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[Erdogan]

Not an expert, but basically chain splits are natural, it is a result of the randomness in the mining process. The main chain is well-defined, it is the longest chain, where the current difficuly is part of the computation of longest. That is where most of the hashing power is.

With a 51% attack you could double spend, that is only if someone received and accepted as payment a transaction on the abandoned chain, and this transaction is not replicated in the winning chain.

A hard fork, where the rules for the coin are changed, also needs the acceptance from the full node users. If the nodes don't follow the fork, it will not succeed.

And it is 51 % of the hashing power, not 51% of the coins.

Basically, a 51% attack is somewhat mythical.

It is quite interesting to see what is the challenges for coins with rather low mining capacity.
For Auroracoin, the most interesting thing is the Airdrop and how this pans out. It could possibly jumpstart the interest for the coin.

[1713947393]

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[1713947393]

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[markm]

51% attacks are far from mythical.

Luke Jr did it to CoiLedCoin for a few days long long ago, albeit he did not attack in any of the most destructive ways, all he did was ignore transactions and ignore other people's solved blocks so that no transactions could happen and no one other than him minted any coins during the period of his attack.

Once he thought he had "killed" the coin he stopped the attack, and the coin has been chugging along fine ever since, mostly at a nice low difficulty rate because apparently a lot of folks thought he really had "killed" it.

-MarkM-

[CryptoClub]

Not an expert, but basically chain splits are natural, it is a result of the randomness in the mining process. The main chain is well-defined, it is the longest chain, where the current difficuly is part of the computation of longest. That is where most of the hashing power is.

With a 51% attack you could double spend, that is only if someone received and accepted as payment a transaction on the abandoned chain, and this transaction is not replicated in the winning chain.

A hard fork, where the rules for the coin are changed, also needs the acceptance from the full node users. If the nodes don't follow the fork, it will not succeed.

And it is 51 % of the hashing power, not 51% of the coins.

Basically, a 51% attack is somewhat mythical.

It is quite interesting to see what is the challenges for coins with rather low mining capacity.
For Auroracoin, the most interesting thing is the Airdrop and how this pans out. It could possibly jumpstart the interest for the coin.

So what is the hashing power of a hybrid POW/POS that is not in POW phase, it would only have maybe a couple computers trying to dig up the single coin blocks. Basically no hashing power. They all claim you need 51% of the stake (coins). I know for traditional POW coins you need the 51% of the hashing power, POW. Is the stake itself considered hashing power at that point?

[markm]

\
So what is the hashing power of a hybrid POW/POS that is not in POW phase, it would only have maybe a couple computers trying to dig up the single coin blocks. Basically no hashing power. They all claim you need 51% of the stake (coins). I know for traditional POW coins you need the 51% of the hashing power, POW. Is the stake itself considered hashing power at that point?

Search for the technical threads on proof of stake, especially the ones in the technical section of the forum.

-MarkM-

[Erdogan]

51% attacks are far from mythical.

Luke Jr did it to CoiLedCoin for a few days long long ago, albeit he did not attack in any of the most destructive ways, all he did was ignore transactions and ignore other people's solved blocks so that no transactions could happen and no one other than him minted any coins during the period of his attack.

Once he thought he had "killed" the coin he stopped the attack, and the coin has been chugging along fine ever since, mostly at a nice low difficulty rate because apparently a lot of folks thought he really had "killed" it.

-MarkM-

Which is the same as the attack didn't succeed. We have had miners ignoring transactions also in bitcoin. The attack you described is an annoyance. You also get this effect if some powerful miner suddenly abandons the chain. Block frequency goes down and stays down for a long time. This is not possible when the difficulty is higher, because removing hashpower renders the mining equipment unproductive. That is a loss for that miner, for no rational reason.

[CryptoClub]

\
So what is the hashing power of a hybrid POW/POS that is not in POW phase, it would only have maybe a couple computers trying to dig up the single coin blocks. Basically no hashing power. They all claim you need 51% of the stake (coins). I know for traditional POW coins you need the 51% of the hashing power, POW. Is the stake itself considered hashing power at that point?

Search for the technical threads on proof of stake, especially the ones in the technical section of the forum.

-MarkM-

Thanks, will do. Trying to get the best information rather than spin. In your own opinion however, what are the most resistant alts?

[markm]

51% attacks are far from mythical.

Luke Jr did it to CoiLedCoin for a few days long long ago, albeit he did not attack in any of the most destructive ways, all he did was ignore transactions and ignore other people's solved blocks so that no transactions could happen and no one other than him minted any coins during the period of his attack.

Once he thought he had "killed" the coin he stopped the attack, and the coin has been chugging along fine ever since, mostly at a nice low difficulty rate because apparently a lot of folks thought he really had "killed" it.

-MarkM-

Which is the same as the attack didn't succeed. We have had miners ignoring transactions also in bitcoin. The attack you described is an annoyance. You also get this effect if some powerful miner suddenly abandons the chain. Block frequency goes down and stays down for a long time. This is not possible when the difficulty is higher, because removing hashpower renders the mining equipment unproductive. That is a loss for that miner, for no rational reason.

The demonstration of attack did succeed.

It was purely Luke Jr's conscience that caused no double spends etc to happen, he simply did not choose to do the most damage he could have done.

Any attack would have succeeded; he chose to demonstrate that fact rather than to actually do the worst damage such an attacker could have done.

Thus is did succeed. It even sicceeded in his actual goal, which was to convince the ignorant masses that the coin was dead.

This in turn has made it one of the fairest coins of all, since it has allowed anyone even with very little hashing power to merged mine some of this coin or even to directly mine it if they for some reason could not be bothered to merge it to get it, though obviously it is better to merged mine so you get your bitcoins and namecoins and groupcoins and Ixcoins and I0coins and devcoins and geistgeld at the same time as your coiledcoins.

This coin is still an excellent opportunity for small miners, as most large public merged mining pools have still not picked it back up so it is still easy for even very small miners to mine it.

He did demonstrate though that a coin should not be traded until it does have massive hashing power. Basically exchanges should not list coins until they have massive massive hashing power. That in turn would lead to miners only spending months mining a coin to get it high enough hashing long enough to make it reasonably secure-looking if they seriously intended to invest heavily into the coin - hopefully to keep on securing it even after it gets onto an exchange.

-MarkM-

[markm]

\
So what is the hashing power of a hybrid POW/POS that is not in POW phase, it would only have maybe a couple computers trying to dig up the single coin blocks. Basically no hashing power. They all claim you need 51% of the stake (coins). I know for traditional POW coins you need the 51% of the hashing power, POW. Is the stake itself considered hashing power at that point?

Search for the technical threads on proof of stake, especially the ones in the technical section of the forum.

-MarkM-

Thanks, will do. Trying to get the best information rather than spin. In your own opinion however, what are the most resistant alts?

Once upon a time litecoin looked good, but DOGE showed how pathetically vulnerable even the amount of scrypt hashing power litecoin had and DOGE acquired actually is.

Whichever of litecoin or DOGE gets by far the massive majority of the scrypt ASICs securing it might look good someday, but more likely they will keep on undermining each other making both look bad, unless by some miracle they do adjust themselves to be merged mined together using the same hashing-power.

For Proof of stake, it would be nice if someone would actually implement one of the methods the researchers ended up thinking might work, until then proof of stake seems to be mostly based on bullshit and/or the realsolid method of centralisation, but more centralised even that realsolid's solidcoin was.

Thus should probably be rejected for the same reason solidcoin was.

Everything else is too far away from having ASICs, mostly due to deliberately trying not to get ASICs, thus are basically botnet coins, more and more so as more and more botnet zombie machines have some kind of GPU in them. (Motherboards apparently are starting to have GPUs on them by default lately?)

-MarkM-

[dewdeded]

I respect your writing skills and fantasy.

Twice the last 3 weeks you convinced me for some time, that you may have some skills and I checked results after all your announcements and talking and acting like "yo i am gonna set 32 instances deflare-clients".

But now you lost me. I put you on ignore.

gg bro

Hope you get well soon. See a doctor.

[markm]

You really don't know a thing about time warp attacks, do you?

Think of it like the rocky horror show album being played at 16 rpm or less instead of at 33.3333 rpm; it just will be slower to be noticed / to take effect.

Much less "instantly exciting", but in the long run much the same really.

-MarkM-

[dewdeded]

How can anyone take his postings seriously?

He already announced twice that the blockchain is forked and it wasn't.
He then announced 3 or 4 blocks, where "Aurora is dead" or "Game over".

Even if he has some crypto coin skills and understanding, his history is full of fail and his behavior is really ill. He should make a therapy against his conduct disorders.

[CryptoClub]

So... SPA is next? (lol)

Is AUR just a one time thing, assuming whomever is behind it is participating in the thread, or are the country (scam) coins getting taken down one after the other? Any chance Iceland itself is behind it? (No, not an expert with time warps or 51% attacks.. but I find it fascinating)

I personally see Alts as experiments, and sure, most will fail and likely deserve to, but I suspect some will survive.

[Jherek]

It will need some time for you evangelists to learn that bitcoin is digital gold and not digital money.

Fyrstikken (cryptorush) would call it a commodity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q9DvydzAsY

Quote: "Bitcoin worshipers will never go to heaven " LOL

Price trending to the cost of mining it.

Use of malicious negative feedback to suppress free speech brings shame on the bitcoin community.

Frystikken is an idiot.

But that doesnt disprove my point. Its simply plain logic, that a hard cap coin can not be a currency. It IS a ponzi and risky investment.
Money works totally different from Bitcoins. As said, it is not wrong to invest in bitcoins, but what's wrong is to confuse gold and money.

let me walk you through economics 101

1) what is money?
2) how do we define the value of money
3) why are Dollars not money?
4) why is bitcoin a better expression of value than dollars or any other gov controlled fiat currency?

Maybe you should do your walk alone first. Especially point 1 and 2.
Or in other words: It is idiotic to think, that commodity with increasing difficulty to get it can be stable in a market.

[Starlightbreaker]

does he feal embarassed after failing so hard once again or does he not realise this, in his dream world?

You're a perfect example of when the ignorant attempt to sound intelligent.

Time Warp attacks are not instant attacks and they do not fork like a 51% attack.

Why don't you send a PM to Nite69, the dev the Auroracoin Team asked for help and ask if he thinks this can be called a failure just yet.


All the AUR devs did was reduce MTS from 11 to 3 and decrease time stamp diff from 120 minutes to 20 minutes which simply increases the time needed to catch up to current time once the TW begins. But I'm sure you have zero understanding of that. If I rained on your only time this year to sound intelligent, I sincerely apologize.

This isn't over, but if the price keeps falling it's going to pass Maxcoin on its way to visit Dogecoin in value.


~BCX~


                                                                                                                             

so when can we expect fireworks from you?

go fuck something up, need some entertainment here. 

[shuaigejc]

I still support the landlord way, have a look how development route.

[joiblumen]

I think it's sad so many people support what BCX is doing. I hate premined scam coins just as much as the next guy, but BCX has prematurely decided that the 50% can not possibly go to the Icelandic population and a person holding all that money will surely cash it out himself.

There is still no evidence that Baldur is cashing out and we should give him and the project a chance until anything suspicious happens. In the meantime I will continue warning everyone in the media here in Iceland of the dangers of one man keeping such a large portion of the currency and how everything could fail because of a man like BCX.

A possible exploit is something that is good to talk about and test. I know about the security implication of retargeting on every block, but it was necessary for the coins survival so it needed to be deployed. A tweak was later implemented to try to mitigate a possible attack as we got worried about time-warps.

No one is able to buy Bitcoins because of capital controls here in Iceland and now we finally have a chance to participate.
Over 7.1% of the population have claimed their share of Auroracoin. Almost everyone is talking about crypto currencies and learning about this new technology. The media has been reporting about Auroracoin every single day and a large market has merged. Even if everything falls tomorrow the project is a huge success in introducing a country under capital controls to the powers of crypto currencies.

[Spoetnik]

then? it died this bastard? or it still breathing? (i've lost 2 BTC on AUR)  

At the moment, the coin is perfectly fine.  This thread is basically a train wreck.

It's main risk now is that the misinformation spread will lower it's value so that it will be susceptible to a real attack.  The coin simply needs to regain some confidence and it should be fine.  There's no guarantee, but assuming it recovers there is a lot of potential.

so you registered 4 days ago and have made 4 comments ? hmmmm
new user scam pumper / ponzi defender ? shell account puppet no. 837465665628478278472874872487 here at Bitcointalk forums lol

Not everybody feels the need to spend their life trolling a shitty message board mate.

but many of the guys feel the need to post snotty garbage like what you just did here.

stick to the topic and lay off the insults, i laugh at you and i enjoy pointing out how you just made yourself look far worse than anything i could possibly say.
why do so many of you insist on bending over backwards to make yourselves look bad ?

did i attack anyone personally ? of course not.. why would i ? it's about ideals and concepts.. not about saying some kid is ugly and his mother dresses him funny.
grow up ..i have said it here lots before and i will do it again.. This is not your school kids. Act your age.
And if you disagree with something i said fine no problem feel free to disagree and argue against any assertion i have made. I enjoy real and mature talks from adults.
And i hate brats.. we have far too many mouthy kids here that do not posses the intellect to carry on a mature conversation..
so please just stick to posting meme.jpg's as your method of communication. The school yard childish antics are not helping your cause trust me.

[memecoin]

then? it died this bastard? or it still breathing? (i've lost 2 BTC on AUR)  

At the moment, the coin is perfectly fine.  This thread is basically a train wreck.

It's main risk now is that the misinformation spread will lower it's value so that it will be susceptible to a real attack.  The coin simply needs to regain some confidence and it should be fine.  There's no guarantee, but assuming it recovers there is a lot of potential.

so you registered 4 days ago and have made 4 comments ? hmmmm
new user scam pumper / ponzi defender ? shell account puppet no. 837465665628478278472874872487 here at Bitcointalk forums lol

Not everybody feels the need to spend their life trolling a shitty message board mate.

but many of the guys feel the need to post snotty garbage like what you just did here.

stick to the topic and lay off the insults, i laugh at you and i enjoy pointing out how you just made yourself look far worse than anything i could possibly say.
why do so many of you insist on bending over backwards to make yourselves look bad ?

did i attack anyone personally ? of course not.. why would i ? it's about ideals and concepts.. not about saying some kid is ugly and his mother dresses him funny.
grow up ..i have said it here lots before and i will do it again.. This is not your school kids. Act your age.
And if you disagree with something i said fine no problem feel free to disagree and argue against any assertion i have made. I enjoy real and mature talks from adults.
And i hate brats.. we have far too many mouthy kids here that do not posses the intellect to carry on a mature conversation..
so please just stick to posting meme.jpg's as your method of communication. The school yard childish antics are not helping your cause trust me.

[Spoetnik]

I think it's sad so many people support what BCX is doing. I hate premined scam coins just as much as the next guy, but BCX has prematurely decided that the 50% can not possibly go to the Icelandic population and a person holding all that money will surely cash it out himself.

There is still no evidence that Baldur is cashing out and we should give him and the project a chance until anything suspicious happens. In the meantime I will continue warning everyone in the media here in Iceland of the dangers of one man keeping such a large portion of the currency and how everything could fail because of a man like BCX.

A possible exploit is something that is good to talk about and test. I know about the security implication of retargeting on every block, but it was necessary for the coins survival so it needed to be deployed. A tweak was later implemented to try to mitigate a possible attack as we got worried about time-warps.

No one is able to buy Bitcoins because of capital controls here in Iceland and now we finally have a chance to participate.
Over 7.1% of the population have claimed their share of Auroracoin. Almost everyone is talking about crypto currencies and learning about this new technology. The media has been reporting about Auroracoin every single day and a large market has merged. Even if everything falls tomorrow the project is a huge success in introducing a country under capital-controlls to the powers of crypto currencies.

the same thing has been said about every single other premined coin clone started EVER.. you think you just made up that retort ? lol
puuuuhleeze spare me lol

reality check here is the facts.. history has PROVEN these guys can and will dump allover us /the end.

[Spoetnik]

then? it died this bastard? or it still breathing? (i've lost 2 BTC on AUR)  

At the moment, the coin is perfectly fine.  This thread is basically a train wreck.

It's main risk now is that the misinformation spread will lower it's value so that it will be susceptible to a real attack.  The coin simply needs to regain some confidence and it should be fine.  There's no guarantee, but assuming it recovers there is a lot of potential.

so you registered 4 days ago and have made 4 comments ? hmmmm
new user scam pumper / ponzi defender ? shell account puppet no. 837465665628478278472874872487 here at Bitcointalk forums lol

Not everybody feels the need to spend their life trolling a shitty message board mate.

but many of the guys feel the need to post snotty garbage like what you just did here.

stick to the topic and lay off the insults, i laugh at you and i enjoy pointing out how you just made yourself look far worse than anything i could possibly say.
why do so many of you insist on bending over backwards to make yourselves look bad ?

did i attack anyone personally ? of course not.. why would i ? it's about ideals and concepts.. not about saying some kid is ugly and his mother dresses him funny.
grow up ..i have said it here lots before and i will do it again.. This is not your school kids. Act your age.
And if you disagree with something i said fine no problem feel free to disagree and argue against any assertion i have made. I enjoy real and mature talks from adults.
And i hate brats.. we have far too many mouthy kids here that do not posses the intellect to carry on a mature conversation..
so please just stick to posting meme.jpg's as your method of communication. The school yard childish antics are not helping your cause trust me.

i just want quote what you said it's cute. lol
try mustering up some intelligent conversation next time maybe it would be more effective than your meme picture
post more you sure showed me..