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Question: Should Bitcoin100 allocated the first funded wallet to archive.org (with provisos added)?
Yes
No

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BTCurious
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December 14, 2011, 01:45:25 PM
 #41

i gave them bitcoin.. 4.5% did not go to them?Huh wtf?Huh  this is bull shit.. this is why i hate charity...
If you gave bitcoin, everything went to them. If you used a different option they supplied, like the justgive.org thing, then it takes a fee.
They got all the bitcoin.

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December 14, 2011, 01:53:30 PM
 #42

while it doesn't feel right to punish them for accepting Bitcoin on their own, the fact is that they don't need the extra incentive

This to me is all the more reason why they should be chosen as the first place to donate Bitcoin.  They are huge.  They don't need any extra incentive or what not.  We aren't here to promote them though, we are here to promote Bitcoin.    

It works on so many levels too, you have the actual Archive.org staff who will not be checking shit out, the general web users of Archive.org, which I would say if you are using that site in the first place, most likely you know how to use a computer.  That site doesn't come up on an AOL front page, that site is for people who are on their computers and have some kind of use where they got to the point of using Archive.org.  Their backing is the backing of smarter users.

Now I know this does not please scammers and people who are into Bitcoin for a quick buck, but for all you people who want Bitcoin to succeed in the long run, having Bitcoin incorporated and accepted as a regular part of Archive.org screams legitimacy.   For every person saying "uh.. that internet money is just used to buy drugs" will now have another bigger site to point to saying they use it to.   I think I may be misunderstanding something, but I see only big positives if the majority were to vote for Archive.org as the first to kick start this donation thing.  

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December 14, 2011, 01:54:10 PM
 #43

Could an admin/moderator restart the poll so we don't have to wait until Phinnaeus comes back? We need to get a decision done asap that reflects the current situation.

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December 14, 2011, 01:59:09 PM
 #44

Could an admin/moderator restart the poll so we don't have to wait until Phinnaeus comes back? We need to get a decision done asap that reflects the current situation.

Yes, cause I thought I've noticed a couple of people saying they changed their vote, and this is pretty damn close.   But then everyone would have to be alerted to re-vote if they did so already.  Or start a new poll.  I think this is how those elections got fucked up when Bush was put in office or something lol

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December 14, 2011, 02:02:52 PM
 #45

Yes, cause I thought I've noticed a couple of people saying they changed their vote, and this is pretty damn close.   But then everyone would have to be alerted to re-vote if they did so already.  Or start a new poll.  I think this is how those elections got fucked up when Bush was put in office or something lol
We can wait until the amount of votes is similar to what it is now. But it will be done faster the sooner we have a new vote.

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December 14, 2011, 02:08:00 PM
 #46

This public vote is a scam!   Only people in the Bitcoin100 can vote.  So that means Gage has to send a PM to each member asking for their response.  And at that time he can include the message that from now on, if they want to be in any votes, they have to keep an eye on the main Bitcoin100 thread, so he doesn't have to spam everyone again lol

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December 14, 2011, 02:12:22 PM
 #47

Well hopefully all users will keep in mind they put in a pledge for a purpose, and now approaching the first possible donation, we are able to see these little issues that need to be mended.  Growing pains, keep the faith, Gage will make good Smiley

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December 14, 2011, 02:32:39 PM
 #48

This public vote is a scam!   Only people in the Bitcoin100 can vote.  So that means Gage has to send a PM to each member asking for their response.  And at that time he can include the message that from now on, if they want to be in any votes, they have to keep an eye on the main Bitcoin100 thread, so he doesn't have to spam everyone again lol

im losing faith in this due to lack of organization/clarity...

Your realise that was a joke - no one has received a message etc.
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December 14, 2011, 02:52:11 PM
 #49

This public vote is a scam!   Only people in the Bitcoin100 can vote.  So that means Gage has to send a PM to each member asking for their response.  And at that time he can include the message that from now on, if they want to be in any votes, they have to keep an eye on the main Bitcoin100 thread, so he doesn't have to spam everyone again lol

im losing faith in this due to lack of organization/clarity...

Your realise that was a joke - no one has received a message etc.

Yeah...

Should we all have a vote based on the number of bitcoins we sent? Cos I sent 200. Since it's anonymous who knows who sent what anyway? And the vote isn't a binding agreement and it really doesn't matter for the sake of $3 (or $600 in my case).
I'm sure the people maintaining the wallet will happily refund you your bitcoin if you ask them. The people involved in this are not scammers and are not playing games.

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December 14, 2011, 03:05:43 PM
 #50

This public vote is a scam!   Only people in the Bitcoin100 can vote.  So that means Gage has to send a PM to each member asking for their response.  And at that time he can include the message that from now on, if they want to be in any votes, they have to keep an eye on the main Bitcoin100 thread, so he doesn't have to spam everyone again lol

im losing faith in this due to lack of organization/clarity...

Your realise that was a joke - no one has received a message etc.

Yeah...

Should we all have a vote based on the number of bitcoins we sent? Cos I sent 200. Since it's anonymous who knows who sent what anyway? And the vote isn't a binding agreement and it really doesn't matter for the sake of $3 (or $600 in my case).
I'm sure the people maintaining the wallet will happily refund you your bitcoin if you ask them. The people involved in this are not scammers and are not playing games.



Why do you think they are scammers?? There is no need for that sort of talk. However they should clearly get their plan down and express it a bit better. I had no idea public voting would be going on. If you want a refund I'm sure they will respond to you. I'm happy they keep what I pledged but I will read the fine print in the future...




There was no fine print - it's just a loose idea expressed on an internet discussion board between like minded(ish) people.
If you don't want to be involved then don't be involved - I think everyone who put their name forward, on the whole knew, that it wasn't clear how it would pan out or how it would work or how it would be organised. It was just the seed of an idea that we hoped would flourish into something interesting. And I personally have no doubts that it will grow into something that is worth supporting.
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December 14, 2011, 03:17:15 PM
 #51

Oh shit, you are just a troll.. I thought you really sent in 200 coins... You only sent in one...

Yeah.. since they have yet to receive 100 anyway. It's called humour I believe.

http://blockexplorer.com/a/5Lz5WHd44p

EDIT - though just becasue I said I sent a bitcoin how do you know how many I sent? - maybe I didn't send any and just wanted the kudos and respect of my peers.
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December 14, 2011, 03:33:49 PM
 #52

In an ideal world here is what I would like to see:

Button [Donate through JustGive.org] we only get 95.5%
Button [Donate through PayPal] we only get 95% (or whatever the real number is)
Button [Donate using Bitcoins] we get 100% of your donation!
OR Donate using Bitcoins to 17gN64BPHtxi4mEM3qWrxdwhieUvRq8R2r and we get 100% of your donation!


Having said that, I vote we now give them the 100 BTC and here is why.  My initial concern (that the Bitcoin donation was way down at the bottom where no one could see it) has been addressed.  They now have Bitcoins mentioned right there next to PayPal - what else could we ask for?  Anyone who actually has BTC to donate can now easily get their address.

What we want is publicity, right.  What better thing to be able to splash, tweet, etc. than "Archive.org got 445.04892494 Bitcoins, worth over $1300, in less than a week after simply adding Bitcoin to their donation options"

We can do this by adding our 100 to the 345.04892494 they already have.  So already having 345.04892494 donated only amplifies the effect of our 100 BTC - it does not diminish it.

We are all in this for the long haul and we have 99 more charities to go, right?

Finally, at the end of the day we are talking about just $312 $320 $319 here...

Let's get this one done and start on the next one.

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December 14, 2011, 03:36:55 PM
 #53

Oh shit, you are just a troll.. I thought you really sent in 200 coins... You only sent in one...

Yeah.. since they have yet to receive 100 anyway. It's called humour I believe.

http://blockexplorer.com/a/5Lz5WHd44p

EDIT - though just becasue I said I sent a bitcoin how do you know how many I sent? - maybe I didn't send any and just wanted the kudos and respect of my peers.

I just want to quote this so he can't edit this later...    Also I admit I got trolled... My moral for this sort of thing is very low right now...

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December 14, 2011, 04:02:39 PM
 #54

They do have a good chunk of BTC in a very short amount of time without the extra 100, but they also moved the donation link up.  It's interesting to look over the sites in the wiki that accept bitcoin donations, and their publicly available donation amounts.  Placement of the donation option does seem to have an impact on the amounts received.  Either way I think it would be good to point out in any Bitcoin100 comunications that placement of the button or address is important.  I'm really in the middle on archive.org.

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December 14, 2011, 04:52:22 PM
 #55

They now have Bitcoins mentioned right there next to PayPal - what else could we ask for?
...
Let's get this one done and start on the next one.

Precisely. We need organizations to embrace bitcoin and yet debate whether or not we should donate?
As a member of bitcoin100 I say just send them the darned coins.
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December 14, 2011, 04:57:51 PM
 #56

Oh shit, you are just a troll.. I thought you really sent in 200 coins... You only sent in one...

Yeah.. since they have yet to receive 100 anyway. It's called humour I believe.

http://blockexplorer.com/a/5Lz5WHd44p

EDIT - though just becasue I said I sent a bitcoin how do you know how many I sent? - maybe I didn't send any and just wanted the kudos and respect of my peers.

I just want to quote this so he can't edit this later...    Also I admit I got trolled... My moral for this sort of thing is very low right now...

Isha Vasya idam sarvam (respectfully)

I see someone has been reading the Energizer Bunny post.

Now that I've gotten the morning funnies out of my system, I'll proceed to address what needs addressing in posts here and at the Bitcoin100 thread.
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December 14, 2011, 08:04:48 PM
 #57

Before I offer up my opinions on posts in this topic, I want to let you folks know that I've registered a new user name on this forum to solely use, more or less, for all things considered Bitcoin100. The user name is Bitcoin 100 (the space, irrelevant), of which I've formally requested to be whitelisted. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=47977

Voted "no". They already received over 250 bitcoin. At this point 100 bitcoin is less impressive, because the 250 in a week was impressive enough as it is.
Apart from that, I think bitcoin100 is more of a "x in need" kind of charity support, although I guess we could branch out to whatever we fancy.

Bitcoin100 will most definitely fork off into different paths, but that's further down the road. Currently, a strong foundation is being laid, enabling us to travel on a smooth surface, thereby easily incorporating adjunct ventures if warranted.

Quote
"x in need"

Practically, most charity-type organizations are experiencing a 'dire straight' situation, in some form or another. Weighing their financial strength, or weakness, is only one part of determining which organization should be approached by Bitcoin100.

As far as the slogan goes (no, it's not going anywhere, but...), I envisioned it directed at the potential charitable organizations, emphasizing that everybody who donates Bitcoin to them, they receive 100% of those funds--no transfer fees.
Exactly. "All our donation (the donations collected through us, the Bitcoin100) are belong to you (the charity who keeps 100%)".

BTW, that slogan I came up with is just an idea, and no way am I trying to push that we use it, though it can be considered a talking point (do points talk?).
That can be used as a litmus test for choosing charities. If it crosses our minds to approach an organization with this slogan, it's probably not the kind of charity we are looking for.

My slogan idea was just a brainfart at the time. Again, I was tired when I thought up the idea. It was something I was thinking of reading on some charitable organizations website, not the official Bitcoin100 website which, by the way, is in the works. More on this later. Any slogan, motto, etc., used in conjunction with Bitcoin100 will have as much strength as possible that can be mustered up, like the next quoted post points out.

archive.org's "Every bit helps" is nice too. "Bitcoin donations: Every bit helps. With bitcoin you can donate amounts as small as a cent, without any middle man profiting from your gift."

Strong! Now we're getting somewhere. This, or a variant of, idea is so strong, consider it stolen.

I voted for us because I want orgs to start taking the coin. However I wish the would make a bitcoin button as large as their paypal button. I had to read the page 3 times to see it...

As seen here http://www.archive.org/donate/index.php the best we should hope for is having a Bitcoin button with the same relative size, color, and font. But, on the left side of this page http://www.archive.org/web/web.php (scroll down a tad), you'll see their list of contributors. Bitcoin can easily be placed on this list depending on the criteria for them doing such.

I voted no
because the Archive is an excellent campaign but it is not the bitcoin100 ;p I just think the bitcoin100 should stick to it's guns on promoting to as many 'charaties' as possible.

  I did notice that Archive.org added the donate to bitcoin link to their donate page now. That is awesome. But it is just a fine start. I think the Archive campaign should suggest they further simplify it for their donators by making it a 'button'.  Bit-pay or similar have buttons for donating now right?

Edit; Justgive charges them 4.5% from each donation. shame shame.

   Cheers,
    Derek

Possibly seen on a future charitable organization's donation page:

By choosing Bitcoin as a donation option, we incur no transfer fees, therefore 100% of your donation are belong to us (or something like that).


By choosing Bitcoin as your donation option, we incur no transfer fees. Therefore 100% of your donation is received in kind, keeping the spirit of giving going to those in need.

@sadpandatech: I truly like what you wrote here, but why do I continue to trip over 'giving going' each time I read it? I'm not an expert grammarian, therefore it's either grammatically correct or needs addressing. My effin' head can't get wrapped around that wording. Please correct me if I'm in error. Again, I truly like the post, and in no way trying to be hypercritical here.

We should restart this vote now that archive.org decided to change the position of the Bitcoin donation link. This changes things in my mind.

Regardless on what the final vote is this poll, it'll should only be used a bellwether in our determination, now that the situation has changed somewhat. We can easily use the poll results, coupled with the sentiment expressed here and the other thread, to resolve this issue.

while it doesn't feel right to punish them for accepting Bitcoin on their own, the fact is that they don't need the extra incentive

This to me is all the more reason why they should be chosen as the first place to donate Bitcoin.  They are huge.  They don't need any extra incentive or what not.  We aren't here to promote them though, we are here to promote Bitcoin.    

It works on so many levels too, you have the actual Archive.org staff who will not be checking shit out, the general web users of Archive.org, which I would say if you are using that site in the first place, most likely you know how to use a computer.  That site doesn't come up on an AOL front page, that site is for people who are on their computers and have some kind of use where they got to the point of using Archive.org.  Their backing is the backing of smarter users.

Now I know this does not please scammers and people who are into Bitcoin for a quick buck, but for all you people who want Bitcoin to succeed in the long run, having Bitcoin incorporated and accepted as a regular part of Archive.org screams legitimacy.   For every person saying "uh.. that internet money is just used to buy drugs" will now have another bigger site to point to saying they use it to.   I think I may be misunderstanding something, but I see only big positives if the majority were to vote for Archive.org as the first to kick start this donation thing.  


Another great post!

Could an admin/moderator restart the poll so we don't have to wait until Phinnaeus comes back? We need to get a decision done asap that reflects the current situation.

Yes, cause I thought I've noticed a couple of people saying they changed their vote, and this is pretty damn close.   But then everyone would have to be alerted to re-vote if they did so already.  Or start a new poll.  I think this is how those elections got fucked up when Bush was put in office or something lol

What do you think about my bellwether idea, Technomage & BP?

im not even sure why we are even voting... i think either we are all (who paid) get to vote or its up to the head of the org... letting the public vote?

I started the poll to help give us a direction in regard to the issue at hand. The idea in my mind, at the time, was leaning towards having the result determine our direction, but that my now prove futile since things have changed. My only regret upon reflecting back is that I didn't click the option of having one change there vote after they have voted. I tried my best to cover as many bases as possible with this approached, but see now that I've fouled.

Well hopefully all users will keep in mind they put in a pledge for a purpose, and now approaching the first possible donation, we are able to see these little issues that need to be mended.  Growing pains, keep the faith, Gage will make good Smiley

I do not think of myself as a "user" but I already sent my bitcoin. I thought it was a done deal. I will be more careful in the future...

Thank you, BP.

I am on record, over on the Bitcoin100 thread, for stating that if there is ever a misunderstanding, I would refund Bitcoin from my personal wallet, so that no funds are even removed from the donation wallet with the exception of it being transferred to a charitable organization.

Please forgive, Goat, for the misunderstanding, for I'm mostly to blame for this mix-up. Reason I take the blame is that I don't have a central location (the main thread's no longer cutting it) in place, as of yet, where one can easily go to and see exactly what is currently transpiring.

This public vote is a scam!   Only people in the Bitcoin100 can vote.  So that means Gage has to send a PM to each member asking for their response.  And at that time he can include the message that from now on, if they want to be in any votes, they have to keep an eye on the main Bitcoin100 thread, so he doesn't have to spam everyone again lol

im losing faith in this due to lack of organization/clarity...

Your realise that was a joke - no one has received a message etc.

Yeah...

Should we all have a vote based on the number of bitcoins we sent? Cos I sent 200. Since it's anonymous who knows who sent what anyway? And the vote isn't a binding agreement and it really doesn't matter for the sake of $3 (or $600 in my case).
I'm sure the people maintaining the wallet will happily refund you your bitcoin if you ask them. The people involved in this are not scammers and are not playing games.


Why do you think they are scammers?? There is no need for that sort of talk. However they should clearly get their plan down and express it a bit better. I had no idea public voting would be going on. If you want a refund I'm sure they will respond to you. I'm happy they keep what I pledged but I will read the fine print in the future...


But if I would have had a central location for one to go to, there would have been less confusion, to date.

In an ideal world here is what I would like to see:

Button [Donate through JustGive.org] we only get 95.5%
Button [Donate through PayPal] we only get 95% (or whatever the real number is)
Button [Donate using Bitcoins] we get 100% of your donation!
OR Donate using Bitcoins to 17gN64BPHtxi4mEM3qWrxdwhieUvRq8R2r and we get 100% of your donation!


Having said that, I vote we now give them the 100 BTC and here is why.  My initial concern (that the Bitcoin donation was way down at the bottom where no one could see it) has been addressed.  They now have Bitcoins mentioned right there next to PayPal - what else could we ask for?  Anyone who actually has BTC to donate can now easily get their address.

What we want is publicity, right.  What better thing to be able to splash, tweet, etc. than "Archive.org got 445.04892494 Bitcoins, worth over $1300, in less than a week after simply adding Bitcoin to their donation options"

We can do this by adding our 100 to the 345.04892494 they already have.  So already having 345.04892494 donated only amplifies the effect of our 100 BTC - it does not diminish it.

We are all in this for the long haul and we have 99 more charities to go, right?

Finally, at the end of the day we are talking about just $312 $320 $319 here...

Let's get this one done and start on the next one.

The original idea consist of no less than 100 charitable organizations. I truly envision this project, in its current state, taking flight and soaring until it's no longer needed, whereupon afterwards Bitcoin100 will concentrate on other charitable fronts. But that's further down the road, as I've previously stated.

I like your tweet idea, for tweets like that will surely written. https://twitter.com/#!/Bitcoin100

They do have a good chunk of BTC in a very short amount of time without the extra 100, but they also moved the donation link up.  It's interesting to look over the sites in the wiki that accept bitcoin donations, and their publicly available donation amounts.  Placement of the donation option does seem to have an impact on the amounts received.  Either way I think it would be good to point out in any Bitcoin100 comunications that placement of the button or address is important.  I'm really in the middle on archive.org.

Earlier in this post, I mention creating a button that looks like the PayPal on archive.org's donation page. I believe we don't have to do that because that part of their CMS makeup. All they have to do is create the button with CSS and word it with Bitcoin. Correct me if I'm wrong.

~~~~~

This conclude the addressing of posts sharing my opinions, here. Now I'm off to the other thread to see what awaits me there. Also, hopefully, the user name Bitcoin 100 has been whitelisted. But first, a fresh cup of coffee.

~Bruno~
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December 14, 2011, 08:52:52 PM
 #58

Bruno, you have a point. We don't really need another poll to solve this, I think we can make the decision based on what we have. The poll already has more yes votes and at least my vote would change from no to yes if we did it again. And the whole community, not only Bitcoin100, seems to be really impressed with what the Internet Archive did. I don't think anybody will be pissed if the first wallet is allocated to them. Not only are they interested in Bitcoin, the service they provide is a good cause.

But I think that after this we should really start focusing on contacting organizations. I know we don't even have full 100 members yet, but we are close, and the amount of BTC in total is already over 100 I think. Doesn't mean we should quit recruiting more members to this effort, but we should go forward with our plans to contact charities.

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December 14, 2011, 09:34:41 PM
 #59

After some consideration, I think I would change my vote to a yes as well. How about we just let those who pledged/donated say if they want their portion to go? We don't have to donate an even 100 amount, this time, do we? I am also a tad concerned that some of the people who donated 10BTC may have wanted this to go to an actual charity. Honestly I have never even heard of Archive.org until yesterday. But they have voluntarily jumped through lots of hoops to do what they did.

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December 14, 2011, 10:10:33 PM
 #60

I've mention earlier, reaching out to June at archive.org and laying our position totally on the line. The last thing we would want from them is WTF. I'm sure that they're overwhelm with the response, to date, that has transpired in such a short period of time. She just may say to us to let the current funded wallet go to a more worthy organization as their goodwill effort to funding a needy charity. We don't know till we ask. That said, who here has been in contact with June? (sorry for not researching this myself, but tryin' to get caught up here)
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