Dad's retirement money is invested in Bitcoin!

[Nwada001]

I feel like if I invest half the amount in Bitcoin for a year after receiving his retirement allowance, I might be able to hand over more money to my dad at the end of the year.  
Hope I get proper advice from you.

This should be an agreement between you and your dad; you can't rely on your opinion and that of others here because we are not going to share the risk involved with you. It's risky for you to invest up to half of the funds in Bitcoin; instead, you can discuss with your dad that even if 1–10% of it can be invested over a long period of time, it reduces the amount at stake, and you can as well keep a close watch on the price movement since the invested amount will be less. There's no need to panic sell; you can wait patiently for the price to go up in order to realize a profit.

I would suggest to make diversification so less risk to lose all

What do you mean by "diversification"? Does sharing the assets with different altcoins change the fact that crypto investment is risky for such a kind of money, which seems to be the family's live savings?

Your dad serves in the army for 25 years, it seems you need to live through the horror of war before you understand how hard that must have been for your father, now you want to risk all that he ever worked for?

The OP doesn't need to undergo anything in order to understand what the pension means to the father; a reasonable and close child to the parent will understand all that it took the dad to make a living; they share the pains indirectly, and the OP is not just taking all the father's retirement funds to invest in Bitcoin; all he/she asked for was an investment idea in order to increase the father's retirement fund so that it can cover up the expected expenses. Even if not all, at least a little thing will be added to it; it's better than nothing.

[Blitzboy]

Bitcoin has never lost in the long run.

What exactly makes you think so? Bitcoin is currently down ~60% from its ath ($69k), so how can you claim it has never lost in the long run?
What you mean is that historically Bitcoin's price moved in cycles, with each cycle bringing new ath, but, as the things currently are, you cannot say that it has never lost, as that's simply incorrect.
Also, the belief that the price will keep moving in the same pattern forever is naive. It's simply not possible for it to move by a similar percentage each cycle, as everything has its limits.

In 14 years of existence and development, bitcoin has had impressive growth, and anyone looking at it must be envious. But that cannot guarantee that in the future things will still happen and history will always repeat itself in such a simple way. If bitcoin investment is that easy as long as long term holding is sure to be profitable, then I will sell all my assets to invest in bitcoin without worry, LOL.

Like what is happening, when everyone knows bitcoin will increase in price after the halving? Is it that simple? Are we all going to get rich so easily?

The world of investments is never a surefire bet, not even with Bitcoin. I agree that the current ~60% drop from its ATH does paint a bleak picture. However, the essence of Bitcoin, or any investment for that matter, is not captured by its momentary performance but its long-term trajectory. Bitcoin, throughout its 14-year existence, has shown phenomenal growth. Its demonstrated its capacity to bounce back from lows and reach staggering highs. Of course, this doesnt guarantee a similar trend in the future. Yet, should we discredit its potential based on the current downturn? Indeed, thinking that the price will surge post-halving is naive. Numerous factors drive Bitcoin's value, and we must acknowledge these complexities. Bitcoin is not a ticket to overnight wealth, but rather a testament to the potential of decentralized, digital currencies. Therein lies the real value!

[GiftedMAN]

It is wise to invest in bitcoin especially if you are investing with your own money and the amount you can afford to lose but now that you want to invest with your dad's retirement money, I think you should inform him first to get his approval since it is his money not yours and also you need to chose only bitcoin investment when he finally agrees so you won't end up losing all your funds in altcoin investment because none can be trusted because they have no future.

Before you invest also try as much as possible to get knowledge on the type of investment you want to do so you don't end up wasting the money because of lack of knowledge,I will suggest you HODL but that will be more beneficial for a long term investment.

[Lida93]

His first dream is to build a house with this retirement money. But right now in my country all the materials needed to build a house are very expensive so building a house right now can't be a good decision. And I don't feel safe keeping his pension money in the bank because earlier there was inflation in my country where some banks went bankrupt.

True, starching money in the bank for a long period is only a waste of asset and time as nothing profitable is attached at the end but if I should put myself In your old-boy should I would say you should let the old man breathe fresh air with his money by building for himself and family a place to call a home of his. There's no time the cost of things are going to get better or reduced not even building materials so people should always be ready to build the size of a house their money can afford for them, and I have the feeling that the old man's retirement benefit can afford him a good sizeable house  looking at his years of service. Don't delve into the risk of crypto investment with another person's money despite your relationship with the person always make sure to use your own money and an amount you can overlook just in case. By so doing you have to owe anybody any explanation at anytime.

So right now I am not able to give him any proper advice as a boy. But one thing I've been wondering for a few days is if I invest half of my father's retirement allowance in Bitcoin, am I doing something wrong?
I feel like if I invest half the amount in Bitcoin for a year after receiving his retirement allowance, I might be able to hand over more money to my dad at the end of the year.  
Hope I get proper advice from you.

If it's your own money then you may not be doing wrong but since it's another person's money then you're doing wrong . There are things we're advised not to do as crypto investors and traders: never invest/trade on behalf of someone with their money; never trade/invest with amount beyond what you can absorb in the case of a loss.  Be mindful of the fact that market volatility may end up not working according to your plans for the end of the year.

[erep]

If it's your own money then you may not be doing wrong but since it's another person's money then you're doing wrong . There are things we're advised not to do as crypto investors and traders: never invest/trade on behalf of someone with their money; never trade/invest with amount beyond what you can absorb in the case of a loss.  Be mindful of the fact that market volatility may end up not working according to your plans for the end of the year.

I think the OP should pay attention to the above suggestions before he decides to invest part of his father's retirement allowance into crypto investments, the first factor is that the investment fund belongs to his father and he must ask permission from all family members to provide long term investment solutions that have the opportunity to make big profits in a few years , and he must also explain the impact of risk of loss if he does not consistently hold assets for the long term.

The second solution, if all family members trust the management of funds to the OP, then it is recommended that the investment fund is lower than some retirement benefits, for example 30% of benefits, the Op must also be knowledgeable about crypto market analysis and prioritize adding assets by the DCA method or diversification, so that OP has the opportunity buy at any price correction or better be patient waiting for bearish market conditions as BTC prices are heavily discounted.

[carlfebz2]

If it's your own money then you may not be doing wrong but since it's another person's money then you're doing wrong . There are things we're advised not to do as crypto investors and traders: never invest/trade on behalf of someone with their money; never trade/invest with amount beyond what you can absorb in the case of a loss.  Be mindful of the fact that market volatility may end up not working according to your plans for the end of the year.

I think the OP should pay attention to the above suggestions before he decides to invest part of his father's retirement allowance into crypto investments, the first factor is that the investment fund belongs to his father and he must ask permission from all family members to provide long term investment solutions that have the opportunity to make big profits in a few years , and he must also explain the impact of risk of loss if he does not consistently hold assets for the long term.

The second solution, if all family members trust the management of funds to the OP, then it is recommended that the investment fund is lower than some retirement benefits, for example 30% of benefits, the Op must also be knowledgeable about crypto market analysis and prioritize adding assets by the DCA method or diversification, so that OP has the opportunity buy at any price correction or better be patient waiting for bearish market conditions as BTC prices are heavily discounted.

Im pretty sure that he dont have access into his fathers retirement money but rather trying out to convince his father about investing on Bitcoin on which means that proper explanation would really be the key on here on which whether he would really be explaining it to this father if he's really that serious on telling him about investing on Bitcoin. He should really be that knowledgeable and somewhat convincing about the explanation about it because if not then for sure his father would really be just simply reject out such proposal or recommendation on investing on Bitcoin. In overall it is better not to make your Father do need to make some choices because its his retirement money after all, maybe he had something that really wants to buy or purchase but if you are really that somewhat close to your father and having that
open to each other then it wouldnt really be a hindrance to make out some recommendation in regarding to it.

[Ale88]

I don't know how I make decisions as a boy.  
My father is a military man. He has served in this military sector for 25 years. His term of service is almost at an end. After two months he was going to retire from the job. He will get retirement pension after his service life in the military sector and he has many plans based on this retirement pension.  
His first dream is to build a house with this retirement money. But right now in my country all the materials needed to build a house are very expensive so building a house right now can't be a good decision. And I don't feel safe keeping his pension money in the bank because earlier there was inflation in my country where some banks went bankrupt.
So right now I am not able to give him any proper advice as a boy. But one thing I've been wondering for a few days is if I invest half of my father's retirement allowance in Bitcoin, am I doing something wrong?
I feel like if I invest half the amount in Bitcoin for a year after receiving his retirement allowance, I might be able to hand over more money to my dad at the end of the year.  
Hope I get proper advice from you.

As much as I believe in bitcoin I don't think I would ever suggest my parents to invest half of their retirement funds in bitcoin, maybe like 1/10 yes, and that is already a very high stake. You better diversify also buying in the stock market but of course you must explain extremely well all the risks to your parents and make sure they put money in some kind of emergency fund just in case.

[adzino]

Investing in crypto currencies can be a bit of a lot risky. Like look at last few days. As soon as SEC said something about crypto currencies and started to build a case against the exchanges, the price feel like almost 30% in few second. So yeah, it's risky, but it could also give you good returns, especially if you're thinking long term. Like you said, maybe suggesting your dad to put half of his retirement money on bitcoin is a good idea, but it must be for very long term and he should only risk his retirement money if he can afford to lose it!

[bitzizzix]

If it's your own money then you may not be doing wrong but since it's another person's money then you're doing wrong . There are things we're advised not to do as crypto investors and traders: never invest/trade on behalf of someone with their money; never trade/invest with amount beyond what you can absorb in the case of a loss.  Be mindful of the fact that market volatility may end up not working according to your plans for the end of the year.

I think the OP should pay attention to the above suggestions before he decides to invest part of his father's retirement allowance into crypto investments, the first factor is that the investment fund belongs to his father and he must ask permission from all family members to provide long term investment solutions that have the opportunity to make big profits in a few years , and he must also explain the impact of risk of loss if he does not consistently hold assets for the long term.

The second solution, if all family members trust the management of funds to the OP, then it is recommended that the investment fund is lower than some retirement benefits, for example 30% of benefits, the Op must also be knowledgeable about crypto market analysis and prioritize adding assets by the DCA method or diversification, so that OP has the opportunity buy at any price correction or better be patient waiting for bearish market conditions as BTC prices are heavily discounted.

Im pretty sure that he dont have access into his fathers retirement money but rather trying out to convince his father about investing on Bitcoin on which means that proper explanation would really be the key on here on which whether he would really be explaining it to this father if he's really that serious on telling him about investing on Bitcoin. He should really be that knowledgeable and somewhat convincing about the explanation about it because if not then for sure his father would really be just simply reject out such proposal or recommendation on investing on Bitcoin. In overall it is better not to make your Father do need to make some choices because its his retirement money after all, maybe he had something that really wants to buy or purchase but if you are really that somewhat close to your father and having that
open to each other then it wouldnt really be a hindrance to make out some recommendation in regarding to it.

OP has to do all of that because investing in bitcoin is very risky if you don't have good knowledge and moreover you have to have strong patience in doing it, that's his father's retirement money, maybe there is a plan or want to buy something that already exists. He had been planning for a long time what to talk about and asked what his father wanted to do with his pension.
and my advice OP should ask for his rights if he has them, because father's pension is definitely for his family, especially his children. And if you have the rights, there's nothing wrong with asking for them while being careful if you have the rights then you will use them to invest in bitcoin.
and with this you can explain very clearly and what your motivation is to invest in bitcoin and also explain the risks that will be faced, and with this I hope that your father is willing to invest part of his retirement money into bitcoin.
and investing in the long term is the best choice, but you have to think about how your house will be in the long term, it is best if your retirement money is divided up including home repairs. And I also don't understand because OP's admission that he wants to build a house with retirement money, does OP not have a house or does he have a house but it's not in good condition, and my suggestion is to fix the house first. If that's true, and fix it as necessary so it doesn't get worse in the long run.
and all that so that all important needs are met and you can also invest in bitcoin in the long term, bitcoin is indeed a promising long-term investment, but you have to think carefully and don't have to sacrifice something important and invest with money you can afford to lose.

[YUriy1991]

I don't know how I make decisions as a boy.  

Here the first I assume you have a deep sense of responsibility and concern for your father's financial future. Making the right decisions, especially when it comes to investing, requires careful consideration and analysis. Allow me to offer some guidance and perspective on this matter.

My father is a military man. He has served in this military sector for 25 years. His term of service is almost at an end. After two months he was going to retire from the job. He will get retirement pension after his service life in the military sector and he has many plans based on this retirement pension.  
His first dream is to build a house with this retirement money. But right now in my country all the materials needed to build a house are very expensive so building a house right now can't be a good decision. And I don't feel safe keeping his pension money in the bank because earlier there was inflation in my country where some banks went bankrupt.

At least you are aware of the current situation in your country regarding the high cost of building materials and the instability of some banks. Being aware of the economic climate is very important when evaluating potential investment opportunities. It's wise to prioritize the safety and security of your father's retirement fund, especially given his many years of service.

So right now I am not able to give him any proper advice as a boy. But one thing I've been wondering for a few days is if I invest half of my father's retirement allowance in Bitcoin, am I doing something wrong?
I feel like if I invest half the amount in Bitcoin for a year after receiving his retirement allowance, I might be able to hand over more money to my dad at the end of the year.  
Hope I get proper advice from you.

As we all know Bitcoin, as a form of cryptocurrency, has received significant attention in recent years due to its high potential returns. However, it is important to understand that investing in Bitcoin comes with inherent risks. The cryptocurrency market can be very volatile, with prices fluctuating rapidly. While it is true that some individuals profit from investing in Bitcoin, it is equally important to acknowledge the potential for substantial losses.

Given the special circumstances you have described, it may be wise to explore alternative investment options that provide a more stable and predictable return on investment and as a young individual the responsibility for managing your father's retirement fund should not rest solely on your shoulders. I think it's wiser to involve your dad in this decision-making process, as he has invaluable experience and insight into his own financial goals and aspirations meaning engaging in open and honest conversations with him will allow you to consider his point of view and work together. come to the right decision. Wishing you and your father all the best in this important decision-making process.

[worldofcoins]

• The first rule of investing is not to stake what you cannot afford to lose. From your thread, your dad and the rest of the family are heavily dependent on the pension, putting that into a volatile asset is a risk, one you have to think long and hard before making.

Exactly. Otherwise, he'd be gambling that money instead of investing.

[Marykeller]

Firstly it's your dad retirement money, a retirement money he got from serving in the military which is a very risky job, I am surprised the way you speak of the retirement money as if the government gave it directly to you and placed you in charge of the funds.

That's what I want to ask OP because he speaks as if he is the one in custody of his dad's retirement money while he's not. OP can only take such a move if his Dad pays his whole retirement money into his account. Then he can start to move toward putting half of his father's stipend into Bitcoin. But in this situation, OP lacks access to his father's retirement funds, and his ambitions to invest in bitcoin will never materialize. How will he be able to justify investing half of his retirement funds in bitcoin without his consent, even if he does? Won't his father have a heart attack or be disappointed by that, seeing how his retirement money invested in bitcoin has depreciated in value.


Given that bitcoin is a safe haven investment for crypto investors. There are some steps investors don't have to do by taking a significant risk all at once, forgetting that the crypto market is volatile.

[Bushdark]

It is wise to invest in bitcoin especially if you are investing with your own money and the amount you can afford to lose but now that you want to invest with your dad's retirement money, I think you should inform him first to get his approval since it is his money not yours and also you need to chose only bitcoin investment when he finally agrees so you won't end up losing all your funds in altcoin investment because none can be trusted because they have no future.

Before you invest also try as much as possible to get knowledge on the type of investment you want to do so you don't end up wasting the money because of lack of knowledge,I will suggest you HODL but that will be more beneficial for a long term investment.

This could be a wise decision but it is very important for us to understand the level of risk op is trying or the family is trying to take since Bitcoin had been in the bear market for long now and we don't know the next step whether the market in shoot out to the moon or will want to have a taste of more bear before taking a shoot out.

This is a very risky decision and it will be unwise if the contrary happens and the retirement fund is not finally up to what they have invested in Bitcoin. The market can be crazy and desasterous if things do not work out the way it supposed to be creatinh unnecessary loses.

[benalexis12]

I don't know how I make decisions as a boy.  
My father is a military man. He has served in this military sector for 25 years. His term of service is almost at an end. After two months he was going to retire from the job. He will get retirement pension after his service life in the military sector and he has many plans based on this retirement pension.  
His first dream is to build a house with this retirement money. But right now in my country all the materials needed to build a house are very expensive so building a house right now can't be a good decision. And I don't feel safe keeping his pension money in the bank because earlier there was inflation in my country where some banks went bankrupt.
So right now I am not able to give him any proper advice as a boy. But one thing I've been wondering for a few days is if I invest half of my father's retirement allowance in Bitcoin, am I doing something wrong?
I feel like if I invest half the amount in Bitcoin for a year after receiving his retirement allowance, I might be able to hand over more money to my dad at the end of the year.  
Hope I get proper advice from you.

Your wishes and intentions are good, and I understood what you wanted to convey here in the forum. But it's better that you tell your father that and explain why you're doing it, just show and make him understand the reason and how complacent you are to do it that it's really not wasted.
But even so, of course it is still necessary if you are going to do that, we should still be in the "do it what you can afford to lose" and don't just hold it for 1 year, instead you should do it for 3-5 years, this is I'm just suggesting.

[Mame89]

I don't know how I make decisions as a boy.  
My father is a military man. He has served in this military sector for 25 years. His term of service is almost at an end. After two months he was going to retire from the job. He will get retirement pension after his service life in the military sector and he has many plans based on this retirement pension.  
His first dream is to build a house with this retirement money. But right now in my country all the materials needed to build a house are very expensive so building a house right now can't be a good decision. And I don't feel safe keeping his pension money in the bank because earlier there was inflation in my country where some banks went bankrupt.
So right now I am not able to give him any proper advice as a boy. But one thing I've been wondering for a few days is if I invest half of my father's retirement allowance in Bitcoin, am I doing something wrong?
I feel like if I invest half the amount in Bitcoin for a year after receiving his retirement allowance, I might be able to hand over more money to my dad at the end of the year.  
Hope I get proper advice from you.

Actually your intentions are very good, but you also need to explain how bitcoin works to your father. Because your father has retired and maybe now only relies on monthly pensions and interest from deposits. Where is it actually uncomfortable for you, because of course the total is very limited and you are also afraid that the bank will go bankrupt. But your father's fear is that if you invest in bitcoin, you will lose, because it is not as certain as a deposit. (Fear of no monthly money)

Therefore, you should first consult with your father about how to use pension money, especially if you say it's only one year. Bitcoin is very volatile in one year it can be profitable or vice versa. Just a suggestion, even if later you get permission from your father to use his money to invest in bitcoin, it's better for you to use the DCA method, don't use all the available funds. This is used to minimize losses.

[BigBos]

His first dream is to build a house with this retirement money. But right now in my country all the materials needed to build a house are very expensive so building a house right now can't be a good decision. And I don't feel safe keeping his pension money in the bank because earlier there was inflation in my country where some banks went bankrupt.

True, starching money in the bank for a long period is only a waste of asset and time as nothing profitable is attached at the end but if I should put myself In your old-boy should I would say you should let the old man breathe fresh air with his money by building for himself and family a place to call a home of his. There's no time the cost of things are going to get better or reduced not even building materials so people should always be ready to build the size of a house their money can afford for them, and I have the feeling that the old man's retirement benefit can afford him a good sizeable house  looking at his years of service. Don't delve into the risk of crypto investment with another person's money despite your relationship with the person always make sure to use your own money and an amount you can overlook just in case. By so doing you have to owe anybody any explanation at anytime.

It's a good thing to provide flexibility for now. Older people especially have reached retirement age it is time for them to get a return for what they gave during their service in their youth and now it can be said that it is the harvest of what they planted before, it is not very ethical to put too much pressure on investing in bitcoin especially this has a fairly large level of risk.
Thinking about the future is good, but for old people in retirement, it's time for them to enjoy, not to start, even if it's not a problem for them to learn bitcoin, but that doesn't mean they have to get involved in it.

[Ayers]

I don't know how I make decisions as a boy.  
My father is a military man. He has served in this military sector for 25 years. His term of service is almost at an end. After two months he was going to retire from the job. He will get retirement pension after his service life in the military sector and he has many plans based on this retirement pension.  
His first dream is to build a house with this retirement money. But right now in my country all the materials needed to build a house are very expensive so building a house right now can't be a good decision. And I don't feel safe keeping his pension money in the bank because earlier there was inflation in my country where some banks went bankrupt.
So right now I am not able to give him any proper advice as a boy. But one thing I've been wondering for a few days is if I invest half of my father's retirement allowance in Bitcoin, am I doing something wrong?
I feel like if I invest half the amount in Bitcoin for a year after receiving his retirement allowance, I might be able to hand over more money to my dad at the end of the year.  
Hope I get proper advice from you.

Actually your intentions are very good, but you also need to explain how bitcoin works to your father. Because your father has retired and maybe now only relies on monthly pensions and interest from deposits. Where is it actually uncomfortable for you, because of course the total is very limited and you are also afraid that the bank will go bankrupt. But your father's fear is that if you invest in bitcoin, you will lose, because it is not as certain as a deposit. (Fear of no monthly money)

Therefore, you should first consult with your father about how to use pension money, especially if you say it's only one year. Bitcoin is very volatile in one year it can be profitable or vice versa. Just a suggestion, even if later you get permission from your father to use his money to invest in bitcoin, it's better for you to use the DCA method, don't use all the available funds. This is used to minimize losses.

Using other people's money to invest in bitcoin is never considered a good intention. I think OP shouldn't just ask his father's opinion but let him decide everything because it's the only money he depends on for the rest of his life. Investing in bitcoin is a good way to increase your wealth, but it is not the only way, and not everyone is suitable to invest in bitcoin. If it's the only money and his dad has no other source of income, it's never a good idea to use that money to invest. For some people, retirement money is very important and can't be lost, so don't give advice when we're not in their position and don't know what they're thinking.

[DaNNy001]

Investing in crypto currencies can be a bit of a lot risky. Like look at last few days. As soon as SEC said something about crypto currencies and started to build a case against the exchanges, the price feel like almost 30% in few second. So yeah, it's risky, but it could also give you good returns, especially if you're thinking long term. Like you said, maybe suggesting your dad to put half of his retirement money on bitcoin is a good idea, but it must be for very long term and he should only risk his retirement money if he can afford to lose it!

I agree with you because keeping your money as bitcoin is risky but cmon, what in the world today that doesn't involves risk? But the only part about your I don't like is the part where you were trying to say that the money invested should be kept for a year, although this year has not been bad for bitcoin but no one knows what can happen at the end of the year since we are still in some kind of short bull market.

[khiholangkang]

Investing in crypto currencies can be a bit of a lot risky. Like look at last few days. As soon as SEC said something about crypto currencies and started to build a case against the exchanges, the price feel like almost 30% in few second. So yeah, it's risky, but it could also give you good returns, especially if you're thinking long term. Like you said, maybe suggesting your dad to put half of his retirement money on bitcoin is a good idea, but it must be for very long term and he should only risk his retirement money if he can afford to lose it!

And I think he decided to invest in Bitcoin for the long term, and it was the right decision rather than storing his money at the bank, and had to pay the cost of storage and pay inflation and or lost everything because the bank where he kept was bankrupt.
What underlies you suggests that the pension money is divided in two, without knowing the situation seriously. I think it's better to share 40 % for various needs 30% emergency funds, because usually if you have enough old age, the body is usually more susceptible to health, and the rest can be used to invest in a long term.

But I think if his father has more ability, it is better to open a business and the results can be tabung to invest in bitcoin.

[mirakal]

It is wise to invest in bitcoin especially if you are investing with your own money and the amount you can afford to lose but now that you want to invest with your dad's retirement money, I think you should inform him first to get his approval since it is his money not yours and also you need to chose only bitcoin investment when he finally agrees so you won't end up losing all your funds in altcoin investment because none can be trusted because they have no future.

Before you invest also try as much as possible to get knowledge on the type of investment you want to do so you don't end up wasting the money because of lack of knowledge,I will suggest you HODL but that will be more beneficial for a long term investment.

This could be a wise decision but it is very important for us to understand the level of risk op is trying or the family is trying to take since Bitcoin had been in the bear market for long now and we don't know the next step whether the market in shoot out to the moon or will want to have a taste of more bear before taking a shoot out.

This is a very risky decision and it will be unwise if the contrary happens and the retirement fund is not finally up to what they have invested in Bitcoin. The market can be crazy and desasterous if things do not work out the way it supposed to be creatinh unnecessary loses.

I definitely agree, it will be okay if that money is just a spare but considering the fact that it is a retirement money, I think you guys should plan it well and definitely involve your father about the plans and every possible scenario, even the worse one, so that he will be informed about what could happen in the future if things go wrong and he will be not surprised if something happens. You guys should talk about the worse because the market is not giving any guarantees, and if after that you guys are still going to invest, then that's the time.