Bitcoin vs CBDC - Spread the Word

[kryptqnick]

I haven't seen this website before, thanks for sharing this! It's really cool that there's a map, but also links to news articles that show the evidence based on which a country has a certain colour on the map. I checked a couple of countries, and all seems to be accurate to me. What I want to add, though, that experimenting or intending to experiment with a CBDC doesn't mean going against Bitcoin. For example, Ukraine does plan to work on a fiat CBDC in the future, but it's also already quite crypto-friendly and is planning to set up pro-crypto regulations along with potentially launching a CBDC (for more on the topic, see this thread). These aren't seen as competitors, they don't have to be.

[cr1776]

Authoritarians and totalitarians the world over want power and control and CBDCs give it to them.  They are nothing special from the tech side, just a database, but for the power-hungry politicians, they are a dream: a centralized, censorable, controlled database of every transaction.

Owning bitcoin is one way to protect yourself.  Getting others to do so will help them eventually.

[hatshepsut93]

It doesn't matter at what stage CBDC is, it's not going to get adopted, because it's an inferior product to banks and electronic payment systems. CBDC when it's released will be plagued with problems like high fees, bugs, outages, poor customer service, data leaks and so on. Why would people want to switch to it? Add here the distrust that most people around the world feel towards their government.

And CBDC is not a direct competitor of Bitcoin. It's a direct competitor of privately-owned fiat payment networks.

[DooMAD]

what people spout out sounds more tinfoil than factual

And just so I've got it straight... when YOU come up with crackpot conspiracy theories, it's because you've "run scenarios" and when other people raise legitimate concerns about government overreach, it's because "they haven't done enough research"?  And at all points in the history of ever, you've always done more research and run more scenarios than every other living creature on the face of the planet.  Is that about the sum of it?

It couldn't possibly be that you're an obnoxious, contrarian asshat who doesn't form conclusions in the same way that rational and mentally-stable people form conclusions?   

[franky1]

DooMAD, stay off the drugs..
when the people you see that you like that (metaphorically: go to your house party) are the ones that agree with you. does not mean you are right... because, guess what.  they are just as high and paranoid as you..
emphasis: it just means you are high and paranoid along with them

try to sober up.
take control of your paranoia and see if it is an actual threat made against you in your home. or a thing you have in your head scaring you daily in your home
base your opinions on data, facts, laws, code. real events.. not opinions of people you like because they sound like you

and meet people outside of your house party. in the fresh air outside of your narrow view of the world. take the time to look for real information. rather then youtubing/tweet searching things that fit your paranoias that confirm your paranoia is justified

..
yes fiat has flaws, pitfalls, and is not perfect, and thats why bitcoin was invented to be something different. to be better and hedge against fiat, and thus hedge against CBDC

..
oh and if you think you do make rational opinions based on fact.
show me the block data that supports your version of bitcoin history.. ive asked you for years to back your crap up.. still waiting for your charts of block flags and lacks of forks and natural transitions of bitcoin code evolution without sponsored roadmap plans..
..
as for how monetary policy works. show me the financial laws that support your version. where you think currency AKA bank notes are private property and where privacy of currency is law

currency is not the same as property. there is no right of privacy in regards to currency.
now go check it out read a book, but first .. GET SOBER
maybe then you can have a rational thought.

all i ever hear you cry is "franky is wrong because he hurts my buddies opinion"

i can back my opinions up by blockdata and research of actual source material.

have you even bothered to look at a layout of any CBDC. or did you just come to this topic just to poke at me with yet another

"franky is wrong because he hurts my buddies opinion"

main difference(apart from opinion) between me and you.. im not here to get my ass kissed and recruit idiots
i prefer to correct idiots. and yes im frank about it literally.

the day that bitcoin lost its "private property: privacy rights" is the day mainstreamers of government lobby helped get bitcoin declared a "currency" in ~2014.. and so allowed in the jurisdiction of the bank secrecy act that delegates regulated payment services to police their customers

if you can understand how currency law works. you can start to see the big picture of both fiat, cbdc and how bitcoin is being treated differently since ~2014

[pooya87]

it actually is worth while doing research, it might help you understand the realities of matters. rather than the social tinfoil brigade opinion

Have you been living under a rock or something?
Take your own advice and do some research into all the top secret documents that have been leaked over the years, some that were declassified, etc. to understand how surveillance is working 24/7 in real world. Specially by military organization that I mentioned above.

[franky1]

it actually is worth while doing research, it might help you understand the realities of matters. rather than the social tinfoil brigade opinion

Have you been living under a rock or something?
Take your own advice and do some research into all the top secret documents that have been leaked over the years, some that were declassified, etc. to understand how surveillance is working 24/7 in real world. Specially by military organization that I mentioned above.

i see you want to hide under a rock
how about come to the realisation that politicians dont sit at computers "watching you" they are just self employed contractors living by 4 year work contracts, trying to get paid to do as little as possible. they love to delegate work out to others.
where in america due to capitalism that is mainly private businesses doing it for profits.
where the agencies you speak of are private businesses with their own business policies and their own property rights as business owners of the products they have patents on and policies to protect them, where they lobby the politician via bribery into giving those private businesses powers.

so when you shout "government totalitarianism"  when reality is a democracy of 1 vote per 4 year society, combined with capitalism
and yes its private businesses who are the ones "watching you"
then you might be able to see how they get to do what they do. by reading the laws and business policies
regulators are run by ex-bankers not politicians.
banks and payment services are a business
prisons are a business.
its all about the money business.

i see government not as some citizen owned property. but as .. basically a gym (a service that gets people all hot and sweaty and using up their energy)
we are gym members, paying our gym membership fees(taxes) to then get to use the gyms services and products, we dont own said services or products. but as members we get to vote on who the gym managers and trainers are every 4 years when they are contractually told to allow a management change. and that is all we get as our sense of control
unless we can understand their gym policies of how to petition the gym to change the rules for our benefit,, which 99% of members dont realise

fiat money is not citizen property. its gym property. their patent, their product they print and then subcontract out that accountant to a business(commercial banks and payment services)

when you start to see them as businesses using their property rights to set policy on their product(s) you then start to see how fiat is not "yours" you are just the bearer, given a promise. where the promise may never be met but people trust it thus lulled into a sense of security to trust the banks, whilst they have the power to control their product and police it and police those who bear their product

ans slowly due to "main streaming" like defining bitcoin as "currency" we are giving them power to control certain businesses related to bitcoin

[LDL]

CBDC is a digital currency system approved by central banks and governments. It started its journey in 2017-18 but is widely discussed and analyzed in 2022. Although several issues have worked behind it, including stable coin UST crashed, FTX scandal these two events are largely responsible for creating people's interest in CBCD. One thing to keep in mind is that Central Banks and Governments will never focus on cryptocurrencies because Governments and Central Banks know very well that Cryptocurrencies cannot be controlled by governments or central banks. And the central bank and the government will always introduce some system in which the government and the central bank have control.  If CBCD is widely approved and accepted, Bitcoin and cryptocurrency will change drastically. Some are calling CBCD the Bitcoin killer.

[BlackHatCoiner]

yes fiat has flaws, pitfalls, and is not perfect, and thats why bitcoin was invented to be something different. to be better and hedge against fiat, and thus hedge against CBDC

That wasn't the reason it was invented. Ever.

fiat money is not citizen property. its gym property

Your analogy is flawed. I don't know where you live (I'm still questioning UK, because you don't know English), but politicians here don't get to choose the quantity of money, because we're a deeply in debt guinea pig of the EU, and thus have very little effect.

[franky1]

yes fiat has flaws, pitfalls, and is not perfect, and thats why bitcoin was invented to be something different. to be better and hedge against fiat, and thus hedge against CBDC

That wasn't the reason it was invented. Ever.

fiat money is not citizen property. its gym property

Your analogy is flawed. I don't know where you live (I'm still questioning UK, because you don't know English), but politicians here don't get to choose the quantity of money, because we're a deeply in debt guinea pig of the EU, and thus have very little effect.

yet you and your chums are the ones shouting "government"
funny now you are shying away from saying politicians

heres the thing. in america for example. TODAY the bankers are lobbying politicians to make a decision in bankers favour for the "debt ceiling"(how much new minted money the treasury can print for bankers going forward)
as for the english language
its more broader than your narrow (american) translator
if you dont know the terms of "dog and bone" to mean phone.
if you dont know the terms of "knickers" to mean female underpants
if you dont know the terms of "flip flop" to mean inconsistent/capricious
if you dont know the terms of "cry baby" "fangirl" to mean antagonist others based on idolising an influencer

then you dont know enough english

if you think english is about where a full stop is or a capital letter or an apostrophe is. . you are confusing english with grammar

in a discussion, in english spoken discussion.. people do not actually pronounce and say coma, full stop.
so if you are crying about grammar. know this one thing.
this is a discussion forum not a grammar paper being graded

english is not restricted to the narrow view of needing to be a A+ graded grammar paper to be called "english"
maybe if you come to england one day and visit places like hackney, leicester, manchester and newcastle. it may give you a broader scope of how english really is

i am not here to present my thoughts in a americanised grammar perfect narrative so that your translator can function

i already hate having to convert pounds to dollars whenever talking about bitcoin prices. i already hate having to use american examples due to how many people here only understand american. but i do play ball to a certain extent, just to save time

[cryptosize]

Control Beyond Dreams Confirmed

[franky1]

Control Beyond Dreams Confirmed

Federally Insured And Taxed

Commercial Businesses Delegated Custodian

[dkbit98]

What I want to add, though, that experimenting or intending to experiment with a CBDC doesn't mean going against Bitcoin. For example, Ukraine does plan to work on a fiat CBDC in the future, but it's also already quite crypto-friendly and is planning to set up pro-crypto regulations along with potentially launching a CBDC

Oh please don't be so naive, they are allowing us to play with Bitcoin for people to get used on digital currencies, wallets and qr codes, but once they move to CBDC globally they can easily make Bitcoin illegal, and send people to prison if they use it.
Most of the genpop don't care about anything else than convenience and cbdc will be very convenient for sure, just like coupons with expiration date

CBDC is just the world banksters following a hype trying to keep their relevance in a world that has a decentralized currency called bitcoin. I don't see the point in it and I see even less point in printing stickers and bitching about it on social media because it won't change a thing.

I didn't say printing stickers will change anything, but this helps in spreading word and people may actually do research about CBDC instead of blindly accepting any mainstream narrative.
I am sure they will present CBDC as life saving tool after they pump this current global fiat economy system to explosion in near future.
People is China are so brainwashed they will be the first to accept this, and they will do it gladly, and people who like this should move to China right now to experience this ''benefits''.

[franky1]

What I want to add, though, that experimenting or intending to experiment with a CBDC doesn't mean going against Bitcoin. For example, Ukraine does plan to work on a fiat CBDC in the future, but it's also already quite crypto-friendly and is planning to set up pro-crypto regulations along with potentially launching a CBDC

Oh please don't be so naive, they are allowing us to play with Bitcoin for people to get used on digital currencies, wallets and qr codes, but once they move to CBDC globally they can easily make Bitcoin illegal,

dont be so sure on that either. the central banks are actually negotiating with the BIS to be allowed to hold some bitcoin for central bank trading internally(their banking sector wholesale markets between each other) by 2025
https://www.pymnts.com/cryptocurrency/2022/bis-sets-limits-on-bank-exposure-to-crypto-markets/

yep central banks couldnt by BIS policy hoard or trade bitcoin internally before due to BIS terms.. but they are pushing the BIS to allow it.. initially CBDC wanted 5% buffer space of possible collateral in bitcoin, the BIS is settling to accept about 2%(things may change by 202 when the draft becomes final policy)

it really does help to do some research from source locations like from the central bank international settlement governors that set central bank policy

you can also learn alot about types of CBDC from reading other stuff from the BIS including their m-bridge (the IMF of CBDC)

[serjent05]

Haha trust me printing stickers and resisting is not going to be effective at all. This way is exactly similar to governments shouting against Cryptos telling that they are a scam they are risky they are fraudulent. CBDC is just their answer to tackle Cryptos and trust me it will never affect Crypto market in any way. Only thing it will effect is fiat. People are into crypto either for it's value appreciation or for it's decentralised and confidential mechanism and none of them can be provided by a CBDC. So chill out CBDC cannot harm Cryptos.

Also, CBDC is the government solution for cryptocurrency volatility.  The government is made aware of the importance of Blockchain but they cannot simply accept any cryptocurrency because they don't have control over it so they create CBDC.  The government also noticed the high volatility and non-regulation of cryptocurrency which they think is a negative thing so they created CBDC to fully control the network and spy on the wealth of their constituents.

The sad part about CBDC is it is closed source, and private making us unable to verify the codes they implemented on the application that will run their CBDCs.

[DooMAD]

The introduction of CBDCs will be all about 'nudge theory' and social manipulation.  They'll take a very soft approach with it initially, but will gradually make it ubiquitous.  By design, it will be easy to get onboard, but getting out again will be considerably more challenging.  And when they have enough people ensnared, that's when they'll tighten the noose.  

Once you have an entire populace reliant on a system which holds the potential for total surveillance and control, it's only a matter of time before someone in authority tries to corrupt that system to further their own goals or agendas.  

It's vital people are made aware of the potential for abuse with this.  It's a dystopian nightmare-in-the-making.

[pooya87]

I am sure they will present CBDC as life saving tool after they pump this current global fiat economy system to explosion in near future.

Your problem is that you think CBDC and the current "global fiat system" are separate from each other. But they are the same exact thing. Besides, they've been printing fiat in digital form for many years now and only a small percentage of it is in cash form (there is no enough paper on earth to print all of it!). Whether it is called digital banking or CBDC is not going to change that.
As I said this is just a hype that banksters are following.

People is China are so brainwashed they will be the first to accept this, and they will do it gladly, and people who like this should move to China right now to experience this ''benefits''.

There is no difference between people in China and their level of brainwashedness and people elsewhere.
Have you forgotten how many people celebrated the day PayPal started selling bitcoin without even having any bitcoins to their dumb users while not letting anybody withdraw?
If PayPal, Bank of America, etc. suddenly revealed PP-coin tomorrow the same people will still be happy and buy that centralized altcoin.

[dkbit98]

Your problem is that you think CBDC and the current "global fiat system" are separate from each other. But they are the same exact thing. Besides, they've been printing fiat in digital form for many years now and only a small percentage of it is in cash form (there is no enough paper on earth to print all of it!). Whether it is called digital banking or CBDC is not going to change that.
As I said this is just a hype that banksters are following.

They are not the same because CBDC can only be implemented if cash is removed from use.
Second, CBDC will have expiration date like coupons, and they will be connected with digital ID, that is something we don't have currently.
I see that you don't know anything about CBDC so I suggest reading more before you are making comparions with current fiat monetary system or something else.

There is no difference between people in China and their level of brainwashedness and people elsewhere.

You probably never visited Chain and you don't know how things work there, but they are already functioning almost like obedient robots.
I know people who lived and worked in China, and there is a huge difference with people in the rest of the world, that is why they are testing ground for new stuff.

Have you forgotten how many people celebrated the day PayPal started selling bitcoin without even having any bitcoins to their dumb users while not letting anybody withdraw?
If PayPal, Bank of America, etc. suddenly revealed PP-coin tomorrow the same people will still be happy and buy that centralized altcoin.

I never celebrated that and I don't anyone anyone who celebrated PayPal started selling Bitcoin.

It's vital people are made aware of the potential for abuse with this.  It's a dystopian nightmare-in-the-making.

Yeah, but try to explain this to tik-tok generation

[franky1]

CBDC is the same policies as fiat. same delegated roles of financial institutions(commercial banks/payment services policing customers)
same suspect reporting same court order seizure system.. and yes that includes china's e-yuan

yep china has not nor is nor will be a "one wallet one app" system. unlike what certain people probably heard on their trump favouring news media
yep some of you are mind blown.. right? itsing to press the reply button that franky is wrong coz "fox news said"
well sorry to burst your nightmares..  china has never and is not preparing to be a one bank, one app system

it really does pay to do research away from social circles and certain media circles

and no there is not a "CBDC online balance expiry dates".. there is however,idea's /theories to include, as a backup monetary system.. a physical coupon as a backstop for remote locations with bad internet/electric to still allow people to trade offline.. during communication outages..

take canada's explanation
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/swp2021-67.pdf

in short those coupons will be smart cash. where if its not deposited back into an app after X months. its not declared lost. its just cancels the coupon validity and the value returns to the last known recipient, obviously giving people plenty of time to claim/mark the new recipient to refresh the expiry and keep the coupon in circulation

[DooMAD]

CBDC is the same policies as fiat. same delegated roles of financial institutions(commercial banks/payment services policing customers)
same suspect reporting same court order seizure system.. and yes that includes china's e-yuan

AT THE MOMENT.

The thing about centralised programmable money is that someone can change the rules.  And obviously they're not going to do anything to make it look unappealing until everyone is onboarded and unable to escape.  That's when it will suddenly become the authoritarian's wet dream.  For those who don't avoid the trap, it'll be too late to do anything about it by that point.