Mixer lobby! Why are you still here?

[Excimer]

Mixer lobby! Why are you still here?

I tried to have a constructive conversation with them and tell them that mixers will never come back. But they don't listen to anyone and don't even try to build an adequate dialogue. They just push their position and probe Teimos's condition.

Ban of mixers is a complex structural decision at the departmental level that does not depend on the presidential administration.
Law enforcement agencies punish all criminals equally, regardless of who is in power, Democrats or Republicans. And mixers are exactly a crime

And no Trump will help them. But for some reason they naively believe that Trump will bring back mixers. It's so naive. Mixers are a crime.



This is it's topic
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5525515.0

[Excimer]

I think mixers are bad. And admin did the right thing by banning mixers.

The mixer market is criminals doing bad things and justifying mixers with privacy.

Like privacy - use Monero, not mixers

[Excimer]

Mixer lobby! Why are you still here?

Yes I am an OP of this thread.

What do you want? Who are you hiding from?

There is no need to hide. Everything must be discussed transparently and openly.

I tried to communicate in your topic but I still haven't heard a single clear reason for returning your mixers.

I'm not afraid to discuss acute problems. And I'm not hiding from anyone. Come out, cowards, to the battle.

Don Pedro? uchegod? I am waiting for you for fair battle. Come here if you are a real men

[Excimer]

To Mixer Lobbyists.
This is an official answer from theymos

For the mixer policy to be reversed, the legal environment would have to improve a lot. I think that one of these would have to happen:
 - Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

It'll take at least a year before we have a good idea of what the new administration will really be like, but my expectation is that they will only be ~10% better than the Biden administration in this area. I would be surprised if they dropped the case against the Tornado Cash devs, for example.

The Trump administration could be a lot better than I expect, but they could also be a lot worse. I think for example that the Trump administration might be even more aggressive on sanctions (especially against Iran), and they might therefore see financial privacy as a threat to their sanction power. There are also several reasons why the Trump administration may want to restrict cross-border payments generally: to allow for financial repression in response to a debt crisis, to improve the US's hugely-negative net international investment position (which is often a major issue in the minds of Trump-aligned economists), to tariff services in addition to goods, or to control the value of the dollar. Severe restrictions on cross-border payments could also put them in opposition to financial privacy.

The Biden administration clearly wanted to move as close to banning crypto as they could get away with, so it's definitely good that they're gone, but it's not as if Satoshi has just been elected president. The Trump administration has some interest in pleasing their crypto donors, but that can be achieved mainly just by getting prices to go up. They don't much care, and don't have to care, about privacy, disintermediation, decentralization, etc.

From the message it is clear that admin is not against mixers. But he respects the law. And the law currently prohibits mixers.
Admin also hopes for a softening of the policy regarding cryptocurrencies. But he believes that Trump promised to support cryptocurrencies only in pursuit of ratings. It's likely a tightening of the policy and increased capture of those involved in mixers are expected

[Excimer]

HOT UPDATE

Trump didn't mention bitcoin or cryptocurrencies in his speech. Trump and Melania tokens are dropped. The market responded by falling. Don Pedro? uchegod? Are you still think that these shame mixers will be allowed?

However, in regards to the question O.P asked, I will sincerely suggest that it's still very early for the forum to deliberate on the ban review of Mixer, because infact Trump is not even sworn in as president yet. So let's just allow him to be sworn in first, and then check out how his policies regarding Bitcoin will be

So which of us is right now?

Why are you been so authoritative if I may ask?

Don't confuse being right with some other concepts. You just tried to mix something extra into my rightness and screwed up.

Mixers are part and parcel of bitcoin. Without bitcoin, there will be nothing like bitcoin mixers.

LOL. Watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFvLorAL5-8
Not a single word was said about Bitcoin by Trump

LOL, I thankGod you are not theymos.

thankGod mixers will be not allowed. Now it's final and irrevocable

You do not speak for the forum, and you appear to be the only anti-privacy advocate here.

I'm a Monero supporter. You're just another one who's shown his stupidity.


It seems that these mixer-lobbyists they don't even intend to close their topic, even despite the final answer of theimos.

Well, that settles it. The OP got his answer  

For the mixer policy to be reversed, the legal environment would have to improve a lot. I think that one of these would have to happen:
 - Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

Exactly

Well, that settles it. The OP got his answer  

Case, dismissed!

OP, you may want to lock this thread.

Agree

[Excimer]

theymos, thread "Second chance for mixers?" should be locked



Thread "Second chance for mixers?" is a nonsensical flood. OP got all the answers at 13 january 2025.

Trump's inauguration is long gone. Trump signed many decrees. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies were not listed anywhere among them. I don't see any concessions for cryptocurrencies, and even more so for some dodgy mixers


It would be better to ban the word "mixer" here altogether to improve the health of the forum.

[BenCodie]

theymos, thread "Second chance for mixers?" should be locked



Thread "Second chance for mixers?" is a nonsensical flood. OP got all the answers at 13 january 2025.

Trump's inauguration is long gone. Trump signed many decrees. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies were not listed anywhere among them. I don't see any concessions for cryptocurrencies, and even more so for some dodgy mixers


It would be better to ban the word "mixer" here altogether to improve the health of the forum.

I'd hold onto your horses for now:

This just came in:

Texas District Court reverses Tornado Cash sanctions: https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-texas-court-reverses-tornado-cash-sanctions-crypto-privacy-win

This could be precedent/catalyst for a relaxed policy on privacy-preserving services like mixers. However, I just hope that my response to the meta thread is considered if the forum re-allows them...

If this forum does allow mixers again then a problem needs to be addressed:

How do we stop mixers coming to the forum, running large budget signature campaigns and running off with the loot when the reserve becomes large enough?

I don't think the forum should allow mixers until there is some form of policy on how these mixers work. We need decentralized solutions, not centralized ones, if the forum wants to succeed with mixers and if users are to be safe. Bitcoin has evolved a lot since the ban, creating decentralized mixers can work, so I would hope that the community rally together to build a decentralized framework in comparison to relying on anonymous individuals who abuse the forum and its people.

...as I believe the bigger problem is the scamming, and the nefarious activities that mixers conduct outside of any irresponsible usage from some of their "less legitimate" users.

[FinneysTrueVision]

I'd hold onto your horses for now:

This just came in:

Texas District Court reverses Tornado Cash sanctions: https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-texas-court-reverses-tornado-cash-sanctions-crypto-privacy-win

This could be precedent/catalyst for a relaxed policy on privacy-preserving services like mixers. However, I just hope that my response to the meta thread is considered if the forum re-allows them...

...as I believe the bigger problem is the scamming, and the nefarious activities that mixers conduct outside of any irresponsible usage from some of their "less legitimate" users.

Tornado Cash is decentralized so it is quite different from custodial mixers. A protocol and its developers should not be held responsible for how people use their code. It was clear that OFAC overstepped its authority. I don’t really have much hope that the government will become friendlier towards privacy.
 
If mixers became more decentralized and had less risk of scamming there would not be a problem with allowing them on the forum. Ginger Wallet is currently running a signature campaign and Wasabi Wallet was also allowed to run a campaign after the mixer ban.

[DiMarxist]

Most of the users in the forum don't really know the drama behind the ban of mixer and the only thing they know is mixers were used for money laundry and for that it is a crime and it was ban here and others. But I think it is not only that part of the story that brought down the banning of the mixers. And we don't know how the structura arrangement between the Law Enforcement Agencies and The President. If the Executive Order was used to pardon some criminal elements in US by the newly elected and sworn in President (Donald Trump) then, the Order can also be used to bring back mixers to the crypto world.
And if mixers are still active in the Altcointalks Forum then it is not banned entirely in the crypto community but only in the bitcointalk forum and it community. So people can still use it legally in the other forum (s).

[BenCodie]

I'd hold onto your horses for now:

This just came in:

Texas District Court reverses Tornado Cash sanctions: https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-texas-court-reverses-tornado-cash-sanctions-crypto-privacy-win

This could be precedent/catalyst for a relaxed policy on privacy-preserving services like mixers. However, I just hope that my response to the meta thread is considered if the forum re-allows them...

...as I believe the bigger problem is the scamming, and the nefarious activities that mixers conduct outside of any irresponsible usage from some of their "less legitimate" users.

Tornado Cash is decentralized so it is quite different from custodial mixers. A protocol and its developers should not be held responsible for how people use their code. It was clear that OFAC overstepped its authority. I don’t really have much hope that the government will become friendlier towards privacy.
 
If mixers became more decentralized and had less risk of scamming there would not be a problem with allowing them on the forum. Ginger Wallet is currently running a signature campaign and Wasabi Wallet was also allowed to run a campaign after the mixer ban.

Yes, though I do think that the ruling creates rightful grounds for bitcointalk to keep custodial mixers banned while allowing non-custodial mixers (like Tornado) to be discussed and built within the community...as now that even government differentiates the two, why should decentralized technology be banned from this forum and treated the same way as a custodial/centralized technology? The reason I told Excimer to hold their horses is because theymos may eventually see that logic (or, for whatever reason, re-enable mixers due to a perceived relaxation on both centralized/decentralized mixers, I personally hope this isn't the case though as I believe custodial mixers do more harm than good).

[tainted_love]

I think mixers are bad. And admin did the right thing by banning mixers.

No one gives a shit what FEDs think.

The mixer market is criminals doing bad things and justifying mixers with privacy.

According the governments trying to regulate them?  Those same governments operated by the biggest drug traffickers and human traffickers, and pedophiles the world has known?  And you trust their claims?  They are just trying to squash their competition, and prevent resistance organizations from obfuscating their funding.  Use your brain.

Like privacy - use Monero, not mixers

That's the only common sense thing you've said in this whole thread.  Decentralized privacy coins are the only way to truly make yourself anonymous.  Using any centralized mixer is a risk, as you never know who's running them, what data they're collecting, and what they do with their logs.

[Excimer]

Another mixer lobbyist detected

nickname: Outhue
profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3442794

I hope this doesn't get me in trouble, I am just curious about this is all, now that Trump is taking over as the first crypto president today and the SEC chairman is out of the picture don't you think allowing mixers back on the forum is not a bad idea now?

Before you scold me for bringing this up, a popular privacy coin was scrutiny-free some days back making it surge in value, now privacy projects can finally breath free.

I hope to get a feed back on this.

[Excimer]

It was trashcanned. It looks like a covert advert to me. The image in the op links to their Announcement on altcointalk. I've asked an admin to review it but I don't think it should be here as per the current rules on mixers but theymos ill have to ultimately decide.

Given that the whole thing is on the altcoinstaks forum mater, it's a little unclear why the contract was posted on this forum, also in the service section.

Probably a sneaky way to try advertise it here  .

Please let me know who tried to advertise mixers here. Tell me this nickname.

Mixer advertising is prohibited by the rules. I want to report about that violator to admin.