The future of CEX and no privacy world, will you still become an anonymous?

[Synchronice]

El Salvador started to give $30 for every citizens by creating an account and complete KYC verification in Chivo wallet. AFAIK Nayib Bukele doesn't force their citizens to use Chivo wallet, on the other hands I don't see any activity from Central African Republic to create their own wallet or exchange. Many of Bitcoin enthusiasts are don't like with Chivo wallet due to closed source, custodial and ask KYC verification. It's a way for the El Salvador's government to have a control over their citizens funds, make sure they're not done money laundering or any illegal things, taxing their profit, etc.

I may never understand why people use El Salvador as an example. El Salvador is a corrupt country with one of the highest crime rates in Latin America and in the world. I believe no one inside the country was giving a F the legality of bitcoin in El Salvador. Can this country protect its citizens? No. Can government do anything against local gangs? No. This is an unregulated country in every possible way where laws don't really exist.

Imagine the future of centralized exchange would be:

• They will have a reserved funds and offer insurance funds maximum of (let's say $250,000 for each person). I know Binance have SAFU, but Binance isn't fully regulated, this one is different
• The company will have an auditor and they're transparent to release their financial report for every year.
• They can reverse your transaction, in case you've send Bitcoin to wrong address, network, hacked, etc.

How will they be able to reverse transaction? Once it's gone, it's gone forever. If it's inside the exchange(s) network, then they will be but not everyone sends bitcoin to exchange addresses.

Imagine the future of centralized exchange would be:

I genuinely believe that actual future will be radically different from the one that you imagined. What if government pushes every ecommerce website to ask for KYC documents to their customers? Right now, you can register on Amazon and buy whatever you want without submitting your KYC documents but what if it changes? What if computer ownership becomes as strictly controlled car ownership?
What if every recent computer and smartphone hardware is backdoored?
I mean, we can't predict the future and 21th century is so unpredictable in any aspect, we can't really shape a future in a certain way and discuss it like it's going to happen. Don't get wrong with me, I hope you get it.

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[o_e_l_e_o]

Right now Kucoin still the best exchange because still not required with KYC and keep privacy about how much Bitcoin or altcoin assets we have.

KuCoin is a centralized exchange which can request KYC from you at any time and seize your coins if you don't provide it. Just because you are using a non-KYC account with them at present does not mean you are either safe or private.

CEX is obviously the best, cheapest and safest option as well to do it.

It baffles me that after a number of months in which millions of users have lost billions of dollars worth of crypto to various CEXs scamming, going bankrupt, shutting down, etc., people still try to claim that CEXs are safe or somehow better than trading peer to peer. Sending your coins to a CEX is one of the riskiest things you can do with your bitcoin.

The people, who want maximum anonymity and privacy have something to hide.

What absolute nonsense. Can I put cameras all around your house? Can I have your email passwords? Why do you even wear clothes when out in public? What are you trying to hide!?

[S A KHAIR]

CEX is obviously the best, cheapest and safest option as well to do it.

It baffles me that after a number of months in which millions of users have lost billions of dollars worth of crypto to various CEXs scamming, going bankrupt, shutting down, etc., people still try to claim that CEXs are safe or somehow better than trading peer to peer. Sending your coins to a CEX is one of the riskiest things you can do with your bitcoin.

Maybe CEX is unsafe or not the best choice, but FTX crash doesn't mean Binance or coinbase will crash. FTX does not represent all centralized exchanges, the collapse of FTX should only be blamed on it, not the whole of CEX. Bitcoin is part of the crypto industry, a shitcoin scam, but you cannot say bitcoin is a scam or crypto is a scam.

[Helena Yu]

Or via any good DEX or P2P exchange. Or the best way - just spend it.

Being unable to achieve 100% anonymity does not mean you should therefore accept zero privacy.

I know Bisq is the truly one of good DEX, but since it's an exchange, I think when you want to sold your coins to fiat, the origin source of the money came from Bisq, no? if it's P2P exchange, the origin source would be the one who send you the money. If the banks and CEX know you're using DEX, will it raise a question for them?

You make a good point, I think every person in this world ever expose their identity in internet, but it just depends on each person if he's care with his privacy or not, either he will stop to share anything in social media and delete his whole information or he will don't give a shit and continue to share anything to everyone. But majority of people are in middle, they're okay to give information to online sites e.g. banks, exchange, casino, shitcoins project or something related with financial, but they're not want to give their information to public or random stranger.

I think this is because abuse of personal information isn't a frequent case.

Bitcoin transactions are irreversible. Centralized exchanges can't change the protocol.

How did the courts help people who lost money in Cyprus bailouts? This gives people a false sense of security, that's all.

Correct, I forgot to explain. I think it's somewhat like PayPal where you can only send and receive Bitcoin from PayPal only, you can't send your coin to external wallet. But the good thing is, PayPal now enable to send Bitcoin to external wallet.

Well I'm not really followed about Bank of Cyprus's case, but since it's in crisis situation, they have no funds to cover their clients money. I agree after all any centralized party will not able to prove all of their promise.

I genuinely believe that actual future will be radically different from the one that you imagined. What if government pushes every ecommerce website to ask for KYC documents to their customers? Right now, you can register on Amazon and buy whatever you want without submitting your KYC documents but what if it changes? What if computer ownership becomes as strictly controlled car ownership?
What if every recent computer and smartphone hardware is backdoored?
I mean, we can't predict the future and 21th century is so unpredictable in any aspect, we can't really shape a future in a certain way and discuss it like it's going to happen. Don't get wrong with me, I hope you get it.

It's true anything can happen in the future, but it's sound like you're somewhat have similar speculation with me because you're thinking the government will be very strict about KYC rule even though it's not related with CEX and Bitcoin.

KuCoin is a centralized exchange which can request KYC from you at any time and seize your coins if you don't provide it. Just because you are using a non-KYC account with them at present does not mean you are either safe or private.

It baffles me that after a number of months in which millions of users have lost billions of dollars worth of crypto to various CEXs scamming, going bankrupt, shutting down, etc., people still try to claim that CEXs are safe or somehow better than trading peer to peer. Sending your coins to a CEX is one of the riskiest things you can do with your bitcoin.

Majority of people are like this, they're aware of Kucoin will ask KYC in anytime, but not all people are asked to complete KYC verification. This same applies with CEX, every year CEX always got hacked or scam, but not all CEX suffer that.

They need to get a lesson first before they will learn, but the funny thing there are a lot people never learn even though they have a lot experienced and lesson from their fault.

Maybe CEX is unsafe or not the best choice, but FTX crash doesn't mean Binance or coinbase will crash. FTX does not represent all centralized exchanges, the collapse of FTX should only be blamed on it, not the whole of CEX.

A legend say, time will tell everything

[kryptqnick]

Centralized services do seem to be favoured by the authorities, perhaps because it's much easier to enforce regulations upon them. The op mentioned custodial Chivo wallets and a potential of growth of the centralized exchange market, which are both reasonable predictions. In my country, there's also an example of a centralized exchange (Binance) being a part of collaboration with a network of pharmacies, so if someone wants to pay with Bitcoin for their goods, people can only pay using their Binance accounts.
Of course, such decisions motivate people to turn to centralized services like exchanges, but I am okay with it, as long as decentralized solutions and non-custodial wallets aren't outlawed. And thankfully, while outlawing them is possible, enforcing the ban is extremely hard. So it should be fine, with all sorts of companies and options getting their audience and growing.

[Ucy]

A new financial system that is built contrary to the Bitcoin ideals is knowingly/unknowingly serving the agenda of the tyrants who will take full control of the system or the world in the future.
From my experience so far, I know it will be hard to persuade most people not to embrace the system because it will be so convenient, and the carrots/incentives will be hard for them to resist. You will be hated and attacked by national zombies if you ever try to use Bitcoin the right way. They will make sure you are denied every opportunity to exist or survive. Well, only few out of billions can survive this. They will survive and thrive in a parallel and independent system they built themselves. The system will have all the necessary features the Bitcoin Network has to offer. (Those who depend on GOD will survive pretty well).

By then, most people you interacted with in Crypto space will have nothing to do with you as they have chosen the slave/tyrant path in order to survive... Those who follow the opposite/parallel path are seen as enemies. Those who choose the slave path will hardly remember most things we discussed in Crypto space or what Bitcoin is all about. It will be as if their memories were wiped out and filled with false memories designed by the system. They are part of the enemy's body(body of satan) and will speak in unity


There will be two systems in existence in the future, one for the free the other for slaves. Decentralized Bitcoin will be one of the financial systems used by the free.

[vv181]

Fully maximizing anonymity or privacy seems will always be a specialized niche. There are simply too many gaps between regular users and those who want to maximize it. Regular users are having lack knowledge about their own privacy choice implications or even knowledge. Privacy in a digital world seems too abstract for them. The nature of how the current internet evolves also isn't incentivized privacy as a default choice. With that in mind, the important thing is people have a choice about which path to choose.

[The Cryptovator]

Nowadays, maintaining complete privacy has become impossible for several reasons. One of the causes for buying and selling bitcoin. By using a decentralized exchange, you can trade in anonymity. However, there will be a connection when you buy or sell it unless whatsoever. When dealing with fiat, you must use bank or MFS services, where you must disclose your account information. In other words, even if you didn't submit KYC, the other end will somehow know your information. There is really no easier option, in my opinion. The CEX alone is not a concern.

[darkangel11]

Bitcoin transactions are irreversible. Centralized exchanges can't change the protocol.

How did the courts help people who lost money in Cyprus bailouts? This gives people a false sense of security, that's all.

Correct, I forgot to explain. I think it's somewhat like PayPal where you can only send and receive Bitcoin from PayPal only, you can't send your coin to external wallet. But the good thing is, PayPal now enable to send Bitcoin to external wallet.

That still won't let them reverse a bitcoin transaction, only the fiat transaction. I don't think that any exchange will ever agree to reverse fiat transactions and cover your loss in bitcoin, because that bitcoin transaction (legit or not) did go through and there's no way to reverse it, unless the recipient is also a centralized, regulated exchange that agrees to send it back. In both cases the exchange would have to spend time and money to correct your mistake.

Well I'm not really followed about Bank of Cyprus's case, but since it's in crisis situation, they have no funds to cover their clients money. I agree after all any centralized party will not able to prove all of their promise.

They were in trouble and decided that their clients will have to cover some of the loss to prevent the bank from going bankrupt. Clients who held more than 100k EUR where charged a large fee.
In short, they made their clients pay for their mistakes. It's like if the mechanic would tell you that he's short on cash so he'll take your wheels and sell them so that he can fix your car next time you visit him.

[Plaguedeath]

Nowadays, maintaining complete privacy has become impossible for several reasons. One of the causes for buying and selling bitcoin. By using a decentralized exchange, you can trade in anonymity. However, there will be a connection when you buy or sell it unless whatsoever. When dealing with fiat, you must use bank or MFS services, where you must disclose your account information. In other words, even if you didn't submit KYC, the other end will somehow know your information. There is really no easier option, in my opinion. The CEX alone is not a concern.

Since in Bitcoin you have a choice to choose privacy oriented or no privacy, I think we need to choose privacy oriented even though we're not successfully achieve 100% privacy. If we trade using DEX or P2P, we will a trace about our bank accounts, because it's the way we receive the money. I think good P2P and DEX wouldn't save our credentials, so we wouldn't need to worry if there's data breach problem on that's exchange.

In CEX, the hacker can obtain all of our personal information which have been submitted by us. It will safe and prevent us from criminals who want to search someone who hold a lot Bitcoin.

[NotATether]

Nowadays, maintaining complete privacy has become impossible for several reasons. One of the causes for buying and selling bitcoin. By using a decentralized exchange, you can trade in anonymity. However, there will be a connection when you buy or sell it unless whatsoever. When dealing with fiat, you must use bank or MFS services, where you must disclose your account information. In other words, even if you didn't submit KYC, the other end will somehow know your information. There is really no easier option, in my opinion. The CEX alone is not a concern.

I'm sure we've all had to cough up our identity cards at least once in our lives. The problem though, comes when we are forced to give it to those places which are ripe for abuse, and where they can possibly be stolen.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

-snip-
So what's your choice? are you okay to give your KYC and trust to centralized exchange where they will offer insurance, protect from mistakenly transaction, transparent and you have a right to report to the court when the exchange done wrong. Or you will still become your own bank and privacy oriented, even it will make you harder to enjoy 100% anonymity from future no privacy world?

I like both but I'm a bit picky on trust. At some point I still need centralized exchanges.
To be honest I don't mind doing KYC, just don't trust much of any service that stores my identity. Data breaches have received a lot of special attention lately, as some people try to achieve as much privacy as they can everywhere.

The truth is that, in as much as we all advocate for a decentralized crypto ecosystem, we all at some point will still make use of centralized services, and it doesn't matter whether they ask for KYC verification or not, most would try to pass it as long as doing so would allow them carry out or enjoy whatever services they want to.
I am also not against centralized services, and neither am i against decentralized services as well, I choose and use which is best for whatever service I need at that time in particular , for example, it could be selling or buying of coin that is not listed on any decentralized exchange, in this kind of situation, I am happy passing kyc verification on a centralized exchange as long as doing this will allow me buy or sell the coin of my choice.

[fadhilz123]

Maybe CEX is unsafe or not the best choice, but FTX crash doesn't mean Binance or coinbase will crash. FTX does not represent all centralized exchanges, the collapse of FTX should only be blamed on it, not the whole of CEX. Bitcoin is part of the crypto industry, a shitcoin scam, but you cannot say bitcoin is a scam or crypto is a scam.

Every existing exchange actually has to be sorted individually even though they are included in the same category, namely CEX. Likewise with the crypto industry, Bitcoin and Shitcoin which must also be sorted individually even though the portions almost look the same, but these three things cannot be equated because basically they have their own separate paths. FTX is an exchange in the CEX category that has crashed and that can be used as an example by other CEX exchanges in order to strengthen itself to be better and so as not to crash in the future.

[Mr. Magkaisa]

  -     If I have a centralized exchange to use I only count on my finger the ones I trust, and these are Binance, Huobi, Okex, and others. Whether I pass KYC on these platforms is fine with me.

Today, the country of El Salvador is aware of the adoption of bitcoin and it is one of the best among them. I am also impressed with the bitcoin enthusiasts here because I can tell that they know cryptocurrency and bitcoin.

Many people in this country do not use the Chivo wallet, because they find it to have bad features. And I have read something regarding this matter and judge it for yourself, Six of 10 Salvadorans Quit Using the Chivo Wallet

[Plaguedeath]

Today, the country of El Salvador is aware of the adoption of bitcoin and it is one of the best among them. I am also impressed with the bitcoin enthusiasts here because I can tell that they know cryptocurrency and bitcoin.

Many people in this country do not use the Chivo wallet, because they find it to have bad features. And I have read something regarding this matter and judge it for yourself, Six of 10 Salvadorans Quit Using the Chivo Wallet

It's not today, El Salvador already accept Bitcoin as a currency since 2 years ago.

The reason why people are joining tin this forum are to learn about Bitcoin and crypto, it doesn't make sense if they're don't know about it lol.

It's just your assumptions for saying El Salvadorian don't want to use Chivo wallet because it have bad features. It's actually because El Salvadorian still don't want to use Bitcoin, they just use Chivo wallet in order to earn free of $30 from Nayib Bukele.

“Most users who used Chivo after spending the $30 bonus do not engage with the app intensively,” said the study, based on face-to-face surveys that took place in February with adults in 1,800 households across El Salvador.

[justdimin]

The truth is that, in as much as we all advocate for a decentralized crypto ecosystem, we all at some point will still make use of centralized services, and it doesn't matter whether they ask for KYC verification or not, most would try to pass it as long as doing so would allow them carry out or enjoy whatever services they want to.
I am also not against centralized services, and neither am i against decentralized services as well, I choose and use which is best for whatever service I need at that time in particular , for example, it could be selling or buying of coin that is not listed on any decentralized exchange, in this kind of situation, I am happy passing kyc verification on a centralized exchange as long as doing this will allow me buy or sell the coin of my choice.

I agree to this a lot, I know that I will be able to use decentralized methods as much as I could, but there will be some time when I will be forced to use CEX one way or another. The most common of this is turning my fiat into bitcoin or turning my bitcoin into fiat.

We haven't figured out a way to make that decentralized, and it would be followed by governments anyway, they will know. This is why it could never be 100% anonymous for me, there could be some people who could try to achieve that, but I won't be one of those people and millions of crypto users are just like me. It's fine though, it's not really the point for me, I don't need anonymous, I need decentralized bitcoin with no government controlling it.

[BlackHatCoiner]

But, if you've make a mistake and your banks are successfully detect your funds came from suspicious activity, they will ask you for multiple questions and you need to make them satisfy or convince them.

This is indeed an existent problem. If you're trading peer-to-peer, and you use banks, or stuff like Revolut, your transactions might be subjected to criminal activity. It depends. If you're moving a few hundreds of dollars, it's unlikely they'll get involved into it, even if some of your traders are proved to be criminals. However, if you want to acquire a million dollars worth of bitcoin, it's safer over all to use a CEX, even if you're forced to complete KYC.

I don't think all privacy oriented people will able to escape from this, there's still a chance you will show your identity.

I don't have a problem with showing this activity to the bankers. I just have a problem not knowing who else can view it. That's privacy.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Maybe CEX is unsafe or not the best choice, but FTX crash doesn't mean Binance or coinbase will crash.

Maybe not, but thinking Binance or Coinbase are too big to fail is a mistake. Everyone who used FTX thought they were too big to fail, and not only did the fail, but they were actively scamming the whole time.

Bitcoin is part of the crypto industry, a shitcoin scam, but you cannot say bitcoin is a scam or crypto is a scam.

I never once said bitcoin was a scam. Centralized exchanges are a scam. Bitcoin was used solely peer to peer before centralized exchanges, it can be used solely peer to peer now, and it will continue to be used solely peer to peer once every centralized exchange has exit scammed or been so heavily regulated as to be indistinguishable from a fiat bank.

I know Bisq is the truly one of good DEX, but since it's an exchange, I think when you want to sold your coins to fiat, the origin source of the money came from Bisq, no?

No. The source of the money is whoever you are trading with. Bisq never handles your money.

they're okay to give information to online sites e.g. banks, exchange, casino, shitcoins project or something related with financial, but they're not want to give their information to public or random stranger.

Handing your personal information to a random casino or shitcoin project is indistinguishable from handing it to a random stranger.

[Abiky]

Anonymity and privacy are always a struggle. I cannot have the fullness of them. There are things in which I could stay private or even anonymous. There are things in which I don't have a choice but to reveal my identity and some other personal details which I otherwise would have preferred to keep private. But, again, there's always that struggle to be as private and anonymous as possible. I am my own bank, but at the same time I also have an account in a private bank.

In today's world, it's difficult (if not, impossible) to remain 100% anonymous. Governments always have an "open eye" in ways that you've never imagined. From surveillance cams, to analyzing Internet traffic and bank-related transactions, a person simply cannot escape from the hands of the government.

As far as crypto is concerned, governments are increasing their surveillance efforts to prevent as much people as possible from achieving privacy. It's no secret that KYC/AML rules are mandatory across centralized exchanges. Even some so-called decentralized exchanges (DEXs) are asking for ID verification documents. You'd only be limited to cash transactions in person or crypto-to-crypto trades through a DEX or P2P exchange. Be aware though, that some P2P exchanges are requiring users to verify their ID.

With KYC all over the place, crypto cannot achieve its full potential. I'm afraid there's nothing we can do about it since governments are already in the game. It may not be possible to achieve true anonymity, but at least you won't attract unwanted attention if you follow the necessary safety precautions. As long as you keep a low profile when conducting crypto-related transactions, no one will be able to catch you. Just my thoughts