Bitcoin and Ponzi Schemes - People are confused.

[uneng]

I watch a popular breakfast show every morning and they always have a section where they talk about money matters. Yesterday, they talked about Crypto currencies and the guest mentioned several Ponzi schemes where Bitcoin was used as a payment option.

These Ponzi schemes collapsed and according to him ....many people lost money in Bitcoin. They have a WhatsApp group for the program and I immediately corrected that statement, because people did not lose money in Bitcoin.... they lost money in a Ponzi scheme that used Bitcoin as a payment option.

Now, this does not sound very important, but it actually are one of the most critical things that needs to be addressed. We should counter all of these misinformed people, with education on what Bitcoin is, because they lose money on Ponzi schemes and then they blame it on Bitcoin.

These programs should proportionate a fair debate about bitcoin by inviting a bitcoin enthusiast and a bitcoin criticizer, so these points could be brought into the discussion to enlight the population about the facts behind so many accusations bitcoin has been suffering since its beginning.

Logic and reality wouldn't allow the concept of "bitcoin equals to ponzi" to remain alive on the mentality of the laymen people.

[panganib999]

Thanks for fighting the good fight and setting the record straight, but this discussion has been up since time immemorial, that at this point all that one really needs to disprove this "bitcoin = ponzi" logic is to get their lazy asses of the couch and do a quick google search. Some people have been very enthusiastic about this debate back in 2018 when this is still a pressing topic but as what some people in this thread have mentioned, there are other more important topics at hand that should be given focus.

[Raflesia]

Thanks for fighting the good fight and setting the record straight, but this discussion has been up since time immemorial, that at this point all that one really needs to disprove this "bitcoin = ponzi" logic is to get their lazy asses of the couch and do a quick google search. Some people have been very enthusiastic about this debate back in 2018 when this is still a pressing topic but as what some people in this thread have mentioned, there are other more important topics at hand that should be given focus.

The problem for now is that even if we try hard to convince everyone that it's not ponzi I don't think it will be taken too seriously because there are several factors like there are still many people who are skeptical and there are still many naive people who fall for scams in bitcoin.
Even though it's not Bitcoin's fault, it still has a stigma like that. I think the most important thing in this case is to establish to yourself and those closest to you that it is wrong because you also cannot force other people's opinion that this is not ponzi either.

[lousie9]

We should counter all of these misinformed people, with education on what Bitcoin is, because they lose money on Ponzi schemes and then they blame it on Bitcoin.

Each individual already has his own burden of thoughts or conflicts. Against all the misinformed people about the Ponzi scheme in the name of Bitcoin, I think it might be drains our energy and makes us depressed, I think it's bad for our mental health.
Trying to provide insight or justify a negative understanding of Bitcoin to our family or the people closest to us, sometimes we are often overwhelmed, right? It's better for us to do something real and realistic according to our abilities such as by giving insight to the people closest to us or people who are interested in Bitcoin, it will be easier than fighting the thoughts of people we don't know. Or maybe if we want to reach a wider community we can make articles or content about Bitcoins which is acceptable and makes sense to other people, but it requires great effort and is not easy way.

[Rockstarguy]

These Ponzi schemes collapsed and according to him ....many people lost money in Bitcoin. They have a WhatsApp group for the program and I immediately corrected that statement, because people did not lose money in Bitcoin.... they lost money in a Ponzi scheme that used Bitcoin as a payment option.

Misinformation has caused a lot of persons to not invest and be committed to investing in bitcoins, It is their loss because that misinformation will lead to regret if not corrected. I lost some money too to a Ponzi scheme that used bitcoins, and that was my very first exposure to bitcoins. It was not a pleasant period, but because I knew that since there were other Ponzi schemes during that time too that were not using bitcoins, I knew that It was not bitcoins to be blamed, but the Ponzi-scheme itself. Misinformation is even sometimes more better than no information, Instead of accepting wrong information, choose to remain uninformed. There is a lot of information flying around, For whatever information that you need that comes to you, it is your duty to verify.

Likewise. I have had a similar incident of losing Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme very early on, in fact, that was my introduction to Bitcoin because my colleague then introduced me to this very Ponzi scheme and didn't know that we were both going to lose. Then we were to pay for a service with Bitcoin which he told me and we did as I said, my introduction to Bitcoin but that didn't stop me from investing afterward when I really got to understand Bitcoin. I also believe aside from misinformation, personal belief too matters.

If I may even ask what could be their reason of using bitcoin? Are they just trying to hide their evil plans to later on blame bitcoin for their fraudulent activities. People who don't know what Bitcoin is all about would think Bitcoin and ponzi are related not knowing this people who are into ponzi are just too smart in scamming people. The truth is that no matter what, the people who have for victims into scheme like this will always find out the truth knowing what Bitcoin is all about.

[qwertyup23]

Thanks for fighting the good fight and setting the record straight, but this discussion has been up since time immemorial, that at this point all that one really needs to disprove this "bitcoin = ponzi" logic is to get their lazy asses of the couch and do a quick google search. Some people have been very enthusiastic about this debate back in 2018 when this is still a pressing topic but as what some people in this thread have mentioned, there are other more important topics at hand that should be given focus.

The problem for now is that even if we try hard to convince everyone that it's not ponzi I don't think it will be taken too seriously because there are several factors like there are still many people who are skeptical and there are still many naive people who fall for scams in bitcoin.
Even though it's not Bitcoin's fault, it still has a stigma like that. I think the most important thing in this case is to establish to yourself and those closest to you that it is wrong because you also cannot force other people's opinion that this is not ponzi either.

I agree with you. I think the problem with ponzi-schemes boils down with the responsibility of the person attempting it. Even if they are warned about its engagement, if they still want to try it, then they are free to do so. At the end of the day, the loss will be on their side in the event that the ponzi-scheme closes at any time of the day.

Personally, I have an experience with a ponzi-scheme where I thought the returns were to good to be true. I invested $80 worth of BTC in hopes of having a 120% return at the end of 3-6 months of investing on their website. After two (2) months of being operational, the company decided to quit, in which I lost all of my BTCs in the process.

If people are still willing to try these ridiculous rates, then they must also bear the consequences and embrace them at the same time.

[DapanasFruit]

I agree with this assessment...victims of scams like Ponzi did not lose money because of Bitcoin because it is just used as the medium of exchange just like the dollar or any other currency for that matter. However, this association is quite understandable all because Bitcoin remains to be relatively young and people don't have the time to scrutinize the details. It is just sad that the mainstream media is not correcting this wrong impression...as they are actually looking for good headlines to take in more attention for the content they are marketing. But generally am not worried because eventually people will realize that Bitcoin is not on fault here but people who are greedy (both the operators and the victims) as they all want easy, fast money. 

[EarnOnVictor]

These Ponzi schemes collapsed and according to him ....many people lost money in Bitcoin. They have a WhatsApp group for the program and I immediately corrected that statement, because people did not lose money in Bitcoin.... they lost money in a Ponzi scheme that used Bitcoin as a payment option.

Misinformation has caused a lot of persons to not invest and be committed to investing in bitcoins, It is their loss because that misinformation will lead to regret if not corrected. I lost some money too to a Ponzi scheme that used bitcoins, and that was my very first exposure to bitcoins. It was not a pleasant period, but because I knew that since there were other Ponzi schemes during that time too that were not using bitcoins, I knew that It was not bitcoins to be blamed, but the Ponzi-scheme itself. Misinformation is even sometimes more better than no information, Instead of accepting wrong information, choose to remain uninformed. There is a lot of information flying around, For whatever information that you need that comes to you, it is your duty to verify.

Likewise. I have had a similar incident of losing Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme very early on, in fact, that was my introduction to Bitcoin because my colleague then introduced me to this very Ponzi scheme and didn't know that we were both going to lose. Then we were to pay for a service with Bitcoin which he told me and we did as I said, my introduction to Bitcoin but that didn't stop me from investing afterward when I really got to understand Bitcoin. I also believe aside from misinformation, personal belief too matters.

What you just explained is where the main problem came from, people were swindled and are still being swindled with their hard-earned money using Bitcoin as a payment system. This is now more lucrative because of the privacy and anonymity that could be achieved through the coin.

But it's high time people know that Bitcoin is not any scheme, not a program that promises money in return, but a payment system and an asset.

Anyone who invested money in pyramid schemes in the name of Bitcoin is at the risk of losing their money.

[imamusma]

I agree with this assessment...victims of scams like Ponzi did not lose money because of Bitcoin because it is just used as the medium of exchange just like the dollar or any other currency for that matter. However, this association is quite understandable all because Bitcoin remains to be relatively young and people don't have the time to scrutinize the details.

Bitcoin is already 14 years old now, for me bitcoin is no longer relatively young to be known. In fact, you are very likely to find that most countries are familiar with bitcoin even if their governments don't want to adopt it as currency. It's just that some people lack experience in recognizing the characteristics of a ponzi scheme because of their ignorance. This is why ponzi schemes still work in some places.

Greed and the lure of high returns have led some victims to lose money, but it doesn't make much sense to me when they blame bitcoin as in the recent case regarding the mixer.

[Oneandpure]

Bitcoin is already 14 years old now, for me bitcoin is no longer relatively young to be known. In fact, you are very likely to find that most countries are familiar with bitcoin even if their governments don't want to adopt it as currency. It's just that some people lack experience in recognizing the characteristics of a ponzi scheme because of their ignorance. This is why ponzi schemes still work in some places.

Greed and the lure of high returns have led some victims to lose money, but it doesn't make much sense to me when they blame bitcoin as in the recent case regarding the mixer.

Many people still have mindset about Bitcoin and Ponzi are the same with promising profit returning, right now many Ponzi investment use Bitcoin as their label name or payment currencies trough Bitcoin how to make many people interested after looking on Bitcoin advertising but their working investment system is Ponzi.

Every month in my country have new cases with Ponzi investment, I don't know how many people still stupid dur our government every day publishing about criteria or Ponzi investment kinds. I think some member in Ponzi have excited how the leader promising with daily profit returning without need to work, sleep well will get earning well is the sweet word from leader in Ponzi investment.

[naira]

Now, this does not sound very important, but it actually are one of the most critical things that needs to be addressed. We should counter all of these misinformed people, with education on what Bitcoin is, because they lose money on Ponzi schemes and then they blame it on Bitcoin.

I agree, but if people are easily swayed by tricks like that it means they don't know the details of how bitcoin works. I mean he has bitcoin at least before owning it already knows the risks because various kinds of fraudulent information as much as possible need to be avoided and find out the truth.

back to us, if we may still be able to reach the people closest to us and we can still advise them to be careful with this fraud that is often found. But if we remind you with a wider reach, we also have to have a wider influence, for example as influencers etc.

[milewilda]

Now, this does not sound very important, but it actually are one of the most critical things that needs to be addressed. We should counter all of these misinformed people, with education on what Bitcoin is, because they lose money on Ponzi schemes and then they blame it on Bitcoin.

I agree, but if people are easily swayed by tricks like that it means they don't know the details of how bitcoin works. I mean he has bitcoin at least before owning it already knows the risks because various kinds of fraudulent information as much as possible need to be avoided and find out the truth.

back to us, if we may still be able to reach the people closest to us and we can still advise them to be careful with this fraud that is often found. But if we remind you with a wider reach, we also have to have a wider influence, for example as influencers etc.

But we know that there are a few of them who do really suggest out these ponzi schemes rather than on giving out some caution or alert to people on which it do ends up on a disaster for those people who did really decide to follow them up. Bitcoin do really get that kind of impression on which it did been considered as a ponzi scheme because people do get involved into those things which Bitcoin is the primary
payment and when that time comes where the funds had been scammed or ran away then those newbies would really be having thoughts that bitcoin is a scam.
In overall they dont really just know on whats Bitcoins in the first place and whats ponzi, there's really a difference.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

This sort of ponzi scheme is mostly what's causing some people to have misconceptions about Bitcoin. I am glad you made the correction, OP. I appreciate that. When I first bought Bitcoin and showed my friend the bitcoin in my wallet, he somehow felt discouraged and asked me why I wasted my money on such a scam thing, but I had to explain to him that Bitcoin is not a scam, and he was like, "Where can I sell the bitcoin?" All those silly questions were because he felt there was nothing like Bitcoin and no market for it. I just feel it is always right for those of us who are at least informed about the reality of Bitcoin to correct people who have misconceptions about it whenever we encounter such people.

[samcoin]

Now, this does not sound very important, but it actually are one of the most critical things that needs to be addressed. We should counter all of these misinformed people, with education on what Bitcoin is, because they lose money on Ponzi schemes and then they blame it on Bitcoin.

Bitcoin shouldn't be blamed in such cases, because even the dollar can be used in a ponzi scheme. Maybe the level of anonymity Bitcoin offers makes it attractive for scammers and ponzi scheme operators. However, I think Bitcoin will be more controllable in the future in terms of transaction senders/receivers, whereas we can see that the mixers are targeted by many governments, and the US recently asked all exchanges that operate on their land to share their information of all crypto currencies transactions with the government. I see this case as helpful in tracking all types of scams, including ponzi schemes, yet it could harm the privacy of users. However, Bitcoin will always suffer from the criminal activities it's used in as a means of payment, so it needs global recognition and regulation in order to have a unified law to track scammers.

[BADecker]

Of course people are confused. They're confused ever since government told them that Network Marketing is a pyramid scheme, just like they are saying that Bitcoin is a Ponzi.

When they fall into the collapse of government because they couldn't figure out how to think for themselves, it will be too late for them.

Time for those of us who understand, to combine Bitcoin with Network Marketing, to help some of the people survive, with us at the top.

[romero121]

This sort of ponzi scheme is mostly what's causing some people to have misconceptions about Bitcoin. I am glad you made the correction, OP. I appreciate that. When I first bought Bitcoin and showed my friend the bitcoin in my wallet, he somehow felt discouraged and asked me why I wasted my money on such a scam thing, but I had to explain to him that Bitcoin is not a scam, and he was like, "Where can I sell the bitcoin?" All those silly questions were because he felt there was nothing like Bitcoin and no market for it. I just feel it is always right for those of us who are at least informed about the reality of Bitcoin to correct people who have misconceptions about it whenever we encounter such people.

Well, OP have done a great work. Not everyone does it. Bitcoin at the beginning days were much used on gambling and for illegal transactions. This itself a negative discussion on bitcoin. Later the same bitcoin have grown good and had been used for investment, transaction, trading needs. People should understand the difference between the ponzi schemes and real potential of bitcoin compared to other cryptocurrencies available for usage.

[BADecker]

This sort of ponzi scheme is mostly what's causing some people to have misconceptions about Bitcoin. I am glad you made the correction, OP. I appreciate that. When I first bought Bitcoin and showed my friend the bitcoin in my wallet, he somehow felt discouraged and asked me why I wasted my money on such a scam thing, but I had to explain to him that Bitcoin is not a scam, and he was like, "Where can I sell the bitcoin?" All those silly questions were because he felt there was nothing like Bitcoin and no market for it. I just feel it is always right for those of us who are at least informed about the reality of Bitcoin to correct people who have misconceptions about it whenever we encounter such people.

Well, OP have done a great work. Not everyone does it. Bitcoin at the beginning days were much used on gambling and for illegal transactions. This itself a negative discussion on bitcoin. Later the same bitcoin have grown good and had been used for investment, transaction, trading needs. People should understand the difference between the ponzi schemes and real potential of bitcoin compared to other cryptocurrencies available for usage.

The greatest advantage in using Bitcoin for illegal transactions is, to show that somebody else said that it was illegal, not you.

If you have an agreement with government or somebody else that a certain kind of transaction is illegal, then it is for you, because you agreed to it.

In the USA, the 9th Amendment (in the Bill of rights) says, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." This means that we are not simply limited to the rights that are listed in the Constitution. See https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/ninth_amendment and https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-9/ninth-amendment-current-doctrine.

File a statement with government that a particular right you are using is a right for you, even though they say it is illegal. Base your use of it on the fact that the 9th Amendment is their restriction, to keep them from messing with you for doing what is legal in your eyes.

The only things that you must do are, don't harm anybody, or damage his property, or threaten him, even accidentally. If it is something illegal in a big way, figure out ahead of time how to successfully stand against them in court.

[DapanasFruit]

Bitcoin is already 14 years old now, for me bitcoin is no longer relatively young to be known. In fact, you are very likely to find that most countries are familiar with bitcoin even if their governments don't want to adopt it as currency. It's just that some people lack experience in recognizing the characteristics of a ponzi scheme because of their ignorance. This is why ponzi schemes still work in some places.

Greed and the lure of high returns have led some victims to lose money, but it doesn't make much sense to me when they blame bitcoin as in the recent case regarding the mixer.

Compared to the many currencies used by many countries, Bitcoin can still be considered as relatively young as some of them can be existing for hundreds of years. And if you don't mind, when you were just 14 years old am sure people still look at you at that time as a young boy, right? Even a man at 20 can still be considered as a young man. We can also google on how old is the USA dollar. Surely 14 years is a short period in history even in the world of finance and money especially if we are going to talk on financial institutions.

[Farma]

Well, OP have done a great work. Not everyone does it. Bitcoin at the beginning days were much used on gambling and for illegal transactions. This itself a negative discussion on bitcoin. Later the same bitcoin have grown good and had been used for investment, transaction, trading needs. People should understand the difference between the ponzi schemes and real potential of bitcoin compared to other cryptocurrencies available for usage.

Yes you're right. The OP actually did a pretty good job of justifying their statement and giving them an education. it's quite funny when a place goes bankrupt or is a scam, then highlights its payment alternative as the source of the scam. however, they need to learn more to provide accurate information to the public because it could negatively affect their own shows. I think a lot of people would realize that if they understood crypto, and they would embarrass themselves.

[hannahB4]

Apart from making a payment with bitcoin for the Ponzi scheme, some people have the mentality that bitcoin itself is a Ponzi scheme, they believed once you are dealing with it online it doesn't differ from it I laughed sometimes hearing something about this, and I do correct the notion about it to give more clarity to them