in their respective circles that likely would not be goals of normie individuals (even though some rich folks might want to engage in influence peddling or whatever it is that the power hungry rich elite start to do once they get to certain higher statuses of being able to manipulate and control economies and industries).

[zasad@]

I think that bitcoin has become famous and is traded on major world exchanges, because influential people in the world have joined this process. There is the original Ethereum, which we call Ethereum Classic, but we see that the coin is not popular. I also have litecoin and I like this coin more because of faster and cheaper transactions.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Brazil has not enacted regulations or legislation specifically regulating cryptocurrence, existing legal and regulatory structures provide guidance with respect to cryptocurrencies. Currently Brazil law doesn't provide anit-money laundering regime specifically to virtual  currencies.However, the existing anti-money laundering law like extends to virtual currencies in a number of contexts.
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