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anyone4u
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March 29, 2014, 08:44:57 PM
 #221

hmm so how much hash did this person just dump on this coin ?

what was the hash before the jump to 32GH? .... so this attack had to be over 16GH min... or could have been way more?  Who has that much scrypt hash already? it essential means most scrypt coins are totally vulnerable really. That is rather scary. Only doge and ltc and perhaps a few others are safe.

If this coin had been POW+POS would that have stopped this attack?

More than the total. Narrowing it down will be hard though unless you guys track it down which will be hard

You're all underestimating how many people have farms large enough to do it. Lots of money has been made by a lot of people

so 1.2 GH to over 32GH?  are we saying then someone has 30GH of scrypt available to them? i can not bare to believe there are many people with that much hash. It must be an alliance of some kind. A single farm of 30GH is kind of HUGE.  Must be a GIANT botnet or collaboration. Maybe knc testing out the new super titans?  everyone just got upgraded from 250MH to 1GH each perhaps.
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micryon
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March 29, 2014, 08:45:13 PM
 #222

It was known long ago that scrypt was not secure. Better approaches have long been known.

That's simply an incorrect statement.. scrypt algo itself is just fine.  Maybe you mean there's not enough hash power to secure it.. which I will also have to disagree with.

Quote
The ONLY reason to deliberately create yet another scamcoin is as a scam. Pretending not to know you are creating a scam is bullshit

Sorry, but .. logical leap. (http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1211705)


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dewdeded
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March 29, 2014, 08:46:56 PM
 #223

Are you defending LTC?
Jherek
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March 29, 2014, 08:52:20 PM
 #224

So, better some blackhats fuck you up and force you to fix your weak spots than some gov does it when it really thinks it has to.

Sorry but I don't believe in this logic. You can't go before a court of law and declare, "Your honor, I am entitled to this stolen property because John Doe left their front door unlocked", it doesn't excuse the criminal behavior in itself.

It doesnt excuse criminal behaviour. But the latest events have shown, that your gov. will not obey their own laws and use criminal behaviour to get what they want.

Jherek
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March 29, 2014, 08:56:17 PM
 #225

It will need some time for you evangelists to learn that bitcoin is digital gold and not digital money.

Fyrstikken (cryptorush) would call it a commodity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q9DvydzAsY

Quote: "Bitcoin worshipers will never go to heaven " LOL

Price trending to the cost of mining it.

Use of malicious negative feedback to suppress free speech brings shame on the bitcoin community.

Frystikken is an idiot.

But that doesnt disprove my point. Its simply plain logic, that a hard cap coin can not be a currency. It IS a ponzi and risky investment.
Money works totally different from Bitcoins. As said, it is not wrong to invest in bitcoins, but what's wrong is to confuse gold and money.

molecular
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March 29, 2014, 09:00:29 PM
 #226

It will need some time for you evangelists to learn that bitcoin is digital gold and not digital money.

Fyrstikken (cryptorush) would call it a commodity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q9DvydzAsY

lol. that guy cracks me up!

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stormia
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March 29, 2014, 09:06:26 PM
 #227

It will need some time for you evangelists to learn that bitcoin is digital gold and not digital money.

Fyrstikken (cryptorush) would call it a commodity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q9DvydzAsY

Quote: "Bitcoin worshipers will never go to heaven " LOL

Price trending to the cost of mining it.

Use of malicious negative feedback to suppress free speech brings shame on the bitcoin community.

Frystikken is an idiot.

But that doesnt disprove my point. Its simply plain logic, that a hard cap coin can not be a currency. It IS a ponzi and risky investment.
Money works totally different from Bitcoins. As said, it is not wrong to invest in bitcoins, but what's wrong is to confuse gold and money.

So gold is a ponzi scheme? I'm confused. I'm also confused about what happened here. Auroracoin is dead now? Was it actually a scam or did somebody just destroy it for kicks and giggles or for their own personal motives? Also, how was it so easy to kill the coin? Doesn't this mean every other low hashrate scrypt coin is vulnerable? What about scrypt-N and PoS coins? Thanks in advance for helpful replies, I'm just looking for information and trying to understand how things are shaping up in this dark world of cryptocurrencies.
cypherdoc
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March 29, 2014, 09:11:46 PM
 #228

oh man, this takes me back to the days when bcx was threatening to 51 litecoin.  good times.

it takes me back to when BCX, the man, was destroying SolidCoin.  that thing had to go too.
markm
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March 29, 2014, 09:12:19 PM
 #229

Any CPU, GPU or even FPGA coin is insanely vulnerable.

Even with scrypt ASICs the mentality of scrypt miners might be such that no scrypt coin will be secure, since scrypt miners seem mostly to be scammers looking not to secure any blockchains but, rather, to jump around in a kind of bait-and-switch scam, fooling investors into imagining this that or the other scrypt coin is secure (due to its seeming to have hashing power securing it) while really none of that hashing power actually intends to secure the chain at all, rather it is basically eliciting bribes "how much will you pay me to abandon this chain and go mine your latest scam" kind of thing...

Maybe though if litecoin and DOGE adapt so as to be able to be merged together, one or both might manage to retain enough of the scrypt hashing power to eventually become secure?

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barwizi
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March 29, 2014, 09:14:02 PM
 #230

It will need some time for you evangelists to learn that bitcoin is digital gold and not digital money.

Fyrstikken (cryptorush) would call it a commodity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q9DvydzAsY

Quote: "Bitcoin worshipers will never go to heaven " LOL

Price trending to the cost of mining it.

Use of malicious negative feedback to suppress free speech brings shame on the bitcoin community.

Frystikken is an idiot.

But that doesnt disprove my point. Its simply plain logic, that a hard cap coin can not be a currency. It IS a ponzi and risky investment.
Money works totally different from Bitcoins. As said, it is not wrong to invest in bitcoins, but what's wrong is to confuse gold and money.

let me walk you through economics 101

1) what is money?
2) how do we define the value of money
3) why are Dollars not money?
4) why is bitcoin a better expression of value than dollars or any other gov controlled fiat currency?
Spoetnik
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March 29, 2014, 09:20:46 PM
 #231

So, better some blackhats fuck you up and force you to fix your weak spots than some gov does it when it really thinks it has to.

Sorry but I don't believe in this logic. You can't go before a court of law and declare, "Your honor, I am entitled to this stolen property because John Doe left their front door unlocked", it doesn't excuse the criminal behavior in itself.

It doesnt excuse criminal behaviour. But the latest events have shown, that your gov. will not obey their own laws and use criminal behaviour to get what they want.

I heard back in about 2007 a Black Hat hackers conference in L.A. USA a seminar about how to hack routers using WEP for internet access..
Put on by the FBI lol
They posted a video presentation and showed how it was done and then provided links to the tools for reference.

Anyway is that a crime ?

Show me the section of criminal code corresponding to the country holding the forked block chain that shows forking is illegal.

Put up or shut up ? lol ..i'm going to sit here and wait holding my breath, i know any second you will have proof  Roll Eyes

edit:
PS: Ponzi schemes ARE illegal ask Berni Madoff

and by the way consider your ass owned Wink

FUD first & ask questions later™
r3wt
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March 29, 2014, 09:22:22 PM
 #232

So, better some blackhats fuck you up and force you to fix your weak spots than some gov does it when it really thinks it has to.

Sorry but I don't believe in this logic. You can't go before a court of law and declare, "Your honor, I am entitled to this stolen property because John Doe left their front door unlocked", it doesn't excuse the criminal behavior in itself.

It doesnt excuse criminal behaviour. But the latest events have shown, that your gov. will not obey their own laws and use criminal behaviour to get what they want.

I heard back in about 2007 a Black Hat hackers conference in L.A. USA a seminar about how to hack routers using WEP for internet access..
Put on by the FBI lol
They posted a video presentation and showe how it was done and then provided links to the tools for reference.

Anyway is that a crime ?

Show me the section of criminal code corresponding to the country holding the forked block chain that shows forking is illegal.

Put up or shut up ? lol ..i'm going to sit here and wait holding my breath, i know any second you will have proof  Roll Eyes

they built their entire house of cards on this one single argument. of course you'll get no response, but you're correct.

My negative trust rating is reflective of a personal vendetta by someone on default trust.
BohemianStalker
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March 29, 2014, 09:25:06 PM
 #233

So, better some blackhats fuck you up and force you to fix your weak spots than some gov does it when it really thinks it has to.

Sorry but I don't believe in this logic. You can't go before a court of law and declare, "Your honor, I am entitled to this stolen property because John Doe left their front door unlocked", it doesn't excuse the criminal behavior in itself.

It doesnt excuse criminal behaviour. But the latest events have shown, that your gov. will not obey their own laws and use criminal behaviour to get what they want.

I heard back in about 2007 a Black Hat hackers conference in L.A. USA a seminar about how to hack routers using WEP for internet access..
Put on by the FBI lol
They posted a video presentation and showed how it was done and then provided links to the tools for reference.

Anyway is that a crime ?

Show me the section of criminal code corresponding to the country holding the forked block chain that shows forking is illegal.

Put up or shut up ? lol ..i'm going to sit here and wait holding my breath, i know any second you will have proof  Roll Eyes

edit:
PS: Ponzi schemes ARE illegal ask Berni Madoff

and by the way consider your ass owned Wink

Spoetnik I wish you would have invested in AUR when I told you so. YOu might have been on different side of fence now.
solid12345
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March 29, 2014, 09:51:32 PM
 #234


Show me the section of criminal code corresponding to the country holding the forked block chain that shows forking is illegal.


Show me the section of criminal code that making a lazy clone coin and trying to profit it off it is criminal either but it doesn't stop you all from calling them scammers or crooks.
micryon
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March 29, 2014, 09:52:02 PM
 #235

Understanding the actual issue with 51% attacks of PoW: The problem/solution is not "how much hash power the network has"...  But rather it is "how decentralized is the hash power".  Even if a network had 100 Th/s nethash.. if that's all controlled by 1 body/pool.. you are screwed anyways.  

So this has nothing to do with one algo or another, but rather how many independent solo mining operations are happening around the world that has adopted one protocol over another.  Bitcoins history itself was close at one point to having all the hash power centralized.  And through self moderation eliminated the risk.

The reason why people like GPU/and Scrypt (at least before these next round of ASICs is coming out) for the last year, is that it seemed harder to centralize Scrypt, than SHA256 ASIC farms.  Because of the decentralized nature of GPUs distributions.. and that theory is absolutely still true today..(ahead of ASICs that are just about to come out for Scrypt).

GPUs have limited supply, and more more distributed than any other type of processing available, whether it be ASIC or CPUs...

Please do not mistaken total nethash rate with distributed nethash rate.  Those are related, but different issues.

PoW part of bitcoin is just a lottery system.. so the question of security is not how much hash power any protocol can do.. but rather how decentralized a particular a PoW technology/algo.  In that sense GPUs will always win out (at least today), in terms of decentralization.

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stormia
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March 29, 2014, 10:01:42 PM
 #236

It will need some time for you evangelists to learn that bitcoin is digital gold and not digital money.

Fyrstikken (cryptorush) would call it a commodity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q9DvydzAsY

Quote: "Bitcoin worshipers will never go to heaven " LOL

Price trending to the cost of mining it.

Use of malicious negative feedback to suppress free speech brings shame on the bitcoin community.

Frystikken is an idiot.

But that doesnt disprove my point. Its simply plain logic, that a hard cap coin can not be a currency. It IS a ponzi and risky investment.
Money works totally different from Bitcoins. As said, it is not wrong to invest in bitcoins, but what's wrong is to confuse gold and money.

So gold is a ponzi scheme? I'm confused. I'm also confused about what happened here. Auroracoin is dead now? Was it actually a scam or did somebody just destroy it for kicks and giggles or for their own personal motives? Also, how was it so easy to kill the coin? Doesn't this mean every other low hashrate scrypt coin is vulnerable? What about scrypt-N and PoS coins? Thanks in advance for helpful replies, I'm just looking for information and trying to understand how things are shaping up in this dark world of cryptocurrencies.

Reposting, hoping for a reply.
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March 29, 2014, 10:14:49 PM
 #237

Understanding the actual issue with 51% attacks of PoW: The problem/solution is not "how much hash power the network has"...  But rather it is "how decentralized is the hash power".  Even if a network had 100 Th/s nethash.. if that's all controlled by 1 body/pool.. you are screwed anyways.  

So this has nothing to do with one algo or another, but rather how many independent solo mining operations are happening around the world that has adopted one protocol over another.  Bitcoins history itself was close at one point to having all the hash power centralized.  And through self moderation eliminated the risk.

The reason why people like GPU/and Scrypt (at least before these next round of ASICs is coming out) for the last year, is that it seemed harder to centralize Scrypt, than SHA256 ASIC farms.  Because of the decentralized nature of GPUs distributions.. and that theory is absolutely still true today..(ahead of ASICs that are just about to come out for Scrypt).

GPUs have limited supply, and more more distributed than any other type of processing available, whether it be ASIC or CPUs...

Please do not mistaken total nethash rate with distributed nethash rate.  Those are related, but different issues.

PoW part of bitcoin is just a lottery system.. so the question of security is not how much hash power any protocol can do.. but rather how decentralized a particular a PoW technology/algo.  In that sense GPUs will always win out (at least today), in terms of decentralization.

How many GPUs do you need to make solo mining of e.g. litecoin or DOGE worthwhile?

As everyone who has not enough tends to join a centralised pool.

So thousands of people who all have too few GPUs to feel solo mining to be worthwhile end up all flocking to a very few pools, often not even seeming to care that the pool they chose has dangerously high percentage of the hash power.

Do more GPU miners solo mine than ASIC miners who solo mine?

Maybe another way to compare would be how many litecoin p2pool nodes are there and how many bitcoin p2pool nodes are there?

-MarkM-

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grizmoblust
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March 29, 2014, 10:17:18 PM
 #238

You shouldve add PoS to your coin to prevent 51 percent attack.


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March 29, 2014, 11:01:29 PM
 #239

The reason why people like GPU/and Scrypt (at least before these next round of ASICs is coming out) for the last year, is that it seemed harder to centralize Scrypt, than SHA256 ASIC farms.  Because of the decentralized nature of GPUs distributions.. and that theory is absolutely still true today..(ahead of ASICs that are just about to come out for Scrypt).

In all discussions of GPUs/ASICS/decentralization remember that in a year or two ASICS will be the price of GPUS and everybody will have a few in their garage/basement.

GPUs will be the CPUs, ASICS will be the GPUs and quantum computing will solve the hard crypto-algo problems and render it all a pile of dodo overnight.

Use of malicious negative trust to suppress free speech brings discredit to the bitcoin community
Spoetnik
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March 29, 2014, 11:09:02 PM
 #240

So, better some blackhats fuck you up and force you to fix your weak spots than some gov does it when it really thinks it has to.

Sorry but I don't believe in this logic. You can't go before a court of law and declare, "Your honor, I am entitled to this stolen property because John Doe left their front door unlocked", it doesn't excuse the criminal behavior in itself.

It doesnt excuse criminal behaviour. But the latest events have shown, that your gov. will not obey their own laws and use criminal behaviour to get what they want.

I heard back in about 2007 a Black Hat hackers conference in L.A. USA a seminar about how to hack routers using WEP for internet access..
Put on by the FBI lol
They posted a video presentation and showed how it was done and then provided links to the tools for reference.

Anyway is that a crime ?

Show me the section of criminal code corresponding to the country holding the forked block chain that shows forking is illegal.

Put up or shut up ? lol ..i'm going to sit here and wait holding my breath, i know any second you will have proof  Roll Eyes

edit:
PS: Ponzi schemes ARE illegal ask Berni Madoff

and by the way consider your ass owned Wink

Spoetnik I wish you would have invested in AUR when I told you so. YOu might have been on different side of fence now.

In all honesty i would feel the same.. facts are facts.
I have trashed on CENT from day one and also traded it a lot too making some good money as i stated on IRC etc many times.
I have also repeatedly mentioned that i think once a coin gets thrown up on all the exchanges it's to late too try and stop it and it's fair game.
BUT, at what point to we try and stop some of these from getting supported ? (BEFORE they go on exchanges)

but ya you did give me a tip and had my finances not been tied up and on the tight side these days i might have acted on it.
I try though who else can say that ? How many guys have given in completely to supporting and defending any and all coins no matter what ?

It was the same routine for Max coin with me i knew damn well there was no conceivable way in hell i could stop it nor did i have the algo data.. yet.
It was leaked the day before launch pretty much.. when i posted online asap that it was a useless copy and paste clone.
Guys took Quark and removed the other algo's and more specifically it was copied from Blake coin. I posted the hashing algo specs etc on IRC
i traced back to Quark and it was literally copied and pasted (not rewritten) and i could show the exact Quark build it was taken from easily.
BUT.. who else cared ? i didn't see one guy make a comment in any way shape or form about all that on any of the dozen sites i was watching
 i was the only one and as usual i feel like pretty much the only guy standing by myself keeping these deceitful corrupt greedy scammers
accountable to their stunts and games and bs antics they pull all day every day.
The rest of you mostly scream "Take My Money" and brag about dem Lambo'z and fumble over each other double clicking wallet or miner .exe to flash mine asap.
and often get infected with malware because of it too. hahaaa

There is a clear distinction between a guy who mined some Doge to make some money vs the Doge tards that have roamed across the web
spamming every site they can posting nonsense, wild claims luring in people with outright false information usually to prop up the bags their holding.
This has become an epidemic across the globe i have seen thee scummy dirt bags on all kinds of web sites NOT crypto related in anyway.
The assertion that Doge coin is coin #3 of the Big three is spitting on every coin devs (REAL coin DEV's) face around the world that bent over backwards working on legit coins.
And we can say, oh well, uhh uhh, but but and mine these scams but sooner or later its going to catch up with us and i think it already has..
You guys will vanish accepting no responsibility at all for any of it.. just pass that buck as hard and as fast as you all can.

In the mean time we have rewarded the scammy asshole that made Doge etc and motivated them to make more, LOTS more !
(they seen their clone scam reach new levels of popularity i guarantee they did not expect) =  bad behavior rewarded in a pay out equivalent to winning the lottery.
Hand out a shit loads of free crack to the homeless and watch as they come back.. with a another scam coin and another and another.. it's ridiculous bs.

What is sad is i think i have yet AGAIN posted this info because of a response showing some of you still don't get it and must not have heard me say it all last time lol
And is what i just said crazy ? or is it all rather rational thinking and stuff that *should go with out saying ?
Why do i have to explain to kids why they shouldn't eat cake for breakfast lunch and dinner every day ? are we *overall mostly THAT dumb here ? really ?

FUD first & ask questions later™
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