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Author Topic: Acquiring bitcoin with cash - what, why, how  (Read 298 times)
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o_e_l_e_o
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January 17, 2023, 09:02:47 AM
 #21

i don't just assume it is a scam. even something like bisq, the seller has to send their btc to an address out of their control. and trust the people that run it to do the right things...
I don't think the lending platform itself is a scam by any means. But from a quick look it seems to be that you can only lend or borrow various stablecoins or wrapped/tokenized bitcoin. All of these tokens/coins are entirely centralized, in many cases not backed up fully and running fractional reserve, and also there are no guarantees whatsoever that their price is pegged to USD/bitcoin/whatever. So although HodlHodl's platform is perfectly legit, the coins they are supporting are pretty much scams, as far as I am concerned.

maybe that's why. another reason might be paypal reports crypto transactions to the irs or other government taxing authority not sure if they do but i would assume so.
I would work under the assumption that anything you do on a KYCed platform, be that a crypto exchange or fiat service like PayPal, is easily viewable by your government or tax authority should they want.

anyone using something like bisq or agoradesk is not a newbie and they have their reasons. no one just wonders on to a site like that and starts buying bitcoin with paypal. it's either some or all of those things or they are trying to scam.
Or maybe they just want a bit of financial privacy and not to have their bitcoin under the control of third parties. Which was the entire reason bitcoin was created in the first place. I would point out that I have traded on various peer to peer platforms extensively and have never once been scammed. A few misunderstandings which have been fairly easily resolved, sure, but never an active scam.
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BlackHatCoiner (OP)
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January 17, 2023, 05:38:27 PM
 #22

i'll have to look into how they have it set up a bit more detail. i don't just assume it is a scam. even something like bisq, the seller has to send their btc to an address out of their control. and trust the people that run it to do the right things...
The seller can find a trustworthy buyer, though. There are also several measures that protect you somewhat from getting scammed.

no one just wonders on to a site like that and starts buying bitcoin with paypal. it's either some or all of those things or they are trying to scam.
Are you saying that DEX users are mostly scammers or am I misunderstanding here?

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larry_vw_1955
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January 18, 2023, 05:16:21 AM
 #23

All of these tokens/coins are entirely centralized, in many cases not backed up fully and running fractional reserve, and also there are no guarantees whatsoever that their price is pegged to USD/bitcoin/whatever. So although HodlHodl's platform is perfectly legit, the coins they are supporting are pretty much scams, as far as I am concerned.
well, you either have a centralized stablecoin (USDC, USDP(paxos), USDT) or it is decentralized (DAI). I guess each has it's own tradeoffs. But there is going to be NO perfect stablecoin. the whole point of a lending platform is to obtain a cash equivalent for using some crypto (btc in this case) as collateral. so you must be against the premise of a lending platform entirely. although i do suppose a site like bisq could introduce lending to their protocol where cash was used instead of stablecoins...

Quote
I would work under the assumption that anything you do on a KYCed platform, be that a crypto exchange or fiat service like PayPal, is easily viewable by your government or tax authority should they want.
don't forget your bank account. anything going out of or into your bank account that can be audited could be audited.  Shocked

Quote
Or maybe they just want a bit of financial privacy and not to have their bitcoin under the control of third parties.
Which was the entire reason bitcoin was created in the first place. I would point out that I have traded on various peer to peer platforms extensively and have never once been scammed. A few misunderstandings which have been fairly easily resolved, sure, but never an active scam.
well, as a buyer on these p2p platforms, i have a hard time seeing how someone could get scammed. the sellers are the ones that have to be more careful since many of these payment methods can be charged back later on down the road, 30 days, 60 days what have you...there is no seller protection once the bitcoins get released. then you're on your own. so you better hope they don't try and scam.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner
Are you saying that DEX users are mostly scammers or am I misunderstanding here?
I hope that's not the case. I mean the ones I'm suspicious of are buyers that want to pay using something like cashapp,wise transferwise, paypal who has little or no feedback ratings. yeah i think of those as scammers. they are probably getting fake id and opening up these accounts with these money transfer services. no doubt about that. it's pretty well known that some of these money transfer services will close people's accounts that are using them for any type of e-commerce which looks suspicious to them. enough said.

Quote
The seller can find a trustworthy buyer, though.
This.
Probably how o_e_l_e_o hasn't been scammed in his many DEX adventures.  Cool
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January 18, 2023, 08:12:00 AM
 #24

well, you either have a centralized stablecoin (USDC, USDP(paxos), USDT) or it is decentralized (DAI).
I don't know what's DAI, but there cannot be a really decentralized stablecoin in fiat, as it's against its nature. A stablecoin is pegged to another currency. If that currency isn't decentralized (such as bitcoin), then whatever manner you choose to maintain the 1:1 peg, yours isn't either. There can be a bitcoin stablecoin, with the use of cryptography, but there cannot be a fiat stablecoin, due to the lack of transparency.

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January 18, 2023, 10:34:50 AM
Merited by larry_vw_1955 (1)
 #25

But there is going to be NO perfect stablecoin.
Agreed. So I never use them.

don't forget your bank account. anything going out of or into your bank account that can be audited could be audited.
Also correct. Which is why cash is a popular peer to peer trading method.

well, as a buyer on these p2p platforms, i have a hard time seeing how someone could get scammed. the sellers are the ones that have to be more careful since many of these payment methods can be charged back later on down the road, 30 days, 60 days what have you...there is no seller protection once the bitcoins get released. then you're on your own. so you better hope they don't try and scam.
Again, this is solved by using cold, hard cash, which obviously can't be charged back. There is also the other party's account reputation to consider. Is someone going to risk their account with 1000+ positive feedback to scam you out of a few hundred bucks?

Probably how o_e_l_e_o hasn't been scammed in his many DEX adventures.
Exactly. Start small, choose reputable trading partners, trade with the same person multiple times to build further trust, and don't use methods which are easily reversible.
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January 19, 2023, 02:38:08 AM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #26

Quote from: larry_vw
But there is going to be NO perfect stablecoin.
Quote from: author o_e_l_e_o
Agreed. So I never use them.

Yesterday I noticed some person on HodlHodl was trying to borrow like $10,000 USDC at like 2% APR. wonder what he plans to use that for.  Shocked He's taking a risk that the platform he stakes it on doesn't go belly up and the lender is taking a risk that USDC won't suffer any type of depegging event during the loan period. I am not entirely sure but I think the lender also has a risk exposure to the collateral have a price spike down such that it cannot be liquidated at the loan amount but only less. I guess you would also penalize me if I didn't point out that both lender and borrower have risk exposure that their USDC will be frozen by Circle.  Grin

Quote from: author o_e_l_e_o
Again, this is solved by using cold, hard cash, which obviously can't be charged back. There is also the other party's account reputation to consider. Is someone going to risk their account with 1000+ positive feedback to scam you out of a few hundred bucks?
Nope. I wouldn't expect them to. Same reason I buy from sellers on ebay with good feedback ratings. Those type of sellers care about keeping a good rating so I know they'll ship fast and provide a tracking #. I've found it to be very rare to ever have any issue with sellers like that.

Quote
Exactly. Start small, choose reputable trading partners, trade with the same person multiple times to build further trust, and don't use methods which are easily reversible.
Thanks for the tips.
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January 20, 2023, 08:16:01 AM
 #27

Does the UK still have crypto atms? I read they were being considered "unauthorised" but don't know if they were actually banned or if it was more something the fca put out in writing.

I did an exchange a few years ago for a cash deposit (back before localbitcoins required kyc) and it felt the safest way to do things - the buyer was very communicative throughout too and there was no meeting up or chance they'd used counterfeit funds.



This site lists operational ATMs in UK location wise

https://coinatmradar.com/country/225/bitcoin-atm-united-kingdom/

I checked news related to legality and there are old articles stating that these ATMs are illegal as declared by the regulator. I will suggest you to wait for replies from members here who are from UK. They can explain ground reality in this case.
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