BTC to Bitcoin ETFs - The ownership are shifting to centralized ownership

[bitLeap]

Let's not forget that more and more coins are going from individuals to centralized platforms. Private ownership and equal distribution of coins are being reduced.

Now for many people this is not a problem, because they are making good profits from the coins that are being gobbled up by the ETFs. I have no problem with that, because ownership of coins should not be restricted, but it is sad to see our coins going into centralized platforms, where people do not have control over the private keys. (The private key are controlled by the trading platform)

It feels to me, like we are selling the keys to our soul and the legacy of Satoshi Nakamoto.  

OP, I understand and agree that when you think about it ETFs gradually want to put everyone's Bitcoin in their wallets and then set the price as they see fit. Sometimes I reflect that this EFT agreement cannot be separated from the positive and negative sides, namely that we really need a big push to see the price of Bitcoin rise significantly because as small investors when we see 100% profits we think it's time to let go and hope that next year it will accumulate again . So that's what I think from a profit perspective and anyone would want to make a profit, right? While on the other hand, large institutions such as Blackrock, Fidelity, etc. who are members of the ETF proposal alliance have their own agendas, it is possible that bad news causes prices to fall as part of their strategy of taking discounts. This kind of thing is familiar and has the media they need.

In the end we ourselves surrender Satoshi's goal of freedom to those in power in the market. And I never stop to reflect on incident after incident. Remember when there was a mystery 26.9 Bitcoin sent to Satoshi's wallet? Perhaps this is a warning that Satoshi does not want to let his Bitcoin fall into the hands of institutions. I consider it a gesture that contains a hidden message from the sender.

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[coolcoinz]

gotta love how you skip a few days at the start by talking about the 12th with GBTC

Isn't the 12th that is important here? It's the day of the dump.

and then jump over some numbers then jump into dollars

The only numbers I mention are the amounts of BTC stored and the value of that BTC in dollars - totally on topic.

secondly blackrock started with $10m worth of coin(~250btc).. which by the time of the 13th had 11.5kbtc

The blue bar of your chart that represents GBTC is around 605k mark on the 13th, while the combined is close to 640k, showing that the holdings of GBTC fell down by ~15k and somehow out of the blue the other ETFs accumulated additional 20k BTC which is... yup over 2x what GBTC had sold.

But it doesn't fit your rhetoric, right? Even though you chose this chart yourself and then proceeded to bash ETFs like they're nothing, just sending money between themselves and the fact that half of their income doesn't come from GBTC is nothing, let's ignore it and move on.

[suzanne5223]

When the Bitcoin spot ETF was filed by BlackRock and other big investment firms before the was approved a lot of Btcoiners were happy about the awareness and billions of cash inflow that the BTC market would experience and never thought about the disadvantages which I once pointed out in some of the posts before the ETF was approved.
The point is there's nothing we can do about every individual investment decision about crypto cause the sad truth is that most investors only care about making a profit, not the legacy led by Satoshi but we can only enlighten them about the danger in investing in BTC spot ETF.

[GreatArkansas]

This is what I am looking forward to after the speculation of ETF approval on Bitcoin. Before ETF got approved on Bitcoin I am already speculating that we will see a huge move upward as I compare it with Gold ETF before after it got approved.

Overall, I believe that one of the biggest changes to the cryptocurrency market in coming years is the move towards centralized ownership of Bitcoin through ETFs.

[tabas]

Overall, I believe that one of the biggest changes to the cryptocurrency market in coming years is the move towards centralized ownership of Bitcoin through ETFs.

This is what we don't have control over and it is inevitable to happen. With the financial institutions trying to cope up with the newest trend and profitable market that they can dive in, they just can't ignore owning Bitcoin through their approved ETFs. While on this matter, those people that are scared of Bitcoin because they don't know how to own one or they just don't like to step in because of the news they've heard about it being part of many illegal things in the past. They're leaning towards on its trust based on these institutions because of their history and not with Bitcoin alone. That's okay and eventually, we're going to accept the fact that most of the Bitcoins that we're going to sell are going to these centralised platforms and there is nothing we can do from that. They've flowed vast amount of money to the market but a huge share and cut is also going to them later on.

[Jating]

It feels to me, like we are selling the keys to our soul and the legacy of Satoshi Nakamoto.  

I guess no one really anticipated it, or at least when Satoshi left, he didn't foreseen that his invention might progress and evolved to what we are it known by today, an asset, a store of value and form of money. And so we can't really blame anyone here, specially not Satoshi. He has still his original vision, but his invention grow so much in the last 10 years or so.

However, we can still continue with his legacy, store Bitcoin in a wallet with our control with our private key and with safe practice and we all should be good. If there is ETF then good, if not then doesn't matter at all. We have existed without this institutions, this is just another another parameter in our space that might have a positive or negative effect so we will take it like that. And we still have regulatory uncertainties, not just in the US but throughout. So there could be no shifting to centralized ownership and if there is, not might not be that big as we picture it right now.

[hatshepsut93]

Lots of coins have already been sitting on centralized platforms, mostly exchanges - did it cause any problems for the network? No it didn't. It's a good thing that Bitcoin didn't took the course of that PoS nonsense, because then we'd indeed have to worry about coins being concentrated in one hands, because each coins would also represent a vote on the network.

And we'll never see a scenario when all coins are on centralized platforms, there will always be supply of coins for p2p trading because there will always be demand too.

[franky1]

The blue bar of your chart that represents GBTC is around 605k mark on the 13th, while the combined is close to 640k, showing that the holdings of GBTC fell down by ~15k and somehow out of the blue the other ETFs accumulated additional 20k BTC which is... yup over 2x what GBTC had sold.

But it doesn't fit your rhetoric, right? Even though you chose this chart yourself and then proceeded to bash ETFs like they're nothing, just sending money between themselves and the fact that half of their income doesn't come from GBTC is nothing, let's ignore it and move on.

you actually made my point, read your own words now

grayscale had 620k btc on the 11th.. blackrock had 250btc($10m seed).. agreed.

on the 13th, we now agree.. and you just said and i just shown you...
grayscale had 605kbtc (-15k) on the 13th and blackrock was at +11k on the 13th

what you are also not aware of is grayscale PRIVATELY was holding onto an extra ~13k(in coinbase) of previous years fee earnings because previous year it was sitting at ~634k+ pre fee syphon, so they had more at play inside its sister company coinbase prime ready to trade free and clear of the gbtc shares,.. so more than you think was held within coinbase prime at launch from grayscale

so when you do the math the coins were not coming from miners on spot(not prime). but instead were majority coins from coinbase prime(from grayscale holdings)

all of which, data, math, coinholdings and images show majority came from grayscale via coinbase prime (OTC exchange and custody.. not regular spot exchange via miners).. unlike your opinion that miners were the majority funders

but lets show you the images again. just to put a line through the debate of where the majority of coins came from and went to



do you see the lines, do you see above and below the lines. do you see the patterns of where most coins came from.. finally?

now..
with ETF shuffling in coinbase prime.. they were not buying from normal public spot exchange(thus no btc push up, nor buy demand wall to prevent the down).. so when miners dumped on spot, due to them not using coinbase prime custody.. the normal spot dumped.. because.. lets make this clear:
ETF's were not demanding spot exchange coin(no buy wall) the etf's were not chewing up the miners sells to balance out the miners sell supply pressure (to prevent the dump).. there was no buy demand wall 'on spot' to eat the miners sells supply dump

oh and one more thing..
you also said that grayscale was selling direct to spot..
nope.
if you dare read the SEC filings of all ETF. they cannot just take the coin 'in-kind' to then spend as they like(for instance on spot exchanges)..
instead their custodian has to fund buyers to sell to for "incash" which coinbase did via PRIME(custody+OTC).. as all the numbers and images and data and regulations suggest

your theory of "majority from miners via spot" does not hold weight
i hope you get it now,

..
now lets fast forward to the week of a week ago, (well starting slow from mon feb 5th)
the week HAS seen grayscale slow down on its out flow whilst etf's like (but not limited to) blackrock accelerate its inflow. which has been where coins were coming from spot. then moved to prime to be locked up
which explains why the spot price went from $42k-$52k in february(monday 5th feb+)

notice the large coin grabs from spot from ~8th-11th. that then became etf lock ins as of 12th+ (during business days where the lockins can then happen. and then register on holdings list next day)  caused the spot market from the 8th+ to move from mid $40k's accelerate to become over $50k this week
(i needed to mention how the lock in data of etf holdings is delayed by a day-3days due to business practices of business hours of custody officiating and reporting policies, clarifying the finer detail before those numbers start to confuse you too)

[Mauser]

Let's not forget that more and more coins are going from individuals to centralized platforms. Private ownership and equal distribution of coins are being reduced.

Now for many people this is not a problem, because they are making good profits from the coins that are being gobbled up by the ETFs. I have no problem with that, because ownership of coins should not be restricted, but it is sad to see our coins going into centralized platforms, where people do not have control over the private keys. (The private key are controlled by the trading platform)

It feels to me, like we are selling the keys to our soul and the legacy of Satoshi Nakamoto. 

First of all, there have been quite a few institutions in the crypto world already that own large amounts of coins. It's not like companies are only now finding crypto currencies as a form of investment. ETF is just another layer for investors to participate on the crypto boom. Nobody is forcing us to sell our coins to the institutions, every investor makes their own decisions. And now with a Bitcoin price around the 50,000 USD levels there will be even people willing to take some profit and sell their coins. I don't think it's fair for us to sell our coins and then complain that big corporations are getting too many coins. It's up to all of the smaller investors to decide what we are going to do with our coins. The ETF companies are never getting their hands on the HODL investors coins. Just don't sell your soul guys, if you don't need the money. We are all free to choose what to do with our coins and our money.