Reversible computing is the future. You need to know about this.

[jvanname]

In the future, all computers will be reversible. Reversible computation will be many times more energy efficient and computationally powerful than any possible irreversible computation. Reversible computation is the future.

Unfortunately, reversible computing has been mostly ignored by the media and academia. Hardware manufacturers are not proactively researching reversible computation, and few people are working on reversible programming languages and software. Reversible computation is not very popular because unlike 'artificial intelligence', 'GPT', 'quantum computation', 'nuclear fusion', 'Elon Musk', 'Theranos', 'information superhighway' , '2020' , the phrase 'reversible computation' is not a buzzword. Humans are attracted to buzzwords similar to how flies are drawn to sources of light that zap them. Yes. Humans are unwilling to educate themselves on what is truly important, but they instead follow all the other sheep to the end of the cliff like they did in Turkey https://www.foxnews.com/story/450-turkish-sheep-leap-to-their-deaths. But the commenters here will probably ignore everything I say and just go on some non-sensical rant about how I should not cite Fox News because Fox News is very bad. Please focus. Fox News is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Landauer's principle states that it takes k*T*ln(2) energy in order to delete a bit of information. Here, k=1.38*10^(-23) Joules/Kelvin, T is the temperature, and recall that ln(2)=0.69314... For example, if you have a gigabyte of random bits and you want to replace all of those bits with zeros, then you will need k*T*ln(2)*8*10^9 energy to replace all of those bits with zeros. In practice, it will cost much more energy than simply k*T*ln(2) per bit deleted in order to overcome thermal noise. If you use irreversible computation (regardless of whether it is CMOS or any other kind of hardware and regardless of technological improvements), then you should expect to spend more than 100*k*T energy per bit deleted. k*T*ln(2) is not a lot of energy at room temperature, but we are about to realize the limit of conventional irreversible computation since it becomes difficult to improve one's computational hardware well before reaching Landauer's limit. Up until about now, it has been easy to ignore reversible computation since

The only way to overcome Landauer's limit and compute without spending >>k*T*ln(2) energy per bit deleted is to try to compute while deleting as little information as possible. Energy efficient reversible computing is the type of computing where one computes while trying to delete as little information as possible to save the >>k*T*ln(2) energy that one would otherwise dissipate. Right now, we do not have profitable reversible computing hardware, but we have reversible programming languages, so we can develop more reversible software and reversible algorithms in anticipation for the reversible computing hardware.

Now, energy efficient reversible computing will be difficult to get off the ground. Part of the reason for this is that reversible computing has some computational overhead. But the computational overhead is quite surmountable. By applying strategies such as a good solution to Bennett's pebble game to reversible computation, one can turn any conventional irreversible algorithm into a reversible algorithm which means that the process of computing will require a little bit more space and time but as a tradeoff, it will require a lot less deletion of information. This means that reversible computation will eventually outperform conventional irreversible computation, but this also means that it will be difficult to make the first profitable reversible computers.

There is no theoretical limit to the energy efficiency of reversible computation. Reversible computation is good for general purpose computing (one should compare this with the hyped quantum computing which is only good for a few specific computations). Why don't more people know about reversible computing? Why are academia, the media, and technology corporations not yet interested in reversible computation?

It is now the time for people to become interested in reversible computation since we are getting to the point where our computation is energy efficient enough and close enough to Landauer's limit that we will need to start thinking about reversible computing.

I have brought up the topic of reversible computation before, but I have decided to bring up this topic again because reversible computation is too important to only mention once.

P.S. Do you have any good suggestions for buzzwords that describe reversible computing? Could we use something like 'ultragreen computing' , 'green computing' , 'adiabatic computing' , 'pre-quantum computing' , 'isentropic computing' , 'perpetual motion computing' (ok that was a joke), 'injective computing', or 'vladimir computin' (I apologize for this joke)?

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.

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[digaran]

 So you will be using more storage/ RAM, but less energy? What is the trade off versus using more energy but less storage? And what is the overall energy cost to produce such reversible hardware versus traditional hardware?
Is it only good to reduce heat and energy consumption or would it also increase the speed of processing?


Buzzword: Ramputer. Lol.

[jvanname]

digaran-I have ignored you. You will need someone else to quote you in order for me to respond to you. Please read up on reversible computing. You are a completely worthless entity who hates science. You are trash. The world would be a much better place without you. You are a Nazi.

[digaran]

Amazing, how can you read through ignored option? AFAIK, nobody quoted me, you are magic. Lol what is worthless is circcash and all other garbage coins out there.
You don't even know what a reversible computer actually is, you just resort to cussing and insulting because you have low self steam and think everybody dislikes you, hence your attitude  towards all community members is hostile, this could be the result of failing miserably to sell off your dead coin, but don't worry, maybe in another universe (which doesn't exist) you could find your luck and sell at least a single circcash just for the sake of appearances. Lol^256.

[jvanname]

digaran-I think my comment got deleted. But you are still a terrible person.

[ecdsa123]

Amazing, how can you read through ignored option? AFAIK, nobody quoted me, you are magic. Lol what is worthless is circcash and all other garbage coins out there.
You don't even know what a reversible computer actually is, you just resort to cussing and insulting because you have low self steam and think everybody dislikes you, hence your attitude  towards all community members is hostile, this could be the result of failing miserably to sell off your dead coin, but don't worry, maybe in another universe (which doesn't exist) you could find your luck and sell at least a single circcash just for the sake of appearances. Lol^256.

@digaran  you wrote: maybe in another universe (which doesn't exist) ,

answer: This is not consistent with any science, currently lacking confirmation or denial - it cannot be confirmed or denied. Quantum physics allows for the existence of multiple universes.

[jvanname]

digaran-"you just resort to cussing and insulting"-No. I resort to cussing and insulting you because you are a stupid f***ing piece of s***. If you were a respectable entity, I would treat you with respect. But you are not a respectable entity.

"Lol what is worthless is circcash and all other garbage coins out there."-Circcash is only worthless to stupid people like you who do not value science at all. It is not my fault that the entire cryptocurrency sector is too f***ing stupid to value scientific advancement and that they would rather worship chlurmcklets like Sam Bankman Fried.

"hence your attitude  towards all community members is hostile"-I am only hostile to stupid and evil entities like you who deserve it.

"this could be the result of failing miserably to sell off your dead coin"-Circcash mining solves the most important scientific problem. But you along with everyone else in the cryptocurrency sector is too f***ing stupid to understand it at all. Not only is the cryptocurrency sector stupid, but it is also evil. But I am not trying to sell Circcash at the moment because it will be more valuable when all the chlurmcklets realize that reversible computation is a thing. Of course, by then, it will be too late because most people are very slow learners.

"you could find your luck and sell at least a single circcash just for the sake of appearances."-I value it more than you do because I am more intelligent than you are. I will not sell something that I know is valuable when chlurmcks like you do not understand anything about anything because you are zombies.

ecdsa123-Yes. The many worlds interpretation is the most consistent interpretation of quantum mechanics. But think about who you are talking to. digaran is a fool who should be muted. And he is wrong with the science too. The only reason I have taken the time to insult that garbage entity was because you have quoted him.

[Filicius]

What started like an academic talk rapidly became a stream of insults and reproaches. Before reading the OP I also read the rules to post here, and I believed that comments would be on point, and the discussion serious (forgive the redundancy), or otherwise deleted.

I'm not a techie so I never heard about reversible computing before. The topic seems interesting and, although I don't understand many details in the opening post, I made an effort to keep reading. But you guys have completely ruined the discussion

[jvanname]

Filicius-I cannot have a decent discussion with anyone because most people are full of evil and hatred. Most people are worthless piles of trash. Most people are Nazis, and I will call them out on this. digaran is one of those Nazis. And I call people Nazis for a reason. I call people Nazis because they are Nazis. But in an effort to be civil, I have put digaran on ignore so that I do not have to be exposed to its Nazism. That did not work because someone block quoted digaran.

There is nothing wrong with calling people stupid fucking Nazis when they are stupid fucking worthless pieces of shit who will be ***** ** ****** *** *** ******** when the Lord Jesus Christ send them to Hell.

P.S. You should already know about reversible computation. The only reason why the cryptocurrency sector is so ignorant about reversible computation is that nearly everyone in the cryptocurrency sector is an absolutely insufferable @$$****. The truth hurts. Stop being ignorant. It is not cute.

[philipma1957]

Op I read your prior posts and threads.

I suppose your idea can work.

If I think of a model that all particles are still and simple follow any particle or group of particles in reverse it would work.

While i can go to a book at the last page and go backwards I am simply not capable of understanding how to do that with atomic particles using programing. I actually wish you do it and good luck.

[jvanname]

philipma1957-You are being ignored. I cannot respond to your message. Good bye.

[digaran]

Amazing, how can you read through ignored option? AFAIK, nobody quoted me, you are magic. Lol what is worthless is circcash and all other garbage coins out there.
You don't even know what a reversible computer actually is, you just resort to cussing and insulting because you have low self steam and think everybody dislikes you, hence your attitude  towards all community members is hostile, this could be the result of failing miserably to sell off your dead coin, but don't worry, maybe in another universe (which doesn't exist) you could find your luck and sell at least a single circcash just for the sake of appearances. Lol^256.

@digaran  you wrote: maybe in another universe (which doesn't exist) ,

answer: This is not consistent with any science, currently lacking confirmation or denial - it cannot be confirmed or denied. Quantum physics allows for the existence of multiple universes.

The laws of quantum physic are not applicable in the real world, and there is no space-time beyond the one universe we are in, there could be more in other dimensions which are hidden from our sight, but all the dimensions exist on the same plane of existence as we are. Things don't just come to existence randomly, everything was designed perfectly and the one God created the universe does not seem to do redundant and no use jobs, multiverse with different versions of us, or even with different creatures seems to have no practical use, since the one we are already in has more than enough space and resources to house trillion times more creatures than we could think of, but that is about another topic, this topic is about a new magical technology which only OP knows and cares about, a technology no one has ever heard of, just like some certain dead coin promoted by OP.

What started like an academic talk rapidly became a stream of insults and reproaches. Before reading the OP I also read the rules to post here, and I believed that comments would be on point, and the discussion serious (forgive the redundancy), or otherwise deleted.

I'm not a techie so I never heard about reversible computing before. The topic seems interesting and, although I don't understand many details in the opening post, I made an effort to keep reading. But you guys have completely ruined the discussion

But you could ignore the members you don't like to read, also what is there to discuss? A theoretical  future technology which does not exist, just like warp engines, or anti-matter fueled space ships, we could discuss day and night about countless of such future techs, while discussing about easier to reach techs like quantum computers and their applications is more productive.

However I apologize if I distracted you from having a decent conversation.

[jvanname]

digaran-I cannot respond to you because you are stupid and worthless. Reversible computation is the future. And I have more respect for a giant pile of bloody s%#@ from an elephant with colorectal cancer than I do for you.

It looks like I am the only person on this thread who has said anything of substance. The rest of you are f***ing stupid.

[franky1]

Landauer's principle states that it takes k*T*ln(2) energy in order to delete a bit of information. Here, k=1.38*10^(-23) Joules/Kelvin, T is the temperature, and recall that ln(2)=0.69314... For example, if you have a gigabyte of random bits and you want to replace all of those bits with zeros, then you will need k*T*ln(2)*8*10^9 energy to replace all of those bits with zeros. In practice, it will cost much more energy than simply k*T*ln(2) per bit deleted in order to overcome thermal noise.

reversible computing is about keeping previous version to undo a change and revert back to previous state
very easy, most retail sold computers have a 'factory reset' partition of hard drive to undo everything. and there are 'restore points' by keeping an image of settings of previous state, and files are not deleted the are overwritten only when new data wants space(file allocation tables)

if you are talking about data that resets(deletes) to zero without excess electric.. thats simple. have it as RAM and when not needed turn power off to the transistor and boom data is gone back to 0 by using less(no) energy compared to the energy needed to keep the data

[jvanname]

franky1-I am ignoring you. This means that while I am responding to the existence of your post, I will not respond to the content of your post. Of course, if someone quotes you, then I will be willing to respond to the content of your post. Reversible computation is the future.

[Hydrogen]

Insects are theorized to have optimized behavior patterns. Allowing them to exhibit intelligent behavior with a large variety of contextually varying inputs. On a limited computational capacity.

This is something tesla has struggled to replicate with their self driving AI.

Optimisation is one potential path to reducing the number of state changes necessary on silicon processors to reduce necessary instruction execution and save energy.

Compression might be another potential method.

Branch prediction is another candidate. Improved branch prediction leads to a greater number of cache hits and pipelines not needing to be reset.

Etc.

This is ground intel has covered since the introduction of the pentium 4 with hyperthreading.

On an implementation level, there is a question as to how "reversible computing" might work in real world application.

It might be possible although there isn't anyone pursuing it afaik.

The majority of processor gains stem from using smaller lithographic scales to etch silicon wafers. That's where the majority of research and focus is at. Smaller nanometers. There isn't anyone thinking about improving architecture.

[jvanname]

I heard that TSMC will be mass producing chips with 2 nm features at the end of 2024, and after that it gets harder and harder to shrink all the features because there is this limit called the size of an atom, and before we get to the size of an atom, quantum tunneling will make it hard to effectively compute with smaller components. So at that point, we will need to focus much more on reversible computation along with other improvements.

"This is something tesla has struggled to replicate with their self driving AI."-In other news, Tesla is just an overpriced overvalued stock bubble because people worship Musk because they are completely and totally braindead. Nikola Tesla is rolling in his grave.

When computation gets replaced by partially reversible computation, Intel and TSMC (or whoever comes next) will work on reversible optimization,compression, and branch prediction. But first, people need to figure out the physics and how to construct an energy efficient reversible logic gate since reversible branch prediction will be useless without reversible logic gates. And when people figure out how to make energy efficient reversible logic gates, they can build non-linear feedback shift registers to make a profit (well, at least if everything goes well). After we have reversible NLFSRs running and making a profit, people will work harder on optimizing reversible CPUs for reversibility. But now the priority is the physics and the process of getting energy efficient reversible logic gates.

[bluefirecorp_]

Reversible quantum AI computing when? 

There's very limited discussion of reversible compute among academic channels and most of it is purely theoretical. The "experts" in the field fill up less than a football field.

There's a lot of work to be done before there's practical approaches, but when there are - it'll be game-changing entirely.

[jvanname]

bluefirecorp_-I fully agree. With braindead chlurmcklets like digiran (who is a harasser and a horrible person) filling the world, I am not surprised that people have not noticed that reversible computation is the future. People somehow think that the laws of physics and computational complexity theory do not matter. But as soon as we get reversible quantum AI, worthless chlurmcks like digiran will go extinct.

[jvanname]

People need to be reminded that Musk worship is idolatry. The Bible forbids idolatry because idolatry is a sin. People need to worship Jesus rather than Musk. Elon constantly lies. Just go to YouTube and watch any of Thunderf00t's videos if you don't believe me. All Musk worshipers are in a cult.

Right now, the only reversible programming language available for people like me to play around with is Janus. You can play with this language here. http://topps.diku.dk/pirc/?id=janusP or here https://topps.di.ku.dk/pirc/janus-playground/ . The features of this playground are quite limited. There are limited types. There is only one type, namely the integers. You can choose for the integers to be the full ring of integers of the integers modulo 2^32. There are no 64 bit integers, Floats, Complex numbers, etc. And to get into reversible programming, it is best if we had a partially reversible language instead of a fully reversible language. Here is a paper on such a language https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.08475 , but along with the paper, they also need to publish a sandbox so that we can write programs in this language because I am not reading the paper unless they provide a playground.

Of course, I found a quantum computing playground. Hmm. This is putting the cart before the horse. Before people should get all hyped up about quantum computing, they should do something more reasonable like energy efficient reversible computing. Or at the very worst, they should investigate both energy efficient reversible computing and quantum computing at the same time.

Here is how computing should progress: Classical irreversible computing, i.e. regular computing==>Energy efficient (partially) reversible computing==>Quantum computing. Do not do things out of order.

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.