Gavin Andresen calls it a "mistake" to trust CSW

[franky1]

NDA is applicable when dealing with national security or contracts with high monetary risks, I am not aware of a NDA where keeping silent is considered as obstruction of justice, unless there are some stupid rules in US or other countries that allow such a thing.

NDA are not valid reason to decline answering in criminal law..
bit in civil law(contract law) NDA are applicable

and CSW loves doing civil cases where his "witnesses" for his side are all contracted up to be his silent sheep, or pleet out the bahh's of whatever CSW shepherds them to say

however if there was ever a criminal case against CSW his cards will fall fast where he cant rely on his NDA and the witnesses can get penalised by the courts for lying/withholding evidence and such

side note comedy observation

a certain group of idiots in this forum(and they appear in this topic) seem obviously sponsored/bribed to sing a certain song sheet about certain things they say for the last few years that defend a certain corporate brand that wants bitcoin bloated and expensive to then promote some other flawed subnetwork as the offramp people should move over to.

you can spot the usual signs. they defend a certain thing with the same rehearsed words. they lack independent thought of wanting research, nor can they back up their narrative with block-data or code. they just want to use social networks of quotes of other followers as their proofs


they dont want code fixes for code bugs. nor to strengthen consensus... they instead sing the echoed song sheet of wanting soft consensus to remain and continue to allow the bloat, where by they also want to abuse fees of everyone to increase.. as their fix for the spam they want tolerated.

they, by appearing to act like idiots by defending a certain agenda.. sounds familiar right..? wright?

[pooya87]

Andresen was clearly playing games, or a total idiot, and thus disqualifies himself from the list of "people to listen to"

That's a fact that you and I know but if we look through the eyes of newcomers Andresen is someone who could be made to look like an "expert" who knows what he is talking about. Lest we forget that we live in a society that average people tend to easily believe random stuff they read on the internet.

Why is Gavin Andresen a idiot? I have been around more long enough not to be known as a newcomer but I do not know why the btc community is so hostile towards him? From what I have read he has always been level headed and done what he thought was best for the btc community and it was a big loss when he stopped developing for btc.

A couple of years ago someone called Craig Wright starts claiming to be the real creator of bitcoin, Satoshi Nakamoto. Then this person starts contacting different bitcoin experts to convince them to support his claims. One of them is Gavin Adresen. Only Gavin is convinced after the meeting with the scammer and without seeing any reliable proof. Gavin then starts supporting his claim (read the article in OP).

Someone who does this is either an idiot or malicious. I tend to think the later.

[BitcoinMoses]

It is getting to get very hit.  What we need to understand it the core point of the element.  How about the true fact without fiction regarding the relationship of the two, called Craig Wright and Gavin Andresen ? 

There must be some top secret between them but all that masterminded by a third person name Jon Matonis. In the real fact It is Gavin Bell and Jon Matonis who hired Craig Wright quickly in 2016 because I woke up after some years in 2014 because just protect my old friend Dorian Nakamoto.

Finally they, all together stopped me to reveal my identity by putting Craig on BBC stage where he proved by signing message with public key because he has no clues of PGP and Bitcoin as he was a "Newbie" the Bitcoin Drama.

I think, it is time for me clean the Bitcoin Space and put to rest the question who is satoshi nakamoto ?  And we can move forward in the next stage of Bitcoin mass adoption buy you know, without Bitcoin drama in the real world in real time many thing go "slowmo" so let's stop paying too much attention to other things and focus on Bitcoin market development and governments intentions if Bitcoin and all crypto currency need to be regulated ?

Craig is a great actor, he is playing his role as you all playing yours. I am just watching and wondering about the whole thing. Every one knows the an extraordinary claim requires an extra ordinary evidence. Craig said, he stomed on the Satoshis Hard drive and destroyed the Private Keys of Satoshi. Now, is saying some one has stollen the encrypted private keys of Tulip Trust and he is now filled case against my 12 Deciples and demanding to change the Bitcoin code. What a nonsense ?  Bitcoin code was not developed by my 12  deciples known as  bitcoin developers, it I, Am Satoshi Nakamoto, I wrote the Bitcoin code and all my 32 disciples and appostles together helping me by running the Bitcoin System Software smoothly. If any one try to break the Bitcoin then by scamming legal enforcement, I will not tolerate it.

It is time for my 12 disciples to contact me. So we together can teach a tough lesson to any one who impersonate me to scam investors or governments.

[franky1]

@moses
you have no clue about the history of bitcoin... (socially or technically)
.. take a few months off and learn some stuff

it was actually CSW plus his investors that reached out and contacted a bitcoin conference organiser to contact her contacts of well known people to see who would be willing to get paid to visit CSW

everything else you saying to try to attempt to get yourself involved in all that drama is just BS

you are not well versed in the history, nor even how bitcoin works.
accept your flaws. and realise you are not convincing anyone

[BitcoinMoses]

@moses
you have no clue about the history of bitcoin... (socially or technically)
.. take a few months off and learn some stuff

it was actually CSW plus his investors that reached out and contacted a bitcoin conference organiser to contact her contacts of well known people to see who would be willing to get paid to visit CSW

everything else you saying to try to attempt to get yourself involved in all that drama is just BS

you are not well versed in the history, nor even how bitcoin works.
accept your flaws. and realise you are not convincing anyone

Listen Mr fanky1, you were not there when I was discussing Bitcoin for the first time on 5th May in IRC. I am Gavin Andresen here, my IRC nick was Gavin but not Gavin Bell. Do you understand. You need to know first who was behind the nick Gavin Andresen ?  You have no clues, why I chose Gavin Bell and gave him my own IRC nick "Gavin Andresen". It is my business not yours. You have found opportunity with my invention Bitcoin and Blockchain, you are lucky and you must know who is behind the amount BitcoinMoses ? 

Just stop attacking me other wise first I will reveal your Identity  before I reveal mine. Why can't you just use your own wisdom and ethics you talk about. I know Craig Wright since 4 May 2007. Stop lecturing me.

[franky1]

@moses
so your claims are that you are satoshi.. and gavin.. whilst it seems your actually playing the part of CSW by doing these games of yours

so your claiming you know about the history and also know about bitcoin
yet your posts have soo many errors and inaccuracies that are soo bad, that you are just debunking yourself by even trying to make the claims you make

dont waste months on trying to pretend your some early adopter or developer. becasue you are wasting your own time..
take a few months off and spend it learning about what bitcoin really is and does. and how you can if you grew some morals find a lawful and ethical way to make an income rather than your shady games you have played in recent months


oh by the way. this forum stores users posts. so its easy to see what games you have been playing. so there is no point in acting like your newest post is the only one anyone has ever seen about you and your games

[o_e_l_e_o]

It would seem I neglected to make this thread self-moderated. Please stop derailing this thread before I lock it.

[AverageGlabella]

Now Craig has filed case against 12 developers. What is next ?

It is obvious what is next. CSW will continue to make himself look like a idiot but that is why he is famous because he has tried to take over the btc community and tried to expose the most important people in btc with false accusations. Claiming to be satoshi without any proof and some people believe him. This will continue until he gets his goal in destroying btc or he gets put in jail for the slander cases he has made.

Gavin needs to come out with a better public statement denouncing CSW because even if some members here do not like him any more he still has a influence on members in the community and he can use that to do some good by coming out with a stronger statement against CSW

[Lucius]

~snip~
Now Craig has filed case against 12 developers. What is next ?

Maybe you're next on his "what I need to do" list, because you claim to be Satoshi Nakamoto the same way Faketoshi does, without any evidence.

~snip~
Gavin needs to come out with a better public statement denouncing CSW because even if some members here do not like him any more he still has a influence on members in the community and he can use that to do some good by coming out with a stronger statement against CSW

Which members does he influence in any way? To those who have no idea who he is at all, or to those who know very well what he has done, and by that I mean all those bad things from the time when he allegedly cared about Bitcoin? That man has 0% real influence, and he'd be better off crawling under a rock and staying there. He is fake to the same extent as the faker he supported.

[AverageGlabella]

Which members does he influence in any way? To those who have no idea who he is at all, or to those who know very well what he has done, and by that I mean all those bad things from the time when he allegedly cared about Bitcoin? That man has 0% real influence, and he'd be better off crawling under a rock and staying there. He is fake to the same extent as the faker he supported.

I did not know. I recently learned about the problems with his involvement and I bet any newbie will be more easily fooled to believe he still has influence in the btc community. If you search Gavin online you can see multiple sources talking about how he was important and the things he did for btc. None of them report on the controversies involving him. I think at one time he was important to btc and did a lot of good things but he seemed to lose his way and I can see why members here question him but the OP admits that he still has influence and they are one of the most informed members on the forum. I think Gavin could amend a lot of the criticism he has received and a good way to start would be publicly condemning CSW.

[kryptqnick]

History can't be rewritten, but it's important to recognize one's own mistakes, both personally and publicly. Given the significance of Gavin himself (especially before he chose to support Bitcoin Cash, which undoubtedly some saw as a bad decision), his support of the idea that Craig is Satoshi was a significant point for Faketoshi believers. It's great that he admitted now that trusting Craig was a mistake. And while he didn't say that he no longer believes Craig is Satoshi, at least he's not making guesses any more.
Sure, I agree it's overdue, but I think it's better late than never.

[Carlton Banks]

Someone who does this is either an idiot or malicious. I tend to think the later.

i went for "idiot or playing games"

to be fair, if Gavin were concealing his original reasons for giving Craig Wright the thumbs-up, ill intent is only one possibility. If we don't know his reason(s), then that's as much as we may ever know

[franky1]

again back when gavin was "doing good" (circa 2010-2014)
early on in the good days he had already announced he would only be inspired and energised in the "bitcoin experiment" for about 3-5 years before he may move on

so timeline shows he planned a retirement date and by 2015 he was at his retirement mindset.. ready to take a payday exit from anywhere he could

i wouldnt say he was a fool. id say he went foul for funds(sellout/ sold his reputation/soul to the devil)

[dkbit98]

to be fair, if Gavin were concealing his original reasons for giving Craig Wright the thumbs-up, ill intent is only one possibility. If we don't know his reason(s), then that's as much as we may ever know

Or Gavin was simply blinded by CSW charisma
I wonder did Gavin also played a lot of games with certain government agency as well, and could that affect his judgement as well?

Anyway, I see more bad new for Craig Wright as he just lost his Bitcoin copyright claim in UK court, but I am sure that won't stop him going to more courts in future:
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/02/08/craig-wright-loses-bitcoin-copyright-claim-in-uk-court/

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

snip

Holdlonaut has already won the case against CWS since last year, and it has also been proven that CWS is not the Satoshi of Bitcoin; he may be Satoshi to his family (wife and kids) 😅, but not to anybody in the community. The community will not consider it because there is no evidence to prove he's the real Bitcoin developer. Anyone who has yet to accept it will one day also realize that it was a mistake to trust CWS, just as Gavin Andresen has confessed.

https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1583086284792205312

[suzanne5223]

There has been a lot of discussion over the years about why Andresen never came out and formally denounced CSW, since it beyond any doubt that he is categorically not Satoshi. This is a step in the right direction, but it's a bit weak for my liking. Obviously it was a mistake to ever trust CSW, but Andresen needs to go further and categorically say "Sorry, I was wrong. CSW is obviously not Satoshi."

There's no doubt that CSW is not the real Satoshi because he loses the Bitcoin copyright in the UK court hours ago but what I don't get is if the message you quoted from actually from the link Gavin Andresen you provided because what was written there seems not to be the same thing to what you posted or I'm I not reading correctly.
This is what I saw "After spending time with him I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt: Craig Wright is Satoshi.
Part of that time was spent on a careful cryptographic verification of messages signed with keys that only Satoshi should possess. But even before I witnessed the keys signed and then verified on a clean computer that could not have been tampered with, I was reasonably certain I was sitting next to the Father of Bitcoin."

[AverageGlabella]

to be fair, if Gavin were concealing his original reasons for giving Craig Wright the thumbs-up, ill intent is only one possibility. If we don't know his reason(s), then that's as much as we may ever know

The worrying part is that he has not come forward and tried to rekindle the relationship he had with the btc community. I will admit I was not aware of some of the things that have been discussed here but now that I am aware I have had to rethink my opinion. I thought Gavin Andresen was a guy to look up to but it turns out just because someone  is involved in a good cause early on does not mean they are good. If he was good and he had good intentions he would have owned up to endorsing CSW it has been years since he has. The op is right that someone who once held acclaim among the btc community has not given a strong enough statement about the intentions and malicious acts done by CSW. Someone with influence even if it is unjust or no longer as strong as it was should stand up and admit to their mistakes instead of doing a half baked version. I always wondered why he disappeared but the only thing I can think of now is he is hiding from the monster that he helped create by endorsing him to the community.

If he steps forward now and apologizes for his mistakes and publicly denounces CSW I think that could go a long way to redemption but I do not have faith in that because they would have done already. There is no way someone watches what CSW is doing and claiming and sits back and lets it happen. If you have influence you have to use that and warn people of the dangers something that Gavin continues not to do.  Talk about falling from grace....

[dezoel]

He could apologize all he wants, he lost credibility with this and he wo would never regain it back, and that's okay. Bitcoin is decentralized, there is no person who has any type of say in bitcoin, Craig is a known scammer at this point and Gavin is just a person who fell for a scammer which many people in crypto did, even if for another scammer, we all faced scammers.

This is why I won't blame Gavin, it happens and it's fine but at the same time I think it's quite important to realize that it's not a big deal if you ignore Gavin as well, just consider him as another random person you do not know talking and it should be fine, I would certainly never consider anything he says with any weight at all.

[PrivacyG]

The only important question we should ask is "what was the benefit of supporting a clear scammer in 2016 and what is the benefit in going back on his words today?
Was it money? Position? Government favor? Threat of prosecution by government? Something else?

I may only speculate on the benefit of going back on his words today.  Can he not get rid of liability in case things go against his way?  People get to trust Craig, Craig proves to be a scammer, then people sue Gavin because he said Craig was Satoshi.  Or something like that.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[SquallLeonhart]

Now Craig has filed case against 12 developers. What is next ?

It is obvious what is next. CSW will continue to make himself look like a idiot but that is why he is famous because he has tried to take over the btc community and tried to expose the most important people in btc with false accusations. Claiming to be satoshi without any proof and some people believe him. This will continue until he gets his goal in destroying btc or he gets put in jail for the slander cases he has made.

Gavin needs to come out with a better public statement denouncing CSW because even if some members here do not like him any more he still has a influence on members in the community and he can use that to do some good by coming out with a stronger statement against CSW

I think it is not going to be enough to actually save his credibility and I think it is not going to change anything at all. While I believe that it is not going to change anything, he could do it himself to save himself. This way if anyone asks, he could say that he rejected CSW eventually, which people will say it was too late, but at least he could have a defense ready for it, and he could say he was fooled and he found the truth and rejected it when he learned.

This won't change peoples views of him, but it could at least give him some sort of defense mechanism to protect himself from hatred, a way to change the perspective a bit if he could do it.