Bitcoin Forum
December 11, 2024, 07:40:50 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Is Metal Seed Storage Safe in an Earthquake?  (Read 485 times)
Synchronice
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 919



View Profile
March 01, 2023, 09:46:32 AM
 #41

The best way to save yourself is to memorize seed phrase.
Memorization is the worst possible way to back up your seed phrase.

You have to imprint it so well that even if you get amnesia, you should be able to recover that information.
People with amnesia (from any cause, of which there are many) can forget their own name and fail to recognize their immediate family members. They can easily forget a seed phrase.

When you think you have truly memorized them and there is no way you'll forget that, then either destroy your seeds or come up with a better plan.
This is awful advice. If you are ever in a situation where your only back up is your memory, you should either immediately write down what you can remember and test it is still accurate, or you should move all your coins to a new wallet with a properly backed up seed phrase.
Why is it the worst possible way?
When I was a teen, I created bitcoin wallet and remembered seed phrases. Still, today, I remember those phrases. I mean, 8 years have passed and I still remember them. The problem is that I was using words from seed phrases with some additional combinations as a password and I'm never gonna return to that wallet but I still memorized the seed phrases of my recently created wallet and I always memorize my card numbers in case something happens. I also have different passwords for everything, never had a problem since my childhood. So, what's wrong with it? Why is that a bad practice?
Amnesia was a fun example. Definitely, if you get severe amnesia, nothing can help you, you may won't remember what bitcoin is and whether you have it or not but in light cases, there is a chance.

▄▄███████████████████▄▄
▄███████████████████████▄
████████▀░░░░░░░▀████████
███████░░░░░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░░░░███████
██████▀░░░░░░░░░░░▀██████
██████▄░░░░░▄███▄░▄██████
██████████▀▀█████████████
████▀▄██▀░░░░▀▀▀░▀██▄▀███
███░░▀░░░░░░░░░░░░░▀░░███
████▄▄░░░░▄███▄░░░░▄▄████
▀███████████████████████▀
▀▀███████████████████▀▀
 
 CHIPS.GG 
▄▄███████▄▄
▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄
███▀░▄░▀▀▀▀▀░▄░▀███
▄███
░▄▀░░░░░░░░░▀▄░███▄
▄███░▄░░░▄█████▄░░░▄░███▄
███░▄▀░░░███████░░░▀▄░███
███░█░░░▀▀▀▀▀░░░▀░░░█░███
███░▀▄░▄▀░▄██▄▄░▀▄░▄▀░██
▀███
░▀░▀▄██▀░▀██▄▀░▀░██▀
▀███
░▀▄░░░░░░░░░▄▀░██▀
▀███▄
░▀░▄▄▄▄▄░▀░▄███▀
▀█
███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀
█████████████████████████
▄▄███████▄▄
███
████████████▄
▄█▀▀▀▄
█████████▄▀▀▀█▄
▄██████▀▄▄▄▄▄▀██████▄
▄█████████████▄████████▄
████████▄███████▄████████
█████▄█████████▄██████
██▄▄▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀▄▄██
▀█████████▀▀███████████▀
▀███████████████████▀
██████████████████
▀████▄███▄▄
████▀
████████████████████████
3000+
UNIQUE
GAMES
|
12+
CURRENCIES
ACCEPTED
|
VIP
REWARD
PROGRAM
 
 
  Play Now  
o_e_l_e_o
In memoriam
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2268
Merit: 18771


View Profile
March 01, 2023, 11:24:32 AM
 #42

So, what's wrong with it? Why is that a bad practice?
Because your brain is incredible fragile, and millions of people each year suffer significant brain injuries which can lead to memory loss, at no fault of their own and with absolutely zero warning. And even without such an injury, people forget things all the time. I certainly don't want the possibility that my back ups simple cease to exist at any moment in time.

Each year:

69 million traumatic brain injuries: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29701556/
12 million strokes: https://www.world-stroke.org/assets/downloads/WSO_Global_Stroke_Fact_Sheet.pdf
10 million new diagnoses of dementia: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/dementia
5 million new diagnoses of epilepsy: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/epilepsy
2.5 million cases of meningitis: https://www.path.org/articles/toward-world-without-meningitis/
2 million new brain tumors: https://academic.oup.com/noa/article/3/1/vdaa178/6043315
1.5 million cases of encephalitis: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163445322002110

That's each year, and that's only major conditions which directly affect the brain. Add in things like cardiac arrest, heart disease, sepsis, shock, diabetes, vascular injury, hemorrhage, poisoning, smoke inhalation, etc., all of which can cause secondary brain injury, and there are literally hundreds of millions of people every single year who suffer some form of insult to their brain which can lead to memory problems.

Do you want to trust all your coins to those odds? I know I don't.
hugeblack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2716
Merit: 4032



View Profile WWW
March 01, 2023, 12:59:43 PM
 #43

Why is it the worst possible way?
The brain deals with numbers better. For example, you can remember your bank account if it has numbers less than 10 digits, and remember one-to-five different password, but you will not remember all your passwords or phone numbers on your phone.
Many psychology experiments have found that the maximum number of words can be remembered, which is 7 words on average, which means that you need to write 5 words, otherwise trying to brute force It will cost you a lot.

█▀▀▀











█▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
e
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
█████████████
████████████▄███
██▐███████▄█████▀
█████████▄████▀
███▐████▄███▀
████▐██████▀
█████▀█████
███████████▄
████████████▄
██▄█████▀█████▄
▄█████████▀█████▀
███████████▀██▀
████▀█████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
c.h.
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀█











▄▄▄█
▄██████▄▄▄
█████████████▄▄
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███░░█████████
███▌▐█████████
█████████████
███████████▀
██████████▀
████████▀
▀██▀▀
Welsh
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3318
Merit: 4116


View Profile
March 01, 2023, 10:45:18 PM
 #44

When I was a teen, I created bitcoin wallet and remembered seed phrases. Still, today, I remember those phrases. I mean, 8 years have passed and I still remember them.
The day you stop using it regularly, your brain will become a little more fragmented. The thing is, our brain is somewhat good at short term memory, however the longer you leave it the worse it gets. That's without considering aging, various conditions the brain can be subject too, and the fact that no one can predict a fall which could damage the brain.

I know of someone who died while riding their bike, but it was probably just as easy for them to have sustained brain injuries (which is what happened), not died, and have memory loss as a result. In fact, it was determined that if they did survive, they'd have significant brain damage. That's just riding a bike, but we all drive cars or even walk has a little bit of risk associated with it.

There's a ton of things in life that can happen, that you just can't prepare for. You can try, and plan ahead, but you'll unlikely cover all the basis' unless you have others that can help you, i.e trusted people within your life.
bpkdasbaum
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 14


View Profile
March 29, 2023, 12:32:00 PM
Merited by hZti (1)
 #45

What happened in Turkey made me think carefully about how to keep my cold storage wallet seeds.

I keep them in a waterproof and fireproof notebook, but is there any proof of the efficiency of this Metal Seeds and/or notebooks with earthquakes? Does it bear the violent shocks?
What are the solutions, in your opinion, if an earthquake occurs? Or in other words, the best solution if you are in an area active in earthquakes and tsunamis.

- Yamane

Yes, Metal can survive a house toppling down (see stresstest links below), but you shouldn't rely on it. You should have redundancy backups.

Make 3 seed backups in steel washers (or titanium). And ideally encrypt them with a simple cipher (easiest and fastest) or use a passphrase and store that separately.

Earthquake proof, Low cost, affordable, easily scalable, indestructible, fireproof 1400°C (a house fire is around 1100°C), waterproof, corrosion proof, shock proof, offline cold wallet, seed or passphrase backup.

https://i.etsystatic.com/41503409/r/il/689efd/4813988559/il_1588xN.4813988559_fcds.jpg
Picture taken from here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1434977816

More information on that topic here:

https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/
https://incoherency.co.uk/blog/stories/diy-cryptosteel-capsule.html
http://bulletproofbitcoin.com/
https://blog.lopp.net/a-treatise-on-bitcoin-seed-backup-device-design/
https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup
https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!