Deposit as an Act of Giving: Judge Rules Celsius Customers Don't Own their Money

[Darker45]

This is definitely discussed elsewhere but I just want to specifically put it here as a warning for beginners.

How many of us actually read the terms and conditions of any site we sign up for? They're usually kilometric. To those who read, how many of you actually understood the stipulations therein? To those who think they understood everything, did you consult a lawyer or any professional to make sure you got everything right?

Celsius, to those who don't know, was one of the largest crypto lending platforms in the world. Aside from offering loans, users could also invest by depositing funds to the platform. No minimum required. They could earn as high as 18.63% APY which is paid on a weekly basis. Last July of 2022, however, it went bankrupt. It owed billions to its clients.

Just a few days ago, the bankruptcy judge ruled that the money deposited by users are owned by Celsius and not by the depositors. Surprised? Unbelievable? Well, that's what each and every user agreed to when they signed up for the platform. By depositing, users are actually giving their money to Celsius. Deposit is like transferring ownership from the user to the platform.

Of Celsius' hundreds of thousands of users, was there anybody who noticed this particular term? I doubt. So, what happens now? I guess the ruling could still be appealed, but for the meantime, it seems Celsius doesn't owe a Satoshi to its client. So, those who have lost their life savings in Celsius could probably say good bye to the hope of getting it back.

Lessons?

There's only one: keep your Bitcoin to yourself! No company will have any power over your funds. No possibility of bankruptcy, mismanagement, rug pull, and others. No sneaky terms and conditions. No unfair ruling. No frozen funds, locked accounts, whatever. Forget about passive income, yield, and the like. They're baits!

Source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/01/05/celsius-crypto-bankruptcy-ruling/?isMobile=1

[1714690715]

1714690715

[tech30338]

This is definitely discussed elsewhere but I just want to specifically put it here as a warning for beginners.

How many of us actually read the terms and conditions of any site we sign up for? They're usually kilometric. To those who read, how many of you actually understood the stipulations therein? To those who think they understood everything, did you consult a lawyer or any professional to make sure you got everything right?

Celsius, to those who don't know, was one of the largest crypto lending platforms in the world. Aside from offering loans, users could also invest by depositing funds to the platform. No minimum required. They could earn as high as 18.63% APY which is paid on a weekly basis. Last July of 2022, however, it went bankrupt. It owed billions to its clients.

Just a few days ago, the bankruptcy judge ruled that the money deposited by users are owned by Celsius and not by the depositors. Surprised? Unbelievable? Well, that's what each and every user agreed to when they signed up for the platform. By depositing, users are actually giving their money to Celsius. Deposit is like transferring ownership from the user to the platform.

Of Celsius' hundreds of thousands of users, was there anybody who noticed this particular term? I doubt. So, what happens now? I guess the ruling could still be appealed, but for the meantime, it seems Celsius doesn't owe a Satoshi to its client. So, those who have lost their life savings in Celsius could probably say good bye to the hope of getting it back.

Lessons?

There's only one: keep your Bitcoin to yourself! No company will have any power over your funds. No possibility of bankruptcy, mismanagement, rug pull, and others. No sneaky terms and conditions. No unfair ruling. No frozen funds, locked accounts, whatever. Forget about passive income, yield, and the like. They're baits!

Source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/01/05/celsius-crypto-bankruptcy-ruling/?isMobile=1

That is why i don't deposit large amount in an exchange once profit I reduce the fund in an exchange and transfer it to my wallet, where i have full control, just want to add to OP post, even if the terms and condition is a bit favored the depositor, they can easily change the terms just like any other company, because its also included in the terms that we have agreed upon from the start.

[Darker45]

~snip~

That is why i don't deposit large amount in an exchange once profit I reduce the fund in an exchange and transfer it to my wallet, where i have full control, just want to add to OP post, even if the terms and condition is a bit favored the depositor, they can easily change the terms just like any other company, because its also included in the terms that we have agreed upon from the start.

That's another thing. It is normal for terms and conditions to explicitly stipulate that the company has the right to amend or change certain terms without necessarily informing the users. And everybody just clicks 'yes, I fully understand and agree' even without understanding nor agreeing. Heck, without even reading.

Many are probably like you who only invest in centralized platforms what they can afford to lose. Celsius claimed that it had around 1.7 million users in June of 2022. Let's say everyone of those believed that it's indeed safer to deposit just a small amount. The average deposit could just be $100 per user. That's already more than a hundred million of, well, donation or gift.

[lovesmayfamilis]

As a rule, they write their agreements in very small print, which in most cases leads to the fact that customers simply do not tire their eyes and may not see conditions that might not suit them. On the contrary, the entire wrapper of the project is drawn up in a large and colorful color, which completely discourages the desire to think about all the shortcomings, creating the illusion of success and popularity.
The problem is that most clients are not legally educated and do not understand all the risks of investing in various kinds of platforms, but the advertising noise that the Celsius platform has also dealt with makes them take risks, hoping for quick pluses, which in the end, as usual, led to their own problems.

[Solosanz]

just want to add to OP post, even if the terms and condition is a bit favored the depositor, they can easily change the terms just like any other company, because its also included in the terms that we have agreed upon from the start.

I don't have any intention to defend Celsius, but a large company like Celsius wouldn't change their terms of service without any notification, usually they will mail the updated terms of service on the email you're use to create an account on Celsius.

I think with this rule, any company would updated their terms of service in order to make their company doesn't have any responsibility to refund to their users. So they can escape from the money they owe, sadly Sam Bankman Fried is too quickly get jailed before Celsius bankrupt lol.

[JeromeTash]

All this could be avoided if most people who keep money in the custodial DeFis were smart enough and followed one of the most important rules in crypto "Not your keys, not your coins"
I was disappointed in a friend who fell for this DeFi trap, yet she's been around crypto since 2017 and now all she can do is regret what she did to entrust Celsius network with her savings.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

This is a good practical scenario if not your keys not your coins indeed, which means anyone using this centralized exchanges is but only contributing a freewill donation to them in which they can decide to return you back your donation at will or decided not to, they can win every case filed against them because most investors don't even take their time in reading the policy terms from using those exchanges, the worst case is that some of them don't even get hacked, but went bankrupt because the founders uses customer's asset to gamble their own enterprise.

[Pmalek]

I don't have any intention to defend Celsius, but a large company like Celsius wouldn't change their terms of service without any notification, usually they will mail the updated terms of service on the email you're use to create an account on Celsius.

Companies don't have to to point out what specifics were changed. They might just say something vague like, our terms of service have been updated, please take a look at what has changed. And they just email you the link to their TOS. Now it's up to you to go through the document and see for yourself. Banking institutions do that, for example. My bank never tells me what changed, just that something did.

This is particularly true if the changes are not in favor of the users. The email is not going to highlight points that make that service worse because they are running a business. Their intention is to present themselves as a strong and quality company, and not one with evident faults.   

[hugeblack]

Even if all the terms of use are in your favour, reaching a final ruling in such cases may take many years, and then, most likely, your currencies will be covered in dollars, not in bitcoins, and therefore you lose money that you could have doubled easily if you bought bitcoin and forgot it instead of getting interest at 18.63% APY.

It is also rare to find terms of service that stand by customers.

[drwhobox]

I have learned my lesson from OP's thread, I can tell that most of the people don't read the terms and conditions I am also one of them, and the rest who read it  don't understand it clearly or they don't bother about it.
That flashy 18.63% APY was all they cared about, now they lost all of their bitcoins.

That is why i don't deposit large amount in an exchange once profit I reduce the fund in an exchange and transfer it to my wallet, where i have full control, just want to add to OP post, even if the terms and condition is a bit favored the depositor, they can easily change the terms just like any other company, because its also included in the terms that we have agreed upon from the start.

In exchange, you will keep whatever amount of coin you need, not more not less. That's why before making a deposit into an exchange spend a lot of time researching about them.

That is why i don't deposit large amount in an exchange once profit I reduce the fund in an exchange and transfer it to my wallet

Withdrawing funds from exchanges after every profitable trade is not a good idea for me, you keep them paying fees for doing it over and over again. Withdraw them once you finished playing with the funds.

Celsius, to those who don't know, was one of the largest crypto lending platforms in the world. Aside from offering loans, users could also invest by depositing funds to the platform.

OP is talking about a lending platform which also offers 18.63% APY to its investors. The terms and conditions of most of the exchanges are more or less same but also read them and the best solution is to choose a reputed exchange.