Is Bitcoin Still A P2P Electronic Cash System ?.

[thecodebear]

People consider Bitcoin an investment just because it is too early in its adoption for it to be used as a currency. The natural progression of an opt-in global currency like this that goes from 1 person to global adoption is: get rich quick scheme -> high growth investment -> store of value / savings -> transactional currency.

We're out of the "get rich quick scheme" phase, which we can say probably ended after 2017. But we are still very much in the "high growth investment" phase. Probably over the next decade we'll see the huge bull and bear markets come to an end as the halving effects fade away, which will lead Bitcoin into the "store of value / savings" phase as the stigma and occurrence of giant crashes fades away.

The "transactional currency" aka P2P cash system, is the end phase. You only get to that once we start reaching mass global adoption so that enough people have Bitcoin to actually spend it with any sort of density with merchants, and also this only happens after people stop being able to say, "well if I hold onto it for another couple years it'll double in price so I may as well not spend it", and also once hundreds of millions of people have held onto Bitcoin long enough for their money to have appreciated to the point where they feel comfortable spending their financial gains. So basically, mass adoption needs to occur before people will actually use it as a currency to buy things. We're still probably 20 years away from the start of that. Like, even if say Amazon added Bitcoin payment this decade, hardly anyone is going to be using bitcoin on Amazon for the first 10-20 years, which is also why it makes sense and is also not a problem that hardly any merchants accept Bitcoin now, cuz it's still way too early for that.

While roughly the 2010s were Bitcoin's get-rich phase, roughly the 2020s will be Bitcoin's investment phase. 2030s may see Bitcoin maturing into the store of value / savings phase. And I would expect in the 2040s we'll start seeing bitcoin being used to buy things becoming fairly common.

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[SquirrelJulietGarden]

People consider Bitcoin an investment just because it is too early in its adoption for it to be used as a currency. The natural progression of an opt-in global currency like this that goes from 1 person to global adoption is: get rich quick scheme -> high growth investment -> store of value / savings -> transactional currency.

I don't need Bitcoin to be legal tender or to be officially accepted as a currency to use it.

I can use it secretly without any allowance from governments and central banks but it is better if I use it in a nation where Bitcoin is legal or at least alega. Using Bitcoin in a country where Bitcoin is illegal is risky and if I use it there, I must have some knowledge and skills to hide my identity from the public as well as government and banks.

https://coin.dance/poli/legality

Most of nations globally don't consider Bitcoin as Illegal so it is globally safe to use bitcoin.

We can use no KYC exchanges too even in nations where Bitcoin is legal tender or legal, alegal.
https://kycnot.me/

[Smack That Ace]

People consider Bitcoin an investment just because it is too early in its adoption for it to be used as a currency. The natural progression of an opt-in global currency like this that goes from 1 person to global adoption is: get rich quick scheme -> high growth investment -> store of value / savings -> transactional currency.

I don't need Bitcoin to be legal tender or to be officially accepted as a currency to use it.

I can use it secretly without any allowance from governments and central banks but it is better if I use it in a nation where Bitcoin is legal or at least alega. Using Bitcoin in a country where Bitcoin is illegal is risky and if I use it there, I must have some knowledge and skills to hide my identity from the public as well as government and banks.

https://coin.dance/poli/legality

Of course, you can use bitcoin to pay without the government accepting it, but doing so is useless because you will be using it secretly, and there will not be too many stores that will accept bitcoin for you to pay. So that will also be useless and even dangerous for you. For bitcoin to become a world currency, the role of government is indispensable and we should not deny that.

Most of nations globally don't consider Bitcoin as Illegal so it is globally safe to use bitcoin.

We can use no KYC exchanges too even in nations where Bitcoin is legal tender or legal, alegal.
https://kycnot.me/

Bitcoin has become more user-friendly in most countries, but it is being treated as a commodity, not a means of payment. If we both want bitcoin to be the world currency and we want to remain anonymous then it will never happen and we are too greedy for that ambition.

[vv181]

Bitcoin white paper is not sacred thing that ought to be religiously adhered. Note that a lot of improvements are also not strictly stated in the paper, so i rather deemed as general guideline.

Furthermore, just because the majority of the people’s interest toward making bitcoin as a form of investment or commodity does not necessarily make them could not promotes it. There is no boundary that makes people must spread the awareness thorough the transaction-related examples.

Now they all ask us for KYC thus it breaks the rule of independent third party transaction as written by the creator of Bitcoin.

All of those prerequisites alternative or option are still available. It is just the matter of user decision in regard of what pathway the would like to chooses.

[Kakmakr]

The problem is not with the "users" of the technology, but rather with the governments and their definition of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not accepted as a currency in most countries and they define Bitcoin (Crypto currencies) as a Commodity, so people cannot accept it as legal tender. 

So, if merchants and businesses are not allowed to accept it as a currency and the government allow you to trade it as a commodity, then you hodl and trade it....and where there are online opportunities to use it as a currency, then you do that. 

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

I perceive that most of us have forgotten or should i say don't understand the concept and the primary purpose of Bitcoin. I had to made this conclusion after reading several post from different communities including Bitcointalk. Most post I read were meant to promote the use of bitcoin, but failed to apply the primary concept.

Will you blame them, people are only discussing what is trending at the moment, you don't expect people to be discussing Bitcoin as a currency when they can't comfortably use it in their different regions. Why it seems Bitcoin been an investment/asset is what is trending is because those are what the centralized companies in the industry are promoting. People aren't joining Bitcoin market because they want to use it as a cureency but because they see possibility of making profits when they Invest in Bitcoin and that's why popular words like HODL and halving are trending as those are words associated with making profits from investing in Bitcoin. There was a time when those words weren't trending so that means in future other things might be trending and not Bitcoin been seen as just an investment/assets but a currency.

I think we are very lucky with satoshi's brilliance, but sadly, majority now consider bitcoin as an investment only, which makes me wonder if Bitcoin is still a p2p electronic cash system.

Bitcoin hasn't changed, it's still a decentralized P2P cash, Bitcoin hasn't and can't be centralized so it hasn't lost its value, just that the majority of the current users of Bitcoin are profit focused and not utility focus. When more companies begin to accept Bitcoin as a means of payment, the narrative will change. For now we just have to give Bitcoin some time, you don't expect a currency that's just few years old to dethrone the current fiat system that has been around for hundreds of centuries. If Bitcoin been considered an asset or investment is what is going to bring more people awareness of the currency then it shouldn't be a problem. Narrative can always change provided the true value or Bitcoin doesn't change.

[NotATether]

The problem is not with the "users" of the technology, but rather with the governments and their definition of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not accepted as a currency in most countries and they define Bitcoin (Crypto currencies) as a Commodity, so people cannot accept it as legal tender. 

Frankly, it is also the problem of new users who come in thinking that Bitcoin's only purpose is to make them rich.

I mean, you will have to spend it eventually if you want to buy anything useful with it.

But the majority of people nowadays are using it as an investment vehicle where they buy it and then cash out at some later time. But governments are a bigger problem in preventing Bitcoin from being accepted in shopping more, especially the USA.

[pinggoki]

You know OP, I'm fine with how bitcoin is used right now because if it was used like what satoshi intended and what you want it to be which is a P2P electronic cash system then be prepared for high tx fees because bitcoin isn't good with high volumes of trade and so as more people are constantly using it for that then the more the network gets congested and the only way that you can get through that is if you pay a lot so you can be first in line to have your transaction processed. What bitcoin is right now are like those expensive Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh or Magic the Gathering cards that you can subdivide into smaller pieces but still retain value although the pieces are a divided sum of the value card, I think we're better off trading pieces of that divided collectible card than having it used like a currency plus these so-called divided cards can still be used like a currency but much better.

[posi]

People consider Bitcoin an investment just because it is too early in its adoption for it to be used as a currency. The natural progression of an opt-in global currency like this that goes from 1 person to global adoption is: get rich quick scheme -> high growth investment -> store of value / savings -> transactional currency.

.

What data, what assets do you rely on to believe that this pattern will happen with bitcoin? Maybe you are one of the few people who consider bitcoin a currency like what Satoshi said in bitcoin's whitepaper, but I want to tell you that bitcoin is unlikely to become the world's currency. For one simple reason, no government will accept something they cannot control as a substitute for the fiat currency they create. The chance of bitcoin becoming a world currency has also disappeared as they are planning to create their own CBDC. they are looking to control us more, whereas bitcoin is decentralized, do you think they will let that happen?

[EluguHcman]

In my country, to use bitcoin for transaction is almost nonexistent, but you can easily convert your bitcoin to fiat and spend and  you can easily convert your fiat to bitcoin. I have only been able to use bitcoin to make cross border transactions. I have not used it locally before because I do not see people accepting it.

I can relate to your point of view because despites the banned and suspensions of Bitcoin and other AltCoins in some countries, that still doesn't hinder nor bridges the coins transactions as long it is a P2P and the ability of the decentralized of the digital currency.
At points of such sceneros, the idea reasons for the coins transactions is primarily aimed to make profits and not the alternative potentials for transitional fiat.

[DanWalker]

In my country, to use bitcoin for transaction is almost nonexistent, but you can easily convert your bitcoin to fiat and spend and  you can easily convert your fiat to bitcoin. I have only been able to use bitcoin to make cross border transactions. I have not used it locally before because I do not see people accepting it.

I can relate to your point of view because despites the banned and suspensions of Bitcoin and other AltCoins in some countries, that still doesn't hinder nor bridges the coins transactions as long it is a P2P and the ability of the decentralized of the digital currency.
At points of such sceneros, the idea reasons for the coins transactions is primarily aimed to make profits and not the alternative potentials for transitional fiat.

Digital currencies or cryptocurrencies are almost completely decentralized, with only bitcoin being the only decentralized currency on the market. Furthermore, there are not too many countries that ban bitcoin, most governments allow their people to use bitcoin as a commodity and asset, not as a payment method. What Charles-Tim and you are saying is that bitcoin only serves as a commodity and is allowed in most countries. But to be able to use bitcoin directly for payment and without converting to fiat, there are very few countries that allow it.

[Z-tight]

What data, what assets do you rely on to believe that this pattern will happen with bitcoin? Maybe you are one of the few people who consider bitcoin a currency like what Satoshi said in bitcoin's whitepaper, but I want to tell you that bitcoin is unlikely to become the world's currency.

BTC wasn't created to be the world's reserve currency or anything like that, but you are wrong when you say BTC isn't a currency, surely it is fungible and can be used as a medium of exchange. It is worth mentioning that BTC doesn't have to even be a legal tender, as long as the government of a country doesn't place a ban on it, it can be accepted by merchants if they wish to and you can use it as a medium of exchange in places that accept it.

[posi]

What data, what assets do you rely on to believe that this pattern will happen with bitcoin? Maybe you are one of the few people who consider bitcoin a currency like what Satoshi said in bitcoin's whitepaper, but I want to tell you that bitcoin is unlikely to become the world's currency.

BTC wasn't created to be the world's reserve currency or anything like that, but you are wrong when you say BTC isn't a currency, surely it is fungible and can be used as a medium of exchange. It is worth mentioning that BTC doesn't have to even be a legal tender, as long as the government of a country doesn't place a ban on it, it can be accepted by merchants if they wish to and you can use it as a medium of exchange in places that accept it.

If you just need an agreement and consent from the seller and the buyer then you can use gold, silver or any asset as long as both parties agree it can be used as a means of payment, not just bitcoins. What I'm trying to say is that government legitimacy for bitcoin, that's really hard to achieve and we need to accept that. I'm not pessimistic but I don't think bitcoin will have any chance of becoming a payment method replacing fiat in the future, bitcoin is more suitable as an asset.

[bitgolden]

BTC wasn't created to be the world's reserve currency or anything like that, but you are wrong when you say BTC isn't a currency, surely it is fungible and can be used as a medium of exchange. It is worth mentioning that BTC doesn't have to even be a legal tender, as long as the government of a country doesn't place a ban on it, it can be accepted by merchants if they wish to and you can use it as a medium of exchange in places that accept it.

If you just need an agreement and consent from the seller and the buyer then you can use gold, silver or any asset as long as both parties agree it can be used as a means of payment, not just bitcoins. What I'm trying to say is that government legitimacy for bitcoin, that's really hard to achieve and we need to accept that. I'm not pessimistic but I don't think bitcoin will have any chance of becoming a payment method replacing fiat in the future, bitcoin is more suitable as an asset.

I do not think that we "need" that, it would be good to have it but we do not really need it. We could end up with something like that which could make bitcoin go up a lot and that would not be a bad idea but I personally believe that it's not a must. Bitcoin right now is still a great p2p electronic cash system and we are changing bitcoin from one person to another easily all the time, it should be very important to keep that in mind. I get that it may not be all that great this current moment but that doesn't change the fact that we can't really make it change all that much.

We should be talking about how we can use it more instead of just invest into it, and that is a bit more rare concept at the moment. People do not use it like a currency, they do invest into it like it's gold, but they do not use it like a currency, we need to make sure that there are a lot more people who are investing into it, and that would be a lot better for sure.

[Blitzboy]

People consider Bitcoin an investment just because it is too early in its adoption for it to be used as a currency. The natural progression of an opt-in global currency like this that goes from 1 person to global adoption is: get rich quick scheme -> high growth investment -> store of value / savings -> transactional currency.

We're out of the "get rich quick scheme" phase, which we can say probably ended after 2017. But we are still very much in the "high growth investment" phase. Probably over the next decade we'll see the huge bull and bear markets come to an end as the halving effects fade away, which will lead Bitcoin into the "store of value / savings" phase as the stigma and occurrence of giant crashes fades away.

The "transactional currency" aka P2P cash system, is the end phase. You only get to that once we start reaching mass global adoption so that enough people have Bitcoin to actually spend it with any sort of density with merchants, and also this only happens after people stop being able to say, "well if I hold onto it for another couple years it'll double in price so I may as well not spend it", and also once hundreds of millions of people have held onto Bitcoin long enough for their money to have appreciated to the point where they feel comfortable spending their financial gains. So basically, mass adoption needs to occur before people will actually use it as a currency to buy things. We're still probably 20 years away from the start of that. Like, even if say Amazon added Bitcoin payment this decade, hardly anyone is going to be using bitcoin on Amazon for the first 10-20 years, which is also why it makes sense and is also not a problem that hardly any merchants accept Bitcoin now, cuz it's still way too early for that.

While roughly the 2010s were Bitcoin's get-rich phase, roughly the 2020s will be Bitcoin's investment phase. 2030s may see Bitcoin maturing into the store of value / savings phase. And I would expect in the 2040s we'll start seeing bitcoin being used to buy things becoming fairly common.

Assuming that Bitcoin is no longer just a "get rich quick scheme" is too simple. Opportunism is still common because the market is volatile and based on guesswork. Looking closely at how technology progress, changes in regulations, and economic shifts affect each other is needed to break down the timeline you suggest.

There are too many factors to consider when arguing that Bitcoin will become a "transactional currency" in a straight line, following your planned stages. Dealing with the complicated factors that could shorten or lengthen this road is very important. Because global financial systems and regulatory settings change all the time, your timeline for mass adoption in 20 years is based on speculation and doesnt take that into account enough.

[Silberman]

...

I think we are very lucky with satoshi's brilliance, but sadly, majority now consider bitcoin as an investment only, which makes me wonder if Bitcoin is still a p2p electronic cash system.

My opinion...

Can you still use bitcoin as described on the whitepaper? Of course you can, look you cannot force people to use their belongings a certain way just because you do not like it, people are free to use their bitcoin as they see fit, even in ways that go completely against the spirit of bitcoin, like those that store their coins for the long term on an exchange, we try to discourage that behavior as they will lose everything if the exchange goes down, but at the end each person is free to use their own property as they want, besides there is enough people using bitcoin to transact with each other and buy all kind of stuff online, so this does not worries me at all.

[GiftedMAN]

What data, what assets do you rely on to believe that this pattern will happen with bitcoin? Maybe you are one of the few people who consider bitcoin a currency like what Satoshi said in bitcoin's whitepaper, but I want to tell you that bitcoin is unlikely to become the world's currency.

BTC wasn't created to be the world's reserve currency or anything like that, but you are wrong when you say BTC isn't a currency, surely it is fungible and can be used as a medium of exchange. It is worth mentioning that BTC doesn't have to even be a legal tender, as long as the government of a country doesn't place a ban on it, it can be accepted by merchants if they wish to and you can use it as a medium of exchange in places that accept it.

Bitcoin is a currency and anybody that do not support that should leave argument and face reality. Bitcoin was created to be a digital currency that people can use for business transactions and payment of services. If we look at today, we can see that Bitcoin is serving it purposes even though the government are not in full support of it. It is certain that with time, Bitcoin is going to be recognized digital currency by the world government for business transactions and service payment. It is only going to take a little while for this to come through with amazing dominance.