Segmenting/Reserving Block Space

[bipshuffle]

Thanks for the in-depth example.
Seems like this is a more difficult problem than it appears at the surface.

Are there any promising solutions in development/consideration? Or is furthering development of LN the primary approach?

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[larry_vw_1955]

For example, 20% of block reserved specifically for lightening transactions, 20% reserved for ordinals, 60% reserved for general use.

Who's going to decide on those percentages? As much as I'd like the spam to stop, I don't think some "central authority in power" is the right way to do that. I also see no reason to reserve 20% for the spammers.

but you merited OP's original posting which contained the above statement in bold. and now you're saying you don't like the idea? that seems like a contradiction.  

even for people that dislike ordinals, i don't think they would agree with the OP's idea. and neither would people who use ordinals because their fees would go up but that may be giving them too much credit since i don't even know if many of them even follow bitcoin too closely even while spamming the blockchain..with their monkeys.

just as a simple example of things that could go wrong: say a particular block didn't have any ordinals. or not enough to fill up the 20% quota. that's wasted block space which could have been used to lower transaction fees for "ordinary" transactions.

[ABCbits]

Are there any promising solutions in development/consideration? Or is furthering development of LN the primary approach?

There are few things that comes to mind,

• PLTC as replacement of HLTC, which commonly used by LN. PLTC has less on-chain TX size/weight.
• Taproot Assets and RGB protocol, which enable token, NFT and others on LN.
• Various Bitcoin sidechain and L2.

For example, 20% of block reserved specifically for lightening transactions, 20% reserved for ordinals, 60% reserved for general use.

Who's going to decide on those percentages? As much as I'd like the spam to stop, I don't think some "central authority in power" is the right way to do that. I also see no reason to reserve 20% for the spammers.

but you merited OP's original posting which contained the above statement in bold. and now you're saying you don't like the idea? that seems like a contradiction.  

It's probably merit for OP's effort, i also do that on few occasion.

[LoyceV]

but you merited OP's original posting which contained the above statement in bold. and now you're saying you don't like the idea? that seems like a contradiction.  

Merit doesn't mean "like" or "agree. In this case, it means it's worth reading, and not spam. And I'm loaded in sMerit.

[d5000]

Are there any promising solutions in development/consideration? Or is furthering development of LN the primary approach?

I think LN is still the "primary" approach in the Bitcoin community itself. It has a few problems though, for example the replacement cycle attack, which still make it unsuitable for larger payments.

Sidechain projects and concepts I know of, which are not federated - i.e. centralized management by a static multisig "federation" of users - are:

- Drivechain (problem: needs new opcode, is not well liked by some Bitcoin Core devs)
- Stacks (if everything works well it will be rolled out this year, problem: has a premined token for consensus)
- Nomic (already live, but the peg bridge is limited because it's in an audit process, has also a premined token for consensus)

Federated sidechains are primarily Elements and RSK, which are live already for years.

Then there is the rollup concept, where the data is stored on a sidechain and on mainchain in a compressed form. It already works well on Ethereum, but the popular projects (for example, Optimism) also have premined tokens. On Bitcoin it would probably also need new opcodes. There's an info website for rollups on Bitcoin. I read recently that the Avail project is about to launch on Bitcoin.

There is also the extension block concept, which afaik was implemented in Litecoin for the Mimblewimble privacy technology. It's also a kind of sidechain. It was rejected however in 2017 when it was proposed for Bitcoin as an alternative to a block size increase.

Premined tokens is a problem because it makes the project centralized in some way, there will always be a founder group which is able to extract profits. This is a bit against Bitcoin's ethos, and thus sidechain concepts (except Drivechain) are mostly viewed as "altcoins" by many Bitcoiners. What I could imagine however, as most projects are open source, that you could fork these projects once they work and build a version without premined token.

I think the rollups concept and Stacks/Nomic are the closest to be implemented, and I expect some fully working for this year.

[larry_vw_1955]

Merit doesn't mean "like" or "agree. In this case, it means it's worth reading, and not spam. And I'm loaded in sMerit.

if you disagreed with it then what made it worth reading exactly? to me it seemed like trying to go way overboard and hard fork bitcoin just to solve a small problem. the "cure" is worse than the disease if that makes any sense. you really want to change the entire structure of bitcoin blocks and require a hard fork just because of some monkeys? how is that worth even discussing?

i'm not against throwing a few merits to a new user trying to make contributions through their ideas just in this case, he's way off. try again, i would say.