Ponzi scheme scammer uses BTC to cover tracks

[WeThePe0ple]

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

[Lucius]

They can cover their tracks as much as they want, but they can't hide if one of those powerful agencies wants to find them - or in other words, if the scam turns into a multimillion-dollar fraud. There are numerous stories that speak in favor of this, although there are certainly those scammers who manage to stay under the radar.

That patient of yours took the bait very well, because he reinvests almost everything he allegedly earned, and at some point everything will collapse and he will be left with nothing. Even what he is telling you may not even be true, maybe he is just one of those who throw the bait and wait for someone like you to be caught on the hook. 600% investment return in just a few months is certainly nothing legal, you shouldn't have any doubts about that.

[Accardo]

Ponzi scheme is similar to fishing, you use a bait to catch a fish that's why nobody is to be blamed. Most often, why these Ponzi admins go Scott free is because some people profited on the initial stage. Like your patient whose profits is around $9000 she won't have the guts to chase after the admins when they're gone, same with other victims. Apparently, only a few that didn't make a dime; those that their funds were used to close the scheme would blow the whistle and it may not sound too loud for the Government to hear them.

[hatshepsut93]

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

If the scammer is dumb enough to not use mixing or similar tools, and then send the coins to a centralized exchange that does KYC, and this exchange would cooperate with police, the scammer could get caught. Otherwise there's very low chance of this happening. Though you should still remember that Bitcoin transaction is not the only activity - a scammer could use their name, adddress, their photo to establish trust, and this could help police catch them.

[Coin_trader]

YES. There’s a news about this last October that a ponzi operator during 2012 just got arrested this October for committing such criminal offense even a long time ago. You read the news on this Bitcoin Ponzi Operator Ordered Imprisoned for Civil Contempt although his case is already in court many years ago. The ruling still a guilty against him because all the illegal transactions that proof on the offense is recorded in the blockchain.

There’s also chain analysis services nowadays that can track all the transactions even with a mixer. This criminals ponzi operator might not be caught today but they will soon once victims file a case against them.

[hugeblack]

Excuse me, but will you give your money to someone who will invest it without knowing this person?
When a person invests your money and gives you a return, there must be a commercial, investment, lending or any income-generating activity. Ask that person about this data and if it is practically impossible to achieve that profit, why you invest in the first place?

Ponzi schemes are investments that appear to be profitable, and the average person cannot verify that it is a scam except after it has occurred, but after scrutiny from investment institutions and companies, and after careful examination, it can be revealed.

Therefore, the model that offers 600% profits without mentioning a logical mechanism for generating those profits is a scam and you would be stupid if you gave them your money.

[WeThePe0ple]

They can cover their tracks as much as they want, but they can't hide if one of those powerful agencies wants to find them - or in other words, if the scam turns into a multimillion-dollar fraud. There are numerous stories that speak in favor of this, although there are certainly those scammers who manage to stay under the radar.

That patient of yours took the bait very well, because he reinvests almost everything he allegedly earned, and at some point everything will collapse and he will be left with nothing. Even what he is telling you may not even be true, maybe he is just one of those who throw the bait and wait for someone like you to be caught on the hook. 600% investment return in just a few months is certainly nothing legal, you shouldn't have any doubts about that.

I've known the patient for 4 years now. We are friends.
She logged into her account and showed me the transaction history.
She started with a hundred bucks, to test the waters. Then she 10x'ed because the withdrawal worked, and now she has done it again.

She and her husband are both in it for 10k at this point. They are even making accounts for their children.
They realize it may be a scam, but they only invest previous profits so they can't lose their own money.
If people succeed in taking out $10k or $50k to test the waters, and the scammer allows this because he expects them to re invest, they have scammed the scammer.

Although I do not believe the scammer will let them take out this kind of money.
I considered entering the scheme because the scammer is likely to let people take out profits under 10k.

But I do have to register with my passport, and I don't feel comfortable uploading this to a scammer's website

[pooya87]

would result in a 600% return on investment.

This type of scam is too obvious because it is pretty simple to debunk them. If there existed a method of investment that could give such a massive return they would never accept YOU as an investor! They would simply invest their own money and become billionaires in a short time...

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

It is both easy to find the scammer and arrest them and to prove this whole operation is a scam.
The real problem is whether the law enforcement going to do anything about it. Someone has to file a complaint and go through all the legal work to bring them down. In Ponzi schemes people don't do that until it is too late and the scammer has already ran away with their money.

[so98nn]

You should search for this term on the Google “QNET”.

You will see stories of peeps around the globe who got scammed in millions of dollars and nobody knew how to recover the same. Though there is proper channel, valid registration of companies and if you go and complain about it to the authorities they will have answers to every steps that you took at the time of investing money and why you lost it.

When you register for the schemes they will add you to the down line and they will gift you holiday packages and take you to big 7 star hotels overseas and have meet ups.

They will literally brain wash you with all those pleasures and leisure trips and you will find yourself at a spot where it feels like dreamy and you can’t get out of it.

If you lodge complain about their fraud then they will simply tell court that they spent money on your trips, present all your photos and videos and airplane tickets and stuff.

They will cover A to Z trails and that’s why they are running smoothly till date.

The only difference is, it was used to be in fiat currency and now BITCOIN is way to make it more private and easy to convince.

[Zlantann]

Immediately anyone introduces a business or an investment scheme to me, the first question I asked is: How would the company make a profit after giving me all these large profits? Anyone can easily identify them with their enticing profits and benefits but greed and lack of contentment will always make people fall victim.

I hate when Bitcoin is associated with crime because it gives some anti-Bitcoin forces the privilege to make such news a newspaper headline. I have never invested in any Ponzi scheme and I would never do that.

[rat03gopoh]

I considered entering the scheme because the scammer is likely to let people take out profits under 10k.

What if they later change it to just under $100?

But I do have to register with my passport, and I don't feel comfortable uploading this to a scammer's website

At this point, you've lost.

It seems that you're really ambitious with that profit even though there is no guarantee at all that the next 9 months the capital you put in can even be returned intact. I think you better go to the casino site.

[seoincorporation]

I don't think the ponzi owner is smart enough to cover his track, in some point he will need to use an exchange to conver the coins into real money, and there is where he can get tracked.

The best option is to report the address to the police and give all information you have to them, like the Ponzi website, phone number, or even some names. That would help the police to find who is behind that scam.

BTC can't be used to cover tracks, for that we have Monero 

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>

Although it is certainly going to turn out to be a scam, you could state what the website url so people can look into it further (i.e. place the url in a code structure so nobody clicks is inadvertently, or something like this: www[dot]domain[dot]extension).

Using as bait a x6 for locking bitcoin during 9 months is bound to get some people to fall for it, and a few may actually see some returns in order to get people to invest more, or to get some positive word-of-mouth spreading around.

What surprises me though is that, if your patient has already been able to make a withdrawal, then the scheme has been running at least for 9 months as per de conditions stated in the OP. That’s a pretty long time for a scheme of the sort, and perhaps the scammer’s strategy is based on a cultivated word-of-mouth promotion, rather that the classical quick email/social network procedure plus a pop-up site.

[livingfree]

You're right with the description of these pyramiding scams and ponzi's. They're just getting the profit of the existing members from the new members and there goes the cycle.

As for tracking the btc address, it's very possible but it's harder than to be expected because it can sent through a mixer and switched or converted to privacy coins and other coins for them to be more harder to be tracked.

[Antonas1]

Cases like this always need a report from the victim. The problem is, as long as those people (who finally get scammed) are still making a profit from it, they will never report it, and only report it when they lose money.
I know because I once had a friend like your friend. He lost big money for twice on the MMM Global ponzi scheme a few years ago, first in fiat, and second in BTC.

I considered entering the scheme because the scammer is likely to let people take out profits under 10k.

Just don't! Better use your money to buy Bitcoin now!

[zasad@]

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

There is a lot of such fraud in my country, but a very important point for a new participant to receive money is to attract new investors to this financial pyramid. If you do not bring new participants, then the organizers of the financial pyramid will not allow you to withdraw a lot of money. Therefore, the participants of the financial paramid are actively engaged in attracting new participants.

[pawanjain]

Bitcoin is pseudonymous which basically means it is no completely anonymous as it seems.
If the powerful agencies want to track the user they can still do it but that's not possible if a common man like us wants to track the user down.
At some point the scammer will use the money for something or will try to withdraw the money which is when the scammer is tracked down.
Although its not easy it is not impossible.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.

We had a similar scheme in our country too. It only accepted cryptocurrencies and gave about that kind of percentages (I presume mostly to those on top). It burst after about a month. If it hasn't happened yet, be sure that it will.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?

Yes, but bitcoin is cash and that's how you should treat it. The scammer shouldn't be considered dumb. He's likely going to use mixing and, just as cash, become untraceable.

[WeThePe0ple]

I hate when Bitcoin is associated with crime because it gives some anti-Bitcoin forces the privilege to make such news a newspaper headline. I have never invested in any Ponzi scheme and I would never do that.

I agree. And I have not invested in BTC (yet?) for various reasons. The main one being that governments will find a way to fight against it. And the excuse will be to associate it with crime. Although BTC is legitimate, its privacy allows for scammers to stay under the radar. And that is a pretty valid argument for governments and banks to go after BTC.

We had a similar scheme in our country too. It only accepted cryptocurrencies and gave about that kind of percentages (I presume mostly to those on top). It burst after about a month. If it hasn't happened yet, be sure that it will.

But the scammer knows that nobody will invest large amounts of money if he does not allow them to withdraw substantial amounts of money (under 10k) at least once. And if you are high up in the pyramid, you might be able to have 2 successful withdrawals near the 10k range before the whole pyramid collapses from below.
The thing is that nobody knows where in the pyramid they are.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[BlackHatCoiner]

The main one being that governments will find a way to fight against it.

Every single entity that is threatened by it is attacking it years now. Yet, against all odds, bitcoin somehow continues operating in a transparent, censorship-resistant manner, serving individuals with peer-to-peer transactions every 10 minutes. Apparently, humans always find a way to step closer to freedom.

And if you are high up in the pyramid, you might be able to have 2 successful withdrawals near the 10k range before the whole pyramid collapses from below.

The bet is greed. Very few are going to stop at 2 withdrawals if they see their balance going upwards.

[Lucius]

~snip~

There is no justification for Ponzi schemes, regardless of who such information comes from, good friends or just acquaintances - the fact is that a lot of people will lose a lot of money in that story, and anyone who promotes it in any way is complicit in the final outcome. Not only will people lose money, but they can become victims of identity theft - and that's a much bigger problem than losing a few hundred or thousands of dollars.


@WeThePe0ple

32. Posting multiple posts in a row (excluding bumps and reserved posts by the thread starter) is not allowed.

[Bitstar_coin]

I really feel sorry for your friend for not stopping when he had the opportunity to do so. The first and second withdrawal was a golden opportunity to walk away with his money but greed has a way of taking over.
It is a bit surprising to know till now people still fall for ponzi scheme. No legit business will offer such a high %apy and able to survive.
Greed is a terrible thing and often result to a great loss. If he can get the right authorities involved, there is a high possibility their identity will be revealed and apprehended.

[Maidak]

I really feel sorry for your friend for not stopping when he had the opportunity to do so. The first and second withdrawal was a golden opportunity to walk away with his money but greed has a way of taking over.
It is a bit surprising to know till now people still fall for ponzi scheme. No legit business will offer such a high %apy and able to survive.
Greed is a terrible thing and often result to a great loss. If he can get the right authorities involved, there is a high possibility their identity will be revealed and apprehended.

Sometimes they are not lured into these scams but voluntarily participate because they cannot control their greed. Many people think that they will be smarter than others, meaning they will invest and will quickly withdraw before the project collapses but unfortunately when they join, they are blinded by profits until they really lose everything, then they remember their original purpose. It is not possible to give advice to such people, the only way is to let them experience and draw lessons for themselves, even though it will be the most expensive lesson they have ever learned.

[Ojima-ojo]

The ultimate question is, will law enforcement agencies do the work to arrest and persecute such scammer where we have CEO of exchange and other investment platform who file false bankruptcy order and walking away with investors, funds.

Not to mention how hard decentralization made is to discover the identity of wallet users and also if the scammer use Bitcoin mixing services it may become hard for the bitcoin to be trace.

Similar thing happens even in centralized banking system were their perform their scam-operating Ponzi scheme through the banking system and some time I can't stop but to wonder if scam collaboration exit between the bank, scammer, and law enforcement agencies.

[uneng]

Try tracking the bitcoin address your friend made the deposit, so you will find the final destination of the money. If the scammer uses mixing crypto services, there is still hope. You can denounce the website or app to the police and their intelligence service can track the origins of the site owner, IP and every other details which can lead to the real identity of the scammer.

If the ponzi has social medias and other kinds of advertisements it's better yet. Without any doubts he must have left a gap on any of his accounts that could help authorities to reach "the pharaoh".

[teosanru]

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

It's difficult but possible. I mean if it's a pyramid scheme then eventually the root account can be identified based on the first transaction made to that wallet and that wallet might have had some fiat withdrawal or some sort of deposit which would have had KYC. I mean it's difficult and is more like searching in the dark but it's not entirely impossible if you ask me. With sophisticated computers this shouldn't be a long task but yes if he erases his websites and user databases then it will become very tricky.

[panganib999]

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

Unfortunately through the manner at which he requests the tithings be made, there wouldn't be any forms of lead that would direct the authorities to him, so unless you personally know the perpetrator of this scam yourself, it would be a little too hard to hold them accountable in court due to the lack of evidence. Then again there are some instances of people outing themselves as the founder of a project in its infancy, then taking the money for themselves that are eventually caught or at least put in the wanted list of the police, sometimes by the InterPol even, that being said this happens very scarcely so don't get your hopes up. The case with bitcoin's anonymity is truly a double-edged sword. It helps people be obscured for stuff and purchases they don't want revealed, at the same time causing wrong-doers to commit crimes scot-free

[lionheart78]

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?

Yes, there are lots of cases where the owner of a Ponzi scheme is arrested even though they are under the guise of cryptocurrency.  As long as there is complain, and enough evidence of the fraud, the person can be arrested.

Founder of Fraudulent Cryptocurrency Charged in $2 Billion BitConnect Ponzi Scheme
Two arrested in massive $575m cryptocurrency 'Ponzi scheme'
SEC Charges Eleven Individuals in $300 Million Crypto Pyramid Scheme
Bitcoin Ponzi Operator Ordered Imprisoned for Civil Contempt

Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

In fact, it is easier because Bitcoin blockchain is transparent and the transaction link can be viewed publicly.

[KingsDen]

...Most often, why these Ponzi admins go Scott free is because some people profited on the initial stage. Like your patient whose profits is around $9000 she won't have the guts to chase after the admins when they're gone, same with other victims.

You know too well how the system works and sadly I have been a victim of this which crippled my first attempt of financial breakthrough. When the ponzi scheme fails, the people at the top of the pyramid must have benefited enough such that they wouldn't have the guts to purse the course and eventually the founder is caught, they would also be indicted. They will have no option than to hide in shame and enjoy their money in secret.

Some who are heartless will come back to console you and use the opportunity to introduce you to another ponzi scheme where they already occupied the bottom slots and you will come and deposit money which will be used to pay them as well.

[Solosanz]

It depends on how good the scammer to use Bitcoin without any trace and remain 100% anonymous. Bitcoin is pseudonymous where anyone can know the address, but they can't know who's the person who control that's address. If he's not run full node, there's a chance his IP address would be leaked since he's use someone server to connect his wallet. Or if he use centralized exchange and have submitted his KYC, he can be easily get frozen when someone report that address is from a scammer.

[Vlad1977]

Bitcoin is characterized by anonymity. So many people think of scamming with Bitcoin. But Bitcoin also has the advantage of being open and transparent. We can see all transactions on the chain.
Don't blindly trust other people's words in all investments. Do your research before any investment. Use your own judgment.

[DapanasFruit]

Of course, scammers are using any available means in order to lessen the chance of getting into the court and to serve the time for the crime committed...and we have to remember that this is the case even if cryptocurrency has never came into the scene. Now, we already have some good technologies and mechanisms that can track people - the scammers - even if they are using Bitcoin. What can be harder is recovering the funds - again this is also true if the scammer can be using the fiat system - but for proving the fraud all one has to do is work for the victims because I am sure there can be records of transactions with the scammers and this can be a good advise for all to make sure  that documentation is always ready.

[gunhell16]

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

That's how the Ponzi scheme is designed, you can only make money there if you're the one at the top, and those at the bottom are the ones who get in. Because what is paid to the early investors will also come from the last to enter that style. And with my knowledge of traditional Ponzi schemes, I have heard of many people being caught and imprisoned for scamming people.

Now, if the scammer's request is through Bitcoin, this is a big question for me right away. After all, it is certain that the address he will give is his bitcoin address and of course, he will not admit that it is his but will issue it to the bitcoin address of the company, because they will remain anonymous this way and it will be difficult to be traced by the concerned government agency.

[cheezcarls]

I work in healthcare and one of my patients offered an investment opportunity to me.
Leaving any amount of money higher than 100 bucks untouched for 9 months, would result in a 600% return on investment.
Of course this is fraud, but I had to figure it out. It is a pyramid system in which withdrawals of people at the top, are funded by money from new "investors" at the bottom of the pyramid. My patient had made 2 previous withdrawals with success ($2500 profit and $9000 profit), and has now invested $10 000 expecting 60 000 in a few months.

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

Typical ponzi because of the word “promised” and “guaranteed” in returns. If you are one of the early birds, you would get lucky to exit with profit as long there are other ones after you.

It’s a gamble but others who are way behind are gonna be left out and not going to recover their investments.

This is where blockchain comes in that would trace your transactions that is immutable no matter where it goes. Plus, they are in public where everyone can view without the need to login.

[joeperry]

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

If the investigators or police really tracked him down, there will be a point that he needs to use a legal service to withdraw a big amount and that could lead to his arrest but there's a lot of ways now to cover tracks such as using a mixing service, coinjoin, selling Bitcoin to buy anonymous coins such as Monero and Zcash then use it to trade in P2p. If I can remember only few were arrested but not all.

[Reid]

When no new money enters the system, the bottom line of the pyramid loses their money and the creator of the scam takes it all.
The scammer asks to get paid in BTC, not in fiat currency.

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?

Does this mean they really know the owner of the scheme, because it's just a sudden change of payment option.
That means he can run but he cannot hide anymore if his identity was already known from the start where the member are paying fiat.

Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

It is. But there are always ways to track them. It's not like Bitcoin is pure anonymous. Somehow, that address will try to send it to someone, mix it, or send to an exchange to make it to cash. Or, if ever he tries to use BTC directly, it can still be traced.

[Simplycallmecollins]

I had similar experience not long ago and I made a post about it.
These fraudsters are intentional about their payment method because it become really difficult (not impossible) to track them, unlike a regular bank account where your information are stored in their database and the government are able to get access to them.
Also, I should mention that some of the people who engage in this ponzi schemes are aware they would get defrauded, but they just hope the platform doesn't crash as soon as they join and hopefully make some money.
However, like I was advised, when there's such "investment opportunity" make good research, and if the reward is too good to be true, that is little efforts with huge return, it's most likely a scam.

[WeThePe0ple]

There is a lot of such fraud in my country, but a very important point for a new participant to receive money is to attract new investors to this financial pyramid. If you do not bring new participants, then the organizers of the financial pyramid will not allow you to withdraw a lot of money. Therefore, the participants of the financial paramid are actively engaged in attracting new participants.

This makes sense. I was not aware of this. I thought that it did not matter who brings the new participants. I have noticed that my friend is actively searching for new participants. By making accounts for her children, by contacting me and God knows how many others. And I have informed her about the scam but she does not want to believe it.

I do hope that for her children, she is not using much of her own money to get started. I just informed her about your post, but I have the impression that she does not want to hear it and is even getting pissed off at me for not letting it go. Clearly she will remain in the pyramid.
Same thing for her husband, who is also a patient of mine.

Typical ponzi because of the word “promised” and “guaranteed” in returns. If you are one of the early birds, you would get lucky to exit with profit as long there are other ones after you.

But if you are in it for $10 000 and you get two guys to join for 100 bucks, I don't think the scammer will allow your withdrawal.
You could grow your bankroll to 10k, send a message to "customer service" saying that you would like to test the withdrawal and then get 2 family members in for 10k each (which of course you will not do)

But if he believes you and lets you withdraw, you can scam the scammer.
However, the withdrawn money is from victims. If they ever try to claim it back, and it is in the bank account of someone higher up in the pyramid, the victims may be charged as criminals. After all, the scammer has printscreens of their passports.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[CryptSafe]

Scammers of lately have mapped out so many means of scamming people of their hard earned resources be it fiat Bitcoin and other Crypto currencies. The truth it that most of their victims do know for sure and just like the other poster before me said that "they do know but for the fact that they do benefit from the scheme, they find it difficulty to report as they make huge profits from it."
 
Like I will always say there is nothing hidden under the sun, there is no crime schemes that can not be investigated as long as that wallet holding that ill gotten assets is doing transactions, the owner can be apprehended by the security agencies if they swung into actions. It is not a difficult one and it is no difference from what they agencies have been doing for long now but all it takes is just reporting the issue to them and watch them act.

[Lucius]

This makes sense. I was not aware of this. I thought that it did not matter who brings the new participants. I have noticed that my friend is actively searching for new participants. By making accounts for her children, by contacting me and God knows how many others. And I have informed her about the scam but she does not want to believe it.

You have some strange patients, who even involve their own children in something illegal - an honest citizen would report it to the police, anonymously of course. They know very well what it is about, the fact that they are persistent only proves that they are at the top of the pyramid and want to draw as many people into their network as possible.

By the way, did you read my previous post? For someone who is a doctor, you should pay a little more attention to well-intentioned advice.

[WeThePe0ple]

By the way, did you read my previous post? For someone who is a doctor, you should pay a little more attention to well-intentioned advice.

I just did.

The thing is that they are not convinced it is a Ponzi scheme in the first place. They do not believe it is illegal. I tried to make the scheme clear and they showed me powerpoint presentations of "investment projects" from the scammer. It seems to me that the people in the pyramid are not the brightest minds in society. I've spoken to 3 of them and I immediately noticed that. I ask them questions like "If this was genuine, why are the richest people in society not involved in this?" and "If they make so much money, why do they need money from others?". And then they freeze, but hold on to the pyramid anyway.

A more intelligent person would do some research and figure it out. These people can't even figure it out when someone else does the work for them.
They have had 2 successful withdrawals and they are hoping that this will make them rich.

Both patients have told me about 2 Dutch women who are actively drawing as many people as possible to the scheme.
I think the first move is probably to report these women to the police. They are high up in the pyramid and they must know what is going on

[Yatsan]

Do you guys know why there are scammers? 'coz there are people they can trick. But why are people being carried by  those frauds? 'coz people believe to easy way of earning money or profit. There's no such thing. Those people earning big time invested time and money which makes their methods 'easy' on our perspectives. Once something is unrealistic, be cautious and vigilant as well. Such as with what OP have mentioned. 100 bucks and 600% in returns just by storing it. How's that even possible? There's always that risk indeed on every means of investment but atleast you can minimize it by doing a bit of research or reading of what you are trying to drag yourself into.

[Blawpaw]

There's nothing new here. Bitcoin and any other means of exchange will always be used for scamming. Even when Bitcoin still did not exist, we had telexfree ponzi scheme and several others that were done with cash.
Now, if they use Bitcoin to cover their tracks, they will eventually be unmasked as we all know that there is an ongoing clampdown on Bitcoin mixers and one way or another transactions can be tracked.

Long before Bitcoin's inception, scamming was already done. Some made it with gold while others have done it with cash, and even goods, so Bitcoin is not the problem. As with everything in life, humans are the problem

[Leviathan.007]

Offering any investment plan can smell fishy because most of them will suggest people invest their money for earning high amounts of profits That's too bad especially when we see these kinds of people are using bitcoin and cryptocurrencies for their dirty stuff because this can show a bad face from bitcoin and cryptocurrencies to other people and for the people who don't have enough knowledge they thing bitcoin is used for criminal activities and for covering tracks of these people crimes.

[Diuyen Kim]

They won't let you invest that much money in the first place. Investing a small amount of money will result in a small amount of profit, and he will gradually lower your vigilance. When you slowly increase the amount of money, they will put your money in their pockets, and you will not be able to find out who they are. It can only be said not to trust others very much at any time, even if that person is your friend. Protect your money, the only person you can trust is yourself.

[davis196]

The ponzi scheme creator must be really dumb, if he thinks that using BTC(without good BTC mixers) would cover his tracks.
It isn't that hard for the authorities to catch the creators of the ponzi scheme. It all comes to catching some of the people, who are at  the bottom and the middle of the pyramid and pressuring them into revealing the guys, who referred them to the scheme.
Every ponzi scheme begins with meetings in person between the scammer and his "investors" and direct "sales persuasion".
At some point, the people at the bottom of the pyramid will start complaining about not getting their 600% ROI. They are potential witnesses for the police.

[Alpha Marine]

Do you guys know why there are scammers? 'coz there are people they can trick. But why are people being carried by  those frauds? 'coz people believe to easy way of earning money or profit. There's no such thing. Those people earning big time invested time and money which makes their methods 'easy' on our perspectives. Once something is unrealistic, be cautious and vigilant as well. Such as with what OP have mentioned. 100 bucks and 600% in returns just by storing it. How's that even possible? There's always that risk indeed on every means of investment but atleast you can minimize it by doing a bit of research or reading of what you are trying to drag yourself into.

I just saved someone I know a couple of months ago from falling  into the hands of these scammers. I just don't understand how they can't see that it's a scam. All they do in ponzi schemes is take money from Mr A, Mr B, add your own money to it and give it back to you. That kind of system is ALWAYS bound to crash (emphasis on always).
How do you see a business that pays you 100% to 300% ROI within just one month. That's a big red flag.
Another red flag is "no risk involved". That's one of the funniest things I've heard. In what world do you see an invested with 0% risk? It's screams scam but unfortunately people still fall for it.

[capedbaldy]

There are many types of pyramid investments in online businesses but scammers combine pyramid investments with crypto to deceive investors and traders, but the pyramid investment mode can be easily identified because we are offered profits above 100% according to the investment period, even though cryptocurrency based pyramid investments are difficult to tracked but we can protect ourselves to avoid these investments by knowing some of the common characteristics of fraudulent investment modes:
1. The pyramid business will never get permission from the authorities and other financial legal entities.
2. They promise very high no-risk return guarantees, but actually they don't provide any guarantees.
3. The withdrawal process is difficult even your withdrawal will be delayed for a very long time
4. Maintenance "forever", usually the team frequently updates the maintenance information which means their scam strategy will end soon, they will take your money away.

[_BlackStar]

There are many cases of ponzi investment in the community, most of the modes are the same but often the cover is different. Everyone tends to be careful when getting an investment offer in the name of bitcoin. Many people suffer losses from illegal investments ^{[ponzi schemes]} because they don't understand what investing is, so there is nothing to consider when someone wants you to invest under their control.

Bitcoin has never promised a return within a certain time frame, a return on people's investment because of its fluctuating value. So no one knows what percentage of profit will be obtained in one month, one year or for a certain period.

[hZti]

There are many cases of ponzi investment in the community, most of the modes are the same but often the cover is different. Everyone tends to be careful when getting an investment offer in the name of bitcoin. Many people suffer losses from illegal investments ^{[ponzi schemes]} because they don't understand what investing is, so there is nothing to consider when someone wants you to invest under their control.

Bitcoin has never promised a return within a certain time frame, a return on people's investment because of its fluctuating value. So no one knows what percentage of profit will be obtained in one month, one year or for a certain period.

Many people come to the bitcoin wold because they want easy money. They see a page where they get 20% return of they "stake" their bitcoins ore something else. Then they see a stupid explanation why this website gives them 20% return and not 5% like you would get with any other investment. They believe it because bitcoin is magic internet money that gives free money. They eventually loose their bitcoin and say bitcoin as a whole is a scam.
Best Part: Many of those people are here in the forum but dont know yet that their bitcoins are sooner or later lost.

[Odusko]

Although I do not believe the scammer will let them take out this kind of money.
I considered entering the scheme because the scammer is likely to let people take out profits under 10k.

But I do have to register with my passport, and I don't feel comfortable uploading this to a scammer's website

This line of thinking is what has led many into becoming victims of investments scam, this method of Ponzi has been around for a while now but we should already know that scammers already have a good map out plan to exploit the investors, so no matter how smart an investor is he will end up losing everything in the long run.
Trying to outsmart the scammers with trial funds is not a good idea to me and you should not upload your document on third party website most especially an investment platform because there are no legal financial institutions, a lot of such schemes have collapsed lately and investors are counting their loses.

[The Cryptovator]

Is the Ponzi schemer still alive? I assumed that crypto users were already aware of how a Ponzi scheme works and how to protect their funds. Ponzi schemes never last, and the people who run them are scammers. Once they have raised a sufficient amount, they can proceed with the funds. If the BTC address is not public, there is no way to track the scammer. Just keep in mind that there is no money-making machine that will provide you with high returns. Use your brain and save money.

[buwaytress]

Hard to convince people who can't see the proof in the poisoned pudding. Greed dampens the small voice in the back of their heads telling them it's a game they're eventually going to lose.

High returns with no effort. Lock in periods. Referral fees. Guarantees of profit (even SBF in his pitches used phrases like "risk free" and "zero risk"). Classic ponzi schemes.

Years ago I read research about triad gangs in Southeast Asia, same circle of people running relatively low value ponzis like this. HYIP rings and money doublers. I saw them myself in the late 1990s, mid-2000s. They don't end up taking much but they just run multiple sites, rinse and repeat, so stay below the Madoff radar.

Used to be cash in mail, internet and PayPal was next, then digital payments like e-gold, not Bitcoin.

[EarnOnVictor]

Many people have used Bitcoin to perpetrate evil in the past and they are still doing that, but with caution now as Bitcoin is getting more adoption, knowledge and exposure. And Ponzi has been before BTC and would continue to be, but in an advanced scheme, and such is what Bitcoin made available through its privacy and anonymity. Many people have been swindled through this and many would still be scammed unless they are careful themselves in falling for HYIPs.

And as for the question of the OP, the Bitcoin Ponzi scam could only be traced if the scammer is careless. Although BTC transactions are traceable, there are many vices to make transactions untraceable.

[borovichok]

Is the Ponzi schemer still alive? I assumed that crypto users were already aware of how a Ponzi scheme works and how to protect their funds. Ponzi schemes never last, and the people who run them are scammers. Once they have raised a sufficient amount, they can proceed with the funds. If the BTC address is not public, there is no way to track the scammer. Just keep in mind that there is no money-making machine that will provide you with high returns. Use your brain and save money.

Scams are everywhere, there's no single thing that don't have existence of scams inside. Bitcoin is worldwide and it's growing rapidly to other parts of the universe, left for you and me to adapt to it and know how the entire project operates. There's new scamming method everyday, and we need to be fully enlighten on how to control and prevent from been victims. We have our own pattern of noticing scams and it's very simple, we can also use our common sense to know what's scam and legit.

[Vaskiy]

Is the Ponzi schemer still alive? I assumed that crypto users were already aware of how a Ponzi scheme works and how to protect their funds. Ponzi schemes never last, and the people who run them are scammers. Once they have raised a sufficient amount, they can proceed with the funds. If the BTC address is not public, there is no way to track the scammer. Just keep in mind that there is no money-making machine that will provide you with high returns. Use your brain and save money.

Scams are everywhere, there's no single thing that don't have existence of scams inside. Bitcoin is worldwide and it's growing rapidly to other parts of the universe, left for you and me to adapt to it and know how the entire project operates. There's new scamming method everyday, and we need to be fully enlighten on how to control and prevent from been victims. We have our own pattern of noticing scams and it's very simple, we can also use our common sense to know what's scam and legit.

Agreed, it is our responsibility to keep ourselves secure identifying how the scammers approach and how to stay away from such people. When something gets value, automatically there arises a group that scam common people in the same name. More pyramid schemes are running around in the name of cryptocurrency, as scammers have identified the increasing usage around the world.

[Baofeng]

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

It can but it will be difficult, you need someone to really track those addresses and be identified to that individual.

Because you needed to do blockchain chain analysis, here this company who specialized on it: https://www.chainalysis.com/. But obviously, it will take a lot of money to tap their services though. So unless this individual scam millions and millions of dollars and as a Ponzi scheme, authorities might not react as swift as they can, just saying.

[_BlackStar]

Many people come to the bitcoin wold because they want easy money. They see a page where they get 20% return of they "stake" their bitcoins ore something else. Then they see a stupid explanation why this website gives them 20% return and not 5% like you would get with any other investment. They believe it because bitcoin is magic internet money that gives free money. They eventually loose their bitcoin and say bitcoin as a whole is a scam.
Best Part: Many of those people are here in the forum but dont know yet that their bitcoins are sooner or later lost.

When any website offers returns like that, I can assure you it is an attempt at scam which should be avoided ASAP. Staking is of course different like most fake websites that offer high returns, so it's only natural that they have to be very careful and do a thorough analysis before investing.

I'm sure some people here ^{[in this forum]} may have received offers like that from friends or other random people, so they should be able to choose and sort out which ones are really legitimate for their investment. Losses and gains are a definite consequence for every investor, so they must be quite responsible for whatever they choose.

[Nrcewker]

Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

This depends on various factors. I mean if he had publicly linked his BTC address with his profile anywhere, then he can be easily traced through it. If he doesn’t use any mixer, and directly sends all the money to his wallet, then also he can be caught. In order to cash out the Bitcoins, if he sends the BTC to an exchange where he has done KYC , then also he can be caught. Similar incident already happened at Binance as far as I can recall, and Binance helped the police I guess. It’s better to avoid this type of Ponzi schemes. No one becomes rich overnight. Work hard continuously, and definitely you will get profit and wealth.

[digaran]

There’s also chain analysis services nowadays that can track all the transactions even with a mixer.

So you are saying mixers are useless? Interesting🤔, how would you explain successful mixers operating for years with God know how much stolen money, and how much blood money on their hands?

[taufik123]

-snip-
Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

Very can and the BTC address will reveal who the perpetrators are behind the Ponzi scheme.
And you are wrong about the difficulty of identifying scammers via BTC addresses, because BTC uses Blockchain recording technology where all transactions will be recorded and cannot be deleted, so that the source of the money and where it ends will be known even if they use the bitcoin mixer platform service.

To prove a Ponzi scheme or report about a fraudulent scheme that is being carried out, it all depends on how many victims report it, and the losses are estimated, so that the government can move quickly to catch the perpetrator of the Ponzi scheme.

[Ryker1]

-snip-
Can his BTC address somehow lead to an arrest?
Ponzi schemes don't last long. And historically these people are arrested because the source of the money is easily identified.
Now with BTC I think it is much harder to identify the scammer and to stop the scheme. I think it's harder for any government to prove that there is a Ponzi scheme in the first place

Very can and the BTC address will reveal who the perpetrators are behind the Ponzi scheme.
And you are wrong about the difficulty of identifying scammers via BTC addresses, because BTC uses Blockchain recording technology where all transactions will be recorded and cannot be deleted, so that the source of the money and where it ends will be known even if they use the bitcoin mixer platform service.
^[snip]

If the scammer is very smart and wise, it could be a 30% of chance that they will recover it from a scammer. Yes --bitcoin could be tracked but you don't know who is the owner of the address where it landed. P2P exchanges and bitcoin mixers could be an option for this scammer to hide the scammer's identity. However, there are a lot of tools now that can track transactions but I think it takes too long before this case will close.

[Bitstar_coin]

Is the Ponzi schemer still alive? I assumed that crypto users were already aware of how a Ponzi scheme works and how to protect their funds. Ponzi schemes never last, and the people who run them are scammers. Once they have raised a sufficient amount, they can proceed with the funds. If the BTC address is not public, there is no way to track the scammer. Just keep in mind that there is no money-making machine that will provide you with high returns. Use your brain and save money.

Unfortunately there are still few ponzi schemes around. It appears not everyone has gain the know of understanding ponzi and avoiding them. Few people still fall victim in ponzi scheme which is not likely at this very time.
It is going to be a continuous campaign against ponzi schemes, educating people to avoid ponzi and such falea offer to give them high percent.

[taufik123]

If the scammer is very smart and wise, it could be a 30% of chance that they will recover it from a scammer. Yes --bitcoin could be tracked but you don't know who is the owner of the address where it landed. P2P exchanges and bitcoin mixers could be an option for this scammer to hide the scammer's identity. However, there are a lot of tools now that can track transactions but I think it takes too long before this case will close.

No matter how smart the scammers are, they will eventually get caught.
The final landing place to know the owner really needs time and the address will continue to be monitored. cases like this also depend on how many transactions were made or the amount of money the scammer managed to cheat.

The more there are, the more focused on finding the main perpetrators, as in the case of hacking carried out by several hackers who moved millions of dollars from their wallets which will continue to be monitored by the FBI.

About Options, P2P mixers are also targeted for tracking as authorities will target these platforms to provide the required data that leads to suspicious users. The government and law enforcement agencies have full authority regarding the disclosure of cases like this if necessary.

But if it's only a small transaction, maybe the case will just disappear.

Unfortunately there are still few ponzi schemes around. It appears not everyone has gain the know of understanding ponzi and avoiding them. Few people still fall victim in ponzi scheme which is not likely at this very time.
-snip-

Ponzi schemes target those who still don't understand what a Ponzi really is. Those who are trapped are also promised various benefits without knowing what a Ponzi scheme really is. Currently, Ponzi schemes use crypto as camouflage to run their business, so crypto becomes a good place for them and it seems as if they are building a crypto project that promises a lot of profit. even though the scheme used is a Ponzi. I found a lot of Ponzi scheme projects in crypto and in the end, it hurt a lot of people.

[borovichok]

Is the Ponzi schemer still alive? I assumed that crypto users were already aware of how a Ponzi scheme works and how to protect their funds. Ponzi schemes never last, and the people who run them are scammers. Once they have raised a sufficient amount, they can proceed with the funds. If the BTC address is not public, there is no way to track the scammer. Just keep in mind that there is no money-making machine that will provide you with high returns. Use your brain and save money.

Ponzi scheme will always remain in the space because there's are more obstacles in the space and they're all scams. Taking good steps to prevent scam is one big nice tep and very tradeable interms of security. Crypto having one of the most amount of scams and it's generating as the day goes by, but it can not be eradicated but prevented, and it's by getting enough knowledge on how it works,  there by making more users serious about it. There's absolutely no investment that will grant you double or triple of money invested and later telling people that they need time to upgrade their online site.

[Oilacris]

Is the Ponzi schemer still alive? I assumed that crypto users were already aware of how a Ponzi scheme works and how to protect their funds. Ponzi schemes never last, and the people who run them are scammers. Once they have raised a sufficient amount, they can proceed with the funds. If the BTC address is not public, there is no way to track the scammer. Just keep in mind that there is no money-making machine that will provide you with high returns. Use your brain and save money.

Ponzi scheme will always remain in the space because there's are more obstacles in the space and they're all scams. Taking good steps to prevent scam is one big nice tep and very tradeable interms of security. Crypto having one of the most amount of scams and it's generating as the day goes by, but it can not be eradicated but prevented, and it's by getting enough knowledge on how it works,  there by making more users serious about it. There's absolutely no investment that will grant you double or triple of money invested and later telling people that they need time to upgrade their online site.

Come in mind that there would be no scams if theres no one letting themselves on getting scammed and thats the truth.Considering that this market is involved which huge money that circulates around

then it wont really be surprising that this would be a honeypot for scammers, swindlers and hackers all around which it is really just sensible for us investors and holders to mind off about the security

of our coins via using up non custodial wallets and be mindful on how to make use of centralized platforms which does have a bad history on those incidents
which causes up huge stolen funds and something correlated.

[Alpha Marine]

Is the Ponzi schemer still alive? I assumed that crypto users were already aware of how a Ponzi scheme works and how to protect their funds. Ponzi schemes never last, and the people who run them are scammers. Once they have raised a sufficient amount, they can proceed with the funds. If the BTC address is not public, there is no way to track the scammer. Just keep in mind that there is no money-making machine that will provide you with high returns. Use your brain and save money.

Unfortunately there are still few ponzi schemes around. It appears not everyone has gain the know of understanding ponzi and avoiding them. Few people still fall victim in ponzi scheme which is not likely at this very time.
It is going to be a continuous campaign against ponzi schemes, educating people to avoid ponzi and such falea offer to give them high percent.

The bad news is if you try to educate some people to avoid Ponzi scheme, they'll feel you're advising them to leave a profitable investment. People are so easily brainwashed because of their greed. They've seen an invested that will guarantee them 200% of their actual money in a month so who are you to tell them otherwise. I have met few people that i advised against Ponzi and they listened while some didn't. I have also met one that have lost a lot of money in Ponzi but she said she will still go into another one if she sees the opportunity. According to her its an investment and investment comes with risk.

[RealMalatesta]

Very can and the BTC address will reveal who the perpetrators are behind the Ponzi scheme.
And you are wrong about the difficulty of identifying scammers via BTC addresses, because BTC uses Blockchain recording technology where all transactions will be recorded and cannot be deleted, so that the source of the money and where it ends will be known even if they use the bitcoin mixer platform service.

To prove a Ponzi scheme or report about a fraudulent scheme that is being carried out, it all depends on how many victims report it, and the losses are estimated, so that the government can move quickly to catch the perpetrator of the Ponzi scheme.

There is also mixing though, and we could be losing the sign of them. I mean the simplest one, if there is a small scam, then they could just put their money into binance, with a token or coin they will not use, and just use a dex to turn their btc into any token and so forth. Long story short, it is quite possible to lose all of your tracks if there isn't a big one.

Obviously if it is like 100+ million dollars or whatever, then they won't be able to hide it, because everyone would be joining on the track and investigate where the money is going and that would cause a bit of trouble for them. This is why it's quite important not to be alone when you are scammed.