Bitcoin negatives

[jossiel]

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

We're living in a world where cash is still the king and we're aware of that. And everything can be bought by fiat and that's a reality that you've said that. But about central bankers gonna win? I guess so but who knows until most of them starts to file for bankruptcy when people hold their own money with their own personal banks(not banks but wallets).

For reference, OP keep saying similar statement on multiple threads
only 7% of supply is halving
Bitcoin is 93% mined today, will the future be born into 100% premine like fiat
So when bitcoin version 2 satoshi?

and some more. I would suggest reader on this thread to ignore OP since it seems he only make very few reply before creating new similar thread.

Thanks man.

It seems that he's got his own preference that he wants to push to everyone despite of it being not really going to make sense upon reading.

[Blitzboy]

Premine percentages? How naive of you to think that way! Its a simple way to think about math. Regarding Hal's words about energy, its dishonest to say that Bitcoin's use of energy is a waste while ignoring how much energy the current banking system and gold mining use.

Can one person be half of the network? Nonsense. Bitcoin is not controlled by a single company because it is not centralized. As for Central Bankers, they might buy miners and coins, but the idea behind Bitcoin and the fact that it is decentralized are meant to stop this from happening.

Bitcoin-related deaths? Lets not forget that paper currencies have been used for hundreds of years to pay for wars, genocides, and other terrible things. And how short-sighted to not have network fees pay for public things. Bitcoin encourages people to be financially independent and take care of themselves.

Transactions and fees? Technology moves forward. When money is not controlled by a few people, these worries will go away. The biggest problem for a miner? Way too much! Miners would have no reason to hurt the environment that makes them money.

[m2017]

Bitcoin, of course, is not perfect and has some features that should be taken into account, but OP's arguments about the negative aspects of bitcoin look ridiculous.

Especially, what is not easy to call an adequate argument:

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

I don’t even want to comment on this, and reasonable people will understand without it.

1-3 hour transactions

Where did you see this? In principle, if the mempool is too full, some delays are possible, but in general, transactions in the bitcoin network are quite fast. Transactions can take 1-3 hours at too low commission values and if you are not greedy, then it takes less time.

[Emmanuelex]

Some points you have made here are just not making any sense to me.
What exactly does Bitcoin mining fee has to do with garbage, roads and the rest of them? It doesn't make any sense.
As for the mining, there are renewable energy sources being used now by most of the miners, so that's less of an issue to worry about. And when it comes to the issue with energy thing, there are other things that are worst than Bitcoin mining and even does more damage to our environment, but nobody wants to talk about those things.

[someone703]

The reality is that bitcoin's impact on the environment must be placed in the overall context of the energy industry and issues related to energy production and use. Optimizing power consumption and finding eco-friendly solutions is not only the responsibility of bitcoin but the entire industry.

And a 51% attack is a complex and economically impractical task, especially in a distributed network like bitcoin. This proves that bitcoin has been carefully designed to protect the integrity of the network and avoid potential risks.

[moneystery]

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

if you say that bitcoin is a waste of energy and should be used for something better, you should ask your government what they have been doing so far that they don't think about developing more energy for their citizens. You shouldn't blame miners for the energy used, because they pay for it.

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

why are you passing that on to the bitcoin community? it has nothing to do with that. you should leave that to the government because that's their business and not the bitcoin community's business.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

actually it depends on the network and fees that you spend. if you make a transaction now, surely it will be processed quickly with low fees.

what you are saying doesn't make any sense at all. you say negative things with bitcoin which has nothing to do with bitcoin. There are some negatives with bitcoin, but there are a lot more positives about it which makes it far better than fiat and banking which is centralized and manipulative.

[so98nn]

I strongly believe that this is just out of aggression and it doesn’t mean anything at all. If Bitcoin was so much negative then why there is war for its existence? Since Bitcoin has entered the realm everyone is trying to be smarter and making their own businesses on its principles. Big financial institutes, crypto related banks, various brokerage firms everyone is using Bitcoin to become one of world leading entities in the domain.

Mining rewards, miners, users everyone is already happy. Miners are getting rewards with the technology at hands and with lowest possible ROI using various techniques. Moreover, bitcoins mining process is smartly designed so that block reward is halving and at the same time compensation is happening because of the increase Bitcoin prices.

I think everything is well settled. Bitcoin will overpower many centralised financial institutes. Just wait and watch.

[lionheart78]

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

The predecessor of these people have the chance to mine Bitcoin, don't blame Bitcoin for the opportunity missed by the parents and grand parents of these children.

Causes toxic waste material (even hal said this).

Any industry that does not produce toxic waste materials?  Why are you so absorbed on pointing this thing on Bitcoin?  Btw, any link to support the statement?

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

Same here can give the link about this?

1 person can be 50% of the network.

Any possible instance that this even will happen? Can you show the the path on how this thing will happen?

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

Sure central bankers have all the funds needed to buy miners and coins, ever wonder why they did not do this until now?

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

what?

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

Bitcoin is a technology and not a charity.  I think it has been established as that.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

You always have the option to change the payment system.  Bitcoin is not fixed all the problem solutions, the good thing about it is its progress and development that slowly moving to faster transaction confirmation and easier usage.

[darewaller]

Some on your list may be true, some may be not. But have you also made a list of fiat negatives? Bitcoin is an alternative. You might want to take a closer look at the main option in order to have a fairer and more balanced view. Only then could you pass the final verdict and set aside Bitcoin. You might actually end up with a much longer list. There's a reason why fiat badly needs to have an alternative.

Also, Newton's third law of motion is true not just in physics but in other aspects of our existence as well. Every time we eat, we contribute to the world's degradation. Shall we stop eating?

You can also ask him to post the positives of Bitcoin. I am sure there are lots of it which can negate its negatives. Fiat might have some positives too but I think its negative is much more than it. That is the reason why Bitcoin is born to supply it.

If only the banks or governments are going to be asked, I think that fiat is already enough for them. For them it is already a perfect creation and there is no need for an alternative such as Bitcoin. They think that an alternative currency will only get the demand that their fiat is supposed to be getting or worse their fiat will be overcome by it. It's only funny that they didn't saw Bitcoin coming and it's now too late for them to stop it.

[Yatsan]

Some on your list may be true, some may be not. But have you also made a list of fiat negatives? Bitcoin is an alternative. You might want to take a closer look at the main option in order to have a fairer and more balanced view. Only then could you pass the final verdict and set aside Bitcoin. You might actually end up with a much longer list. There's a reason why fiat badly needs to have an alternative.

Also, Newton's third law of motion is true not just in physics but in other aspects of our existence as well. Every time we eat, we contribute to the world's degradation. Shall we stop eating?

You can also ask him to post the positives of Bitcoin. I am sure there are lots of it which can negate its negatives. Fiat might have some positives too but I think its negative is much more than it. That is the reason why Bitcoin is born to supply it.

If only the banks or governments are going to be asked, I think that fiat is already enough for them. For them it is already a perfect creation and there is no need for an alternative such as Bitcoin. They think that an alternative currency will only get the demand that their fiat is supposed to be getting or worse their fiat will be overcome by it. It's only funny that they didn't saw Bitcoin coming and it's now too late for them to stop it.

Stability with the market vaalue is Fiat's best feature simply because it promotes equality with the price of market goods. Next is centtalization and recognition to most of the countries. Unlike with Bitcoin and other crypto which has its limitation in particular with adoption and wide usage of this technology. Bitcoin will be on a bigger stage and will be acknowledge by more people in the future but to those who are thinking that it might be the main mode of payment in every transaction then that's so far from the reality. There a higher tendency for these two systems of digital currency are being pick upon by people but co-existence is more likely to happen despite of any negative or positive side.

[PeRo]

We were all newbies once, but I sure do wish that we could somehow make it harder for them to post crap like this.

Firstly, the supply system is regulated as you might know, so 93% of mined coins doesn't really make a difference. Toxic waste? Do you know how small that is compared to big companies?
How do you exactly feed or cure people with energy? Hypothetical nonsense isn't really accountable - "You could of do this instead of that".

Other nonsense points aside,

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

Why the hell would the fees go for those causes? Your fiat money will get taxed for this, no need to get Bitcoin into that.
There are some delays sometimes, but most of the time if you give a decent fee, it will be processed rather quick. Your bank also charges provision for your transactions, nothing is free. I doubt there are many people buying coffee with Bitcoin, but even if they do, I doubt that the fee will be bigger than the product/service bought.

As you are a hater, I would suggest going elsewhere to spread nonsense against Bitcoin since you will just be defeated by arguments here. It wont get you anywhere.

[pawel7777]

93% premine to anyone born today.
100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

mined =/= premined

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

How so? Why am I to blame for other person hurting someone for their bitcoins? Am I to blame for fiat-related crimes as well because I use fiat? Or does it only work for Bitcoin?

[Captain Corporate]

Some of these are incredibly funny. One person can have %50 of the mining power is technically true, I would love to see someone try though lol. We are talking about tens of billions of dollars worth of investment for a small uptick, which should be done in a way that nobody else would ever do anything about it at the same time, and no blockchain change would have to happen to prevent you at the same time. Have you been around when we moved from legacy to segwit? Because that's literally what we did and suddenly miners lost their power. The energy that can be used for cancer research? Aviation is the biggest cause of cancer by that logic lol. Lets be real, some of these are "technically true" but in reality not so much.

[Casdinyard]

making it sound as if bitcoin's the only cryptocurrency there is, and as if the remaining 7% is going to be mined willy-nilly. It's going to take another 120 years before you fully mine the bitcoin supply, and even if that happens it doesn't mean that the whole structure of bitcoin will fall down. Mining is one of its ventures but there are a plethora of ways for people to make money here. I'd argue that soon as the total supply's mined completely it could even urge a global movement of using bitcoin as a bona fide currency, meaning the adoption that some people are looking for's coming to fruition.

Plus the transaction times you're sad about is solved by layer-2 issues. Every bad thing you throw at bitcoin, a solution or a workaround was made for it already.

[Alpha Marine]

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

So many loads of bullshit here but this one caught my attention.
What the hell do you mean by this? How do you want someone's money to go to schools, garbage, and Medicare? Is that how the charity works?
Imagine saying people's part of people's salary should compulsorily go to charity. That's some bullshit.
The miners work for every penny they get so whatever money they get is earned.

[serveria.com]

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

Causes toxic waste material (even hal said this).

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

1 person can be 50% of the network.

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

Only 1 miner wins in the end then it becomes centralized, he can push all the other miners out. This will be the FED.
this simulation proves it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41RW6bxpM4

Most of these points are not valid, some of them are more about mining than Bitcoin per se. Also, Bitcoin is not a currency and it wasn't meant to be instant or cheap. LN can be used to buy coffee and for similar instant transactions.

Some "facts" are outright BS, like this one: Only 1 miner wins in the end then it becomes centralized, he can push all the other miners out. This will be the FED.
this simulation proves it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41RW6bxpM4

[Ale88]

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

I'm sure in 2140 you can start a new thread complaining how every single bitcoin has been mined.

Causes toxic waste material (even hal said this).

Oh, sure, because gold extraction, just to make an example, doesn't ruin entire ecosystems, right?

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

The energy, which is electricity, can be used to feed people? How?

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

And yet nobody has done it.

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Now? Because now criminals stopped caring about cash, gold, diamonds, etc? Now everything is about bitcoin?

Very funny thread.

[Darker45]

Some on your list may be true, some may be not. But have you also made a list of fiat negatives? Bitcoin is an alternative. You might want to take a closer look at the main option in order to have a fairer and more balanced view. Only then could you pass the final verdict and set aside Bitcoin. You might actually end up with a much longer list. There's a reason why fiat badly needs to have an alternative.

Also, Newton's third law of motion is true not just in physics but in other aspects of our existence as well. Every time we eat, we contribute to the world's degradation. Shall we stop eating?

You can also ask him to post the positives of Bitcoin. I am sure there are lots of it which can negate its negatives. Fiat might have some positives too but I think its negative is much more than it. That is the reason why Bitcoin is born to supply it.

If only the banks or governments are going to be asked, I think that fiat is already enough for them. For them it is already a perfect creation and there is no need for an alternative such as Bitcoin. They think that an alternative currency will only get the demand that their fiat is supposed to be getting or worse their fiat will be overcome by it. It's only funny that they didn't saw Bitcoin coming and it's now too late for them to stop it.

Stability with the market vaalue is Fiat's best feature simply because it promotes equality with the price of market goods. Next is centtalization and recognition to most of the countries. Unlike with Bitcoin and other crypto which has its limitation in particular with adoption and wide usage of this technology. Bitcoin will be on a bigger stage and will be acknowledge by more people in the future but to those who are thinking that it might be the main mode of payment in every transaction then that's so far from the reality. There a higher tendency for these two systems of digital currency are being pick upon by people but co-existence is more likely to happen despite of any negative or positive side.

If we are to consider today and tomorrow, then we can say that fiat is stable. But we, humans, plan much ahead. We consider our future in years. Fiat, in this sense, is not really a stable way to store value. If we are saving fiat for our children's college education, for example, we will realize how unstable this money is. It only took a little more than a decade for the minimum public transportation fare in my locality to grow 140%. This isn't stability.

Anyway, I agree that coexistence is much more likely than Bitcoin taking over fiat. But then I'm not losing hope that when the time comes when people would finally demand that money be separated from state, Bitcoin would be the preferred choice.

[tbct_mt2]

If we are to consider today and tomorrow, then we can say that fiat is stable.

Fiat is stable between today and tomorrow but after a while, few years, several decades, we see fiat currency loses its purchasing power. It is less terrible with fiat currencies at big nations with better inflation controls and stronger economies. Unfortunately, it is more terrible at nations with weaker, unhealthier economies and hyper inflationary policies from governments that care more about their benefits than their citizens' benefits.

Anyway, I agree that coexistence is much more likely than Bitcoin taking over fiat. But then I'm not losing hope that when the time comes when people would finally demand that money be separated from state, Bitcoin would be the preferred choice.

As investors, we care more about profit, growth of our capital and we tend to accept risk to achieve profit. Whether profit we get in fiat value worth anything, it is another story and depends on each national central bank and their fiat currency.

[pawel7777]

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

And yet nobody has done it.

It wouldn't even make any sense.
- Central bankers decide to buy all the bitcoins.
- Every hodler gets filthy rich in the process.
- Central bankers now hold all the supply, but since no one is buying/using it, it becomes worthless.
- Bitcoiners either buy it back for pennies or just fork a new version.

That's one sh*tty attack vector if you ask me.