EU Moving to Ban Privacy Coins: Report

[Smartprofit]

So will the privacy coin disappear like a whisper on the wind? Reports that the EU will move to ban them come with a few hitches. The ban will not officially take effect until a proper regulatory framework around cryptocurrencies has been established by the EU. I'm sure that the privacy coin is here to stay.

I love reading science fiction novels about our future. 

In particular, I enjoy reading cyberpunk novels with great pleasure.  All of these novels feature anonymous and confidential currency.  The heroes of the novel are hiding from mafia persecution (for example, the yakuza or triads) and they need special untraceable anonymous money. 

From this we can conclude that the need for cryptocurrencies like Monero (XMR) is not going anywhere. 

And a ban from the European Union will not be able to lead to the disappearance of the circulation of such confidential cryptocurrencies.

[1715239586]

1715239586

[o48o]

And what exactly element/feature should be removed? Without clear definition/example, people could perceive it as removing most privacy-enhancing feature.

You can literally pick and choose the absolute minimum that regulators want without revealing ANYTHING else. It's still going to be very much more private then any open and fully transparent blockchain out there.

Both Monero and Zcash have view key which can be used to audit to some extent. Although it doesn't seem government know or care about it.

That's because zk is not been used in any way other then hiding everything. Because anything other than that would against monero's whole purpose and ideology from what i can tell

Criminal could laundry/move their money even when they use bank, so i believe they'll find way to utilize their coin. For example, 2 group of criminal agree to use certain coin for payment.

Sure, new laws are for making money laundering more difficult, it's merely impossible to remove it completely. And these new upcoming AML laws won't apply just for crypto exchanges and wallets, they apply to normal banks, accountants, tax preparers or in fact to any kind of service that deals with money.

One of the first steps is removing cash money as that's way too anonymous and anything helping that anonymity will go. However this doesn't mean full transparency, far from it. Confidentiality and privacy will be remaining aspects for the money of the future. However they will be needing auditability. This is where the ZK will be having a future.

[sana54210]

In particular, I enjoy reading cyberpunk novels with great pleasure.  All of these novels feature anonymous and confidential currency.  The heroes of the novel are hiding from mafia persecution (for example, the yakuza or triads) and they need special untraceable anonymous money. 

From this we can conclude that the need for cryptocurrencies like Monero (XMR) is not going anywhere. 

And a ban from the European Union will not be able to lead to the disappearance of the circulation of such confidential cryptocurrencies.

I do agree that the future will definitely have hidden and untraceable money, but also "banning" it doesn't really sound like it would really matter. If you are buying some untraceable money, you already know that it would be something to hide, and that means if you hide it, then you will be fine about it.

In those novels I doubt that the hero would be notifying the government about how much XMR they have, they are hiding it from the government as well, hence this ban means absolutely nothing. In its core privacy coins are there to make sure you can hide your wealth, and that means banning it is counter-productive, they were never "allowed" in a sense, they were never out in the open to begin with.

[DrBeer]

So will the privacy coin disappear like a whisper on the wind? Reports that the EU will move to ban them come with a few hitches. The ban will not officially take effect until a proper regulatory framework around cryptocurrencies has been established by the EU. I'm sure that the privacy coin is here to stay.

I love reading science fiction novels about our future.

In particular, I enjoy reading cyberpunk novels with great pleasure. All of these novels feature anonymous and confidential currency. The heroes of the novel are hiding from mafia persecution (for example, the yakuza or triads) and they need special untraceable anonymous money.

From this we can conclude that the need for cryptocurrencies like Monero (XMR) is not going anywhere.

And a ban from the European Union will not be able to lead to the disappearance of the circulation of such confidential cryptocurrencies.

I'll upset you a little
Ok, for fantastic works - it's all great! But in reality... Let's give an example. You and I, those same heroes of a fantastic work. We come to the conclusion that we need our own currency. Let it be candy wrappers Ok, so we decided. We collected, bought all the candy wrappers in the country for fiat money, the financial system is ready. And here is the most subtle point - we do not have an ordinary currency. I need a bottle of mineral water tomorrow. I go to the store and .... I leave without shopping. The only one who might sell me water for candy wrappers is you. But your water supply is not eternal, and besides candy wrappers, there is also no other money. I hope the problem is clear - the lack of a global infrastructure that will allow them to be easily, or acceptably difficult, exchanged for products of regular consumption. The question is - if the entire financial system is limited by laws - how will you use this crypto currency? While it has not been banned, it can be used even more or less. But as soon as it becomes illegal, it will not be a currency, but a "virtual hemorrhoid"

[Kakmakr]

If money laundering are their main motivation behind this, then they will have to force (FIAT) Banks to close their doors. Most money laundering are still being done through the Banking system. 

Yes, "Privacy" coins offer huge opportunities for people to use it for criminal activities, but is the same not applicable to cash? How many drug transactions on the street are done with "Privacy" coins, compared to cash.... how does that cash get into the financial system? (Registered businesses are used to launder money through the Banking system) 

[aoluain]

I don't know, man.  It seems like a very short leap from banning/restricting privacy coins to banning/restricting any cryptocurrency up to and including bitcoin itself.  Makes sense, right?

These fucking government bureaucrats aren't at all concerned about money laundering in the context of privacy coins.  Do they know there's a problem there to begin with, and how would they even get the data on that?

Just like in the US with its brand-new 80,000 IRS agents, the EU wants control over the money you spend whilst keeping their octopus hands in every pocket their citizens keep money in.  My only question is how to fight this nonsense.  Is anyone even trying to?

absolutely, this move by the EU to ban privacy coins has nothing to do with money laundering,
it's just the go to excuse to ban something which gives us control over our property.

and in the mean time we have the corrupt Christine Lagarde ^{head of the EU Central Bank}
able to side step any accountability for her shady dealings in the past and still hold one of
the top institutional positions in the world.

[davis196]

The European clerks are doing something in order to justify their salaries and their pointless jobs.
It's funny how those news about banning something related to crypto happen always, when there is a price crash, bear market, big crypto company scamming their investors, bankrupts, etc. You won't read such crypto news, when the crypto market is bullish and the investors are making money. The Privacy coins might be banned from crypto exchanges, but this won't stop the regular crypto users to use them.
I don't know how the authorities would be able to track the transactions of a privacy coin and catch the people, who are transacting.

[Lucius]

I don't know how the authorities would be able to track the transactions of a privacy coin and catch the people, who are transacting.

They cannot forbid anyone from doing a private transaction, it is impossible to prevent it. What they can do is to forbid all CEXs to list such coins and thus prevent as many potential users as possible from getting possession of them. With such measures, they certainly want to reduce the share of such transactions and direct as many users as possible to use those cryptocurrencies that can be monitored.

Of course, this should not be interpreted as a friendly attitude towards Bitcoin, because everything that is not under the direct control of the ECB is not acceptable and will not be encouraged by legislators and politicians.

[justdimin]

The European clerks are doing something in order to justify their salaries and their pointless jobs.
It's funny how those news about banning something related to crypto happen always, when there is a price crash, bear market, big crypto company scamming their investors, bankrupts, etc. You won't read such crypto news, when the crypto market is bullish and the investors are making money. The Privacy coins might be banned from crypto exchanges, but this won't stop the regular crypto users to use them.
I don't know how the authorities would be able to track the transactions of a privacy coin and catch the people, who are transacting.

That is quite the explanation for half of all the lawyers and politicians in the world. They end up working towards making sure that they look like they work, and end up with some sort of result, even if they fail, they looked like they worked for it and they just failed, and they would prefer to succeed as well.

So in this case, it is about crypto and privacy coins, as we all know they are not a big deal, they are not even high up there in the rankings anymore, not many people use it, so spending resources on making sure they are banned would be waste of resources, and yet they still do it. Because of exact reason you said, to make sure they look like they deserve their salaries.

[PrivacyG]

The question is - if the entire financial system is limited by laws - how will you use this crypto currency? While it has not been banned, it can be used even more or less. But as soon as it becomes illegal, it will not be a currency, but a "virtual hemorrhoid"

When EU decides to ban Privacy Coins, we will have to endure a big roller coaster of choices directly affecting Bitcoin and the market as a whole.  After Tornado Cash and Monero, their next target is likely Lightning Network of which Privacy is not a purpose but a feature.

Their check list is already becoming shorter.  They checked the big Coin Join provider off their list.  Tornado Cash as well.  How many checks left until we can call it a win for the European Union?

Not just Monero and other 'Privacy Coins' will be affected.  Everything will be.

Only one solution stands still.  It is Peer to Peer.  The financial system may be limited by laws.  But if rights get new limits, the tendency of our community will be to not respect the new limit.  I for sure will not.  I rather live homeless than a life of continuous surveillance.

I will stop using Monero and Bitcoin when the European Union finally admits the Banking system is one of the most criminal and Euro is used along the Dollar more often in crime than any other type of Currency.  In other words.  Never.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[DrBeer]

I don't know how the authorities would be able to track the transactions of a privacy coin and catch the people, who are transacting.

They cannot forbid anyone from doing a private transaction, it is impossible to prevent it. What they can do is to forbid all CEXs to list such coins and thus prevent as many potential users as possible from getting possession of them. With such measures, they certainly want to reduce the share of such transactions and direct as many users as possible to use those cryptocurrencies that can be monitored.

Of course, this should not be interpreted as a friendly attitude towards Bitcoin, because everything that is not under the direct control of the ECB is not acceptable and will not be encouraged by legislators and politicians.

You do not quite understand what the ban on "anonymous cryptocurrencies" is. Tracking transactions, in systems where this is not possible - immediately discarded - this is stupid. And maybe we don't know everything, maybe there are undocumented features, "special" nodes, etc.
But it doesn't matter anymore. The ban will affect exchanges, exchangers and other regulated nodes that can ensure the interaction of anonymous coins with the fiat world. Now crypto is a "parallel universe", and people need fiat currency to satisfy 99% of their needs. A ban on accepting payments and transactions will simply be introduced, with wild fines, and not a single bank, exchange, exchanger, private shop will dare to violate this. Moreover, we know that they are trying to use cryptocurrencies to circumvent sanctions. In general, this is now the most urgent problem for one country, an international terrorist. But, the EU has introduced CRIMINAL liability for circumventing sanctions, and assisting in circumventing sanctions. Do you understand what problems await those who dare to violate? Maybe someone will take a risk, but for very big money, which the terrorist country has less and less, due to the loss of the hydrocarbon market and the arms market .... In a word, they will not deal with transactions, but simply with a ban and detection of its violations.

[goldkingcoiner]

Oh boo hoo! The EU is banning privacy coins. And?

Since when has the EU or anyone else ever been able to ban any kind of crypto coins? Name me one time that worked, even with shitcoins? It never has been able to ban anything. Not even China can ban crypto. There is always a work-around for coiners.

The truth is that the governments of the world are powerless against decentralization because they are overwhelmed by the sheer numbers.

Their bans mean nothing.

[o48o]

If money laundering are their main motivation behind this, then they will have to force (FIAT) Banks to close their doors. Most money laundering are still being done through the Banking system. 

Yes, "Privacy" coins offer huge opportunities for people to use it for criminal activities, but is the same not applicable to cash? How many drug transactions on the street are done with "Privacy" coins, compared to cash.... how does that cash get into the financial system? (Registered businesses are used to launder money through the Banking system) 

You are only paying attention to this as travel rule affects to Crypto too. Of course it will affect to all banks as well when the whole point is to make money laundering more difficult.
This is just a part of targeted update for Virtual Asset Service Providers (VASPs), but honestly, everyone who paid attention to fatf saw this coming years ago as privacy coins were against fatf travel rule.

[Gyfts]

Banning the aforementioned alts would probably make Bitcoin more attractive, but I don't see any benefit in eliminating the competition through government brute force. First it's Dash, Monero, then it might be a blanket ban on all crypto's for the next arbitrary reason. Stopping money laundering by banning privacy coins seems like a palatable excuse but I'm curious as to how much the EU estimates money laundering to be taking place via crypto. Blockchains aren't even remotely close to being security risk.

Given the rise of actual violence with war, it's a bit laughable that their concerns lie with crypto.

[Smartprofit]

So will the privacy coin disappear like a whisper on the wind? Reports that the EU will move to ban them come with a few hitches. The ban will not officially take effect until a proper regulatory framework around cryptocurrencies has been established by the EU. I'm sure that the privacy coin is here to stay.

I love reading science fiction novels about our future.

In particular, I enjoy reading cyberpunk novels with great pleasure. All of these novels feature anonymous and confidential currency. The heroes of the novel are hiding from mafia persecution (for example, the yakuza or triads) and they need special untraceable anonymous money.

From this we can conclude that the need for cryptocurrencies like Monero (XMR) is not going anywhere.

And a ban from the European Union will not be able to lead to the disappearance of the circulation of such confidential cryptocurrencies.

I'll upset you a little
Ok, for fantastic works - it's all great! But in reality... Let's give an example. You and I, those same heroes of a fantastic work. We come to the conclusion that we need our own currency. Let it be candy wrappers Ok, so we decided. We collected, bought all the candy wrappers in the country for fiat money, the financial system is ready. And here is the most subtle point - we do not have an ordinary currency. I need a bottle of mineral water tomorrow. I go to the store and .... I leave without shopping. The only one who might sell me water for candy wrappers is you. But your water supply is not eternal, and besides candy wrappers, there is also no other money. I hope the problem is clear - the lack of a global infrastructure that will allow them to be easily, or acceptably difficult, exchanged for products of regular consumption. The question is - if the entire financial system is limited by laws - how will you use this crypto currency? While it has not been banned, it can be used even more or less. But as soon as it becomes illegal, it will not be a currency, but a "virtual hemorrhoid"

Under capitalism, any human need will be satisfied for money. 

This business is the satisfaction of human needs... 

Suppose there is a need to exchange confidential currency for official currency.  If there are at least the beginnings of capitalist relations in society, then this need will be satisfied and such an exchange will be created.  Currently, the governments of most states are planning to create and implement a concentration camp digital currency (CBDC). 

But even in a digital concentration camp there will be a black market for goods and services, circulation of Monero and illegal exchange of Monero for CBDC. 

This is due to the fact that government officials also want to get rich, officials are not angels, but ordinary people.

[DrBeer]

If money laundering are their main motivation behind this, then they will have to force (FIAT) Banks to close their doors. Most money laundering are still being done through the Banking system. 

Yes, "Privacy" coins offer huge opportunities for people to use it for criminal activities, but is the same not applicable to cash? How many drug transactions on the street are done with "Privacy" coins, compared to cash.... how does that cash get into the financial system? (Registered businesses are used to launder money through the Banking system) 

That is why the United States is proposing the creation of an international financial intelligence agency, which exists in the United States and effectively fights corruption. What they do not really want, for example in the EU (not all, but some resist). Corruption through cash, if we talk about BIG corruption, is a complex scheme. In developed countries, it is more common - stocks, accounts in the EU and other assets that are more difficult for US financial intelligence to check Fiat corruption is more common in third world countries with totalitarian regimes, drug dealers, terrorist regimes ... North Korea, Sudan, Russia, Colombian drug mafia - this is their "horse".
But with all this, I will say that the world is on the path of abandoning cash. First, fiat money is expensive and unsafe. Secondly, the corruption that you are talking about and the introduction of digital currency is a very powerful blow to corruption schemes, because. it will not be possible to imperceptibly make any financial movements.

[darewaller]

Banning the aforementioned alts would probably make Bitcoin more attractive, but I don't see any benefit in eliminating the competition through government brute force. First it's Dash, Monero, then it might be a blanket ban on all crypto's for the next arbitrary reason. Stopping money laundering by banning privacy coins seems like a palatable excuse but I'm curious as to how much the EU estimates money laundering to be taking place via crypto. Blockchains aren't even remotely close to being security risk.

Given the rise of actual violence with war, it's a bit laughable that their concerns lie with crypto.

I would guess that there is a good level of reason for them to ban privacy ones yet promote the regular ones. Bitcoin and monero are not the same thing. I understand that they can ban anything, but with that logic they could also ban all the gasoline cars, and only electric ones will be allowed for the future, is that possible? Sure, would it be done in a way it doesn't hurt everyone? No.

This is why what they are capable of doing within their rights, and what they will do are not the same things. Privacy coins are a whole another type of breed compared to everything else, and I believe while bitcoin will get more attention in the future, privacy could be banned and it's understandable.

[kryptqnick]

I haven't used cryptos with private blockchains and I don't think that banning them will lead to eventually banning all cryptos. Also, the EU is just a part of the world, and others might not follow. However, I believe strong research must be conducted before making such decisions. It should be investigated whether the amount of illicit activities has increased over time, whether this increase can be attributed to cryptocurrencies and what part of it is done using private blockchains (and which ones). Then assessments must be made to determine if the ban is going to significantly decrease illicit actions or if criminals would simply switch to something else. Bans of currencies are limiting the freedom of people, so such limitations better be very well-justified.

[Argoo]

I already expect many country will ban privacy coins since Coinbase already delist privacy coins from few years ago.

Why would you expect them to ban these private coins, if you really want to use decentralized coins to protect your privacy then you should also support the existence of private coins private? Once they have succeeded in banning privacy coins like XMR, Zcash then most likely they will also find a way to ban decentralized coins like bitcoin because they want a centralized and visible world. They are trying step by step to control this market.

It is absolutely logical that states will gradually tighten the circulation of anonymous coins and coins with a high level of privacy, such as Monero, ZCash and others, up to their complete ban. Japan was the first to do this back in April 2017. The level of regulation of privacy and anonymity coins can be different. This may include limiting the amount of transactions that can be carried out without going through the KYC procedure, and requiring full identification when exchanging such coins for fiat. Of course, states and their governments will not be indifferent to transactions where neither the recipient, nor the sender, nor the purpose of the payment is known. This poses a certain security threat to the state itself. It’s already good that states in general allow cryptocurrencies to circulate on their territory, but want to regulate the conditions for their circulation.

[Lubang Bawah]

Suspicion that cryptocurrencies is a place for financial crime indeed massively, many haters always say that cryptocurrencies are used for illegal transactions such as purchases of weapons, drugs, money laundering and so on, especially a few years ago many projects carry the concept of coin privacy that made the coins difficult traced.