Tornado cash founders charged with money laundering/sanctions violations

[coupable]

They're finding new space because of Trump & republicans but their future isn't certain. If democrats win the next election we don't know how they'll handle crypto policies. America on it's own shouldn't decide the fate of mixers.

The policies of the two major parties in the United States are determined by the general direction of the country. These parties do not have absolute power to decide everything and cannot impose their choices as simply as some may think. We often forget the major rule that says that decentralized systems generally do not appeal to governments and financial institutions, so the Democrats are not friends of crypto, considering that Trump supports it, as evidenced by the fact that all previous policies of the Democrats were not supportive of crypto. The same applies to the Republicans, who we do not know if they really support Trump in his choices. No matter how friendly the ruling party's choices are to crypto, they will not allow fully decentralized applications or any service that provides complete privacy for users. This does not serve the interests of any party in the ruling institutions.

[btc_angela]

@OmegaStarScream, here is the latest update and it's very positive,



https://x.com/alex_pertsev/status/1887523522488283488

And I do agree with him, it's better this way than to spend his days in prison. I'm assuming though by electronic tag is will only mean ankle tag. And so he can still access his laptop or desktop pc.

[arabspaceship123]

If the policies of the two major political parties in America are the same it doesn't help bitcoin or crypto to develop fast unless they're designed to push bitcoin agenda to a new level. The don't want decentralised applications because they want all the tx data so it's up to the voters to decide who they want as president. They've chosen Trump this time but we don't know how he's going to behave.

The policies of the two major parties in the United States are determined by the general direction of the country. These parties do not have absolute power to decide everything and cannot impose their choices as simply as some may think. We often forget the major rule that says that decentralized systems generally do not appeal to governments and financial institutions, so the Democrats are not friends of crypto, considering that Trump supports it, as evidenced by the fact that all previous policies of the Democrats were not supportive of crypto. The same applies to the Republicans, who we do not know if they really support Trump in his choices. No matter how friendly the ruling party's choices are to crypto, they will not allow fully decentralized applications or any service that provides complete privacy for users. This does not serve the interests of any party in the ruling institutions.

[dkbit98]

Suspending detention is not freedom but this is a step in a good direction, let's hope Dutch court will release Pertsev after a fail trail in finished.
Roger Ver is in similar situation, he is still located in Mallorca, Spain, not allowed to leave the country, and they are preparing lifetime prison sentence for him

[bbc.reporter]

They're finding new space because of Trump & republicans but their future isn't certain. If democrats win the next election we don't know how they'll handle crypto policies. America on it's own shouldn't decide the fate of mixers.

However, there should be a difference considered between a mixer and an autonomous, decentralized, privacy tool. Tornado Cash is not only a mixer. This is software. The developers are not liable because a moneylaunderer used Tornado Cash. The government should chase the criminal very much similar to the government chasing the terrorists who used Nokia phones as bomb detonators. Nokia is not liable.

In any case, Paradigm's cofounder has proposed to stop the cases against Tornado Cash developer Roman Storm. This is very good news.



Matt Huang didn’t necessarily ask the administration to consider a new policy so much as focus its attention on something it has deprioritized: the Department of Justice’s case against the American developer of the cryptocurrency mixer Tornado Cash, according to a person who was briefed after the summit. The Department of Justice charged naturalized American citizen Roman Storm of money laundering, unlicensed money transmission, and sanctions violations for having created the tool, which effectively scrambles cryptocurrency transactions in order to provide privacy to its users. Huang said that the DOJ should reconsider the Biden-era suit.

Read in full https://unchainedcrypto.com/5-ideas-pitched-at-the-white-house-crypto-summit-behind-closed-doors/

[OmegaStarScream]

JUST in: US Treasury Removes Tornado Cash From Sanctions List[1] (although I'm not sure what's the difference between this decision and what did the Texas court did a few weeks back?)

Very interesting, especially given that Lazarus Group has used them to hide their tracks just a week ago after hacking ByBit.

[1] https://beincrypto.com/us-treasury-tornado-cash-sanctions-removed-tron-surges/

[arabspaceship123]

The fed govt could've appealed the Texas court decision to overturn sanctions. It's now the fed govt's turn. They've taken Tornado Cash off the sanctions list. The fed treasury's decided they won't appeal the Texas judgement or take action against Tornado Cash but they're advising caution. Mixers & coinjoiners will hope for the same if their name's on a sanctions list one day.

[takuma sato]

The fed govt could've appealed the Texas court decision to overturn sanctions. It's now the fed govt's turn. They've taken Tornado Cash off the sanctions list. The fed treasury's decided they won't appeal the Texas judgement or take action against Tornado Cash but they're advising caution. Mixers & coinjoiners will hope for the same if their name's on a sanctions list one day.

They should really push this cause and get mixers and coinjoiners out of any sanctions now that there is a more reasonable administration when it comes to crypto. It's just insane that because you used mixers to try to have any reasonable privacy in bitcoin, now you cannot use this bitcoin anymore or else you risk that you end up in problems as chainalysis type software may trigger alarms next to your personal information which would be tied to these coins as you try to use it on any goods on services that require going through KYC. We should have a right to do anything we want with these coins, including selling them and paying taxes if we want to, in order to buy property, stocks or whatever, but these things require KYC and if your coins went through a mixer now you have a problem when you didn't do anything wrong. We need governments to understand the simple fact that wanting anonymity doesn't mean you are a criminal by default. If they don't understand this then no one will want to sell their coins in order to not risk that and they will lose on collecting all these taxes.

[arabspaceship123]

While Trump's got influence they've got an opportunity to change perceptions about mixers & coinjoiners. Elon Musk's pushing the cause for crypto. Bitcoin doesn't give privacy because the blockchain's open. Using mixers shouldn't make ppl believe you're doing some thing wrong ppl if want privacy. If govt's understand ppl want anonymity there's a chance it's going to change their thinking.

They should really push this cause and get mixers and coinjoiners out of any sanctions now that there is a more reasonable administration when it comes to crypto. It's just insane that because you used mixers to try to have any reasonable privacy in bitcoin, now you cannot use this bitcoin anymore or else you risk that you end up in problems as chainalysis type software may trigger alarms next to your personal information which would be tied to these coins as you try to use it on any goods on services that require going through KYC. We should have a right to do anything we want with these coins, including selling them and paying taxes if we want to, in order to buy property, stocks or whatever, but these things require KYC and if your coins went through a mixer now you have a problem when you didn't do anything wrong. We need governments to understand the simple fact that wanting anonymity doesn't mean you are a criminal by default. If they don't understand this then no one will want to sell their coins in order to not risk that and they will lose on collecting all these taxes.

[bbc.reporter]

Very interesting, especially given that Lazarus Group has used them to hide their tracks just a week ago after hacking ByBit.

What are you implying? That this is now the wrong decision? This is very headshaking if this is another criticism from people in the forum because the hate the Donald and it appears that if his administration has made the correct decision, there will always be these types of questioning the decision hehehehehe.

Have you forgotten that the criminals on the hack on Bybit is Lazarus? It was a mistake by the Biden administration to sanction Tornado Cash and imprison their founders. The founders were creating software to help users have privacy in the cryptospace. They are not criminals.

[OmegaStarScream]

Very interesting, especially given that Lazarus Group has used them to hide their tracks just a week ago after hacking ByBit.

What are you implying? That this is now the wrong decision? This is very headshaking if this is another criticism from people in the forum because the hate the Donald and it appears that if his administration has made the correct decision, there will always be these types of questioning the decision hehehehehe.

Have you forgotten that the criminals on the hack on Bybit is Lazarus? It was a mistake by the Biden administration to sanction Tornado Cash and imprison their founders. The founders were creating software to help users have privacy in the cryptospace. They are not criminals.

I'm definitely not implying any of that. On the contrary, I'm all for this decision. I'm just impressed by how pro-crypto/maybe privacy the current administration is. It's just not something I was expecting, and I don't think many people were either?

[Synchronice]

They should really push this cause and get mixers and coinjoiners out of any sanctions now that there is a more reasonable administration when it comes to crypto. It's just insane that because you used mixers to try to have any reasonable privacy in bitcoin, now you cannot use this bitcoin anymore or else you risk that you end up in problems as chainalysis type software may trigger alarms next to your personal information which would be tied to these coins as you try to use it on any goods on services that require going through KYC. We should have a right to do anything we want with these coins, including selling them and paying taxes if we want to, in order to buy property, stocks or whatever, but these things require KYC and if your coins went through a mixer now you have a problem when you didn't do anything wrong. We need governments to understand the simple fact that wanting anonymity doesn't mean you are a criminal by default. If they don't understand this then no one will want to sell their coins in order to not risk that and they will lose on collecting all these taxes.

While politicians are dumb people with extreme luck, they know it well, they know that people want to protect their privacy because but at the same time governments and politicians want power, so, in order to have power, they need full transparency from people because when you have all the necessary information and statistics of your citizen, you'll run better marketing campaign for the next elections and you'll also easily get rid of unwanted opponents.

Since lots of people also abuse privacy, it's an enough arguments for politicians to ban privacy for everyone despite the fact that crime still happens behind the scenes because governments are corrupt and they use their power to help criminals. The problem is that government only helps its criminals, not 3rd party criminals, so, privacy is banned for you but not for their criminals. Do you think that governments have no idea how drugs are sold in their countries and how do they earn money? They know but it's protected business by them and any 3rd party that will try to compete, will be eliminated.

If govt's understand ppl want anonymity there's a chance it's going to change their thinking.

I think that there is only a minority that wants anonymity. I remember that someone was sending sindbad sig campaign earned money directly to Binance's Bitcoin address, this is funny.

[arabspaceship123]

Biden couldn't see the differences between criminals laundering crypto & ppl who're after private tx's. Govt's know mixers or coinjoins are made to increase anonymity. If ppl misuse crypto privacy products it doesn't mean the devs should be arrested. Trump looks like he's doing things a different way.

I'm definitely not implying any of that. On the contrary, I'm all for this decision. I'm just impressed by how pro-crypto/maybe privacy the current administration is. It's just not something I was expecting, and I don't think many people were either?

[Kemarit]

Very interesting, especially given that Lazarus Group has used them to hide their tracks just a week ago after hacking ByBit.

What are you implying? That this is now the wrong decision? This is very headshaking if this is another criticism from people in the forum because the hate the Donald and it appears that if his administration has made the correct decision, there will always be these types of questioning the decision hehehehehe.

Have you forgotten that the criminals on the hack on Bybit is Lazarus? It was a mistake by the Biden administration to sanction Tornado Cash and imprison their founders. The founders were creating software to help users have privacy in the cryptospace. They are not criminals.

I'm definitely not implying any of that. On the contrary, I'm all for this decision. I'm just impressed by how pro-crypto/maybe privacy the current administration is. It's just not something I was expecting, and I don't think many people were either?

I don't know, but it's was not a surprised as we all know that Trump is pro crypto, they've released Ross already and so it's just a matter of time that everything related to privacy/crypto is next and so that's what happen here.

But for sure they will have a lot of caution here specially the news about the Bybit hack and how Lazarus group are trying to hide the loot. But I do not think that they are going to used Tornado cash though. I think Lazarus should have known better what tools or how they are going to launder or tumble it.

[bbc.reporter]

Very interesting, especially given that Lazarus Group has used them to hide their tracks just a week ago after hacking ByBit.

What are you implying? That this is now the wrong decision? This is very headshaking if this is another criticism from people in the forum because the hate the Donald and it appears that if his administration has made the correct decision, there will always be these types of questioning the decision hehehehehe.

Have you forgotten that the criminals on the hack on Bybit is Lazarus? It was a mistake by the Biden administration to sanction Tornado Cash and imprison their founders. The founders were creating software to help users have privacy in the cryptospace. They are not criminals.

I'm definitely not implying any of that. On the contrary, I'm all for this decision. I'm just impressed by how pro-crypto/maybe privacy the current administration is. It's just not something I was expecting, and I don't think many people were either?

This decision is not being procrypto or proprivacy, I reckon. This decision was made because this case will certainly create a negative precedent on software development or development of products. Also, everyone knows already that if this case will go to court the government will get nothing except a settlement. Their takedown and sanction on Tornado Cash was part of the Biden administration's anticrypto campaign. I reckon there is nothing wrong if they are anticrypto or if they do not believe in this, however, their imprisonment on the founders and sanction on Tornado Cash was never correct because the founders are not the moneylaunderers. Does it make the cellphone manufacturers in Nokia terrorists if someone uses their cellphones to detonate bombs?

[arabspaceship123]

They've removed Tornado Cash from sanctions list but one of it's founders Roman Storm goes to court on July 14. The business doesn't have sanctions but he's facing 3 charges for which means he'll get up to 45 years in prison.

conspiracy to launder money
conspiracy to violate sanctions
conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money-transmitting business

[bbc.reporter]

@arabspaceship123. This case begun under the Biden administration. Despite the removal of the sanctions and the crackdowns from the executive department, I reckon this case against Roman Storm might be difficult for the Donald's administration to stop because this is presently under the Judicial system. The separation of powers on the legislative, executive and judicial departments makes it certain that no one has totalitarian control over the government.

Roman Storm's lawyers might make an appeal because of the recent developments on regulations in America, however.

[arabspaceship123]

Trump's used his presidential pardon for releasing Ross Ulbricht from prison so he's set the example. The case against Roman Storm started under Biden's administration so if they're pursuing him it's possible he'll use his presidential pardon again after he's sentenced. 

@arabspaceship123. This case begun under the Biden administration. Despite the removal of the sanctions and the crackdowns from the executive department, I reckon this case against Roman Storm might be difficult for the Donald's administration to stop because this is presently under the Judicial system. The separation of powers on the legislative, executive and judicial departments makes it certain that no one has totalitarian control over the government.

Roman Storm's lawyers might make an appeal because of the recent developments on regulations in America, however.

[bbc.reporter]

@arabspaceship123. I predict that there will be a settlement for this case because the sleepy Biden administration has been using a tactic called regulation through enforcement and because this enforcement was based on their own executive orders and questionable use and questionable interpretation of old regulations on the cryptospace, then there might also be a strong argument that the prosecutors might remove the case.

I will certainly not be very shocked if we witness this removal within a few months because what will this prosecution be based on? The Trump administration has removed the sanctions and has implied already that the developers of Tornado Cash are not criminals.

[arabspaceship123]

Tornado Cash were removed from the sanctions list so it's strange they're going after the ppl behind it. They're saying he knew Tornado Cash laundered money & didn't stop it so they've charged him with crimes by separating Tornado Cash from it's owners. Is it possible they'll stop the case before the trial begins ?

I will certainly not be very shocked if we witness this removal within a few months because what will this prosecution be based on? The Trump administration has removed the sanctions and has implied already that the developers of Tornado Cash are not criminals.