Russia and others, move to use Yuan instead of dollar.

[pooya87]

Maybe just coincidence but ever since France made some trades with China using Yuan instead of dollar the country has been burning in a wave of protests, riots and unrest. As we speak the armed French forces with armored vehicles are in the streets of France suppressing people protesting police brutality with nearly 1000 people arrested and hundreds of police forces wounded (no solid civilian casualties reported). The curfew, strict restrictions on social media and the heavy censorship of the mainstream media prevents further details from coming out.

Granted for the past ~5 years there has been large protests in France (mostly Yellow Vests) but things got worse from the day Macron got closer to China, specially after his visit and his speech where he declared that France has to become more independent from US

[DrBeer]

I am worried about one factor. One of the advantages with the US Dollar is that it is more or less immune from market meltdowns. Because if there is a recession in the United States, then the markets around the world will get impacted. If the USD gets weak, then other fiat currencies will also go down. That is not the case with Chinese Yuan. If there is a localized market meltdown in China/Hong Kong, it will not have any impact in other markets. If the CNY goes down against the US Dollar, then those countries that have Yuan in reserves will see their net worth getting reduced.

Dear Sithara007 ! You are making amazing discoveries !
It is true that the world came to this long ago, and that is why it chose the dollar as the currency of international settlements!
Once again I repeat: you can not take any piece of paper (rouble, yuan, real, rupee, peseti, ....) and make it international currency!
To do this a currency must have a large set of characteristics !
I will just start to list them:
- world weight
- economy
- political weight
- army
- technologies
- ....

And the problem is that all of these characteristics correspond ONLY to the U.S. DOLLAR ! Imagine - we're back to what I've been writing about for a long time - just "wanting" and replacing the dollar is NOTHING. There is no substitute for it yet ! And even the EURO - does not have such a set of characteristics!
And now you understand that those who squeal "we're changing from the dollar to something else" are either idiots, or want to set someone up, or, as China does - to deceive their not smart "friends" and sell them their own "shitcoincurrency"

[speeder]

I don't think using the yuan instead of the dollar will be as successful. Among other countries, China has temporarily influenced some countries in this regard. China is one of the most commercially successful countries in the world. China is trying to use the yuan to take over the economy. I have heard that some countries have started using the yuan commercially. However, not all countries seem to accept the use of the yuan. The use of the yuan is a political issue. If the political environment eases, the dollar will hold its own value again

[iv4n]

I don't think using the yuan instead of the dollar will be as successful. Among other countries, China has temporarily influenced some countries in this regard. China is one of the most commercially successful countries in the world. China is trying to use the yuan to take over the economy. I have heard that some countries have started using the yuan commercially. However, not all countries seem to accept the use of the yuan. The use of the yuan is a political issue. If the political environment eases, the dollar will hold its own value again

In the end, Dollars, Rubles, Euros, Yuans, and all other fiat currencies are almost the same. Replace one shit with another... I don't think it will work fine, at least not for most of us ordinary people. I think we can do better...

The big picture is clear... fiat currencies are made by people who did some horrible things in the past, and they are still doing so many bad things around, why would we still trust them? The fortune of some big countries and players is made on blood. Simple as that...

It's why I like crypto, I think it's the chance that the world needs for a better future.

[Smartprofit]

I don't think using the yuan instead of the dollar will be as successful. Among other countries, China has temporarily influenced some countries in this regard. China is one of the most commercially successful countries in the world. China is trying to use the yuan to take over the economy. I have heard that some countries have started using the yuan commercially. However, not all countries seem to accept the use of the yuan. The use of the yuan is a political issue. If the political environment eases, the dollar will hold its own value again

The Chinese Yuan is a very poor store of value.  This is because China is a country that mainly exports goods abroad. 

Chinese companies are not interested in strengthening the Chinese yuan.  This will lead to an increase in the cost of goods and make the export product uncompetitive. 

However, the Chinese yuan can be used in cross-border transactions, as many useful Chinese goods can be bought with this currency. 

This is the difference between the Chinese yuan and other regional currencies (for example, the Indian rupee).

[DrBeer]

I don't think using the yuan instead of the dollar will be as successful. Among other countries, China has temporarily influenced some countries in this regard. China is one of the most commercially successful countries in the world. China is trying to use the yuan to take over the economy. I have heard that some countries have started using the yuan commercially. However, not all countries seem to accept the use of the yuan. The use of the yuan is a political issue. If the political environment eases, the dollar will hold its own value again

The Chinese Yuan is a very poor store of value.  This is because China is a country that mainly exports goods abroad.  

Chinese companies are not interested in strengthening the Chinese yuan.  This will lead to an increase in the cost of goods and make the export product uncompetitive.  

However, the Chinese yuan can be used in cross-border transactions, as many useful Chinese goods can be bought with this currency.  

This is the difference between the Chinese yuan and other regional currencies (for example, the Indian rupee).

Yes, it is convenient to buy Chinese goods from China, saving only the Chinese economy... I.e. we get - what they are trying to accuse the U.S. - allegedly the dominance of the dollar and the work of the dollar only on the U.S. economy
True, the U.S. dollar allows you to buy ANY goods, any country, anywhere you choose. And that's a huge difference. By the way, that's exactly what China is aiming for - the yuanization of its partners, who are not the smartest. India has also succeeded in this business, and is also playing a fun game with Russia Now when Russia sells oil for rupees it does not understand where a significant portion of funds went, why there is a catastrophic shortage of dollars, and what to do with the rupees it has!   As it turned out - India does not sell all of its goods to Russia for its rupees! What a beauty, right? The most demanded and competitive ones are welcome ... for dollars or euros

[Sithara007]

✂✂✂
India has also succeeded in this business, and is also playing a fun game with Russia Now when Russia sells oil for rupees it does not understand where a significant portion of funds went, why there is a catastrophic shortage of dollars, and what to do with the rupees it has!   As it turned out - India does not sell all of its goods to Russia for its rupees! What a beauty, right? The most demanded and competitive ones are welcome ... for dollars or euros

The usage of Rupee in international trade between India and Russia was discontinued sometime back. Now the majority of the trade is being conducted using the US Dollar, and a part of the trade is being done using the AED (United Arab Emirates Dirham). And this month, some of the Indian refineries have purchased a few Russian crude oil cargoes using CNY (Chinese Yuan). Details can be found here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-03/india-state-refiners-consider-paying-in-yuan-for-russian-crude

BPCL and HPCL want to continue with their payments in USD/AED, but the emergence of new sanctions have made this much harder now. Obviously CNY is an attractive option, but the government is not that excited.

[pooya87]

If bloomberg is to be believed, that still doesn't change anything about the main subject here which is "dedollarisation". There may be some conflicts of interests between countries about what currency to use but they still are not going back to dollar. As the article also claims that the Indian refineries are using Yuan and Derham (not dollar) to purchase Russian oil.

[Pierre 2]

I still feel like people are exaggerating dedollarisation process. Well yeah people are using dollar like %5-10 less but what do they use instead? Euros. Pounds. etc. Yuan can't be competitive against Dollar in near future period. United States is still owning financial markets literally. It can create nearly unlimited debt. People care about currencies that will not constantly experience devaluations, USD is still the best one along with Swiss Franc in that topic in my opinion. Ask Russians if they prefer ruble to usd honestly. Most will not.

[Wimex]

This year there has been a situation of tension with the US dollar, the debt controversy that it faces together with events such as the bankruptcy of recognized banking centers, has called into question whether even the currency of this country is solid enough to to continue using it as a global investment, it is due to these events that a controversy began to seek other fiat currency alternatives that can step on the heels of the dollar and be just as effective in terms of stability against inflation, the result of this was directed towards China's yuan as a possible replacement, and seeing the union of certain countries to make payment in this asset instead of using the one that for many years has led the market, causes tension and instability between nations…. Because let's be clear, what happens to the dollar affects all those regions that still use it, generating a chain of instability in a general way.

These three world powers, China, Russia and the United States, have always competed to keep the throne and be the most powerful in all senses...... the union of two great pillars can defeat and underestimate the power that their rival has had for so long common…..that is why I consider that this action between russia and china is a possible strategy to destabilize the united states and to athose who support this country.

[DrBeer]

✂✂✂
India has also succeeded in this business, and is also playing a fun game with Russia Now when Russia sells oil for rupees it does not understand where a significant portion of funds went, why there is a catastrophic shortage of dollars, and what to do with the rupees it has!   As it turned out - India does not sell all of its goods to Russia for its rupees! What a beauty, right? The most demanded and competitive ones are welcome ... for dollars or euros

The usage of Rupee in international trade between India and Russia was discontinued sometime back. Now the majority of the trade is being conducted using the US Dollar, and a part of the trade is being done using the AED (United Arab Emirates Dirham). And this month, some of the Indian refineries have purchased a few Russian crude oil cargoes using CNY (Chinese Yuan). Details can be found here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-03/india-state-refiners-consider-paying-in-yuan-for-russian-crude

BPCL and HPCL want to continue with their payments in USD/AED, but the emergence of new sanctions have made this much harder now. Obviously CNY is an attractive option, but the government is not that excited.

Oh dear Sithara007 , what went wrong?! ))
After all, everything was so good, without the dollar, very profitable, in "strong and secure rubles, yuan and rupees" ! What "broke"?
 And as always, why are you silent about the real picture ? About the blocking of Russian funds by India, about the ban on the exchange of rupees for dollars, which Russia was asking for so much!  About the restrictive measures to sell many groups of goods for rupees in russia ? Why are you silent about these "little nuances"? The fact that India bought oil from russia for yuan speaks of many negative factors for both India and russia ! By the way - can you tell me what for yuan russia can buy in china ? Maybe servers ? Or equipment for 5G networks , or maybe industrial equipment ? Most likely... nails and cheap cell phones Because for the rest China demands... DOLLARS ! Surprising, right ?!

[Uruhara]

I still feel like people are exaggerating dedollarisation process. Well yeah people are using dollar like %5-10 less but what do they use instead? Euros. Pounds. etc. Yuan can't be competitive against Dollar in near future period. United States is still owning financial markets literally. It can create nearly unlimited debt. People care about currencies that will not constantly experience devaluations, USD is still the best one along with Swiss Franc in that topic in my opinion. Ask Russians if they prefer ruble to usd honestly. Most will not.

The process of dedollarization does require a long process. and I also agree that it's not going to happen anytime soon. Because the dominance of the dollar has been very strongly attached to the global economic order and in current global transactions. In fact, several countries also use the US Dollar as currency because they no longer have their own country's currency due to extreme inflation in the past. but in the future I think de-dollarization will really materialize if the US is negligent and does not strengthen its position in the eyes of the world.

[Sayeds56]

What does this new development make for the US economy and the US dollar in the coming days and years to come.[/b]
Give your personal opinion on this development!

I think the primary reason for Russia to consider accepting Chinese currency Yuan for international transactions of its oil sales, is to bypass US financial system and reduce its vulnerability to Economic sanction imposed following the Ukraine war. It can provide an alternative avenue for conducting business and lessen the impact of sanctions. Secondly, it can help Russia to diversify its foreign exchange reserves which are currently heavily weighted towards US dollar and Euro. By doing so Russia can mitigate the impact of fluctuations of these currencies on its economy.

[Sithara007]

Oh dear Sithara007 , what went wrong?! ))
After all, everything was so good, without the dollar, very profitable, in "strong and secure rubles, yuan and rupees" ! What "broke"?
 And as always, why are you silent about the real picture ? About the blocking of Russian funds by India, about the ban on the exchange of rupees for dollars, which Russia was asking for so much!  About the restrictive measures to sell many groups of goods for rupees in russia ? Why are you silent about these "little nuances"? The fact that India bought oil from russia for yuan speaks of many negative factors for both India and russia ! By the way - can you tell me what for yuan russia can buy in china ? Maybe servers ? Or equipment for 5G networks , or maybe industrial equipment ? Most likely... nails and cheap cell phones Because for the rest China demands... DOLLARS ! Surprising, right ?!

Well.. it is unfortunate that the Indian government hasn't made the INR fully convertible. As a result, the Russians don't want to trade using this currency. It benefits no one, as the traders are being forced to use currencies such as Chinese Yuan, United Arab Emirates Dirham and Swiss Franc along with the US Dollar. The fact that the Russian traders prefer CNY (despite strong resistance by Indians) prove that they don't have any issues in accepting this currency. And from what I have heard, they are preferring CNY instead of US Dollar.

[DrBeer]

Oh dear Sithara007 , what went wrong?! ))
After all, everything was so good, without the dollar, very profitable, in "strong and secure rubles, yuan and rupees" ! What "broke"?
 And as always, why are you silent about the real picture ? About the blocking of Russian funds by India, about the ban on the exchange of rupees for dollars, which Russia was asking for so much!  About the restrictive measures to sell many groups of goods for rupees in russia ? Why are you silent about these "little nuances"? The fact that India bought oil from russia for yuan speaks of many negative factors for both India and russia ! By the way - can you tell me what for yuan russia can buy in china ? Maybe servers ? Or equipment for 5G networks , or maybe industrial equipment ? Most likely... nails and cheap cell phones Because for the rest China demands... DOLLARS ! Surprising, right ?!

Well.. it is unfortunate that the Indian government hasn't made the INR fully convertible. As a result, the Russians don't want to trade using this currency. It benefits no one, as the traders are being forced to use currencies such as Chinese Yuan, United Arab Emirates Dirham and Swiss Franc along with the US Dollar. The fact that the Russian traders prefer CNY (despite strong resistance by Indians) prove that they don't have any issues in accepting this currency. And from what I have heard, they are preferring CNY instead of US Dollar.

Sithara007 you are a smart man, it is pleasant to communicate with you! That's right - local currencies for international settlements turn out to be inconvenient and limited in application. And that is why the world uses the convenient U.S. DOLLAR. Not the rupee, not the yuan, but the DOLLAR ! Because it is the only currency with which it is EASY to buy everything the world economy produces. That's why trying to create the appearance of "dedolarization" is the way into this kind of inconvenience ! And you will soon realize that the yuanization of your "foolish" neighbors is not synonymous with dedolarization ! China is not abandoning the dollar, just like the terrorist country russia, they are critically dependent on international currency revenues, because they depend on the world market, not the other way around !

[Sithara007]

Sithara007 you are a smart man, it is pleasant to communicate with you! That's right - local currencies for international settlements turn out to be inconvenient and limited in application. And that is why the world uses the convenient U.S. DOLLAR. Not the rupee, not the yuan, but the DOLLAR ! Because it is the only currency with which it is EASY to buy everything the world economy produces. That's why trying to create the appearance of "dedolarization" is the way into this kind of inconvenience ! And you will soon realize that the yuanization of your "foolish" neighbors is not synonymous with dedolarization ! China is not abandoning the dollar, just like the terrorist country russia, they are critically dependent on international currency revenues, because they depend on the world market, not the other way around !

I don't think that the Russians are facing any issue in using Chinese Yuan, because CNY is easily convertible with other currencies and also China is the no.1 trade partner of Russia. And more importantly, unlike the case with Russia-India trade, the trade relation between Russia and China is more asymmetric with trade balance being almost equal. Russia imports a lot of stuff from China, including electronics, automobiles, textiles, medicines, chemicals, fruits and vegetables. And most of this trade has shifted to CNY.

[flyingcarpet]

What does this new development make for the US economy and the US dollar in the coming days and years to come.[/b]
Give your personal opinion on this development!

I think the primary reason for Russia to consider accepting Chinese currency Yuan for international transactions of its oil sales, is to bypass US financial system and reduce its vulnerability to Economic sanction imposed following the Ukraine war. It can provide an alternative avenue for conducting business and lessen the impact of sanctions. Secondly, it can help Russia to diversify its foreign exchange reserves which are currently heavily weighted towards US dollar and Euro. By doing so Russia can mitigate the impact of fluctuations of these currencies on its economy.

When a country is embargoed, it suffers economically. Since Russia is at war and embargoed, it has to protect its economy. There are various ways to do this. It is trying to take certain steps to reduce the influence of the dollar. Russia is trying to get closer to China to disable the US financial system. It's a logical move for Russia. At the same time, it is necessary to prevent the negative effects of dollar fluctuations in many countries. Wars are now fought over the economy.

[Sayeds56]

When a country is embargoed, it suffers economically. Since Russia is at war and embargoed, it has to protect its economy. There are various ways to do this. It is trying to take certain steps to reduce the influence of the dollar. Russia is trying to get closer to China to disable the US financial system. It's a logical move for Russia. At the same time, it is necessary to prevent the negative effects of dollar fluctuations in many countries. Wars are now fought over the economy.

The sanctions and embargoes can yield targeted outcomes in the short term, however their extensive use compels the affected entities to find alternatives and become more reliant on their local resources.
It is also important to note that characterizing wars as conflicts fought over economy is over simplification. While economic factors can play significant role in geopolitical conflicts, wars often involve complex dynamics, that includes political, ideological, territorial and historical factors. Economic factors alone don't fully capture the complexities of wars.

[DrBeer]

Sithara007 you are a smart man, it is pleasant to communicate with you! That's right - local currencies for international settlements turn out to be inconvenient and limited in application. And that is why the world uses the convenient U.S. DOLLAR. Not the rupee, not the yuan, but the DOLLAR ! Because it is the only currency with which it is EASY to buy everything the world economy produces. That's why trying to create the appearance of "dedolarization" is the way into this kind of inconvenience ! And you will soon realize that the yuanization of your "foolish" neighbors is not synonymous with dedolarization ! China is not abandoning the dollar, just like the terrorist country russia, they are critically dependent on international currency revenues, because they depend on the world market, not the other way around !

I don't think that the Russians are facing any issue in using Chinese Yuan, because CNY is easily convertible with other currencies and also China is the no.1 trade partner of Russia. And more importantly, unlike the case with Russia-India trade, the trade relation between Russia and China is more asymmetric with trade balance being almost equal. Russia imports a lot of stuff from China, including electronics, automobiles, textiles, medicines, chemicals, fruits and vegetables. And most of this trade has shifted to CNY.

Here I support you, assess you as very smart, and then you are such a bah, and with all my might prove that you are not!

Well, let's take the long way. A simple question - you ask yourself - what does China sell for Yuan to Russia? And try to answer it yourself by researching the subject area?

What you have listed - thank you for your work, everything is correct. But with a little clarification, which for some reason you "chronically dislike"

I will return for a second to my post, which you did not deny, and you silently accepted it, because you understand that it is true, and easily provable.

The post was about a terrorist country having a problem in trade relations with India. And the problem is that Russia, selling oil to India at a bargain price, not only doesn't get any of the money in supplies, but it can't use the money it gets as it wants. Let me make it clear again - India has banned the sale of many critically important and competitive goods to Russia for RUPIs. But it has allowed it to sell from... FOR DOLLARS

Do you think China is stupider than India? Shall I tell you what products from china come to russia in exchange for yuan ? Which Chinese products are sold to Russia only FOR DOLLARS? 
Or you'll pretend you don't know what I mean?

[Sithara007]

^^^ You assume that China has a deep love affair with US Dollar. Then why they are offloading a part of their reserves in US treasury bonds? Why they have given their approval for the common BRICS currency, which as CNY having the highest weightage? China is trying to move away from USD and there is no confusion related to this. But they are intelligent enough to understand that doing so takes a lot of time and it can't be done in a fortnight. And also, even for trade using CNY/RUR, values are first calculated in USD and then converted to the other currency.