New HW wallet announced: COLDCARD Q1

[dkbit98]

it's usb-c, it's quite the standard these days.

I guess iPhone users are screwed than and they can't use new coldcard wallet, but I guess that is nothing...''only'' around billion people use iPhone devices right now... especially in North America.

We need to progress past triple A's I think, and establish a slightly better, at least bigger capacity battery. I've used 18650s for a lot of things, and they function decently well for most things. Aren't as common as your double A's, and triple A's though. However, they aren't some specialised hardware, and can be picked up relatively cheaply, and easily from a variety of places.

I agree, especially when we have examples what happened with Foundation Passport and Keystone essential.
When you are not shipping device with batteries it's just another way to cut on production cost, that is something coldcard is trying to do with upcoming device.
It's much better strategy that Passport used in their new device, using the same rechargeable battery that was used in old Nokia phones.

[1714651296]

1714651296

[sad-error]

I guess iPhone users are screwed than and they can't use new coldcard wallet, but I guess that is nothing...''only'' around billion people use iPhone devices right now... especially in North America.

At least in the EU apple is forced to switch to usb-c. Weather their shitty lightning through usb-c implementation will actually support data transfer on these devices - probably not because earning money through licencing lightning is too good of a deal for them - is a thing you should take up with apple.

[dkbit98]

At least in the EU apple is forced to switch to usb-c. Weather their shitty lightning through usb-c implementation will actually support data transfer on these devices - probably not because earning money through licencing lightning is too good of a deal for them - is a thing you should take up with apple.

Dream on and read the latest news about that iPhone topic.
They are planning to introduce payment charges fee and verification for this special cables, so you won't be able to use your universal usb-c type cable  
Note that I am not a fan of iPhone at all, just trying to provide evidence that billions of people wont be able to use new coldcard device without paying extra money for new cable and new batteries.
Btw coldcard is based in Canada, that is North America, not EU.

[sad-error]

At least in the EU apple is forced to switch to usb-c. Weather their shitty lightning through usb-c implementation will actually support data transfer on these devices - probably not because earning money through licencing lightning is too good of a deal for them - is a thing you should take up with apple.

Dream on and read the latest news about that iPhone topic.
They are planning to introduce payment charges fee and verification for this special cables, so you won't be able to use your universal usb-c type cable  

I'm pretty sure this won't fly at all in the EU. 🤷‍♂️

Note that I am not a fan of iPhone at all, just trying to provide evidence that billions of people wont be able to use new coldcard device without paying extra money for new cable and new batteries.

ok to play the devil's advocate - you get the usb-c cable with the coldcard. What good does it do with your lightning port iphone exactly?

[dkbit98]

I'm pretty sure this won't fly at all in the EU. 🤷‍♂️

Yes they will fly and create so much waste and evil pollution with plane fuel burning... but I guess only usbc cables are creating waste in the world. 

ok to play the devil's advocate - you get the usb-c cable with the coldcard. What good does it do with your lightning port iphone exactly?

Nothing, who said it has anything to do with iPhones?
Comparing smartphones that are sold in billions for decades I can somehow agree with their shitty tactics of removing chargers and cables in recent years.
But Coldcard is selling few hundred devices max, and they are already removing essential stuff for functioning of their devices.
I don't know any other hardware wallet brand that is doing this right now, so I have to criticize this stupid move.

[stompix]

We need to progress past triple A's I think, and establish a slightly better, at least bigger capacity battery. I've used 18650s for a lot of things, and they function decently well for most things. Aren't as common as your double A's, and triple A's though. However, they aren't some specialised hardware, and can be picked up relatively cheaply, and easily from a variety of places.

18650 are different in voltage that your classical AA batteries, plus packing more energy into the battery while increasing the cost makes little sense when you can simply buy rechargeable ones and use 4 or 6 of them to have one set always ready. Maybe it's just me, but talking about the extra cost of a few batteries and a cheap cable probably every single one of us is having laying around while discussing a device in which you plan to store thousands of $ equivalent seems a bit of a push.
As for why small producers do the cable thing, it's easy to understand, you include a good cable you have to rise the price a bit, you put in a junk one you have angry customers the cable is obviously junk, so why not get rid of all possible cable related complaints induced a bad batch and have the user decide for himself what to use.

I was quite intrigued by it due to the display and QR but what's with those dimensions, for real 4 inches wide? Hope it's not a trend and we're not going from wallets you can tuck in your pocket or hide beside flash drives to things the size of a tablet.

[Pmalek]

Hope it's not a trend and we're not going from wallets you can tuck in your pocket or hide beside flash drives to things the size of a tablet.

Imagine using a Gameboy lookalike as your new hardware wallet? And I am not talking about the second generation pocket-sized ones, but the old brick-style consoles. I agree with dkbit98 that removing the cable is a ridiculous move and would force me to look elsewhere if I was looking to buy a hardware wallet. Not because I can't afford to buy a cable somewhere else or don't have spare ones somewhere, but because I expect to get a fully functioning device with everything that goes with it. What's next? You don't get a keyboard, but you can pay extra if you want them to install it for you?

I remember my first purchase in Best Buy in the States some 15 years ago (approx.) Didn't have much money back then, so it was a big thing for me. On top of the price displayed in the store, I also had to pay extra for taxes. Didn't know that's normal in the US back then. On top of that, they added an additional charge of $99. When I asked what that's for, they said their Geek Squad team was kind enough to install the OS on it + drivers for the graphics card, etc. I had a Carol-like fit when I heard that. I said, isn't that standard when you buy a laptop? Were you just going to give it to me with no OS installed, so I can't use if after paying for it? I didn't want to pay for it and asked the salesman to take it back and have their Geek Squad uninstall everything they put on it. After he spoke with his boss, I was told I didn't have to pay the extra $99. Jerk    

[DaveF]

Imagine using a Gameboy lookalike as your new hardware wallet? And I am not talking about the second generation pocket-sized ones, but the old brick-style consoles. I agree with dkbit98 that removing the cable is a ridiculous move and would force me to look elsewhere if I was looking to buy a hardware wallet. Not because I can't afford to buy a cable somewhere else or don't have spare ones somewhere, but because I expect to get a fully functioning device with everything that goes with it. What's next? You don't get a keyboard, but you can pay extra if you want them to install it for you?

I remember my first purchase in Best Buy in the States some 15 years ago (approx.) Didn't have much money back then, so it was a big thing for me. On top of the price displayed in the store, I also had to pay extra for taxes. Didn't know that's normal in the US back then. On top of that, they added an additional charge of $99. When I asked what that's for, they said their Geek Squad team was kind enough to install the OS on it + drivers for the graphics card, etc. I had a Carol-like fit when I heard that. I said, isn't that standard when you buy a laptop? Were you just going to give it to me with no OS installed, so I can't use if after paying for it? I didn't want to pay for it and asked the salesman to take it back and have their Geek Squad uninstall everything they put on it. After he spoke with his boss, I was told I didn't have to pay the extra $99. Jerk    

Sales tax is just the way it is over here. And Best Buy being scummy is just the way best buy is.

As for the cable, I would like them to give you 2 cables. One with the data wires and one without. This way if your batteries are dead you always have a cable around that can power it by plugging it into anything without worry. Minor point but it would be nice.

But, lets face it. All their previous ones did not come with cables either so it's not like anything changed with that. All you got was the unit in a bag.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

I was quite intrigued by it due to the display and QR but what's with those dimensions, for real 4 inches wide? Hope it's not a trend and we're not going from wallets you can tuck in your pocket or hide beside flash drives to things the size of a tablet.

I don't know if you saw image I posted with Coldcard Q1 next to the model mk4 and laptop... but this is huge device, and I think we need to have a small backpack to carry this device outside.
Coldcard didn't release exact dimensions anywhere so we don't know the final looks, but that backside with batteries looks very thick like a brick.
Did anyone found exact dimension for Coldcard Q1 or maybe NVK can tell us this little ''secret''.

But, lets face it. All their previous ones did not come with cables either so it's not like anything changed with that. All you got was the unit in a bag.

I can clearly see on Coinkite website that Uncle Jim's Bundle and KISB Guide Bundle are available now, and they all include USB-C cables.
They are also selling power only USB-C cables separately for $16.99  

[Pmalek]

Did anyone found exact dimension for Coldcard Q1 or maybe NVK can tell us this little ''secret''.

They might be debating about the final size and weight themselves and they don't know yet how the final product will look like. If you look at the official specs, https://coldcard.com/docs/specs, the size and weight is yet to be determined. We only know the display size.

320x240 pixel LCD screen, 3.2"

https://coldcard.com/docs/coldcard-q1

[Welsh]

18650 are different in voltage that your classical AA batteries, plus packing more energy into the battery while increasing the cost makes little sense when you can simply buy rechargeable ones and use 4 or 6 of them to have one set always ready. Maybe it's just me, but talking about the extra cost of a few batteries and a cheap cable probably every single one of us is having laying around while discussing a device in which you plan to store thousands of $ equivalent seems a bit of a push.

While Lithium batteries tend to hold good charge unless they're exposed to cold environments or obviously used they hold their charge decently well. 18650s aren't all that expensive these days. When you compare them to double AA's sure, they're comparatively cheaper, but if you're using your hardware wallet semi frequently, running into charge issues would be annoying. For a little extra cost, you could have two 18650's instead of three normal double A's, and you'll have a much better charge.

While 18650s are usually associated with flashlights, and battery packs I don't think they should be limited to that. The cost of them is going down, as we are developing stronger equipment that requires more mah. Therefore, double A's I can see becoming a thing of the past, and while they're brilliant for remote controls, and the like. 18650s future proof the design, and when you're storing Bitcoin for a rather long period of time having that future proof insurance is nicer to have.

Personally, I think hardware wallets should accept several different batteries. I have a DIY battery pack, that I take traveling which accepts double A's, 18650s, and 21's. If they did that, it effectively future proofs it, and allows quick access to whatever the user can get their hands on, if they require to do that in a short period of time.

[DaveF]

Drifting with the battery thing for a while. Makes you wonder how low you can go. Would it be possible to design a GOOD hardware wallet with decent screen and everything else.
BUT also have a 'low power' mode. Much like now have a green led for good, a red led for bad and instead of the higher power display use something like an e-ink.

The issue is the security and cpu chips. How low power can you get them. Is it possible to use some funky power setup to even run them off a single AA battery even if you have to throttle them all the way down.
Do you care if it takes 15 seconds to do something if you have to do it and the only power you could get is an old mostly dead battery?

Just pondering out loud here. Did not really think it thought that much.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

They might be debating about the final size and weight themselves and they don't know yet how the final product will look like. If you look at the official specs, https://coldcard.com/docs/specs, the size and weight is yet to be determined.

Are you kidding me right now?
They showed many screenshots, so it's clear they are only working on internal and software related stuff.
Maybe they are little concerned what would people say when they see real dimensions, some would not purchase huge device that is more like small netbook.
Judging by meme posted by NVK this Coldcard Q1 is gigantic:


https://bird.trom.tf/COLDCARDwallet/status/1627472372096970753#m

It's safe to say one thing, this is going to be the BIGGEST hardware wallet in the world  

Do you care if it takes 15 seconds to do something if you have to do it and the only power you could get is an old mostly dead battery?

I want to have options with power, that means USB cable connection should always be there and batteries should be something like Keystone made, so you have regular and custom batteries available.

[miner9problems]

Do we know if $199 is the total price, or just the cost to reserve one?

I got an email after ordering that when it's ready to ship I can add the Q1 to my cart and then add my reservation as a "discount."  And it appears no shipping or sales tax is charged yet.

[sad-error]

Do we know if $199 is the total price, or just the cost to reserve one?

I got an email after ordering that when it's ready to ship I can add the Q1 to my cart and then add my reservation as a "discount."  And it appears no shipping or sales tax is charged yet.

I remember them mentioning that $199 is the full price in their podcast for now, but it will probably go up once it's out.

They might be debating about the final size and weight themselves and they don't know yet how the final product will look like. If you look at the official specs, https://coldcard.com/docs/specs, the size and weight is yet to be determined. We only know the display size.

Given that they said they have already ordered the molds I'm assuming the size has already been decided.

[n0nce]

One interesting thing we noticed is that it's about 4x6 inches, almost an inch thick (you can do the estimation yourself knowing the screen is 3.2 inches diagonal). I think many users will be surprised by the sheer size of the device. It's certainly not pocketable.

Probably still pocketable from the size, only the thickness may get annoying. I'm mostly worried about the Alkaline batteries. From my research into the topic, they will either need a pretty sophisticated power circuit and (super?)capacitors to absorb power spikes and such, to prevent killing the battery charge in a few minutes of power-on time. Or drastically reduce power usage e.g. by killing backlight, having (AS)ICs to accelerate certain things at minimal power usage.

Additionally, I think I found the QR scanner part they are using. This means the QR scanner is essentially a standalone black box computer running proprietary code. It also means that there will be no viewfinder on the Q1 screen: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Embedded-1D-2D-Image-Barcode-Scanner_62478427468.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.2e971000ZaPAEz&s=p

using an specialized QR scanner module at the top of the unit. It connects to the Coldcard internally using a simple 2-wire serial port, so there is less danger of scanned data doing more than it seems.

Yes, this reads really oddly. How is the number of wires a security feature? If anything, I'd want my QR code scanner to be in - open-source - software and not on some off-the-shelf 'external module'...

I am quite flattered by Coldcard's new direction; it certainly seems like a direct response to our 2021 Passport Founder's Edition.

They are even repeating the exact same mistake you did with triple A batteries, and that back design for Q1 is really ugly in my opinnion.
I am almost certain we are going to see ColdCard Q2 after this, that will have similar batteries like you are using in current Passport device

I would be honestly surprised if they actually run into the same issue, where only special and expensive Lithium (not Lithium-Ion) non-rechargeable AA's are required.
I'm pretty satisfied with the Nokia BL-5C battery. It holds a long time and you can get replacements very easily.

Additionally, I think I found the QR scanner part they are using. This means the QR scanner is essentially a standalone black box computer running proprietary code. It also means that there will be no viewfinder on the Q1 screen: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Embedded-1D-2D-Image-Barcode-Scanner_62478427468.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.2e971000ZaPAEz&s=p

Does anyone make their own camera modules? There was actually a discussion here a while ago about that and vulnerabilities with them.

You want a camera module without IC on it and process the raw picture data in the open-source software. Instead, it seems like Q1 uses a 'self-contained' QR module with IC and software that does all the decoding and only returns the decoded data to the main SoC.

It's $59 cheaper than passport HW wallet. But since Coinkite store mention "Batteries & USB cable not included", passport has better offer for those who consider cost of 3x AAA battery.

In case that Lithium batteries are needed, those are over 10 bucks a pack ^[1], every time. That adds up over time, indeed.

It is actually not cheaper than Passport, when it was in pre-order phase, too. It came with one Industrial microSD card and two microSD adapters (Lightning and USB-C).

Pricing & Discounts
During the preorder phase, Batch 2 was priced at $199 (without VAT or shipping).

We need to progress past triple A's I think, and establish a slightly better, at least bigger capacity battery. I've used 18650s for a lot of things, and they function decently well for most things. Aren't as common as your double A's, and triple A's though. However, they aren't some specialised hardware, and can be picked up relatively cheaply, and easily from a variety of places.

18650 is definitely a good idea; Li-Ion and common to find anywhere. Only downside is the cylindrical and large shape. But I guess it may be possible to accommodate for it in a device with Q1's (or Passport's) thickness, especially since you only need one. However, it may be overkill in capacity compared to a Nokia BL-5C, which is also slimmer and lighter.

As for the cable, I would like them to give you 2 cables. One with the data wires and one without. This way if your batteries are dead you always have a cable around that can power it by plugging it into anything without worry. Minor point but it would be nice.

Even better: remove data contacts from the PCB..

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Lithium-Battery-Longest-lasting-Leak-proof/dp/B071CNQ3TG

[Lillominato89]

Do we know if $199 is the total price, or just the cost to reserve one?

I got an email after ordering that when it's ready to ship I can add the Q1 to my cart and then add my reservation as a "discount."  And it appears no shipping or sales tax is charged yet.

I really believe that 199 dollars is just the price of coldcard q1, in fact on the site I found this sentence for shipments that quotes exactly like this "Free shipping on orders of $499 or more!" so I assume that when it will be possible to place the order, in addition to the price of q1 199dollars, the cost of shipping will also have to be added

[TalkativeCoin]

We need to progress past triple A's I think, and establish a slightly better, at least bigger capacity battery. I've used 18650s for a lot of things, and they function decently well for most things. Aren't as common as your double A's, and triple A's though. However, they aren't some specialised hardware, and can be picked up relatively cheaply, and easily from a variety of places.

18650 is definitely a good idea; Li-Ion and common to find anywhere. Only downside is the cylindrical and large shape. But I guess it may be possible to accommodate for it in a device with Q1's (or Passport's) thickness, especially since you only need one. However, it may be overkill in capacity compared to a Nokia BL-5C, which is also slimmer and lighter.

Yes, 18650 is a thick boy, Li-Po pouch would make more sense, but one that's standardized within the industry with like a three-pin connector.

[n0nce]

We need to progress past triple A's I think, and establish a slightly better, at least bigger capacity battery. I've used 18650s for a lot of things, and they function decently well for most things. Aren't as common as your double A's, and triple A's though. However, they aren't some specialised hardware, and can be picked up relatively cheaply, and easily from a variety of places.

18650 is definitely a good idea; Li-Ion and common to find anywhere. Only downside is the cylindrical and large shape. But I guess it may be possible to accommodate for it in a device with Q1's (or Passport's) thickness, especially since you only need one. However, it may be overkill in capacity compared to a Nokia BL-5C, which is also slimmer and lighter.

Yes, 18650 is a thick boy, Li-Po pouch would make more sense, but one that's standardized within the industry with like a three-pin connector.

Exactly, that's why I mentioned the Nokia BL-5C. It has been used for at least 20 years in all sorts of (Nokia) devices, such as the Nokia 3650 from 2002/2003. ^[1] This is what the Foundation Passport batch 2 hardware wallet uses.

[1] https://lpcwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/Nokia_3650

[Welsh]

The ol' Nokia batteries could be worth a shout. I know the 18650s are rather thick, but I'm not the most practical when it comes to size. I'm not bothered about a bulky hardware wallet, since I won't exactly be carrying it around with me. Although, I suspect some users would, and I guess manufactures have to take that into consideration. I believe Nokia's are still being manufactured too, right? I'm not sure if they've made more sophisticated batteries these days, but it's probably the most common battery after double A's, and triple A's.

I didn't catch on that the Foundation passport used Nokia batteries, that's pretty neat. I'm glad to see hardware wallets looking to alternatives to the traditional batteries used.

but one that's standardized within the industry with like a three-pin connector.

Yeah, that's one of the requirements. It has to be readily changeable, and potentially salvageable from nearby devices. Like I said lithium batteries tend to have quite a long longevity, especially when they're unused. It's when you lower it, and charge it back up it goes through it's cycles.