Bitcoin price is down again. WHY ?

[crocko]

Hello !

The Bitcoin price fall again and drag with him all the coins .
Any explanation ?

The price here://preev.com/

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[1714971529]

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[JoelKatz]

Blah blah blah supply blah blah blah demand blah blah blah.

[crocko]

Blah blah blah supply blah blah blah demand blah blah blah.

By supply you mean the Mt Gox stolen BTC which are flooding the market ?

[sgk]

Hello !

The Bitcoin price fall again and drag with him all the coins .
Any explanation ?

The price here://preev.com/

A lot of explanation on the forum. It's really flooding with this discussion. Some reporter in China published article about China penalizing banks that deal with BTC. Many people called it a rumor but the reporter stands by his story.

[herebittybittybitty]

People getting scared, selling, causing prices to fall, causing more people to get scared and sell, etc. etc.

If people really thought Bitcoin was going to be embraced by governments, they are in for quite a few more rude awakenings. The value of Bitcoin lies in its ability to function despite government disapproval.

[smoothie]

Blah blah blah supply blah blah blah demand blah blah blah.

You forgot...


"blah blah blah speculation blah blah blah..."

[Swordsoffreedom]

Well since its mining speculation think we will see a declining difficulty if this keeps up for an extended duration or just a slower increase

[overcoin]

If people really thought Bitcoin was going to be embraced by governments, they are in for quite a few more rude awakenings. The value of Bitcoin lies in its ability to function despite government disapproval.

Absolutely. Very often people tend to forget that.

[cloverme]

The market in China is impacting the price: http://www.coindesk.com/price-bitcoin-remains-500-amid-china-uncertainty/

The irony is that bitcoin itself can't be regulated, but government decisions can impact bitcoin. I think bitcoin had a greater value as the currency of the underground more than the new businesses of late are trying to bring to bitcoin. No one wants to queue in front of an ATM to get a bitcoin.

[overcoin]

No one wants to queue in front of an ATM to get a bitcoin.

You mean no one wants to buy Bitcoin because the government is monitoring every purchase? Which country is that?

[sgk]

Mining difficulty is going up ~60% per month, not 20%.  Difficulty is changing ~20% every ~10-12 days on average.

And that has no bearing on the price.

I don't understand how much longer people can keep mining with their expensive hardware when it quickly becomes unprofitable this quick. A latest hardware would pay for itself in several months; but with difficulty rising at this speed and prices falling at this speed, how can one expect to be in the game??

[herebittybittybitty]

Mining difficulty is going up ~60% per month, not 20%.  Difficulty is changing ~20% every ~10-12 days on average.

And that has no bearing on the price.

I don't understand how much longer people can keep mining with their expensive hardware when it quickly becomes unprofitable this quick. A latest hardware would pay for itself in several months; but with difficulty rising at this speed and prices falling at this speed, how can one expect to be in the game??

The hardware cost is a sunk cost, and the machine will continue to mine for the owner (whether it's the original or someone who rebuys at a discount). At a certain point of course it won't even become worth the electricity price, and only the most efficient miners will remain -- if they can compete with people getting free power.

Look for college kids with 3 TH/s Cointerras in their dorms rooms in a couple years that someone handed them for free. :p

[xstr8guy]

Well since its mining speculation think we will see a declining difficulty if this keeps up for an extended duration or just a slower increase

Neither.  The preorder queue is still many months long.  And newer, faster, more efficient hardware is in the pipeline.  But eventually the difficulty will get so high that it will get be much more difficult to continue the 20% jumps in difficulty every 2 weeks.

[nwfella]

Well since its mining speculation think we will see a declining difficulty if this keeps up for an extended duration or just a slower increase

Neither.  The preorder queue is still many months long.  And newer, faster, more efficient hardware is in the pipeline.  But eventually the difficulty will get so high that it will get be much more difficult to continue the 20% jumps in difficulty every 2 weeks.

+1, we have been pretty much hovering between a 1.25-2.25% daily growth rate for the past several months.  This isn't likely to slow down for quite sometime imho.

*I suspect what we are going to start seeing is serious price drops from the major manufacturers price-points very soon(cough cough HashFast := 0).  ASIC manufacturers have been raping people on the preorders.  Anyhoo, profitability with mining at this point with anything >=65nm boards is basically wasting money unless they have free (or damn near) electricity at this point.

[xstr8guy]

Well since its mining speculation think we will see a declining difficulty if this keeps up for an extended duration or just a slower increase

Neither.  The preorder queue is still many months long.  And newer, faster, more efficient hardware is in the pipeline.  But eventually the difficulty will get so high that it will get be much more difficult to continue the 20% jumps in difficulty every 2 weeks.

+1, we have been pretty much hovering between a 1.25-2.25% daily growth rate for the past several months.  This isn't likely to slow down for quite sometime imho.

*I suspect what we are going to start seeing is serious price drops from the major manufacturers price-points very soon(cough cough HashFast := 0).  ASIC manufacturers have been raping people on the preorders.  Anyhoo, profitability with mining at this point with anything >=65nm boards is basically wasting money unless they have free (or damn near) electricity at this point.

Something fun to do with obsolete ASICs (Avalons, Blades, Singles, etc)... mine some SHA altcoins, "hodl" them until the next pump... dump... profit.

I recently made a few extra satoshis mining Maza rather than BTC with some old gear.  It isn't likely to make you rich but it can be very entertaining.

[testerx]

The price is dropping because the recent IRS ruling means that large miners that may have been holding are forced to dump their coins to pay huge tax liabilities. 

[herebittybittybitty]

The price is dropping because the recent IRS ruling means that large miners that may have been holding are forced to dump their coins to pay huge tax liabilities. 

How would the IRS even know? Did some of these people/entities register as businesses or something? Who the heck did that? 

[sergio]

Its due to the IRS ruling.
We have to say no to regulation. Regulation is bad.

First let me make clear that the ruling/law it is illegal, retroactive laws are not legal.

The law is a burden on everyone that deals with bitcoins in the USA.

Now under the law miners will have to track every time they get bitcoin and the corresponding market rate, the problem is that it creates a huge burden on miners trying to comply, not only a burden but the so called law it is impossible to comply with.

here is an example by the law is nonsense for a miner:
                         btc      btc dollar value
time 1   receive 0.3    100
time 2   receive  .4      200
time 3    .1                   500
time 4     .4                  400

so now you have 1.2 btc, in the wallet it is treated as 1.2 with inputs from many other smaller portions making the total 1.2

so lets say you spend 0.5 coins, now what is the dollar of the purchase of that .5 btc ? that is required by law.
in the wallet the protocol will make the payment and leave you with 0.7 btc but it will not determine the dollar value, in fact since most likely that 0.5 BTC will come a little from each each BTC  transaction for practical purposes you can not tract the purchase value of that .5 btc unless you go to the blockchain and see how much of each bitcoin was taken from each transaction.

Now lets say you have 1000 transactions in your wallet, good luck tracking down the purchase value in dollars.

That is a huge burden, so I am certain that absolutely no one will  be able to obey the rule of the so called law, it will creates a huge burden, smaller miners will ignore the law, and the large ones will be force to go to a bitcoin friendly country.

Vendors will have track purchases, and the current price of the dollar another burden.

buyers will not only lose their privacy, but will pay sales tax and property tax.

This last so called law is illegal, I personally hope that most bitcoiners challenge the law with the goal of making bitcoin free of illegal laws, and show politicians that bitcoiners stand together.

The good news is that the mining portion of the law is not enforceable,  so if you agree and believe the law is legal then try to comply, and I say try because I do not think it is possible to comply.

I personally have no clue which was my first dollar purchase in 2013, or the last one, so why should we be expected with bitcoin to keep track of what we do not keep track with dollars.

 

[sgk]

Its due to the IRS ruling.
We have to say no to regulation. Regulation is bad.

First let me make clear that the ruling/law it is illegal, retroactive laws are not legal.

The law is a burden on everyone that deals with bitcoins in the USA.

Now under the law miners will have to track every time they get bitcoin and the corresponding market rate, the problem is that it creates a huge burden on miners trying to comply, not only a burden but the so called law it is impossible to comply with.

here is an example by the law is nonsense for a miner:
                         btc      btc dollar value
time 1   receive 0.3    100
time 2   receive  .4      200
time 3    .1                   500
time 4     .4                  400

so now you have 1.2 btc, in the wallet it is treated as 1.2 with inputs from many other smaller portions making the total 1.2

so lets say you spend 0.5 coins, now what is the dollar of the purchase of that .5 btc ? that is required by law.
in the wallet the protocol will make the payment and leave you with 0.7 btc but it will not determine the dollar value, in fact since most likely that 0.5 BTC will come a little from each each BTC  transaction for practical purposes you can not tract the purchase value of that .5 btc unless you go to the blockchain and see how much of each bitcoin was taken from each transaction.

Now lets say you have 1000 transactions in your wallet, good luck tracking down the purchase value in dollars.

That is a huge burden, so I am certain that absolutely no one will  be able to obey the rule of the so called law, it will creates a huge burden, smaller miners will ignore the law, and the large ones will be force to go to a bitcoin friendly country.

Vendors will have track purchases, and the current price of the dollar another burden.

buyers will not only lose their privacy, but will pay sales tax and property tax.

This last so called law is illegal, I personally hope that most bitcoiners challenge the law with the goal of making bitcoin free of illegal laws, and show politicians that bitcoiners stand together.

The good news is that the mining portion of the law is not enforceable,  so if you agree and believe the law is legal then try to comply, and I say try because I do not think it is possible to comply.

I personally have no clue which was my first dollar purchase in 2013, or the last one, so why should we be expected with bitcoin to keep track of what we do not keep track with dollars.

Isn't ZGW (Zero Gain Wallet) a solution to this issue? ZGW is the first one and maybe there will be many more to come to overcome this 'calculation' issue. Let us not allow government to force such a mundane problem to the solution.

[ajareselde]

Blah blah blah supply blah blah blah demand blah blah blah.

this. and weak hands got scared.. got scared again





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[STT]

The value of Bitcoin lies in its ability to function despite government disapproval.

Unfortunately yes.   Inflation is a form of tax that takes from income and your personal belongings, you cant avoid it and not expect a problem as it deprives gov of their needed funding.  Personally I think gov should spend less but its just inevitable there will be a clash.

Also I agree this 'law' is incorrect and unworkable, it criminalises the population of users which can be said to be no problem so long as they stay a minority but it runs contrary to what most expect USA to represent.

Both China and USA are united on this as they both control personal capital of their population.  The story on business could well be true, I think china has drawn the line in only allowing personal transaction.   That is feasible in an exchange way and I guess helps to throttle large capital outflows

[MarketNeutral]

Blah blah blah supply blah blah blah demand blah blah blah.

best explanation ever. lol.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Because google trends says so
Weirdly it reminds me of the price chart 
http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=bitcoin#q=bitcoin&cmpt=