Are the Whales Control bitcoin price?

[Not your key not your BTC]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

[1714792578]

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[1714792578]

1714792578

[mk4]

but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?

A "whale" can move the markets to a certain extent, but it doesn't give them overall control over the markets. Take note that even "whales" that attempt to manipulate markets can also lose money.

Also, no "whale" owns 51% of the total supply. Most of the wallets with huge bitcoin holdings(though definitely nothing close to 51%) are exchange cold wallets.

if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Bitcoin is proof of work, not proof of stake. So even if a single person held a huge chunk of Bitcoin, that wouldn't give him special powers over the protocol.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/proof-stake-pos.asp

[franky1]

price discovery has nothing much to do about the so far 19m supply
  2012 had 11m supply
  2022 has 19m supply. yet more supply did not mean less price
  (some believe scarcity/supply drives price the most)

price discovery has nothing much to with the average 500k coins in a exchange custody per average exchange of high public awareness
   coins sat in custody(cex) or in self custody private key do not set prices

what does change prices is only balance on active market orderbooks
   and its only the currently processing order price that matters

looking at the average order yield
in 2012 was 1btc-1000btc per order
in 2022 is 0.001btc-1btc per order

when there is lack of buyers wanting to pay more fiat for a decimal allotment of btc. the top of the market is reached
when there is lack of sellers giving away more decimals for an allotment of fiat. the bottom of a market is reached.

what you find out is at the bottom of the market a seller would rather hand out less decimals. and its this decision that causes prices to move volitally and quickly to become new ATH

imagine buyers for a whole year only trade in say $400 amounts
at start of 2020 they got 0.04btc (1btc=$10k)
sellers simply only offered 0.039btc (1btc=$10.256k)
                                       0.03btc (1btc=$13.33k)
                                       ...
                                       0.01btc (1btc=$40k)

those holding alot of btc are not going to be stupid and sell coins for less the the most efficient mining costs on the planet(the cheapest way to acquire bitcoin) by throwing alot of coin into a market without caring about price

however giving out less coin to a market can cause alot of market rise without needing the buyer to spend more

[Z-tight]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?

Nobody or group of people can own more than half of the BTC circulating supply, whales can try to manipulate the price of BTC by moving their coins in and out of exchanges, but that kind of manipulation can't last for too long, and because it is only for a short time it cannot be called 'control', nobody controls anything in the BTC network.

if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Decentralization would perish if a mischievous miner or pool own and controls 51% of the hash rate, and not depending how much BTC one owns, owning 51% of the hah rate will give the miner or pool the power to do so much damage to the network which will affect decentralization. But a 51% attack is never likely to happen.

[alexandr1115]

I think there are definitely those who buy Bitcoin in very large volumes! it's hard to say how accurately they are called whales, dolphins or small fish, but there is definitely a lot of money here! it's hard to say how accurately they are called whales, dolphins or small fish, but there are definitely those who enter the market in large volumes.

[Findingnemo]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Whales may own more than 51% too but they can never control the price, all they can do is manipulation like buying few thousands BTC for higher rate than actual market rate which lets the price to swing around the region for a while but the whale is actually losing money when buying for high price but they can make it up too by dumping when the market is high.

So they can manipulate not complete control which both different when it comes to intensity level.

[Merit.s]

I think there are definitely those who buy Bitcoin in very large volumes! it's hard to say how accurately they are called whales, dolphins or small fish, but there is definitely a lot of money here! it's hard to say how accurately they are called whales, dolphins or small fish, but there are definitely those who enter the market in large volumes.

The whales control BTC price because of their huge investment in btc,so the price demands on the whales for it to go up and down. Whales can't own upto 51% of BTC,if not it is going to mess the purpose of BTC which is decentralized system,they can own like 10-15%. That's is why they can control the price at that moment because if they choose to sell,the price drops and if they are buying more to their investment it can lead to increase in BTC price.

[Fullcoinese]

if there is Bitcoin ownership of that size by one person, of course, it can easily move or monopolize the market. but the biggest ownership I think belongs to the exchange wallet. and of course, it does not belong to one person.
for now, I believe that no one can control the market price. even if it's a pope with the largest current holdings. the market only responds when a large amount of Bitcoin from the wallet is transferred to the exchange. and that raises sentiment toward market prices.

[boyptc]

Whales no doubt has the influence to move an inch of the market but they can't have that whole control on it. It will be a huge expenditure to them if they want to have that much control to the market.

So, if calculating the whole 51% of bitcoin based on the current of supply that it has got in circulation. Then, that will be around 9,806,694 BTCitcoins. I don't think someone has that.

Calculation:

Current supply in circulation based on coinmarketcap.com = 19,228,812 * 51%(0.51) = 9,806,694BTC

Satoshi's holdings are even estimated just around 1M of bitcoins.

[Solosanz]

Assuming there's a whales own 51% of total Bitcoin supply, it doesn't mean decentralization not exist anymore because those whales will hold their Bitcoin and not sell it. It make Bitcoin circulation become less and if the demand is same, it will boost Bitcoin price since it's make Bitcoin scarcer. That's similar like people who lost their private key, no one can withdraw the coins, actually it make Bitcoin price more valuable.

Satoshi's holdings are even estimated just around 1M of bitcoins.

It's just a speculation, there's no proof if Satoshi is really hold that's coins.

[LittleBitFunny]

Assuming there's a whales own 51% of total Bitcoin supply, it doesn't mean decentralization not exist anymore because those whales will hold their Bitcoin and not sell it. It make Bitcoin circulation become less and if the demand is same, it will boost Bitcoin price since it's make Bitcoin scarcer. That's similar like people who lost their private key, no one can withdraw the coins, actually it make Bitcoin price more valuable.

What makes you sure they'll hold those bitcoins and not sell them? We're all here for the money and whales just like us. If they can control half of the bitcoins, then bitcoin is no longer decentralized, and it will be easy for them to manipulate the bitcoin price in their favor.
If that happens, it will jeopardize the market as a whole rather than something good to boost the market. Like we're talking about ETH becoming so centralized because sharks largely hold it.
Currently, despite not owning 51% of the total supply, some whales can still manipulate the price of bitcoin but that may not last long but enough for them to make a profit.

[Husires]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

it is POW crypto not POS, you mean hashrate?!
There is no absolute decentralization, there is centralization and decentralization and between them there are currencies, Bitcoin is more decentralized than all currencies, and so on.
As for the effect, if it is in the hash rate, more people can join or stop using the network, but it will affect the currency.

[buwaytress]

What's your definition of decentralisation? If it's concentration of supply in a few, then a shitcoin I could create right now and airdrop to 100 million active wallets so no single holder has even 0.001% of supply would be decentralised?

Like Husires says, there is no absolutes, only relatives. And you really would have a hard time finding a less centralised coin in any aspect.

[Dunamisx]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

The whales alone are not the ones that determines the market since they only have the bitcoin in large amount deposited in their wallets, what they do is to hodl and sell when they needed to, also consider the large numbers of whales we have distributed across the world, they are many and the rate at which each of them hodl is different from each other, but the daily transactions we made in relation to the demand and supply of the available bitcoin determines the price push and some certain occasions that marks events with bitcoin.

[Yatsan]

They don't entirely control Bitcoin's market value but definitely, they investment movement will create a 'wave' motion in the market either upward or downward price movement. If their actions affect the market price, then doesn't that mean they control the market price? Still a no. simply because that effect is just temporary not unless small investors would follow their movement or if they would ride with the wave which will make the wave to last longer, which happens in this industry a lot. Such thing can be explained by the concept of market volatility itself as well as the relationship of price and demand. So what controls the market price of cryptos? Demand, and that includes the whole community not only whales.

[joniboini]

but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

If by decentralization you mean the ability to push the price down by dumping the coins on the market, you don't need to own 51% of the total supply to do it, considering the market liquidity is not even that deep. I think you have to separate between price movement and coin distribution to some extent if you want to talk about market manipulation. You also need to specify what kind of decentralization are you talking about since the network is definitely not controlled by some whales.

Back to market manipulation. Even if you only control 5% of the coins but the market is not that liquid, you can still manipulate the price to your own liking. I sold some shitcoin in the past, and the price move nearly 50% after I did that. If the volume/demand is high, that might not happen. Can this happen to Bitcoin? Probably. Even if it does, as long as the network is still fine, you should not worry too much. Unless of course what you really focused on is the price and you want to get profits asap

[fuguebtc]

Bitcoin price depends on many factors, such as demand or world economic factors that also affect bitcoin price and whales can still manipulate bitcoin prices but they won't last but only for a specific time.

The total market capitalization of the entire market has not exceeded 1 trillion dollars, it is smaller than the capitalization of apple or microsoft companies, it can be said that bitcoin is still very small, so manipulation is inevitable.

Currently, we have no regulations, so the big guys will take advantage of this loophole to manipulate the market, so many people think that chart analysis is not effective.

[boyptc]

Satoshi's holdings are even estimated just around 1M of bitcoins.

It's just a speculation, there's no proof if Satoshi is really hold that's coins.

Yeah, it's said that it's around on that quantity and it's just a rough estimation. Whether it's for real or not, one thing for sure is that there have been burned bitcoins forever although that's not the narrative.

But, the thought of OP about whales having that much of 51% of total supply of bitcoin which I've given the estimation on how many a whale should have to have that percentage of holding which is unlikely.

[JohnBitCo]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

For sure, the whales will have money to buy bitcoin and anyone with money can buy the majority of the coins but it is different from fiat whales.
In the fiat system, the whales (the government themselves) can print as much money and keep on increasing their wealth while when it comes to the bitcoin whales they can't produce it, they need to buy bitcoin and hence its value is ever increasing.

[rhomelmabini]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Lot of talks before already and no way these whales could control the Bitcoin price unless they really are that many. I think there's a possibility to be controlled if it wasn't decentralized, since it's not then bad luck for those who want to control and just thinking of monopolizing it.

[Pmalek]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas.

What is valas? Is that some non-English term for fiat and traditional currencies or what are we talking about?

So even if a single person held a huge chunk of Bitcoin, that wouldn't give him special powers over the protocol.

I think that what OP was asking with this part is whether owning a huge chunk of Bitcoin would give that individual enough power to move prices according to their will. The short answer is no. The long answer is that collusions are certainly possible if it suits the interests of all involved parties, particularly if that interest is making even more money.

But a few whales can't do much even if they had ulterior motives. You would need to create a domino effect where your actions cause a significant part of the holders to either dump or buy more if you want the market to go a certain direction. It's a bit easier If you have big media behind your back that scares the unknowing population with bitcoin bans, the death of bitcoin, strict regulation, and more harmful stories. 

[Kakmakr]

Well, this is a debate with no certain answer... because only a few people can answer that. If you had the trading information of all the Exchanges and you can link the personal information with the bitcoins that are traded, then you will be able to give a correct answer.

Most regulated Exchanges have that information, but they do not divulge that personal information to the public. The average price are determined by the trading price on bigger Exchanges, where these Whales are playing.  

[ethereumhunter]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

For now, the whales cannot control the price of bitcoin, even though they own 51% of bitcoin because the current price of bitcoin is already very high. But if it was a few years ago when bitcoin prices were low, they could still do it. Today, because so many people know about bitcoin and take part in the search for profits, the price can go anywhere. In addition, the whales may currently remain focused on making profits and there may also be some who spread negative news to panic people so they are frightened and sell their bitcoins.

[Woodie]

With bitcoin bordered around speculation and the herd mentality that most of us have because of trying to ride the wave of whatever is thrown to us does point in the direction of whales having that influence.

Whales being the big guys of the markets if they choose to buy a lumpsome of coins the charts do equally show this big green candle which gives the general direction the market will be taking and everyone else will want to be buying at his point...I guess price does  follow the whales.

[Antonas1]

What is valas? Is that some non-English term for fiat and traditional currencies or what are we talking about?

Yes, it's Indonesian. Valas is the short version of Valuta Asing which in English means Foreign Exchange, and is commonly known as Forex.
Check: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/valas.

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

This thread is actually pretty much the same as fennic's thread: Why We People Cannot Think Like Whales. The whale (as you call it) will not sacrifice his money or bitcoins just to control the price. But they really love people who think like that.

I don't think users with huge amounts of Bitcoin (you call them Whales) play Bitcoin price with theirs; it's too risky. But they announce their investment amount and then make statements in the media to control people's minds. So actually those people are stuck with their own thoughts, with their speculations, and with the graphic analysis they make.

[Leviathan.007]

A whale cannot control the bitcoin price or change anything by itself because even if they sell or buy a huge amount of bitcoins it still will affect the market for a short time and in the long term even if some other whales do the same thing still they cannot change lots of things because the whale does not own a big share of the market and consider the information we have from bitcoin wallets they won't be able to do such thing.

[Ziskinberg]

Well, this is a debate with no certain answer... because only a few people can answer that. If you had the trading information of all the Exchanges and you can link the personal information with the bitcoins that are traded, then you will be able to give a correct answer.

Because usually, we assume that whales can manipulate the market and in fact, it was right. They can move the market using their money, that's their power. However, it was not enough to control everything in the market for they are not just the ones who could influence it as there are a lot of factors that can change the direction of the price trend.

Most regulated Exchanges have that information, but they do not divulge that personal information to the public. The average price are determined by the trading price on bigger Exchanges, where these Whales are playing.  

We can't urge them to give any information.
It is privacy and we indeed respect it.

[usekevin]

The whale had a full control over the price of the bitcoin. Whales are the people who come to the market before the new traders get into the website,So they will have huge money as compared to normal people in terms of bitcoin.So they sell when the market is green,the green market will give profit to the traders and the whales the most.Whales use both the chances to get profit by the long term holding bitcoin as compared to normal margin traders.

[davis196]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

You should learn more about Bitcoin.
Manipulating market prices is one thing, performing a 51% attack over the Bitcoin Core blockchain is another thing(which has nothing to do with the first thing). A successful 51% attack will crash the Bitcoin price down to a few pennies. Perhaps this is what you mean by "control over the Bitcoin price".
Saying that Bitcoin has nothing to do with banks and stocks is partially true. From a financial point of view, Bitcoin actually has something to do with stocks. Both Bitcoin and stocks are financial assets, both are being traded on the financial markets(crypto markets are financial markets after all), both have supply and demand, both have market price/value.

[Mauser]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Every buy and every sell order is going to influence the Bitcoin price. The larger the orders the large the price impact, that is why whales can definitely influence the price in their favour to a certain extent. This doesn't mean that decentralisation doesn't exit. Bitcoin is a decentralised network that doesn't rely on one main framework controlling everything. When you speak of the "whales" it sounds a bit like it's a group of people that all work together, this is obviously not the case. I think there is a difference between whales from North America, Asia or even Europe. They all are living in different currency regions and will trade on their own personal needs. In my opinion it's not only the whales, but also the HODL investors who are influencing the Bitcoin price heavily. Without the strong HODL community not giving into the selling pressure the price of Bitcoins would have dropped much lower than it did this year.   

[Minecache]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

For now, the whales cannot control the price of bitcoin, even though they own 51% of bitcoin because the current price of bitcoin is already very high. But if it was a few years ago when bitcoin prices were low, they could still do it. Today, because so many people know about bitcoin and take part in the search for profits, the price can go anywhere. In addition, the whales may currently remain focused on making profits and there may also be some who spread negative news to panic people so they are frightened and sell their bitcoins.

The current bitcoin price is high, but if you compare bitcoin to gold, it is very small, the total bitcoin market capitalization is only close to 400 billion USD, and the gold market is more than 11 trillion. It can be seen that bitcoin is very small compared to the rest of the financial market, so manipulation is inevitable and if someone owns 51% of bitcoin, they can do whatever they want, not just control the price.

Sharks manipulate the bitcoin price in order to make profit, that's the way the sharks play.

[tjtonmoy]

Many will have a different opinion on this. But everyone will agree on one thing. BTC can not be fully controlled by one person, even if he owns 51% of the total supply.
To me, one person (a whale) can not have acquired 51% of the total supply. There are multiple whales who are holding a big amount, and that's not a lie.
But BTC being untraceable, you can never be sure who are those holders. You may know few, but there's always those who stays in the shadow. Waiting for the opportunity.
If the whales makes any move, they are willing to buy or sell, keeping the balance between market movements.
It is only possible if one person can acquire 51% or more and decided to manipulate the market. Then among other 49% holders, some will see this as an opportunity to fill their bags and hold again.
market manipulations can be seen in many small crypto platform which is controlled by whales. The pyramid scheme. But for BTC that's nearly not possible.
Maybe one day, but not today.

[jokers10]

For now, the whales cannot control the price of bitcoin, even though they own 51% of bitcoin because the current price of bitcoin is already very high. But if it was a few years ago when bitcoin prices were low, they could still do it. Today, because so many people know about bitcoin and take part in the search for profits, the price can go anywhere. In addition, the whales may currently remain focused on making profits and there may also be some who spread negative news to panic people so they are frightened and sell their bitcoins.

Control can be either absolute or relative, so whales don't need to do all market transactions by their own. It is about forming a wave: you need to have enough assets to makes others to believe trend is changed to which you need, media will help to strengthen that trend and you'll get your profits after that. The bigger market the bigger profits.

[Adbitco]

When talking of whales is about series of them and this doesn't relatively mean a single holder could do that and from what I understand it would be very hard for a single holder to have about 51 percentage of bitcoin. Then let say about market price or increase, this may not possibly occur as the demand is more than the supply it would be very difficult for bitcoin market or price to dump despite holding 50 to 51 percent of the total supply instead would increased potentially.

[Piesel]

Since the Bitcoin network is on the proof of work algorithm it becomes impossible for a few sets of holders call whales to take control, but the whales can also impact the market a bit their can't force the market to a halt as long as proof of work is concern miners are the engine room and as long as the is a minner with the highest harse rat to process transactions won't the Bitcoin network there will be reward so there is not sole controller of the market.

[crunck]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Many people still think that the bitcoin price today is mainly determined by supply and demand, it is true that the price of bitcoin is also determined by supply and demand, but most of the market is being manipulated, not determined by demand. A market without any regulations would be an extremely favorable place for whales to roam. It only takes 1 Fuds to spread and the price of bitcoin fluctuates unpredictably, but many people still believe that the market works on demand.

[franky1]

Many will have a different opinion on this. But everyone will agree on one thing. BTC can not be fully controlled by one person, even if he owns 51% of the total supply.
To me, one person (a whale) can not have acquired 51% of the total supply.

ok lets tin foil worse case.
(excluding satoshi stash plus possible lost/locked coins ~18m circulation left)

lets use DCG as a example that has fingers in many exchanges
https://dcg.co/portfolio/
coinbase says (sept 30th 2022) ~2m coins
so thats 11% of circulation of coins in just 1 exchange

add in kraken and other exchanges in the portfolio. the DCG does have a substantial heap of coin at its fingertips
ill let you guys calculates the reserves of all those listed in portfolio

[The Cryptovator]

First and probably most important, I want to emphasize that control and influence are not equated. Nobody can control Bitcoin's price, and if it could, it wouldn't have dropped to its current level. When whales are holding a bag, they all want to be pushed. However, they can sometimes influence the market through manipulation. It does not last long and is not always under control. It is decentralized and will remain so in the future.

[Casdinyard]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

The whales of the market certainly have some agency over the market outcomes and that's why they are mostly frowned upon. They can pump and gas an altcoin to the stratosphere and dump it all of a sudden in the name of profit. A lot of projects with good backgrounds and multiple applications that could've been very useful to bitcoin and the cryptocurrency industry as a whole died down because of the intervention of whales. They'd artificially inflate the price and drop it when they think the time is right. Although in the case of bitcoin it is widely different. Its decentralized nature and its scarce supply makes it so that no one fully controls the price of the cryptocurrency. Although bagholders do exist and they have hefty amounts of bitcoin on their vaults, it's not so affecting that their movements would be detrimental to bitcoin's future.

[borovichok]

First and probably most important, I want to emphasize that control and influence are not equated. Nobody can control Bitcoin's price, and if it could, it wouldn't have dropped to its current level. When whales are holding a bag, they all want to be pushed. However, they can sometimes influence the market through manipulation. It does not last long and is not always under control. It is decentralized and will remain so in the future.

Bitcoin is very presentable and can be easily traded therefore anyone with a well proper information about it can even noticed. There are numerous ways these whales influence the market either buying in bulk or selling in bulk inother to entrapped surviving traders and investors in the space. Whales are top spot and future traders in the market and they're always available to make good use of  solid chances given in the space. It's presently in dip but there's every tendency that it will pump, we should also give listening ears to the regular crypto news which always pop out daily.

[Agbe]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Yes nobody can control it likewise the whales but the whales influence the price of bitcoin. The whales can not control your wallet and that is the decentralized exchange system we are talking about on bitcoin. They can only influence the price not the coin. So bitcoin is still decentralized in all time. Why it is decentralized  because of the p2p nature of bitcoin.

[AmoreJaz]

First and probably most important, I want to emphasize that control and influence are not equated. Nobody can control Bitcoin's price, and if it could, it wouldn't have dropped to its current level. When whales are holding a bag, they all want to be pushed. However, they can sometimes influence the market through manipulation. It does not last long and is not always under control. It is decentralized and will remain so in the future.

i am on this one. no one can control the btc market as it is decentralised. even though there are whales, you can't expect them to talk with each other and agree when do they want to move the price in the market. so yes, no one has the capability to have the upper hand in this market. this question though was asked over and over but don't know why people are thinking that whales have big influence in this market. even the biggest btc holder can only make a dent, as you said, they may create a certain movement but won't sustain their influence.

[n0ne]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Yes nobody can control it likewise the whales but the whales influence the price of bitcoin. The whales can not control your wallet and that is the decentralized exchange system we are talking about on bitcoin. They can only influence the price not the coin. So bitcoin is still decentralized in all time. Why it is decentralized  because of the p2p nature of bitcoin.

Control over bitcoin is a myth. In the past it happens when whales in the market make some movement of funds. This creates panic among the common people and when the users start reacting to it, market fluctuates. This gets used by the whales. This is how market movements happened in the past. Now people are well aware of the market and doesn't react to whale moves. This shows Whales were able to make some movement, but that doesn't mean control over the market.

[zzzbitzzz]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

There is no benefit for the "big" whales to move the price. Usually, market manipulation is done this way:

Buying the asset and advertising to retails to buy at the same time, the "whale"  will drive the initial stage of the pumping, then it is the market ( retails ) that keeps pushing the price up. Then whale sell ( dump ) the assert to take profit. Or do the opposite:

Selling the assert and make the publich think the same way and selling as well. Then buy the asset back and pump the price again.

However, in Bitcoin, it is very hard to do the important part: advertising to retails. It may work in alt coints, such as SOL, it will never work with Bitcoin where there is no advertising department at all

[Kiresiura]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Bitcoin price depends on many factors. Because bitcoin is decentralized, no one can control the btc market, even if they own 51% of bitcoin, although it is impossible for someone to own half of the circulating supply. Whales can try to manipulate the price by trading bitcoin, but they can never control the price of bitcoin.

[TungTresa]

I'll say a baseless but true feeling that I think someone or an institution is controlling the bitcoin price.

[worle1bm]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

You mean half of the supply of bitcoin owned by a single whale? That's not possible because it will take billion of dollars as investment and moreover they can manipulate the prices but the external forces of demand and supply will determine the actual prices.Bitcoin remains decentralised in this manner also as you can see there are lot of whales with thousands of btc in their wallets but can they control prices single handily? No but they can try to create pump dump situations with the amount of coins they are holding as we generally see in the market.

[LogitechMouse]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Don't think the whales like they are the Gods when it comes to investing where they can do what they want to do because they have all the money to do it.

Whales can't control the price of Bitcoin, or should I say, they can control but there is a limit into it unlike altcoins where most of the time, low market cap coins are the ones that are being pumped and dumped.

Regarding whales owning 51% of the Bitcoin, it will not happen because Bitcoin has been spread out towards many exchanges and many people. It's been distributed towards many investors, so I don't think that they have a chance to own 51% of the total circulating supply.

[Tommiewill]

If whales put all their money in bitcoin or took it all out it might drive the price of bitcoin, but they certainly won't do it. Otherwise, many people will stare at them. He didn't dare to make too many moves.

[llinazulrq]

Whales may want to control prices, but it won't be easy. I feel that if it is manipulated, then the point of decentralization is gone. When it is no longer decentralized, some people who entered the market for Bitcoin will be disappointed and exit the market.

[Llhxsdr]

They can buy in large quantities to cause price fluctuations, but the value of Bitcoin in the market is uncontrollable. They may affect the market but cannot control the market.

[tjtonmoy]

lets use DCG as a example that has fingers in many exchanges
https://dcg.co/portfolio/
coinbase says (sept 30th 2022) ~2m coins
so thats 11% of circulation of coins in just 1 exchange

I am not disagreeing on this fact that this will happen someday. As I mentioned, Different people will have different thoughts on this.
Single exchanges can have millions of cryptos in their hand, but they are owned by multiple persons. As far as I know, a well-developed and established platform would try to do such a thing.
They again, Not your key, not your coin.
So there will always be a chance of that happening. But the possibilities are thin. That's just what I was trying to say.

[Oasisman]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Obviously, nobody owns 50% of Bitcoin in the current circulation. I know you're referring to all the whales in general, owning about half of Bitcoin current supply. The question is, are they all have the same mindset? Do they trust each other? It is for sure, some of them will take advantage of the face that they can potentially move the market whichever direction they want it. So, we don't have to worry about whales trying to manipulate the market, because obviously none of them can, as they are also trying to make money out of the other whales and retail investors. Just hold you BTC down, wait for the right time to sell as your target, and just watch how the whales play with some huge amount of money involved in crypto market.

[xSkylarx]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

First, there are no whales owning 51% of bitcoin, so you shouldn't be scared. Second, they cant still control bitcoin since it is already decentralized. No one can touch it, only its price. That massive holding can influence the price or the market, but to days date, no one owns it. Also, if there is one, that's only Satoshi. Also, if you are now thinking that those giant whales are talking to each other to control the price, it isn't impossible, but they are not doing it since they are not in that mindset.

[Artemis3]

To begin with how many bitcoins are in the market at any given time? Under 10%. Good luck burning your fortune to manipulate that. After you go bankrupt the other 90% may make their move, or not, since most people are holders for a good reason. Remember when a whale CEO threatened to destroy bitcoin just because his company was incapable to prevent a theft? He would have destroyed that company, not able to destroy Bitcoin, and not recover what was stolen. It took another whale to stop him...

Bitcoin has become world's money, it cannot be understood by the mindset of a country or even a group of countries, its for the entire world.

[coinerer]

Big whale investors can change the direction of the market but only temporarily.  But they do not control the entire market.  For example, when a whale investor invests a large amount in a coin, the price of that coin will immediately rise, and similarly, when the whale investor sells all the coins they hold together, it is normal to dump the price of that coin.  That's what happens

[|MINER|]

Big whale investors can change the direction of the market but only temporarily.  But they do not control the entire market.  For example, when a whale investor invests a large amount in a coin, the price of that coin will immediately rise, and similarly, when the whale investor sells all the coins they hold together, it is normal to dump the price of that coin.  That's what happens

Wel said, I think no one can touch the decentralized system of Bitcoin. But no one can control it's system but it's price can be controlled temporarily by investing as you said. If we look back to 2021 we will able to see that the market has been influenced several times, Many times they invest through signals to create this influence in the market, and after that they take their profit and loss were bearing by general people's.  I think these signal of those big whales is also a kind of trap.  Because even if they influence the market temporarily, and sometimes a good amount of loss is done during this temporary period.

[Maeve@]

In fact, I am also curious, if the assets are rich enough, can the price of Bitcoin be manipulated? So Bitcoin is still decentralized? If it happened, wouldn't the value of Bitcoin be determined by whales?

[TheUltraElite]

I'll say a baseless but true feeling that I think someone or an institution is controlling the bitcoin price.

The math here goes against that statement and you are free to believe what you feel is true, but if you can't back your belief with evidence you should be skeptical about it in the first place.

Thinking that some big thing is behind your loss is a common delusion that people have but the truth is that Bitcoin is decentralised and no one address controls to anything here.

If you dwell in trading for too long without the proper mindset these thoughts come in more commonly so keep a watch on your state while you trade.

[qwertyup23]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Given the amount of BTC in circulation and the ones left to be mined, the whales can definitely shift the price of BTC in the market. But remember that the impact that they can do is not as huge as you think compared to stocks. While whales may have majority of the BTCs in circulation, their overall effect is relatively small due to the remaining BTCs left to be mined out.

I guess if a whale has majority of the BTCs after every BTC has been mined out by the year 2078, then a whale can control and manipulate the price. But as per controlling the market, I doubt that they have much BTCs to the point that they can perfectly and absolutely control the market at their will.

[stomachgrowls]

In fact, I am also curious, if the assets are rich enough, can the price of Bitcoin be manipulated? So Bitcoin is still decentralized? If it happened, wouldn't the value of Bitcoin be determined by whales?

Hate to say but this is how market works on which there's always those people who do sit on the top which does have or acquired lots of money and coins for them to move out the market as they like.

Take a look into those traditional markets on which those big corporations,companies,institutions would really be always having the advantage since they could move the price on the way they wanted
but of course on non obvious ways since we do have certain laws in regarding to this which they wont really be letting themselves caught but this is for centralized markets
but for crypto? there's no way we could really be able to point out those fingers.

[kzkazu]

Bitcoin is decentralized and no one can control it. When a large number of bitcoin holders in the market make some money flows, the price may be affected, but not controlled.

[bitzizzix]

Whales are the largest mammals in the world and also the most powerful investors in this crypto market and have been around long before bitcoin or crypto existed, and whales play on people's emotions and use the opposite of what most people do and think.
when people are scared, they buy because most people are selling. And conversely when there is greed they sell because most people buy and a lot of people and small investors hate this but this is a part of this industry that is not going away.

[Riodarvg]

Whales are the largest mammals in the world and also the most powerful investors in this crypto market and have been around long before bitcoin or crypto existed, and whales play on people's emotions and use the opposite of what most people do and think.
when people are scared, they buy because most people are selling. And conversely when there is greed they sell because most people buy and a lot of people and small investors hate this but this is a part of this industry that is not going away.

Bitcoin price is determined by many factors, and whales alone still cannot control Bitcoin. When whales in the market move funds, it will cause panic to some investors. Whales will use people's emotions to change the direction of the market, and the market will fluctuate.

[Fara Chan]

Bitcoin is decentralized and no one can control it. When a large number of bitcoin holders in the market make some money flows, the price may be affected, but not controlled.

We also have to know that PAUS are not only personal but can be companies and associations, so they have the quality to influence the market, the financial strength they have can maximize investment until the market fluctuates.

The habit of manipulation occurs due to buying actions carried out by PAUS when market conditions are down, so that they enter a period of heavy buying, people think this is a long rally that can pump up the market at a certain stage, but this is their scenario in collecting maximum profits and releasing during pumping conditions occur. Mastering market manipulation is often called trying to play a strategy, so PAUS can take two parts in the process of correction and pumping.

[Natalim]

Whales are the largest mammals in the world and also the most powerful investors in this crypto market and have been around long before bitcoin or crypto existed, and whales play on people's emotions and use the opposite of what most people do and think.
when people are scared, they buy because most people are selling. And conversely when there is greed they sell because most people buy and a lot of people and small investors hate this but this is a part of this industry that is not going away.

Whales are just doing their side what is good for them and so are these sellers. Perhaps, we can never expect that everyone is meant to hold but some will just sell and whales are taking the opportunity to buy their coins. We know that manipulation exists in the market but actually, not only whales are benefiting from this but also small investors and holders got shares from it. I'd never think they are greedy, they only just did what is good for them.

[justdimin]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Both yes and no from me too. I think whales do not have the money you guys think that they do, news do change it, so whales can actually change it but basically by saying stuff and there is a difference to it. Imagine a market where billions and billions of dollars exchange hands everyday, I mean look at the crypto market and trading volume, when you see that do you really think that anyone has enough money to change anything in there? I think there is obviously nobody on earth that can.

You can buy 5 billion dollars worth of bitcoin OTC and not even move it a dime, but if you SAY you will buy 5 billion worth of it, it will move like crazy.

[Hypnosis00]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Whales may have huge investments in crypto but this is not enough to move Bitcoin to where they wanted to go because I believe the term " Decentralized" and Bitcoin does which is difficult for them to do it. They actually can change the market view with the help of social media, they can somehow manipulate and fake trade volume - buying, selling, and moving their money to the other account just to show that there is a huge event on that particular exchange.

They can't do it in Bitcoin but for altcoins, that seems easy for them.

[Haunebu]

Whales can influence the BTC price whenever they want since it's a financial currency just like USD, EUR etc, but they can never fully control it. BTC creators weren't dumb enough to allow something like that to happen.

BTC has, will and shall always be decentralised to some extent despite all the rising regulations against it over time op.

[Maidak]

Whales are the largest mammals in the world and also the most powerful investors in this crypto market and have been around long before bitcoin or crypto existed, and whales play on people's emotions and use the opposite of what most people do and think.
when people are scared, they buy because most people are selling. And conversely when there is greed they sell because most people buy and a lot of people and small investors hate this but this is a part of this industry that is not going away.

Bitcoin price is determined by many factors, and whales alone still cannot control Bitcoin. When whales in the market move funds, it will cause panic to some investors. Whales will use people's emotions to change the direction of the market, and the market will fluctuate.

It is true that the bitcoin price is determined by many factors but I still believe that whales are still manipulating the bitcoin price. For me, the crypto market is so new and so small that manipulation is inevitable. With a market cap of less than $1 trillion and the absence of any regulation, price manipulation with sharks is incredibly easy. Of course, here there is not only one shark but there will be many and in the market, the story of big fish eating small fish always happens.

[panganib999]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

They do have some sort of governance over bitcoin's price. In the past whales have pumped and dumped bitcoin's price a few times. However, it must be said that the general power still lies in the collective, as without us who supports bitcoin through ups and downs, no amount of price injection will ever pump bitcoin's price for a stable amount of time. Moreover, bitcoin's abilities are best exhibited when more people use it. So don't fear about the whales having total control over bitcoin, we still outnumber them.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Bitcoin is less manipulative over the years-- that ought to be noted. Whales do affect the price, but they're less effective over the years, unless there's a big incident happening. For example, a month ago, when FTX bankrupted, there were even whales panicking. And it dropped the price how much? 10-15%?

A few years ago, if a whale sold a billion dollars worth of bitcoin, things would have gone a lot worse. Just see what had happened with MtGox.

[Myleschetty]

Whales are the largest mammals in the world and also the most powerful investors in this crypto market and have been around long before bitcoin or crypto existed, and whales play on people's emotions and use the opposite of what most people do and think.
when people are scared, they buy because most people are selling. And conversely when there is greed they sell because most people buy and a lot of people and small investors hate this but this is a part of this industry that is not going away.

Bitcoin price is determined by many factors, and whales alone still cannot control Bitcoin. When whales in the market move funds, it will cause panic to some investors. Whales will use people's emotions to change the direction of the market, and the market will fluctuate.

It is true that the bitcoin price is determined by many factors but I still believe that whales are still manipulating the bitcoin price. For me, the crypto market is so new and so small that manipulation is inevitable. With a market cap of less than $1 trillion and the absence of any regulation, price manipulation with sharks is incredibly easy. Of course, here there is not only one shark but there will be many and in the market, the story of big fish eating small fish always happens.

yes, the Bitcoin market price is determined by different factors this negative news, mining difficulty, 4years cycle, are one of them but the major controller or manipulator of this current market is the Humpback ^{directly a billion investors} and it will take 2 or more plan to manipulate this current market.

[solehdavid]

Of course they can do it, but they need to move collectively and it will also be important how the fish are positioned.

[Sanitough]

but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?

A "whale" can move the markets to a certain extent, but it doesn't give them overall control over the markets. Take note that even "whales" that attempt to manipulate markets can also lose money.

Also, no "whale" owns 51% of the total supply. Most of the wallets with huge bitcoin holdings(though definitely nothing close to 51%) are exchange cold wallets.

if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Bitcoin is proof of work, not proof of stake. So even if a single person held a huge chunk of Bitcoin, that wouldn't give him special powers over the protocol.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/proof-stake-pos.asp

I guess that explains everything. Regardless of the amount of their possessions, they will never have the full control over the crypto prices. Everything in the market is still unpredictable so whales still end up with price predictions after all, like any other small investors here in the crypto market.

[Russlenat]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

No. No one controls the cryptocurrency prices because even Satoshi I guess is never aware of it. Big whales may have the best advantage when it comes in accumulating a lot of coins but they can never hold the crypto prices nor control it. That is why if they have seen golden opportunities to enter the market, they will always find ways to maximize their purchases more than any other regular investors can do.

[ilovealtcoins]

Bitcoin is decentralized and no one can control it. When a large number of bitcoin holders in the market make some money flows, the price may be affected, but not controlled.

Maybe bitcoin won't be controlled, but its price could be, looking at the market cap, it's just $1 trillion, and I would say this is a minimal number for the financial markets. So its being manipulated is certain. It's all a game, where people take money from each other and forget about technology or decentralization, it only makes you lose more with illusions.

[coinerer]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

A whale investor can make the market take an unusual shape, but not for long.  When a person buys or sells billions of dollars of bitcoins at once, it is normal for the market to behave differently for a while.  But he alone cannot control the entire market as he wishes. But yes I believe that some part of the market can be controlled by whale investors but the whole market is not dependent on them.

[noormcs5]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Decentralization does not mean that a person cannot hold majority of the bitcoins. The difference here is that the bitcoins are limited in number and they supply can't be increased. So in that case if you want to buy bitcoin you need to pay a highlight price and acquire bitcoins.

If there is demand in bitcoin people have to buy it from the market and this is difference from the fiat money where the powerful people can just print the fiat money, which make rich people more rich and poor people more poor.

[imamusma]

A whale investor can make the market take an unusual shape, but not for long.  When a person buys or sells billions of dollars of bitcoins at once, it is normal for the market to behave differently for a while.  But he alone cannot control the entire market as he wishes. But yes I believe that some part of the market can be controlled by whale investors but the whole market is not dependent on them.

Certainly true and that it is possible for whale to manipulate the market but not completely. The fact is that they can also lose lot of money in this very volatile market, so they can only afford it to limited extent. Even anyone but the whale can move the market, but at certain limits and at certain times.

Apart from that, the market can also move with other developments and issues in the industry, such as FUD and other negative news. So not only can whales change market trend, but many other things can also play a role.

[Rana590]

Bitcoin is decentralized and no one can control it. When a large number of bitcoin holders in the market make some money flows, the price may be affected, but not controlled.

Maybe bitcoin won't be controlled, but its price could be, looking at the market cap, it's just $1 trillion, and I would say this is a minimal number for the financial markets. So its being manipulated is certain. It's all a game, where people take money from each other and forget about technology or decentralization, it only makes you lose more with illusions.

Market can be manipulated by big whales and I believe that. Bitcoin is a decentralized crypto but its price is influencing regularly. Many people are losing money here  who don't know the basics about crypto strategies. But it is not possible as a single person and I think most of the whales work together for their personal benefits.

[jokers10]

A whale investor can make the market take an unusual shape, but not for long.  When a person buys or sells billions of dollars of bitcoins at once, it is normal for the market to behave differently for a while.  But he alone cannot control the entire market as he wishes. But yes I believe that some part of the market can be controlled by whale investors but the whole market is not dependent on them.

Control over the market with immediate changes of the chosen parameters is not what we are mainly talking about whales influence. Moreover it has no sense for them in such control. Main idea is in organizing of a long trends: they provoke prolonging or changing of the trends in a chosen market and earn on how these trends go forward based on that. No need of controlling in each minute.

[xSkylarx]

Bitcoin is decentralized and no one can control it. When a large number of bitcoin holders in the market make some money flows, the price may be affected, but not controlled.

Maybe bitcoin won't be controlled, but its price could be, looking at the market cap, it's just $1 trillion, and I would say this is a minimal number for the financial markets. So its being manipulated is certain. It's all a game, where people take money from each other and forget about technology or decentralization, it only makes you lose more with illusions.

Market can be manipulated by big whales and I believe that. Bitcoin is a decentralized crypto but its price is influencing regularly. Many people are losing money here  who don't know the basics about crypto strategies. But it is not possible as a single person and I think most of the whales work together for their personal benefits.

It is not possible if only one person can manipulate or influence the price, for sure it is an organization, but again, those whales (if true) are good guys as they don't manipulate the price, meaning they have so much bitcoin that they can influence the price but they aren't doing it. In contrast to altcoins, once you have a large portion of it, which we can easily obtain on presale, or if it is new, the price will drop when you begin selling your coins. 

[jokers10]

It is not possible if only one person can manipulate or influence the price, for sure it is an organization, but again, those whales (if true) are good guys as they don't manipulate the price, meaning they have so much bitcoin that they can influence the price but they aren't doing it. In contrast to altcoins, once you have a large portion of it, which we can easily obtain on presale, or if it is new, the price will drop when you begin selling your coins. 

Oh they do! Of course with time bitcoin holding becomes more and more decentralized and impact of whales manipulations becomes less and less, but they still do influence and get their benefits from that. I can remind you that even without big market activity Musk influenced the crypto mainly with his several statements. Combining both market games and media activity can give bigger effect. Do you really think that people who can do that, all don't use such an opportunity?

[klidex]

A whale investor can make the market take an unusual shape, but not for long.  When a person buys or sells billions of dollars of bitcoins at once, it is normal for the market to behave differently for a while.  But he alone cannot control the entire market as he wishes. But yes I believe that some part of the market can be controlled by whale investors but the whole market is not dependent on them.

Control over the market with immediate changes of the chosen parameters is not what we are mainly talking about whales influence. Moreover it has no sense for them in such control. Main idea is in organizing of a long trends: they provoke prolonging or changing of the trends in a chosen market and earn on how these trends go forward based on that. No need of controlling in each minute.

The pope will never be able to control and influence the price of Bitcoin.
In the amount of Bitcoin which is only 21 million tokens and is almost gone, Holders and those who keep it are many people not just a group of whales.
I'm sure if the whale holds some Bitcoin and sells it then someone will buy it back because Bitcoin is the most popular asset and is in a hurry to make it an investment asset.
Bitcoin itself is the only cryptocurrency whose price is not centralized by anything and anyone, so it's impossible for someone to set the price of Bitcoin.

[lionheart78]

It is not possible if only one person can manipulate or influence the price, for sure it is an organization, but again, those whales (if true) are good guys as they don't manipulate the price, meaning they have so much bitcoin that they can influence the price but they aren't doing it. In contrast to altcoins, once you have a large portion of it, which we can easily obtain on presale, or if it is new, the price will drop when you begin selling your coins.

It is possible if a person holds a significant amount of Bitcoin, he can have the potential to influence the price of Bitcoin.  Since they hold large amounts of Bitcoin, they can sell large amounts of Bitcoin which can cause a significant price of fluctuation.  The good thing is whales can act individually and may have different positions that sometimes contradict each other. 

Even though whales have the potential to influence the market it isn't accurate to say that they control the Bitcoin price because there are other factors that affect the Bitcoin price.

[Dickiy]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

I think it's impossible if there is one whale that accumulates 51% of bitcoin supply, if possible it consists of several whales, but the position here is that whales don't want to lose, they always want profits and always want to buy at low prices.
So from that dynamic, the whales will always compete with each other to influence prices in the market, such as making Fud or other propaganda that causes prices to fall so they can buy the lowest price in each trend.
I guess talking about price will not affect decentralization itself because it's basically not about the price of bitcoin but about its utility.

[Wakate]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

It is obvious that many of the crypto whales have more power to control the market since they have large percentage of holdings. This usually happens in the market where we do see sudden high volatility in the market and with a few time the market price starts depreciating with fats momentum. These whales have great control in the market to make the price goes up and down.

Even apart form Bitcoin and other big crypto projects, this in random altcoins where we do see pump and down market where the whales do use the opportunity to make great profits from the market while those with small holdings could definitely make loses.

[jokers10]

...
Bitcoin itself is the only cryptocurrency whose price is not centralized by anything and anyone, so it's impossible for someone to set the price of Bitcoin.

Control can be of different kind: setting an exact price is a direct control but it gives not so much if you are trying to earn on that. Making others to support the trend you need is much better but you still need to be an owner of too big part of a market. Seeing the global trends and manipulating with them making others to slow down or speed up those trends in a market much bigger then your own assets can bring you much more and still be a kind of control.

And those ones who can do that and understand how to do that are real whales unlike you and me.

[glendall]

I think whales don't have full control over the price of bitcoin, it all depends on market demand where the market will continue to move if there are lots of buying requests,
but if someone has a large amount of bitcoin there could be a possibility of monopolizing the price, but until now I'm still thinking who will start buying bitcoin with a high value after a long time having a value far below the last highest price

[Marvell1]

I think whales don't have full control over the price of bitcoin, it all depends on market demand where the market will continue to move if there are lots of buying requests,
but if someone has a large amount of bitcoin there could be a possibility of monopolizing the price, but until now I'm still thinking who will start buying bitcoin with a high value after a long time having a value far below the last highest price

It is true that whales do not have full control over the price of bitcoin, but they are still somewhat controlled. The current bitcoin price is not determined by supply and demand. Bitcoin is an open market, so it is normal to be manipulated by big players. In the past 1 week, bitcoin price has increased by more than 15%, and there is no news related to bitcoin being bought more, causing the price to increase. The price increase happened very suddenly and it was no different from being manipulated.

[hZti]

The question would first be: What are the benefits for the whales to try to control bitcoin prices. There it will already get difficult, because currently prices are low. If you are a whale you hold a lot of bitcoin. Why would you benefit from low prices then?

[pawanjain]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

I think you are confusing two things.

One is a whale where a trader who holds a huge amount of coins trying to manipulate the price and benefits from price difference.

The other is 51% attack which is done by miners owning more than 51% mining power and tries to attack the blockchain.

[Stalker22]

If a group of large Bitcoin holders, referred to as "whales," were to own 51% of the total supply of Bitcoin, they would have significant influence over the price of Bitcoin, as they could potentially manipulate the market by selling large amounts of their holdings at once. However, they would not have control over the Bitcoin network itself as they would not have the majority of the mining power which is required to to double spend or reverse transactions, and potentially manipulate the integrity of the blockchain. Thus, decentralization would still exist as the network relies on multiple participants to validate transactions and confirm blocks.

[Osama Maaz]

I get it collectively whales own 51% of btc supply but its a collective figure and not everyone have same mindset some whale or institutes want to pump the price while some want a dump for buying cheaper ,
As a result if market goes up or down artificially then its obvious that a pullback is aspected if move is not by retail traders because if whale pull the market then it need profits and when some one buy whale take profit by selling ( But if pump/dump is manipulated) .

[Mr.right85]

The question would first be: What are the benefits for the whales to try to control bitcoin prices. There it will already get difficult, because currently prices are low. If you are a whale you hold a lot of bitcoin. Why would you benefit from low prices then?

I suppose we know that answer as to why gain control over the market which is nothing short of pump and dump. You flood the market with coins, selling at a high price thereby pushing price down and hope to have introduce a bias in the minds of other traders to sell to further dump the coin and so, you get to buy again from a low to earn profits on them when the market pumps.

The thing is, this things never truly happens.
When we talk about whales, we have to remember that it's just a term for individuals of organisations having a large amount of bitcoins. Hence, having one of them put all them holdings which is impossible as I don't think any one would have and has been holding a large amount of bitcoin would liquidate there asset that way. Even if they should, it would have almost no effect.
What could have brought about some effect in creating a price drop would have been in a collaboration by the whales but that too is very unlikely.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

The question would first be: What are the benefits for the whales to try to control bitcoin prices. There it will already get difficult, because currently prices are low. If you are a whale you hold a lot of bitcoin. Why would you benefit from low prices then?

Whale may not be one person, so trying to control the market means causing a flurry so that the Bitcoin price could dip more as they accumulate more. If a whale holds a lot of bitcoin at the current market state, they can as well cause a fud so that there will be more dips, which can give them the opportunity to buy more, which will be to their benefit. And let's say a news report is released stating that an unknown wallet bought 8 million bitcoins. It's possible that this may cause the price to spike, and they (whales) can sell at the price they choose, but perhaps if another news report stated that an unknown wallet sold 10 million bitcoins, that could also slow down the market. 

IMO, Whale can act in any market situation and take advantage. When the market spikes, they can sell off some holdings. In the current market, they can also cause the price to dip more while they buy more. 

One thing I am glad of is that the market has other factors that influence the price; whales don't have any superpower to just wake up any time they like and spike the market as they like, nor can they just cause it to dip any time they please.

[Yamifoud]

If a group of large Bitcoin holders, referred to as "whales," were to own 51% of the total supply of Bitcoin, they would have significant influence over the price of Bitcoin, as they could potentially manipulate the market by selling large amounts of their holdings at once. However, they would not have control over the Bitcoin network itself as they would not have the majority of the mining power which is required to to double spend or reverse transactions, and potentially manipulate the integrity of the blockchain. Thus, decentralization would still exist as the network relies on multiple participants to validate transactions and confirm blocks.

It can't deny their huge influence in the market due to the huge amount of their control but never be enough to say that whales are having full control of the market. I still believe that Bitcoin is decentralized and whale's participation gives some interesting look at the market which also helps to move prices up and down. Whether we like it or not, manipulation really happens but we never make this as an excuse not to trust Bitcoin and we have to stop thinking that it was already controlled by a group of people (whales).

[Stalker22]

~
Whether we like it or not, manipulation really happens but we never make this as an excuse not to trust Bitcoin and we have to stop thinking that it was already controlled by a group of people (whales).

I agree, manipulation in all financial markets, including the cryptocurrency market, is an unfortunate reality. But don't let it cloud your judgement, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are like the wild child of finance, they have the potential to change the game and shake things up. And that's something worth getting excited about.

[8rch7]

In my personal opinion, Ng is someone who can control the price of bitcoin, because at the beginning the crypto currency was worthless but as time went on there was a lot of demand by itself the price of crypto went up, you could say that pricing in any market is always 100% caused by the law of supply and demand , changes in supply and demand are driven by various narratives such as bullish/bearish news, such as Elon Musk's tweet last year, because one tweet can affect the price of bitcoin.

[Trouvaille]

The price of Bitcoin is so high now that whales cannot control the price of Bitcoin. But they can cause price volatility through large volumes of transactions. Bitcoin is decentralized and no one can control the btc market.

[QueenVera]

I think whales don't have full control over the price of bitcoin, it all depends on market demand where the market will continue to move if there are lots of buying requests,
but if someone has a large amount of bitcoin there could be a possibility of monopolizing the price,

Whales are the market movers, they decide when the market pumps or dump and majority of the whales are exchanges themselves because they have lots of liquidity provided by those making use of if their exchange as wallet and storing their coins over there.
FTX exchange was guilty of this as they found out that they were making use of customers funds illegally and that's what other exchange does too which make it easier for them to manipulate the market.
A Whale mightn't do the manipulation all by themselves but they can do it in groups and this trigger a market reaction whicy the retail traders begin to panic and dump their coins or buy more so they don't miss out on potential profits.

[Hamza2424]

whales play an important role in the complete cycle of bitcoin but if you say that they control the bitcoin market value then bro I will look into this statement. Yes, they do manipulate the bitcoin market value on some instants of the cycle but they don't control the whole market situation. Sometimes they do it intentionally.

[ShowOff]

I agree, manipulation in all financial markets, including the cryptocurrency market, is an unfortunate reality. But don't let it cloud your judgement, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are like the wild child of finance, they have the potential to change the game and shake things up. And that's something worth getting excited about.

I also agree that price manipulation is very possible in this relatively market. It usually doesn't take hundreds millions of dollars to change a market's trend to bullish or bearish, as a result these markets can always be manipulated by whales or anyone with enough budget. But as a consequence, they will also lose money from it instead of expecting only profits.

FUD is also a game, in fact deliberately made and spread in various media so that panic occurs everywhere. In the end each of us must remain wise about the market, risky but certainly worth the return.

[ajiz138]

I also agree that price manipulation is very possible in this relatively market. It usually doesn't take hundreds millions of dollars to change a market's trend to bullish or bearish, as a result these markets can always be manipulated by whales or anyone with enough budget. But as a consequence, they will also lose money from it instead of expecting only profits.

I hear a lot about crypto market manipulation and it's probably very relative because we know everytime we see whales making deposits or withdrawals (notifications from telegram channel) it's always assumed they are making market moves instead maybe whales want to be bearish and buy at the price low, but in fact, we don't know for sure. What is clear is that we always hook whales in the market, so it was his doing, but the real thing is that we don't know who did it, but what is clear is that there was manipulation.

FUD is also a game, in fact deliberately made and spread in various media so that panic occurs everywhere. In the end each of us must remain wise about the market, risky but certainly worth the return.

FUD is a game of big people who can say whales too, so what raises it is the mass media that we see on several social media of course this often creates panic which in the end there are those who sell their assets because of the FUD panic that is created, they feel weak because there is no can survive in this situation while the risk is itself, about that value it will definitely return to bitcoin in the high place.

[SquallLeonhart]

I also agree that price manipulation is very possible in this relatively market. It usually doesn't take hundreds millions of dollars to change a market's trend to bullish or bearish, as a result these markets can always be manipulated by whales or anyone with enough budget. But as a consequence, they will also lose money from it instead of expecting only profits.

I hear a lot about crypto market manipulation and it's probably very relative because we know everytime we see whales making deposits or withdrawals (notifications from telegram channel) it's always assumed they are making market moves instead maybe whales want to be bearish and buy at the price low, but in fact, we don't know for sure. What is clear is that we always hook whales in the market, so it was his doing, but the real thing is that we don't know who did it, but what is clear is that there was manipulation.

I think whales do a lot less than what people assume they do. Too many people assume that whales do something when the market moves, and yes I am sure there are times when the market moves because of whales making moves, but I think it is much more common for everyone to make a move and then end up with something like this, then actually whales doing it.

This is why it's definitely something a bit more risky and dangerous to keep blaming whales on these type of things because in the end it may not be something like that at all, and you would be looking at the wrong place for the move to come from. I suggest looking at other places instead as well, that would be a lot better.

[Newlifebtc]

The price of Bitcoin is so high now that whales cannot control the price of Bitcoin. But they can cause price volatility through large volumes of transactions. Bitcoin is decentralized and no one can control the btc market.

I think that's the price of bitcoin that is high now or getting so high increment is for little correction of the market and the price after having a potential value it will still go down So whoever that investing or buying bitcoin should have it a man that it was calmed down a game before it arrived to normalize the market that is my own opinion,because bitcoin is a decentralized currency which nobody can as well believe on it

[Lida93]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

There's no such thing as bitcoin being controlled by any individual or group of individuals called whales, it might seem they have a good amount of ownership of bitcoin but that doesn't give them a chance to alter the decentralization that exist within BTC. They might influence news and speculations about the coin to trigger some actions amongst the small boys in the market (it's all market psychology strategy) but that doesn't in anyway make them have control to market price outcome.

[Popkon6]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

In a Bitcoin market whales do not hold 51% of the market.  In certain places, whales are ready to take the market pace, but the owner himself will open many of them.  But if he had taken over the market by 51%, the Bitcoin market would have gone to ruin before it is here today.
Bitcoin is not controlled by anyone.  Many say Bitcoin is controlled by whales including the OP but they are just a scam but the Bitcoin market is controlled in its own way and depends on investors and trading and investors.  Many people help keep Bitcoin moving with information, but they aren't actually whales.

[n0ne]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

There's no such thing as bitcoin being controlled by any individual or group of individuals called whales, it might seem they have a good amount of ownership of bitcoin but that doesn't give them a chance to alter the decentralization that exist within BTC. They might influence news and speculations about the coin to trigger some actions amongst the small boys in the market (it's all market psychology strategy) but that doesn't in anyway make them have control to market price outcome.

In the past whales used to play a big role in the price manipulation. The big bag holders try to increase the holdings out of the small holders through panic news spreading. When there is very small number of users available in the market, this has been possible and now things weren't the same as past. Now influencers and other whales into the market try to have control over the market. This is possible to some extent and further it is the common users and the technology that derives the value. Whales are part of the market who have the ability to make some disturbance in the market than controlling.

[TribalBob]

~
Whether we like it or not, manipulation really happens but we never make this as an excuse not to trust Bitcoin and we have to stop thinking that it was already controlled by a group of people (whales).

I agree, manipulation in all financial markets, including the cryptocurrency market, is an unfortunate reality. But don't let it cloud your judgement, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are like the wild child of finance, they have the potential to change the game and shake things up. And that's something worth getting excited about.

I think price manipulation and whales are mutually reinforcing to create high value for bitcoin, plus panic news makes small amount of btc owners sell, but ...... I dunno it's too complicated to actually trace because of the unpredictable state of dicrypto it's too anonymous

[Fatunad]

~
Whether we like it or not, manipulation really happens but we never make this as an excuse not to trust Bitcoin and we have to stop thinking that it was already controlled by a group of people (whales).

I agree, manipulation in all financial markets, including the cryptocurrency market, is an unfortunate reality. But don't let it cloud your judgement, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are like the wild child of finance, they have the potential to change the game and shake things up. And that's something worth getting excited about.

I think price manipulation and whales are mutually reinforcing to create high value for bitcoin, plus panic news makes small amount of btc owners sell, but ...... I dunno it's too complicated to actually trace because of the unpredictable state of dicrypto it's too anonymous

We do know on how whales do move but there's no way on how to point it out because sudden spikes and pumps are always unacknowledgeable or something that we cant notice until we've seen it already happened.
This is what makes things even more harder to predict and speculate no matter how good your TA's of FA's into your analysis and this is what makes it very challenging.
No doubt that they do really have that control when it comes to BItcoins price but of course there's still that influence in overall market or community demand and attached
up some emotions into their buying and selling decisions.

[KFC786]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

There a re a lot of reasons behind Bitcoin pump and also dump and some of these are described as below,
1. Bitcoin Large institutions also control a lot of Bitcoin fluctuations.
2. Crypto media and influencers play important role in this.
3. Crypto exchanges and also other such things also have big roles too.

[wastagnn]

Bitcoin is not controlled by anyone, nor can whales control the market price. But whales play a big role in price manipulation. They try to create a panic message spread through a large number of trades to trigger certain actions in the market.

[borovichok]

whales play an important role in the complete cycle of bitcoin but if you say that they control the bitcoin market value then bro I will look into this statement. Yes, they do manipulate the bitcoin market value on some instants of the cycle but they don't control the whole market situation. Sometimes they do it intentionally.

Whales are the top earners of the market with getting full control and manipulate the market into their favour with ease and no competition from anywhere. There are numerous examples of whales in the market like Elon Musk who's fun about bagging hugh pieces of a coin and that controls the high rise and low rise of the project. Most people follow the trend news Elon musk dropped about projects in the space and thinking he cook that all up, but sometimes its entrapped investors in the space with major risks to liquidation. Bitcoin is a good projects and it can not be control by one person because many top companies and people have pieces of coin similar to shares, one getting full control can manipulate or glitch bitcoin which will trick most investors to selling what they already possessed.

[8rch7]

whales play an important role in the complete cycle of bitcoin but if you say that they control the bitcoin market value then bro I will look into this statement. Yes, they do manipulate the bitcoin market value on some instants of the cycle but they don't control the whole market situation. Sometimes they do it intentionally.

In my personal opinion, the price of bitcoin is determined by the most motivated buyers and sellers, because someone who has a lot of money or bitcoins can certainly make market movements, but it must be underlined that they can never control bitcoin, the whales also cannot hack the network. bitcoin let alone destroy bitcoin, because to destroy bitcoin the internet must also be destroyed and all hard drives that store bitcoin must also be destroyed, it is certain that a scenario like this is almost impossible to do.

[GigaBit]

In my personal opinion, Ng is someone who can control the price of bitcoin, because at the beginning the crypto currency was worthless but as time went on there was a lot of demand by itself the price of crypto went up, you could say that pricing in any market is always 100% caused by the law of supply and demand , changes in supply and demand are driven by various narratives such as bullish/bearish news, such as Elon Musk's tweet last year, because one tweet can affect the price of bitcoin.

A large portion of the global BTC holdings are usually controlled by large investors. Some big investors try to get the market to move in their favor and when the market moves positively in their favor we call it the blue whale effect. Controlling such a large market is not an easy. Blue whales usually try to profit by doing the opposite of what ordinary investors think. When there is panic in the market, ordinary investors sell their assets, blue whales take advantage of the opportunity to buy, and when the market tries to go higher, blue whales sell assets and take profits. Hence, general investors have to manage buying, selling and holding by implementing this process. There are a lot of investors around the world, so there are a lot of blue whales. Since they can't ‍stay together, they also have a big investment risk.

[TheUltraElite]

Bitcoin is not controlled by anyone, nor can whales control the market price. But whales play a big role in price manipulation. They try to create a panic message spread through a large number of trades to trigger certain actions in the market.

Both Whales and the weak hands keep the market liquid, added to it the influencers who shill coins help in pump and dump. A lot of factors are in play here and our goal is to get the best possible price for a coin and move with that. It is incorrect to say that a specific money hoarding group is making the market move or calling the shots, rather an interplay.

Panic is created by the people who have bought at high prices and now finding that they are in loss and thus they panic sell. It is a wrong move to buy at the top, but you can still recover it or break even if you are patient enough.

However the weak hands catch this and they easily panic causing the whales to accumulate more - to counter this, one needs to think like the whale, go opposite of what the weak hands are doing.

[LDL]

In fact, I am also curious, if the assets are rich enough, can the price of Bitcoin be manipulated? So Bitcoin is still decentralized? If it happened, wouldn't the value of Bitcoin be determined by whales?

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin.  Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

[Fullcoinese]

In fact, I am also curious, if the assets are rich enough, can the price of Bitcoin be manipulated? So Bitcoin is still decentralized? If it happened, wouldn't the value of Bitcoin be determined by whales?

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin.  Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

yes, maybe what is done in the sale of bitcoins in large enough quantities will cause a price decrease. but not with dump conditions which will have a long impact. as long as market demand is still strong enough, lower prices will also be offset by large volume purchases. and that helped the price to recover quickly.
what the whales do doesn't control Bitcoin. it is they who usually use market-related news as an opportunity to gain support for profit.

[worle1bm]

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin.  Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

The correct name is Michael Saylor and at current his company MicroStrategy holds more then 120k bitcoins and he buys at dips but even if he sell the effect would be temporary dump on the prices but in long run it will rise.The whales cannot directly have the manipulation so they also try to create FUD so that there is panic in the market which results in weak hands selling to strong one's at discounted rates.But nobody can control the bitcoin network which is true decentralisation nature of it.

[bangjoe]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

As many people have said whales will not be able to regulate the bitcoin network because it is absolutely decentralized, if in terms of price it is possible for them to be able to manipulate the market with FUD or selling and buying which is quite large in value, but so far the whales are not only one there are thousands whales who are competing to buy the lowest price of bitcoin and maybe they will also be in a dilemma considering the global situation, this situation can benefit the whales but can also harm them too because basically their influence can be said to be small in the market, unless the whales cooperate, but that impossible.

[Negotiation]

Bitcoin is not controlled by anyone, nor can whales control the market price. But whales play a big role in price manipulation. They try to create a panic message spread through a large number of trades to trigger certain actions in the market.

Whales usually try to put a bad situation in the market by doing this, investors are afraid and stop investing but bitcoin cannot be controlled by anyone, it is decentralized. Bitcoin is on the rise that is the demand for it is increasing currently, although the central banks of the world have not accepted cryptocurrency yet it is thought that they will accept it very soon.

[zaki12]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

If you think that whales only have one person to control prices, it seems impossible, let alone having 51%. Because if only 1 whale does this, the price is guaranteed to have no effect. Pump and dump involves many parties, only then can it be carried out.

Maybe you mean a group of whales. if so maybe several whales work together, using a communication medium such as a group, to do a pump and dump. The whales will pump and dump at a predetermined time, which has previously been announced in their group. All whales in the group follow the instructions from the whales to do instant buys simultaneously so they can increase prices quickly. After the target is reached, they will immediately sell to dump the price. This is just my opinion only

[jokers10]

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin.  Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

Control can be not only direct, but indirect only: you don't need to affect a market with one big sale or buy, you need to provoke a wave of deals in a way you are interested in. So you can make multiple small deals, use media and viral marketing and other tools you can to achieve your main goal: to get profit from a trend you are interested at the moment. Yes, it is not so easy, but who would like to play on a market where one player can directly control everything? No one, so that only player will not get profit as well.

[lizarder]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

You know that bitcoin is decentralized, but it also says whales control the price. Then what is meant by decentralization?
Decentralization will never get lost in the journey of bitcoin, because it is its nature and function. Whales or a group of them may be able to move the market, but not have complete control to make bitcoin go up.

Simply put, the whales also don't necessarily own 51% of bitcoin in my opinion, nor is there any guarantee that bitcoins are currently held on exchanges, especially after the FTX case left many people feeling apprehensive about holding bitcoins on centralized exchanges.

[klidex]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

You know that bitcoin is decentralized, but it also says whales control the price. Then what is meant by decentralization?
Decentralization will never get lost in the journey of bitcoin, because it is its nature and function. Whales or a group of them may be able to move the market, but not have complete control to make bitcoin go up.

Simply put, the whales also don't necessarily own 51% of bitcoin in my opinion, nor is there any guarantee that bitcoins are currently held on exchanges, especially after the FTX case left many people feeling apprehensive about holding bitcoins on centralized exchanges.

Of course whales will not be able to control Bitcoins even though they have lots of Bitcoins, but it should be impossible for whales to hold lots of bitcoins up to 50% of the total in circulation because actually the one who really keeps the most Bitcoins is Satoshi himself who is the creator of Bitcoin.
What's more, Bitcoin is not a crypto asset that is centered on anything and in the Crypto industry, investors who store Bitcoin consist of many people spread all over the world, so it is impossible for Bitcoin to be influenced or controlled by a group of whales.
We should have been able to think that if bitcoin could be controlled, it wouldn't have been controlled and played with long ago, but in reality no one has been able to control it.

[samcoin]

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin.  Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

It's decentralized as a network. Unfortunately, in terms of owners and price movers it's becoming more centralized.
As Bitcoin managed to prove its worthiness as a commodity, big investment companies and banks are trying hard to control it and throw the majority of small investors out of the market. Therefore we are watching a lot of FUD and manipulations lately. It won't be easy for the crowd to keep on their share of the market, if the real plan for Bitcoin is to be a global asset.

[DoublerHunter]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

^ That needs a lot of financial support if you wanted to hold 51% of BTC, I dont think there is a whale will risk at that high amount, whales can move a certain price but that is not a lot, it could be a huge loss into their pocket too if they will do this. There is no one controlling the price even how rich you are, it depends on how the adoption will grow. Decentralization still does exist as long as the BTC network is still there that publicly seen transactions, remember the purpose of BTC and why it was created.
However, besides worrying about this I think you need more research and study about BTC.

[shinratensei_]

I think if it's big coins like bitcoin and ethereum some random whales couldn't really do anything in regard of the value of the coin, I think it still largely depends in the market trend, but if it's some smaller altcoins the whales might have controls over it, you've seen various meme coins that's being manipulated, I guess that's the scale of their ability in controlling coins, manipulating bitcoin and ethereum would definitely take tremendous money from them and that also doesn't guarantee that they gonna make returns from this attempt of investments manipulation.

[uneng]

I think if it's big coins like bitcoin and ethereum some random whales couldn't really do anything in regard of the value of the coin, I think it still largely depends in the market trend, but if it's some smaller altcoins the whales might have controls over it, you've seen various meme coins that's being manipulated, I guess that's the scale of their ability in controlling coins, manipulating bitcoin and ethereum would definitely take tremendous money from them and that also doesn't guarantee that they gonna make returns from this attempt of investments manipulation.

Bitcoin is also susceptible in some scale to whales' manipulation. Not too much like it happens regards altcoins, but there is also manipulation in Bitcoin market, anyway. The good news is that each time a whale attempts to manipulate the market, he is going to drop tons of coins for sale, which are bought by small investors, so on long run we are going to have more investors involved in Bitcoin investment, while the coins will be split among more hands, decreasing the power and influence whales have on this market.

[DanWalker]

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin.  Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

The correct name is Michael Saylor and at current his company MicroStrategy holds more then 120k bitcoins and he buys at dips but even if he sell the effect would be temporary dump on the prices but in long run it will rise.The whales cannot directly have the manipulation so they also try to create FUD so that there is panic in the market which results in weak hands selling to strong one's at discounted rates.But nobody can control the bitcoin network which is true decentralisation nature of it.

It is true that no one can control the bitcoin network as it is scattered all over the world, so manipulating it is almost impossible, but considering the bitcoin price, they are more than capable of doing it. Crypto is still just a manipulative market where bump and dump games are constantly happening. The market cap is just $1 trillion, too small to be easily manipulated, and it's so free that the sharks of the financial markets won't ignore it for profit.

[kapalmabur]

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin.  Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

The correct name is Michael Saylor and at current his company MicroStrategy holds more then 120k bitcoins and he buys at dips but even if he sell the effect would be temporary dump on the prices but in long run it will rise.The whales cannot directly have the manipulation so they also try to create FUD so that there is panic in the market which results in weak hands selling to strong one's at discounted rates.But nobody can control the bitcoin network which is true decentralisation nature of it.

It is true that no one can control the bitcoin network as it is scattered all over the world, so manipulating it is almost impossible, but considering the bitcoin price, they are more than capable of doing it. Crypto is still just a manipulative market where bump and dump games are constantly happening. The market cap is just $1 trillion, too small to be easily manipulated, and it's so free that the sharks of the financial markets won't ignore it for profit.

Such is the fact that the crypto market is still manipulative and it is common knowledge,
as long as there is an opportunity they pope will use it to manipulate the market,
the most important thing is that we are always careful and keep abreast of market developments.

[Peanutswar]

Not a single whale can manipulate the market price most of the time those are the large investors sometimes as a team so they can dump immediately the price, and those percentage is just a single whale its all about the other investors too and the current economic status why do the people withdraw their funds or just transfer and convert into other coins, but if you are a small trader and getting into this wave of the crypto market better to know when the time to exit.

[lizarder]

Of course whales will not be able to control Bitcoins even though they have lots of Bitcoins, but it should be impossible for whales to hold lots of bitcoins up to 50% of the total in circulation because actually the one who really keeps the most Bitcoins is Satoshi himself who is the creator of Bitcoin.
What's more, Bitcoin is not a crypto asset that is centered on anything and in the Crypto industry, investors who store Bitcoin consist of many people spread all over the world, so it is impossible for Bitcoin to be influenced or controlled by a group of whales.
We should have been able to think that if bitcoin could be controlled, it wouldn't have been controlled and played with long ago, but in reality no one has been able to control it.

And it's also still pretty anonymous how many Bitcoins Satoshi Nakamoto owns, because as of now no one has been able to prove the number of holdings, I believe the Pope can play his part in the market, but not control the price as they see fit. If not, many companies holding Bitcoin are currently able to control the price of Bitcoin, another reason that strengthens Bitcoin cannot be controlled has been proven by governments trying to make Regulations, but their wishes failed and were unable to limit bitcoin.

Because the decentralized nature of Bitcoin makes many people unable to control its price, Bitcoin is influenced to rise or be corrected for a number of strong reasons and maybe a simpler one is called a supply and demand relationship, some others may also have a relationship that influences it even though it is not clear or definite.

[Mr. Magkaisa]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

   - The whales can give a strong movement to the value of bitcoin in the market, they cannot control it at the price they want, and it will only have a big impact.

But to your question, if anyone own 51% bitcoin? can it be done? Do you know how many bitcoins 51% is? the answer is around 10, 710, 000 BTC, and if I calculate that with its current value it is around 223B$ almost. And when you use google search you won't find any bitcoin holders who have that many bitcoins.

[Cantsay]

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin. 

[Mr.right85]

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin. 

I think collectively, there are more accumulated Sats in bitcoins of individual holdings than there are by any single whale. Given this, it is extremely difficult to have control of what you don't have the majority and for each you sell, you lose your strength or influence over the market. After all, you hope to hold in other to have more profits from your holding. This means, no whale would effectively sell there coins.
Mind you, trabsfering your coins from a wallet to an exchange be it a whale or an individual with some hodlings doesn't mean your selling them. You just might as well be providing liquidity which is effective based on how the news is passed and received by investors.

Demand and Supply with respect to scarcity controls the market still.

[ningrum]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Bitcoin is still decentralized, it's just that the supply of Bitcoin has actually been bought by several big companies like maybe Tesla and Microstrategy who are buying up Bitcoin,
we can also see through explorer how the supply of bitcoin moves, and who holds Bitcoin, this is why Decentralization will always run in Bitcoin,
whales can indeed be in control, but to destroy bitcoin of course they can never, so don't worry.

[blockman]

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin. 

True, they don't have utter control over the market but they can influence everyone which that will make a move in the market. They may slightly affect it.
But, whenever they use media for it, we see that it seems a market manipulation because of what everyone is going to do and that's making them panic if it's a bad news.
These whales know how to play with everyone's emotion and they're maximizing the use of media for it.

[jokers10]

...
whales can indeed be in control, but to destroy bitcoin of course they can never, so don't worry.

Strange idea to get a control over the price of an asset to destroy an asset. If someone would like to destroy bitcoin he'd probably choose a way of coding some malware or adopting some prohibitional laws. If someone even holds 51% of BTC by own it doesn't destroy bitcoin. You'll hardly can buy all bitcoins to prevent it's moving.

[TheUltraElite]

Strange idea to get a control over the price of an asset to destroy an asset. If someone would like to destroy bitcoin he'd probably choose a way of coding some malware or adopting some prohibitional laws. If someone even holds 51% of BTC by own it doesn't destroy bitcoin. You'll hardly can buy all bitcoins to prevent it's moving.

Destroying bitcoin does not even make any sense. Controlling the bigger share of bitcoin also does not, because it is decentralized. Attempting to move the market using a large volume is possible but that does not allow a "whale" to control the price but only move it.

Laws on crypto are big way but possible that may happen in future, even then we got bigger heads on that for now and far as malware is concerned, we should be more careful about our own wallets and how we keep them safe because that is the easiest point of entry instead of the market.

It is the pump and dump groups that move more than what whales do in my opinion. But keeping all that aside, since our objective is to make profit off the market, just treat them as numbers and dont get emotionally attached to it.

[jokers10]

Destroying bitcoin does not even make any sense.
...

Oh there are many different interests in the world: bitcoin competes fiat currencies including USD and EUR and their issuers could be interested in destroying a competitor; some classical assets like shares market can be also interested in redirecting of financial flows to them. And there could be some other interested party. So there could be sense, but the balance between interest and efforts makes it too expensive. So whales prefer to earn on bitcoin and not to try to destroy it.

[bbigtart]

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin. 

True, they don't have utter control over the market but they can influence everyone which that will make a move in the market. They may slightly affect it.
But, whenever they use media for it, we see that it seems a market manipulation because of what everyone is going to do and that's making them panic if it's a bad news.
These whales know how to play with everyone's emotion and they're maximizing the use of media for it.

I agree that Bitcoin is uncontrollable in its current form because it is designed that way. However, Bitcoin prices can and are manipulated by whales. I believe you can microtransact large quantities without negatively affecting the price. That's what Microstrategy does. On-chain data shows a high price correlation with whales moving in large numbers on or off exchanges. One scenario I've heard of is the whale has huge shorts, dumps a lot of bitcoins, shakes up a lot of people, and their micro buy orders gobble up the bitcoins.

[Agbe]

I think whales don't have full control over the price of bitcoin, it all depends on market demand where the market will continue to move if there are lots of buying requests,
but if someone has a large amount of bitcoin there could be a possibility of monopolizing the price,

Whales are the market movers, they decide when the market pumps or dump and majority of the whales are exchanges themselves because they have lots of liquidity provided by those making use of if their exchange as wallet and storing their coins over there.
FTX exchange was guilty of this as they found out that they were making use of customers funds illegally and that's what other exchange does too which make it easier for them to manipulate the market.
A Whale mightn't do the manipulation all by themselves but they can do it in groups and this trigger a market reaction whicy the retail traders begin to panic and dump their coins or buy more so they don't miss out on potential profits.

glendall then who gave the demand and supply in the market. Whales are the controllers of the market. They determine the movement of the market. If all the whale withdraw from bitcoin then the price drastically change and come down.

QueenVera I agree with you, one whale can not determine the price but as a cartel (group). The only part they can't do is the control of bitcoin but for the price they have influence. Bitcoin is a decentralized asset which nobody can control.

[Jody.Drummer]

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin. 

True, they don't have utter control over the market but they can influence everyone which that will make a move in the market. They may slightly affect it.
But, whenever they use media for it, we see that it seems a market manipulation because of what everyone is going to do and that's making them panic if it's a bad news.
These whales know how to play with everyone's emotion and they're maximizing the use of media for it.

We cannot deny that indeed the whales will have a slight impact, but not that big. I agree with what you said that supply and demand is still the main thing to control the bitcoin market. But now there is a lot of talk about whales influencing the price of bitcoin, in my opinion it is a belief that sticks in the mind. I mean when we have such thoughts and believe then we are under the illusion that what we believe is really happening, even though there are many other factors involved in it.

[Not your key not your BTC]

Now we know who control the bitcoin price, the company like blackrock, fidelity, valkrie and ets try to control bitcoi  price.

If you don't own bitcoin for now, you will buy it again on high price in the future

[dansus021]

Whales do not 100% control the market but they can move some candles up and down in a short of period of time. and I dont believe they can control bitcoin price entire time but I do believe they exist in other instrument as well

I mean money talks right if you have lot money you might move the price to your direction but Also bunch of retail can also act againts the whale too so decentralization is pretty much still there

[uchegod-21]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Whales have the power to manipulate the prices of coins and this is more evident in altcoins that has lower price and low market cap. Bitcoin is not very easy to manipulate this team, you are definitely gonna risk so many resources which may turn bad for you.
Talking about if whales own 51% of bitcoin whether it will affect decentralization. The 50% attack is not about the number of bitcoin owned but the computational power. So, nothing will happen to decentralization because bitcoin network is based on PoW and not PoS.

[Tony116]

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Whales have the power to manipulate the prices of coins and this is more evident in altcoins that has lower price and low market cap. Bitcoin is not very easy to manipulate this team, you are definitely gonna risk so many resources which may turn bad for you.
Talking about if whales own 51% of bitcoin whether it will affect decentralization. The 50% attack is not about the number of bitcoin owned but the computational power. So, nothing will happen to decentralization because bitcoin network is based on PoW and not PoS.

I agree when comparing bitcoin vs altcoin manipulation, smaller cap altcoins are easier to manipulate. But saying that bitcoin is not easily manipulated, I disagree. We look at the entire market and can see a total capitalization of just over $1 trillion. Honestly, the financial market with such a small cap can be said to be insignificant, the manipulation is too easy, whales can manipulate the whole market, not just bitcoin. 1 trillion USD for an individual is huge, but compared to other markets, it is nothing, even less than the capitalization of a corporation. And that's why we still have a lot of opportunities to make big money investing in cryptocurrencies, but the risks will also be more.
What we are talking about is just price manipulation, as for the bitcoin network, I don't think anyone can manipulate it.