(Closed)

[hilariousandco]

It was essentially a begging thread which obviously isn't allowed and I think the no begging rule is one of the oldest here.

So now we are going to call any topic that has donation address a begging?!

Not all donations are begging. If someone wants to send you or me money as a donation then they can go to our profiles and do so. You can donate to anyone you want. What you can't do is create a thread to try solicit donations. If a thread contains a sob story and address urging others to donate then I'd say yes, that clarifies as a begging thread.

I didn't see Yahoo beg at all in this thread, I even think he added donation addresses later when people started asking about that, he just said that everyone can find address in his profile (archive can confirm this).
This was certainly not the only thread that collected donations, I can clearly remember one topic from Bruno AKA Phinnaeus Gage and his medical condition, we all know outcome of that.
I can also find several donations campaigns for disasters and health issues, you can't call all donations begging, even Bitcointalk forum had donation address for years.

You can't really say I'm not asking for donations then literally ask for donations both in the thread and directing people to your profile. Whilst some people will or would have genuine reasons for asking for money and it may seem harsh not allowing them in certain instances I think a blanket ban on them is wise unless we're going to scrap the rule completely or open up some sort of donation board which I think would just be a messy nightmare.

It was essentially a begging thread which obviously isn't allowed and I think the no begging rule is one of the oldest here. I'm suspired nobody reported it earlier to be honest. If it was made by any other account it would have been reported half a dozen times and trashed within an hour of being posted.

do mods have to wait for a report before doing anything?

There were two other staff members who replied in that thread, why didn't they stop it

No, they don't have to wait but it's the first time I saw it and most won't see it unless it's reported. Only Globals and dedicated sub mods could handle posts/threads in there as well. Maybe the other mods didn't think it violated the rules or maybe some mods think certain people should get a pass but I can't speak for everyone.

I'm not going to speak for all mods, just myself. And my voice has no more value than others.

Giving documents or invoices about a heavy operation doesn't prove anything. Everything can be easily faked.
As a mod or just a member, I don't want to have personal and sensitive information about other members.
And above all, I (we ?) am not a doctor and how can I judge if this or that disease is eligible for donations ?
Heart transplantation. OK ?
Cancer. OK ?
Amputation. OK ?
Sex change. OK ?
Breast implant ?
My dog needs surgery. Is it OK ?

Where is the limit? What if you are rich in a poor country or poor in a rich country ? What do we do? Do we have to ask for a tax declaration as well ?

Exactly. People could easily fake this stuff or just take advantage of being in hospital for a minor surgery as well. You could go in for a routine op, take some pictures of you hooked up to an IV or oxygen and make out like you're dying of cancer or something and have weeks to live. It's actually not that uncommon and people are always getting called out for faking diseases and illnesses. There was a YouTuber recently who faked cancer and received a lot of money in donations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGcOZ4XPHKE

If you want to talk about your health problems... why not. If people are touched by your story, they will contact you by PM to ask you for an address to make a donation. That's all you can hope. Because if we open this Pandora's box, there will be abuse.

You could certainly have a thread to talk about your personal afflictions if you wanted to but you can't do that and then stick a donation address in it. I would still find it a bit sketchy either way and most people doing so would probably be doing it knowing it'll garner them at least some sympathy likely along with some donations as well. I might have a bit of sympathy if someone was genuinely struggling with their medical bills or whatnot but not to just fund someone's alleged take-out orders whilst they were apparently in hospital.

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[dkbit98]

Not all donations are begging. If someone wants to send you or me money as a donation then they can go to our profiles and do so. You can donate to anyone you want. What you can't do is create a thread to try solicit donations. If a thread contains a sob story and address urging others to donate then I'd say yes, that clarifies as a begging thread.

I never before saw moderators contacted someone to remove Bitcoin address from their topic, and this should not be done selectively like you are doing.
One more thread that comes to my mind was controversial Bitcointalk Charity topic, with three forum members being involved in abusing collected donations.
That topic was allowed to exists for months, and it's interesting that yahoo was one of the people who first talked about that issue, so I don't see him as a bitcoin beggar:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376475.0

You can't really say I'm not asking for donations then literally ask for donations both in the thread and directing people to your profile. Whilst some people will or would have genuine reasons for asking for money and it may seem harsh not allowing them in certain instances I think a blanket ban on them is wise unless we're going to scrap the rule completely or open up some sort of donation board which I think would just be a messy nightmare.

I will repeat again, there was no bitcoin addresses when thread was created, he added it later after other members asked for that.
I don't know what I would do in similar situation, but fact is that most members supported yahoo and gave him bunch of merits.
Last time I checked he didn't receive  that much Bitcoin at all, fake Bruno scammer and Bitcointalk Charity trio received much much more.

PS
Your last quote was wrong, I didn't say that, it was post from Halab:

If you want to talk about your health problems... why not. If people are touched by your story, they will contact you by PM to ask you for an address to make a donation. That's all you can hope. Because if we open this Pandora's box, there will be abuse.

[donationsxp]

Everything is possible. It may be all a show.



He need to proof:


- Video with his food deliveries app show 60 usd spend every day
- medical bills  from hospital.


The forum always deserves the truth to know if all of this thread is real or not.
Just for the sake of the forum to teach everyone a lesson if people can seem good on the surface and turn out to be evil after.


If he is  a real person I would keep his  thread.
And I will donate half grand for him and half for bitcointalk.

[hilariousandco]

Not all donations are begging. If someone wants to send you or me money as a donation then they can go to our profiles and do so. You can donate to anyone you want. What you can't do is create a thread to try solicit donations. If a thread contains a sob story and address urging others to donate then I'd say yes, that clarifies as a begging thread.

I never before saw moderators contacted someone to remove Bitcoin address from their topic, and this should not be done selectively like you are doing.

Why would you see it? It was done in private, but they usually don't get contacted at all. They either go straight in the trash without notification or the person gets a ban but I thought I'd do the nice thing and nicely ask him to remove it rather than trash the entire thing. It's really not done selectively. I think everyone should be treated the same and people shouldn't be begging for money here. I would urge people to report any begging threads and we'll probably stop a lot of scams from happening in the first place.

One more thread that comes to my mind was controversial Bitcointalk Charity topic, with three forum members being involved in abusing collected donations.
That topic was allowed to exists for months, and it's interesting that yahoo was one of the people who first talked about that issue, so I don't see him as a bitcoin beggar:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5376475.0

I don't think that thread should have been there but two wrongs don't make a right. That situation was a perfect example of the issues that arise from these things. People trusted so called trusted users/familiar faces and they straight up abused their position likely pilfering funds for themselves. If that thread would have been reported then it likely would have been removed straight away. I'm sure the people meriting it and donating to it were thinking they were contributing to a noble cause but that probably didn't happen, or not on the scale expected. It's sad and disgusting that people abuse charity but don't ever forget how low people will stoop to line their own pockets. Abusing charity is an extra level of low in my opinion because you're taking advantage of people's good nature to enrich yourself and genuine people who need the money and probably didn't even ask for it in the first place are losing out.

I will repeat again, there was no bitcoin addresses when thread was created, he added it later after other members asked for that.
I don't know what I would do in similar situation, but fact is that most members supported yahoo and gave him bunch of merits.
Last time I checked he didn't receive  that much Bitcoin at all, fake Bruno scammer and Bitcointalk Charity trio received much much more.

It doesn't really matter when it was put there but I can't confirm that to be true or not. Are you saying he only added the "I'm not asking for donations or anything, but I do have a bitcoin address in my profile if anyone wants to help out they can." at a later date? I think yahoo probably knew what he was doing by creating that thread but it would be a terrible loophole if we allow threads to be edited after they're created because someone suggested people could donate and that makes it ok. You could just have a friend or even an alt account make the suggestion.

PS
Your last quote was wrong, I didn't say that, it was post from Halab:

If you want to talk about your health problems... why not. If people are touched by your story, they will contact you by PM to ask you for an address to make a donation. That's all you can hope. Because if we open this Pandora's box, there will be abuse.

Fixed.

[donationsxp]

Appreciate that the mods are being rationals. All other users seems so irrational and part of a cult.
I also  want to believe he saying the true but give proper evidence.
Make proper research.

[dkbit98]

Why would you see it? It was done in private, but they usually don't get contacted at all.
They either go straight in the trash without notification or the person gets a ban but I thought I'd do the nice thing and nicely ask him to remove it rather than trash the entire thing. It's really not done selectively. I think everyone should be treated the same and people shouldn't be begging for money here. I would urge people to report any begging threads and we'll probably stop a lot of scams from happening in the first place.

How would you call collecting donation to develop new forum software that was never delivered like promised?  
My point was that I saw so many obvious examples of people asking for donations in this forum and this was never considered a begging.
Now I understand if you want to make an example from yahoo, but I would like to hear opinion from theymos about it.

I don't think that thread should have been there but two wrongs don't make a right.

Dude, are you serious?!
This thread is still very much there as well as their ''donation'' address  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124375.0

You could just have a friend or even an alt account make the suggestion.

So you are now saying that he used some of his alt accounts for this, and for what....to get around $100 worth of BTC in donations  
I am really surprised and sad to hear all this from Global Moderator  

[donationsxp]

Why would you see it? It was done in private, but they usually don't get contacted at all.
They either go straight in the trash without notification or the person gets a ban but I thought I'd do the nice thing and nicely ask him to remove it rather than trash the entire thing. It's really not done selectively. I think everyone should be treated the same and people shouldn't be begging for money here. I would urge people to report any begging threads and we'll probably stop a lot of scams from happening in the first place.

How would you call collecting donation to develop new forum software that was never delivered like promised?  
My point was that I saw so many obvious examples of people asking for donations in this forum and this was never considered a begging.
Now I understand if you want to make an example from yahoo, but I would like to hear opinion from theymos about it.

I don't think that thread should have been there but two wrongs don't make a right.

Dude, are you serious?!
This thread is still very much there as well as their ''donation'' address  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124375.0

You could just have a friend or even an alt account make the suggestion.

So you are now saying that he used some of his alt accounts for this, and for what....to get around $100 worth of BTC in donations  
I am really surprised and sad to hear all this from Global Moderator  

millions if rich people like stake.com or bitsler will see it.
It has perfect story to induce empathy. not cringy donation like the link you post.
it has story behind it.

Full disclosore: I am fishy I dont feel like ruining the person the thread. (If all real)
I want him to get  as much money as much as possible.
This why I am willign to donate him half grand for him and half grand and Bitcointalk if is all real and verified by mods.
and they r willing to upload it again.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Suppose I need Lasik surgery and see from a long distance. Assuming my eyes are very bad, and I need people to pay for my surgery, 3k.
What do I need to show if I open the donation thread here? Do I need to provide eye problems documents from birth?

Nothing can assure anything. All you need is trust/reputation from the forum users.

Reputation is key for receiving any donations, regardless of whether asking for them is allowed or not.  If you're a nobody on this forum and start asking for donations for any of those surgeries you listed, you can forget about it.  The only reason yahoo62278 received all the bitcoin he did is because of the trust and rep he's built up over the years.  He's managed a lot of campaigns and a lot of money, so obviously people didn't think he was up to anything when he said he was in the hospital waiting for a heart transplant.

For as long as I can remember, asking for donations wasn't allowed, no matter who you were.  It was considered begging, and I was surprised to see a btc address in yahoo62278's thread.  Eh, medically he's out of the woods for now and it's not a huge deal that he asked for a little bit of charity from the community IMO.

[donationsxp]

Suppose I need Lasik surgery and see from a long distance. Assuming my eyes are very bad, and I need people to pay for my surgery, 3k.
What do I need to show if I open the donation thread here? Do I need to provide eye problems documents from birth?

Nothing can assure anything. All you need is trust/reputation from the forum users.

Reputation is key for receiving any donations, regardless of whether asking for them is allowed or not.  If you're a nobody on this forum and start asking for donations for any of those surgeries you listed, you can forget about it.  The only reason yahoo62278 received all the bitcoin he did is because of the trust and rep he's built up over the years.  He's managed a lot of campaigns and a lot of money, so obviously people didn't think he was up to anything when he said he was in the hospital waiting for a heart transplant.

For as long as I can remember, asking for donations wasn't allowed, no matter who you were.  It was considered begging, and I was surprised to see a btc address in yahoo62278's thread.  Eh, medically he's out of the woods for now and it's not a huge deal that he asked for a little bit of charity from the community IMO.

You all part of a cult you have telegram groups together What I find is that the mods are the only rational people here.
Some people here have alts.
Is not suffucient a trust scroe. forum like HF and OGU I saw in my own eyes people with hundrends of trust eventually exit scam.
Only docuemnts are sufficuent to proof it/videos.


They should give Yahoo a chance to provide them given his reputation here. This I agree.
Provide reliable docs then we talk. I will also make a  big donation.

[digaran]

OP you are not going to stop until you make yahoo doxing himself right? No one would donate without reasonable evidence, if they did that's because they trust him. You should contact him and ask for medical records if you are interested in helping him and trust him enough.

[shahzadafzal]

It was essentially a begging thread which obviously isn't allowed and I think the no begging rule is one of the oldest here. I'm suspired nobody reported it earlier to be honest.

I remember I read it when he posted his story here and I remember I didn’t feel that it was a begging thread by any means. He told his story wholeheartedly and I’m sure everybody read it with open heart. It was in nobody’s mind that it will turn into a begging thread and from such respected and senior member. That’s why it was not reported by anyone.

Then after that I didn’t visit back and never saw he posted a donation address in OP.

Anyway as soon the donation address was posted it turned into a begging thread no question on this.

I appreciate hilariousandco for his fair judgement instead of nuking the whole thread off, it’s better restoring it to original story telling post. I think yahoo62278 should accept posting address was a mistake.

Full disclosore: I am fishy I dont feel like ruining the person the thread. (If all real)
I want him to get  as much money as much as possible.
This why I am willign to donate him half grand for him and half grand and Bitcointalk if is all real and verified by mods.
and they r willing to upload it again.

Now asking for proofs or evidences is a stupid thing, you ask for proofs when you have doubts and when you have doubts please don’t donate or help anyone as simple as that.

If you believe in yahoo and think he needs donation or help no one is stopping you from helping him you can contact him pm or get his address there are thousand ways.

Begging is not allowed we all agree, full stop.

Now please stop humiliating anyone and specially yourself by asking for proofs. Because when you are in doubt those proofs won’t mean anything, real or fake is out question.

[T3PR00T]

@hilariousandco, let's assume you are in Yahoo's shoe. Make it worse. You do not have a medical insurance. Everyone in your family and friends are supporting you for your surgery. Not enough, you still need money to save your life.

Like your friends and family, on the forum there are many you interacted for years. They are as close as your friends in real life, the only difference is you never knew their real them. You know there are many who are capable to support you. Are you saying you don't deserve a chance here?

Well if you don't, the place is shit. There are no need for such community where they don't stand for each others. I will also like to hear theymos.

You know I think you have some beef against yahoo and you are such pathetic inhuman that you used your sure shot.

How did you justify when bitcointalk charity was there, when Bruno plead, when covid charity was there or you were closing your eyes and did not see it.

I am sorry I could not respect your view, opinion. You unfolded yourself as a pathetic creature.

[yahoo62278]

What it all comes down to is someone or multiple someones on the forum felt I was in violation of the rules of the forum. Only the forum is allowed to ask for donations, everyone else can put an address in their profile that's it in a nut shell.

I will say thank you to hilariousandco for pmming me vs just locking and deleting the topic. Definitely think the topic itself should stay up as a reminder to people to keep up on their health. I do not really appreciate some of your comments in this thread though. Your assumptions do not paint you in the best light. You are a moderator here and I have respect for you, but I have lost some reading your comments as well. You might be protecting the community in your eyes, but you could have chosen your words much better.

The initial thread was put there for people to have awareness. It was not a donation attempt, but it did turn into people donating roughly .05btc. I was not trying to get rich from any of you.

When the thread was made, the doctors were 100% going for a transplant. Then, whatever happened in my heart to change their diagnosis happened and I end up being released and am being monitored. There was nothing false about the thread. I cannot explain it, but i'm not mad about not being opened up again currently. The last open heart was fucking brutal and the recovery was less than desirable.



If we are concentrating on rules and enforcing them, why don't we go ahead and ban naim027 who is a ban evader and has been reported as such. Can we also ban  the self admitted ban evader the creator of this thread while we are at it? I don't mind rules being enforced but do them for all cases.




@ALL, they are right in their decision to ask me to take down the addresses. Let's not all get butthurt by them trying to protect the forum. The responses in this thread are less than desirable but That's not on any of you, just the people who made them. It shows that certain people have a low opinion of me and that is their right. Everyone does not have to like me. Locking the thread is a bit much IMO as it is all factual info.

There is also no need for theymos to comment. He hired the staff and stands by their opinion. That's how it should be. Rules are rules, LET IT BE.

[examplens]

I never before saw moderators contacted someone to remove Bitcoin address from their topic, and this should not be done selectively like you are doing.

Why would you see it? It was done in private, but they usually don't get contacted at all. They either go straight in the trash without notification or the person gets a ban but I thought I'd do the nice thing and nicely ask him to remove it rather than trash the entire thing. It's really not done selectively. I think everyone should be treated the same and people shouldn't be begging for money here. I would urge people to report any begging threads and we'll probably stop a lot of scams from happening in the first place.

as far as I remember, initially, yahoo only noted that his address for potential donation was on his profile page. although maybe he posted it later in the discussion, I didn't recognize his thread as begging.
@hilariousandco Do I understand you correctly, that actually the critical point in donation threads, whether it is begging or not, is actually the existence of a donation address?

maybe it is necessary to completely ban any charity and donor actions or at least define it more precisely, and I agree with dkbit98, this yahoo case seems pretty selective.

For example, I saw the charity campaign [AUCTION LIST] Auction for ColdKey victims launched due to a scandalous theft to raise donations for victims of yogg's cold key scam.
They even run a signature campaign [OPEN] Charity Signature and Avatar Campaign - Auction for ColdKey victims to promote such action in helping to cover losses caused by fraud with donations.

what is the difference except that there have not yet published the address for receiving funds? can this be considered begging?

don't get me wrong, I understand their ^{all ColdKey victim's} pain due to the loss and I fully support that action, but compared to yahoo's health problems, it's a cat's cough.

[donationsxp]

It was essentially a begging thread which obviously isn't allowed and I think the no begging rule is one of the oldest here. I'm suspired nobody reported it earlier to be honest.

I remember I read it when he posted his story here and I remember I didn’t feel that it was a begging thread by any means. He told his story wholeheartedly and I’m sure everybody read it with open heart. It was in nobody’s mind that it will turn into a begging thread and from such respected and senior member. That’s why it was not reported by anyone.

Then after that I didn’t visit back and never saw he posted a donation address in OP.

Anyway as soon the donation address was posted it turned into a begging thread no question on this.

I appreciate hilariousandco for his fair judgement instead of nuking the whole thread off, it’s better restoring it to original story telling post. I think yahoo62278 should accept posting address was a mistake.

Full disclosore: I am fishy I dont feel like ruining the person the thread. (If all real)
I want him to get  as much money as much as possible.
This why I am willign to donate him half grand for him and half grand and Bitcointalk if is all real and verified by mods.
and they r willing to upload it again.

Now asking for proofs or evidences is a stupid thing, you ask for proofs when you have doubts and when you have doubts please don’t donate or help anyone as simple as that.

If you believe in yahoo and think he needs donation or help no one is stopping you from helping him you can contact him pm or get his address there are thousand ways.

Begging is not allowed we all agree, full stop.

Now please stop humiliating anyone and specially yourself by asking for proofs. Because when you are in doubt those proofs won’t mean anything, real or fake is out question.

I am professional, and the mods here are also experienced and most likely had enough drama and  traumas in their life  for themself or  their relatives to be more skeptical.
I am not  some sloppy and inexperienced girl with no life experiences that lets her emotions control her judgment all the time. who never experienced any pain and locked in her mom´s basement.

Btw If had heart problems  I would provide on my own will documents for mods as  proofs to shut it down once at for all.

Such as delivery apps orders etc. Its easy to upload it on loom and post it here.

If my brother or family member would ask me help and I doubt him I WOULD ASK THE SAME THING.

If he is emotional he will tell me I DONT BELIEVE YOUR MY BROTHER HOW YOU ASK ME THIS.

or if he is highly intellectual  he wil say this:  UNDERSTAND BRO YOU ARE RATIONAL ADULT AND YOU PROBABLY EXPERIENCE SOME SHIT IN LIFE.

I WILL SHOW YOU SOOM PROOF.


yahoo chooed the victim mind that we hold low opinion on him instead of provide a proof

The responses in this thread are less than desirable but That's not on any of you, just the people who made them. It shows that certain people have a low opinion of me and that is their right.

I hope he can provide real proofs and pming them on his will like I would do.
I still believe that it will be a great gesture to reopen the thread if the users provide enough evidence.
But is not my decision to make.  god bless.

What it all comes down to is someone or multiple someones on the forum felt I was in violation of the rules of the forum. Only the forum is allowed to ask for donations, everyone else can put an address in their profile that's it in a nut shell.

You put donations links  also in the thread not just the profile.

Archieve:

https://archive.fo/lBKTU

[macson]

I think it should be fine if provides enough evidence. Maybe mod was pming him and didn´t provide that?
Asking for mod answers. If mods are kind enough for the situation of the man they should allow it.
Any other answer that not coming from mod is not helpful for me.

whatever happened to yahoo, i'm so sad for him, regarding the donation he made, i don't want to be so in making deep comments since he is one of the best reputation member in this forum, i'm sure he's not trying to profit from it.  heart surgery is one of the most expensive and he also said that the donation sent must be based on sympathy not because of compulsion, so in my personal view, he did nothing wrong.

[Poker Player]

This forum never ceases to amaze me. This happened because a member who was ban evading stirred the pot?

I know you moderators are the ultimate interpreters of the rules but I don't agree with what was done, for me he was not "begging", and I donated.

If we are concentrating on rules and enforcing them, why don't we go ahead and ban naim027 who is a ban evader and has been reported as such. Can we also ban  the self admitted ban evader the creator of this thread while we are at it? I don't mind rules being enforced but do them for all cases.

Completely agree.

There are many reasons to ban him, but mostly that he ban evaded repeatedly.

While we're at it, I'll also tell you yahoo62278 that I saw a curious thing that made me decide not to donate to you again, but I'm going to wait until you are in good health to comment on it.

[donationsxp]

Yesterday I felt guilt and  that I caused your thread to be locked and may be some chance that you tell the truth.

But I find worrying staff.
like continuing lack of evidence, not  fully 100% honest.

What it all comes down to is someone or multiple someones on the forum felt I was in violation of the rules of the forum. Only the forum is allowed to ask for donations, everyone else can put an address in their profile that's it in a nut shell.

The donation adress was in the thread itself. Not in your profile.
Archieve: https://archive.fo/lBKTU

[Accardo]

They is a saying, "it's important to be kind than to be important", people had to get emotional about his post, and tried to help. That's what happened, so if it happened to be a begging thread which breaks the forum rule as the moderator said. considering that we are humans and easily moved by things we read especially one that refers to another person's bitter moments, that doesn't mean people shouldn't help a member even if he didn't ask for the help.

[aoluain]

My 2c FWIW,

I commend hilariousandco for responding in the thread and TBH I wouldnt demonise
the mods for their actions, afterall as yahoo points out they had the decency to PM
about it.

What I'm taking from this is that there was donation addresses listed on yahoo's thread
which resulted in the locking of it, if those addresses hadnt been listed this thread for
example wouldnt exist.

Its ok to post up your experience of whatever is happening in your life and if someone asks
to make a donation you can direct them to the addy in your profile, thats ok.

In yahoo's defense I can understand how he or anyone else might have created that
thread, we spend so much time on the forum, some members have very strong
connections with each other and others have very prominent profiles, to share
part of your life with us is understandable. Some would shy away from doing so
others not, we are all different.

As The Sceptical Chymist pointed out, a newbie coming in with, zero history, zero trust, zero merit
and doing what yahoo did would be ripped to shreds, if you have any sort of history
built up in the community you will be welcomed, thats normal/fair.