Bitcoiners kill Bitcoin, and governments are happy, boycott the CEXs

[NdaMk]

Someone might have a financial emergency and these exchanges would be the best platform to convert Bitcoin to fiat. I am sure in the nearest future there would be better alternative to these exchanges and people would gladly dump their services.
        

I have to agree with on this one about CEX's, in some countries where crypto are banned they make it easier to buy/sell their funds. To new investors it is easier to learn. But this doesn't translate to leaving your heavy funds on it. People that do that are either earning through some of features there or one way or the other. If we could get DEX making it easier to learn and having some future trading futures we could do well it that. But overall CEX'S are just cunning to have funds on

[1714787853]

1714787853

[1714787853]

1714787853

[1714787853]

1714787853

[1714787853]

1714787853

[o_e_l_e_o]

I strongly dislike the whole "less convenient" argument which always comes up when DEXs are discussed. The only part of using a DEX which is less convenient is clicking the actual "buy" or "sell" button at the point you want to make a trade. Everything else is more convenient. It is more convenient to sign up. It is more convenient to not have hand over all your details. It is more convenient to not have to scan your documents and complete KYC. It is more convenient to not have to wait 5 days for approval. It is more convenient to not have to link a bank account, and then wait another 5 days for your payment to clear. It is more convenient to not get hit with ridiculous withdrawal fees. It is more convenient to not wait several hours or days for your withdrawal to be approved. It is more convenient to not have your identity stolen and end up with $100,000 of debt in your name from some criminal. It is more convenient to not lose your entire stash because the CEX you chose turned out to be a scam or went bankrupt.

Imagine for a second that CEXs never existed, and using DEXs was the default that everyone was used to. A new exchange comes along and says "We are different to all the others. It is difficult to sign up, you have zero privacy, you have to risk your identity being stolen, you have zero security, you have to hand over all your coins, you could lose everything at any time with no warning and no chance of getting back a single satoshi, we'll share all your data with third parties and report all your activities to your government, we'll have random delays and downtime, frozen accounts, locked coins, delayed withdrawals, be under maintenance, insider trade, and awful customer service, but for all that it's quick when you press buy!" Who in their right mind would use this exchange?

People think it is more convenient because they are conditioned to believe that by the very CEXs which survive on them believing that.

[savetheFORUM]

~snip

The less convenient part could also be true when it comes to chains. When I am using binance I can trade so many coins, and they are legit ones, whereas when I am trading on pancakeswap, either I trade the things only on BSC, or I use the wrapped version of them which is hard to turn into cash, whereas in Binance I can withdraw money to my bank account in fiat form within 5 minutes.

When you compare these things together then it becomes a bit harder and I understand the difference and the reason behind it for sure. It is not a situation that needs to be figured out because DEX is still better, I am just saying why some people think like that.

[NeuroticFish]

Are you blind?

It's not about blindness, it's more about greed, lack of understanding properly what they see and also impatience.
People want to get money - fiat money - very fast, as much as possible. They don't understand all these details, they don't even care about them. Heck, they don't understand nor care about bitcoin either! Of course then that way too many want a "bitcoin account", no matter that this means an account in a CEX that may fail tomorrow. All they want is to get fast to a little slice of this pie.

Yes, bitcoiners too make the mistake of using CEX sometimes. But that's a different story and the scale is smaller. There the problems might start with poorer countries and less options available and continue with the (bad) habits and laziness. Still, I think that this happens at a rather small scale.

The less convenient part could also be true when it comes to chains. When I am using binance I can trade so many coins

You've just proven my point. So many coins. Greed*. I am almost sure you don't know well enough most of those. Because if you'd know, you'd notice that those "so many coins" are just a distraction, just a curtain of smoke preventing you see what makes sense to follow and what not. But why do that when you can trade/gamble between a lot of interesting names, hoping to get some easy money?
(* Please don't get offended, everybody is greedy to a certain point; of course, including myself.)

[Marvelman]

Not all CEXs are a scam. But, it's definitely not one of the best places you could keep your funds. If you keep money there, it is well advised that you don't store large amounts. While CEX offers excellent liquidity, you're better off storing funds in an offline wallet.

I think that people think that centralized exchanges are more convenient because it is something they are used to. These exchanges typically function in a similar way to traditional stock exchanges, with users able to place buy and sell orders and the exchange matching buyers and sellers. Centralized exchanges are often seen as convenient because they offer a wide range of features and services, including support for multiple cryptocurrencies, advanced trading tools, and fiat currency support. In contrast, decentralized exchanges may not offer the same level of convenience and features as centralized exchanges, and they may have lower liquidity.

[Yatsan]

Satoshi Nakamoto designed Bitcoin as a peer-to-peer electronic cash and it does not need a third-party centralized service to handle trades. I quoted the Bitcoin White paper because people sounds like completely forgot about original idea and use case of Bitcoin.

A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution

If centralized exchanges collapse all (which I don't believe they will), Bitcoin will still be fine. Because Bitcoin is not CEX, Bitcoin is not DEX, Bitcoin is not altcoin or cryptocurrency. People want to assimilate Bitcoin and cryptocurrency but as a point of fact, they are not the same, but very different.

After Terra, Celcius, Voyager, Three Arrows Capital, FTX collapses, people are very fearful about CEX and they withdrawn a lot of bitcoins from CEX but they will deposit their bitcoins back in future. They want CEX and forget the advice "Not your keys, not your coins"

Since November, people withdrawn a lot from centralized exchanges and Daily Exchange Net Flows are very negative.
https://www.theblock.co/data/on-chain-metrics/flows/daily-net-exchange-flows

It is not only the issue but also the way people or us, using Bitcoin, of our own likeness. As mentioned in the whitepaper, Bitcoin should be used as a decentralized peer to peer transaction without the use of any financial institution. But if you would observe, Bitcoin is being more used as an asset. Most people would hesitate using it as a mode of payment because of profit concerns related to its market volatility. That is already where hypocrissy exist. People complain about issues, how governments are not using this technology and such, but we are guilty of our own ways. Many of us are pushing governments to adopt this technology but only a few has plans of really using this technology based on its true concept. So yes, I agree that we are ones who are killing this technology.

[franky1]

bitcoins peer-to-peer network does as advertised.
.. disclaimer 'once you are funded in the network, and transacting in the network'

 however the offramps and onramps to get funded in the network. thats a whole different system not described in the whitepaper or experienced in the real world

yes we should prefer hand to hand paper fiat for bitcoin to on-ramp into bitcoin for the buyer and off ramp for the seller.

yes people should be doing the "disruptive technology" models of creating new business or systems that bypass the institutional services more

but for each extra bump in the road to get people away from institutional services the harder it gets (at current experience)

EG needing to go to a ATM only in business hours to then find someone you dont know at a coffee shop to do a face to face paper fiat for bitcoin trade. is more hassle than just doing a 3minute verified wire transfer into a CEX any time of the day or night for free, while at home sipping a whisky on your online bank account

so convenience takes over

bitcoin 2009-2014 was not recognise as a currency. it was deemed a property(and legally rightfully so) this meant that regulators and institutions couldnt get their paws on the gateways to bitcoin. meaning disruptive technologies of 'payment gateways' could.

however since being defined as a currency in 2014. bitcoin allowed in institutional services to facilitate the convenience ramps in and out.

then when deemed a security in 2017(asset) SEC ramped up its over reaching jurisdictional rules of the ramps in and out

then this year deeming bitcoin a commodity even more regulators can get involved. including the EPA(environmental protections agency) (yep EPA= the PoW/PoS wars of bitcoins future roadmap)

[Ale88]

How many scandals like FTX do you need?

I see CEXs very useful because it's the easiest and safest way to buy bitcoins, the problem occurs only when people start using them as wallets. They are called exchanges for a reason. If people would use them the way they are supposed to be used then we'd have way less problems.

[jgaonkar]

In the case of branches, the less convenient part may also be true. When I use binance, I can trade many currencies, and they are legal, and when I trade on PancakeSwapper, I only trade commodities like BSC, or I use their hacked versions that are difficult to convert into cash. , and in Binance I can withdraw money in fiat form within 5 minutes from my bank account.  I think we should play now “sambad lottery ” from Nagaland state govt, instead of investing in bitcoin.  because govt is already taking steps to legalize it and take out their own currencies.

When you used to compare things together, it would have been a bit difficult and you would have understood the difference and reason for sure. There is no need to research the situation because DEX is still good, I am just saying that some people think like this.

[hZti]

How many scandals like FTX do you need?

I can assure you that there were many scandals already 10 years ago, and will be the same in 10 more years. As long as there are new people in crypto every day then this will not stop. Still things get a little bit better from year to year, even if you don't see it.

[Betwrong]

It feels sad to admit that I am largely guilty of this. Although I am not keeping funds in any CEX today, nor do I have any CEX account right now, I admit that I have used a number of them in the past. I have learned my lessons already. And while I also do not use centralized sites that offer loans, liquidity, annual ROI, etc, I can't seem to strongly convince friends not to use any of them.

But I am proud to say that I do not worship anybody in the crypto industry. I always admire those who came before us, before any altcoin was born, before the birth of a crypto industry, Satoshi and a few more, but not one right now. I know that these crypto businessmen today like Sam and CZ don't really value Bitcoin as much as the money they could get.

It doesn't matter what you were doing in the past. I think most of us here on this forum where using a CEX at one point or another, and, actually, it was a good thing for BTC during all those years. What matters is that you are not using it now, and you even try to convince your friends to follow your example.

Totally agree with OP. Let's boycott the CEXs from now on. They did a good job in the past, but it's time to move on. Let's not be the killers of what we love and value.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The less convenient part could also be true when it comes to chains.

Fair enough. I was talking solely about trading bitcoin for fiat, since the vast majority of altcoins are scams. I would point out that if you are trading for some token on BSC or wrapped bitcoin or similar, then those coins/tokens are by nature completely centralized and can be seized from your wallet (any wallet) at any time. Trading them on a DEX brings little advantage since you have zero privacy or security with them anyway.

I see CEXs very useful because it's the easiest and safest way to buy bitcoins

I don't think anyone can seriously claim that CEXs are in any way safe given the events of the past few months. There are few places riskier to send your coins to than a centralized exchange.

[NotATether]

This speculative behavior is the main reason why we have bull waves on the crypto markets. Without the speculative investments, the crypto winter will turn into a crypto ice age.

There are speculators in every industry. It just so happens that speculation in the crypto industry is more hyped because the people talking about it either made extremely high returns on their crypto or they are bitter about not making any.

[borovichok]

It feels sad to admit that I am largely guilty of this. Although I am not keeping funds in any CEX today, nor do I have any CEX account right now, I admit that I have used a number of them in the past. I have learned my lessons already. And while I also do not use centralized sites that offer loans, liquidity, annual ROI, etc, I can't seem to strongly convince friends not to use any of them.

But I am proud to say that I do not worship anybody in the crypto industry. I always admire those who came before us, before any altcoin was born, before the birth of a crypto industry, Satoshi and a few more, but not one right now. I know that these crypto businessmen today like Sam and CZ don't really value Bitcoin as much as the money they could get.

We all have have made one costly mistakes that almost drain us but look at where we are today, at least we are recalcitrant to invest in most unpopular projects in the space that we don't have full required information about. CEX do have a positive change in the market but it's highly time to switch to a new heights and adapts for what yields profits. Everyone have their own choices to make, there's numerous people that still welcome the idea to use CEX but there are those that have no business concerning using CEX. We grow knowledge at certain stage in life as we're making mistakes, so as we are taking note on them.

[LeGaulois]

They do.
Yes, Bitcoin will survive, and I don't deny it, but Bitcoin is not the same compared to a few years ago, and totally different from what it was supposed to be. Let's say the Bitcoin's ideology is now a hybrid bitcoin's ideology

You admit what I was saying. People are too lazy to look around how truly works Bitcoin. So lazy that they don't want to handle their private keys themselves. If the volume on the centralized exchange is higher, that's again people are lazy.

Question: why to use a decentralized currency in a centralized circle?

so some people are listening.

(disclaimer: using bitcoin richlists is not accurate method, but better than some. it shows a trend of more coins leaving large holder custodians than earlier this year)

People are listening because the FTX scandal is happening. Once the story is over on the media and social medias, I'm pretty sure they will come back to their favorite CEXs. (Remember, they're too lazy).
While several companies will die, whatever if it's a CEX, mining companies, etc (and it's happening, see Core Scientist and others). Some others will survive and become more stronger, so with more monopoly, more influence on the bitcoin's industry, and more centralization.

Same question for you: why to use a decentralized currency in a centralized circle? Isn't it ironic?
#followthemoney #longlifetocapitalism.

ps: I believe your data is misleading perhaps. See what I mean Bitcoin Balances on Exchanges
30D/7D change, there isn't really a trend of people leaving exchange platform
On October 31 (before FTX so): 2.08M
On December 2021: 2.35M

In yellow the BTC's price. It seems related to the price and not any event happening during 2022. And we got quite a few.



So if it's more related to the price, we may argue people start to hodl theirs coins outside but still use the CEXs when they want to trade.
That's still the same problem, using centralized stuff..

Giving your KYC data to use a non-KYC currency... That's perhaps the best joke in this industry

Fair, but the gamblers looking for a quick profit and here we can include individuals and companies bring the capitalism ideology.
The same thing we compain about with the traditionnal fincance, the same thing that make us switching to a decentralized currency.
Capitalism is the cancer in the finance/economy

"How are we supposed to deal with criminals, terrorists, money launderers, etc. who are abusing the same privacy that we so much crave for their own illicit activities?"

Nothing much. They're not able to do it properly with fiats, why they could be better with cryptos?
Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be (pseudo) anonymous, giving financial freedom, with nobody blocking you etc?

Question: why to use a decentralized currency in a centralized circle?

But they don't listen!
Places like BISQ, since @Wind_FURY talks about it, aren't difficult to use. How hard is to use Bisq? I'm sure a 10 years old children can use it after reading for some minutes.

"How are we supposed to deal with criminals, terrorists, money launderers, etc. who are abusing the same privacy that we so much crave for their own illicit activities?"

Nothing much. They're not able to do it properly with fiats, why they could be better with cryptos?
Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be (pseudo) anonymous, giving financial freedom, with nobody blocking you etc?

Question: why to use a decentralized currency in a centralized circle?

[Findingnemo]

There is no Denial in that statment because centralized exchanges are getting shittier day by day but we also have to realize the fact there is no complete alternative there for centralized exchanges for now.

Yes, there are decentralized exchanges and p2p but the volumes are nowhere comparable so it stress the real cryptocurrency enthusiast who cares about privacy still have to go with shitty regulated exchange to buy their cryptocurrencies at fair price or else they have to compromise a lot to buy with complete anonymous in huge scale.

[Anonylz]

The whole world we live in is centralized, people use centralized systems every day, how do you now expect btc to remain decentralized?
This global adoption bitcoiners shout all the time, how is it going to be truly achieved with a decentralized system? i doubt anyone will be willing to live in a country with a decentralized system of government where most information will be hidden from the people, even the government official's identity will be private, and all operations will be private. exchanges are not the problem but people who use them as their personal wallets.
Perhaps we should have our views from both sides.

[franky1]

Same question for you: why to use a decentralized currency in a centralized circle? Isn't it ironic?

having fiat and wanting bitcoin usually means needing a fiat gateway to get bitcoin. hence the CEX convenience. but it should be taught by everyone introducing friends and family to crypto. only use CEX as a entry-exit gateway.. not a custody/bank
(coin in-coin out same day.. not hoard on exchange)

ps: I believe your data is misleading perhaps. See what I mean Bitcoin Balances on Exchanges
30D/7D change, there isn't really a trend of people leaving exchange platform
On October 31 (before FTX so): 2.08M
On December 2021: 2.35M

In yellow the BTC's price. It seems related to the price and not any event happening during 2022. And we got quite a few.



So if it's more related to the price, we may argue people start to hodl theirs coins outside but still use the CEXs when they want to trade.
That's still the same problem, using centralized stuff..

WTF are you on about

there was a price movement on november 11th. so thats what your price chart shows.. (ill come back to describing what that event was)

there was a balance drop soon after that..
in december, (today) by your chart shows 1.9m not your 2.35
your own chart shows that there was no balance of 2.35



now here is the thing. the bankruptcy of ftx/media hysteria of FTX was not in october.. it was november 11th

the peak of the green and orange lines was the november 6th-11th period of cz backing out of FTX(6th) and then whistleblowing and then on the 11th ftx filing bankruptcy

the price drop on november 11th WAS the FTX EVENT

october had 2.08, early november went to 2.12(call it nov 6th)
and then boom FTX drama. and the drop

price and coin, even in your chart has not gone above october levels

[CryptSafe]

I think you are correct in this statement you have made. Like I always say in my previous comments, that centralised exchange are the government regulatory arm that checkmates activities on blockchain via centralised exchange and they indirectly make us do kyc which requires us revealing our identity through uploading of means of identity via identity card issued by government, drivers license, international passport etc.which means they have their raider on us.
 They do this to monitor transactions and people behind the transactions and the nature of the transaction. Although the centralised exchange have their own benefit in as much as they do have disadvantages.

[WatChe]

The whole world we live in is centralized, people use centralized systems every day, how do you now expect btc to remain decentralized?
This global adoption bitcoiners shout all the time, how is it going to be truly achieved with a decentralized system? i doubt anyone will be willing to live in a country with a decentralized system of government where most information will be hidden from the people, even the government official's identity will be private, and all operations will be private. exchanges are not the problem but people who use them as their personal wallets.
Perhaps we should have our views from both sides.

You are right that we live in a centralized world, our banks, data, travel details are all held by government agencies. Bitcoin was created to free our financial matters from regulating bodies. A decade since its launch there is need felt for centralized exchanges  like the country where I live bitcoin is completely banned, there is only one way I can convert bitcoin to fiat and that's through centralized exchange like binance.
I know that's not what Bitcoin is created for but we have to consider the centralized aspect into consideration also.