Bitcoin Forum
May 02, 2024, 09:33:34 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: congested mempool & LN  (Read 467 times)
Zoomic (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 252


My post made philipma1957 wear signature


View Profile
May 19, 2023, 09:44:28 PM
 #21


Can you please explain to me how LN improves bitcoin privacy?
When you send a payment, the receiver doesn't know which lightning node sent it. The intermediary nodes which route transactions neither know the sender nor the receiver. They only know it goes somewhere, from someone.
Thanks very much. This is nice as against the onchain address that can be looked on in the blockchain anytime

"Bitcoin: the cutting edge of begging technology." -- Giraffe.BTC
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714685614
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714685614

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714685614
Reply with quote  #2

1714685614
Report to moderator
1714685614
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714685614

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714685614
Reply with quote  #2

1714685614
Report to moderator
serveria.com
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2240
Merit: 1172


Privacy Servers. Since 2009.


View Profile WWW
May 19, 2023, 10:02:05 PM
 #22

Definitely not, but LN is L2 so it still depends on the main blockchain to function. If LN transactions are stuck somewhere between 500000 monkey and dick pics there's little use in LN.
I'm honestly curious if you're frustrated by the monkey pics per se, or by the fact that the miners prioritize transactions which pay more than you do.

I'm honestly curious why do you stubbornly keep defending that crap? Here are some guesses:

a) you don't use Bitcoin
b) you are a miner and enjoy huge profits from high fees
c) you are an NFT creator/reseller and earn money by selling ordinals
d) you are retarded

I simply don't see any other reason why you support ordinals and oppose anyone who is against them.  Cool
o_e_l_e_o
In memoriam
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2268
Merit: 18509


View Profile
May 20, 2023, 08:13:52 AM
 #23

I simply don't see any other reason why you support ordinals and oppose anyone who is against them.  Cool
I have been one of the most vocal opponents of NFTs and other such worthless crap. However, who am I to say that someone else's use case of bitcoin is wrong, and preventing them from using bitcoin in this way? What's to stop someone else coming out and saying that my use case of bitcoin is wrong, and trying to do the same thing to me?

This of course ignores the fact that even if you banned this particular method for embedding data in the blockchain, then there are other ways to embed data in the blockchain that we cannot ban, such as within signatures.
mendace
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 613


Pizza Maker 2023 | Bitcoinbeer.events


View Profile WWW
May 20, 2023, 09:13:48 AM
 #24

Problem is that even LN needs the onchain features to open and close channels. And despite the fact that I do not believe that this might be a problem in the near future, it's a fact that the more users the LN has, the more channels will need to be opened and closed. And when that needs to happen, and if the fees keep the way they are now, we will be waiting ages for channel open and closures and paying stupid high fees.

Exactly for this reason, in my opinion it was already recommended to have open channels on LN, the problem is that honestly it is not within everyone's reach to know how to maintain them without risking closure and the possibility of losing funds.  For this reason my advice is to use custodial services with small amounts, even if I know very well that someone will have to discuss this but at present if used intelligently they can be a good trade-off.
LoyceV
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3304
Merit: 16584


Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021


View Profile WWW
May 21, 2023, 10:58:33 AM
 #25

two developments which are currently ongoing are Eltoo and Channel Factories. In short, these would allow multiple users to cooperate to make a single on chain transaction, and then on top of that single transaction open as many payment channels between each other as they like. This would significantly decrease the on chain footprint of Lightning channels.
What if the channels have to be (force) closed? If that still requires the same (high fee) on-chain transaction, it solves less than half of the problem.

I had to search how it works:
Channel factories are a multi-user contract capable of opening payment channels without putting the channel-open transaction onchain.

For example, three users create a channel factory by each of them depositing some funds to an onchain 3-of-3 multisig address. Using non-broadcast (offchain) spends from that address, they open payment channels with each other (e.g. Alice↔Bob, Alice↔Charlie, and Bob↔Charlie). They can then use those channels with the same security as if they had opened them onchain because, if necessary, they can broadcast the channel-open transactions. However, they don’t need to broadcast those transactions if both parties act cooperatively, allowing them to reduce the amount of block chain data used.

For large numbers of users under ideal situations, channel factories can reduce the onchain size and fee cost of LN by 90% or more.
This sounds like a potential disaster if one of the people no longer cooperates and both the opening and closing transactions need to be broadcasted at a moment when on-chain fees are very high.

Flexystar
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 227



View Profile
June 12, 2023, 05:23:34 PM
 #26

So what happens when Lightening Network gets flooded with endless exchanger transactions and acceptance from more and more exchangers in the future?
Bear in mind that Lightning is still very much in its infancy. There are a lot of further developments which are in the works which we will hopefully see come to fruition over the coming years, and there will be plenty of more developments which have not yet been thought of.

Touching on darkv0rt3x's point above regarding opening and closing channels - two developments which are currently ongoing are Eltoo and Channel Factories. In short, these would allow multiple users to cooperate to make a single on chain transaction, and then on top of that single transaction open as many payment channels between each other as they like. This would significantly decrease the on chain footprint of Lightning channels.

I am still wondering why we haven’t developed the LN ti further upgrades yet? I mean from the discussion on this thread it’s clear that we know the LN capacity and how it is capable of moving even further. Why would it be still in the infancy if it’s existence is as it is since very long period of time. I have no idea about the open and close channels and how the algo works on that front end but definitely lot of developers already know significance of this but too far from developing upgrades.
darkv0rt3x
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204
Merit: 658


I rather die on my feet than to live on my knees


View Profile
June 12, 2023, 10:03:51 PM
 #27

So what happens when Lightening Network gets flooded with endless exchanger transactions and acceptance from more and more exchangers in the future?
Bear in mind that Lightning is still very much in its infancy. There are a lot of further developments which are in the works which we will hopefully see come to fruition over the coming years, and there will be plenty of more developments which have not yet been thought of.

Touching on darkv0rt3x's point above regarding opening and closing channels - two developments which are currently ongoing are Eltoo and Channel Factories. In short, these would allow multiple users to cooperate to make a single on chain transaction, and then on top of that single transaction open as many payment channels between each other as they like. This would significantly decrease the on chain footprint of Lightning channels.

I am still wondering why we haven’t developed the LN ti further upgrades yet? I mean from the discussion on this thread it’s clear that we know the LN capacity and how it is capable of moving even further. Why would it be still in the infancy if it’s existence is as it is since very long period of time. I have no idea about the open and close channels and how the algo works on that front end but definitely lot of developers already know significance of this but too far from developing upgrades.

I want to believe that there is the huge and plausible concern about security, privacy and mostly bug free code and the complexity of L2 seems to be easy to come with complex bugs. So, time is needed to make sure good code comes out. An as we know, it seems that there are not enough devs to keep up with the demand. And, tbh, I don't mind that the development of L2 goes slowly, steady and most important with the best code possible in terms of absence of bugs. OF course it's very very difficult but the least bugs, the best! Smiley

Bitcoin is energy. Bitcoin is freedom
I rather die on my feet than living on my knees!
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!