Blackrock ETF Discussion

[bbc.reporter]

What is Blackrock trying to imply or what might they have on their bitcoin investment roadmap? The skeptical me thinks that they want more control over the cryptospace if they are to invest billions of dollars on this.

It also appears that this article is mistaken. Blackrock has an investment on USDC through being an investor on USDC's issuer Circle. To control the stablecoin market is to control much the inflows and outflows of the cryptospace.



In a recent move by BlackRock Inc., a leading asset manager, the firm has highlighted the potential risks stablecoins pose to the Bitcoin market in its filing for a US spot Bitcoin ETF. This disclosure, part of a public document submitted to regulators, brings forth the complexities and challenges in the evolving cryptocurrency landscape.

BlackRock’s document underscores the indirect exposure to stablecoins, specifically mentioning Tether USD (USDT) and Circle USD (USDC). Despite not investing in these digital assets, the firm acknowledges their significant impact on Bitcoin and other digital asset markets. Interestingly, the document details the nature of stablecoins, emphasizing their intention to maintain a stable market value, a goal that has recently seen challenges.

Source https://coingape.com/blackrock-inc-spotlights-stablecoin-risks-in-us-bitcoin-etf-filing/

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[BALIK]

What is Blackrock trying to imply or what might they have on their bitcoin investment roadmap? The skeptical me thinks that they want more control over the cryptospace if they are to invest billions of dollars on this.

For a potential market like cryptocurrency and scarce assets like bitcoin, there is no one who would not want more control. Even legislative agencies such as the SEC or CFTC are competing for the right to manage and control this potential industry. Therefore, you do not need to doubt or be too surprised when large investment funds are ambitious to gain more control of this market. Therefore, while ETFs are welcomed by many people, there are also many people who are not satisfied. Because once ETFs are approved and large investment funds enter the market, we will gradually lose our freedom and be more controlled.

[wxa7115]

For a potential market like cryptocurrency and scarce assets like bitcoin, there is no one who would not want more control. Even legislative agencies such as the SEC or CFTC are competing for the right to manage and control this potential industry. Therefore, you do not need to doubt or be too surprised when large investment funds are ambitious to gain more control of this market. Therefore, while ETFs are welcomed by many people, there are also many people who are not satisfied. Because once ETFs are approved and large investment funds enter the market, we will gradually lose our freedom and be more controlled.

Without a doubt the market is changing and we no longer have the same privacy we had a few years ago, however this is only a point of contention for those that consider bitcoin to be more than just another way to make some money and think of it as a tool to regain their freedoms back.

So for the majority of the traders losing their privacy is not real a motive of concern, and they are willing to give it away as long as they can get the profits they are looking for.

[kingvirtus09]

The step made by Blackrock in the Bitcoin ETF application in DTCCC is undeniable; it really had an impact on the rise of the price value of Bitcoin. And because of this, many investors really hope that this Blackrock ETF will be approved in Sec.

But, even so, there is still no guarantee that it will be approved because, based on the history that we know, most or all applications are rejected. And this time in Blackrock, they will probably do delaying tactics here, for sure, as they are doing here currently.

[Zlantann]

Without a doubt the market is changing and we no longer have the same privacy we had a few years ago, however this is only a point of contention for those that consider bitcoin to be more than just another way to make some money and think of it as a tool to regain their freedoms back.

So for the majority of the traders losing their privacy is not real a motive of concern, and they are willing to give it away as long as they can get the profits they are looking for.

The crypto space is becoming more dynamic and complex. A few years ago nobody thought that multibillion-dollar institutions would be scrambling to have a share in the Bitcoin space. Now many powerful players are seeking to control some segments of the market. The market is a free one so anyone has the right to take advantage of the opportunities that Bitcoin offers. From all indications, the market will get more centralized because these agencies and investors will have the power to control the market especially if the spot Bitcoin ETF is approved.

For now, nobody can stop the approval of these ETF applications except the SEC, which means there is nothing you or I can do to stop this centralization. But we can always protect our freedom and privacy through available means. These investors are putting in more money in the sector which has affected the price of Bitcoin positively, we will take advantage of it to make some profit but I will never hand over my keys to these institutional middlemen.

[bbc.reporter]

What is Blackrock trying to imply or what might they have on their bitcoin investment roadmap? The skeptical me thinks that they want more control over the cryptospace if they are to invest billions of dollars on this.

For a potential market like cryptocurrency and scarce assets like bitcoin, there is no one who would not want more control. Even legislative agencies such as the SEC or CFTC are competing for the right to manage and control this potential industry. Therefore, you do not need to doubt or be too surprised when large investment funds are ambitious to gain more control of this market. Therefore, while ETFs are welcomed by many people, there are also many people who are not satisfied. Because once ETFs are approved and large investment funds enter the market, we will gradually lose our freedom and be more controlled.

I very much disagree and it appears that you are not trying to think more deeply into what type of a company this Blackrock is. This is not only about the ETF, it is also about the control stablecoin inflows and outflows. If only one firm controls much of these inflows and outflows, this firm will be something similar to Immortan Joe of the movie Mad Max: Fury Road, where he controls the water supply hehehehehee.

[GreatArkansas]

(....)
But, even so, there is still no guarantee that it will be approved because, based on the history that we know, most or all applications are rejected. And this time in Blackrock, they will probably do delaying tactics here, for sure, as they are doing here currently.

Yep, I agree, with or without ETF, we must continue. I believe that Bitcoin seems to have become used to ETF rejections in the U.S. Over time it has become normal.
So for me, it's fine. But if it is approved, much better because ETF will make Bitcoin more popular and possibly gain more volume.

[bbc.reporter]

Does everyone remember the intern who mistakenly posted that Blackrock's ETF was already approved by the SEC and caused a pump? Heheheh I just remembered after witnessing bitcoin on $40k.

In any case, the odds for Blackrock's approval might go higher after the news that it has met with the SEC. And it appears that they have also made some changes in some of the iterations in their application to please uncle Gary.



BlackRock has submitted revisions to its spot Bitcoin ETF application to the SEC in an attempt to allay the regulator’s concerns over market manipulation and broker-dealer registrations, according to meeting minutes between the asset manager and the SEC’s Division of Trading and Markets dated Nov. 28, 2023.

BlackRock’s proposed solution modifies the current in-kind redemption model that would have the offshore market maker entity prepay cash to the registered broker-dealer entity prior to the delivery of ETF shares during the redemption process. This “prepaid model” aims to isolate the broker-dealer on its balance sheet from risks associated with transferring Bitcoin to the market maker.

Additionally, BlackRock argues that retaining an in-kind structure, even with alterations, provides benefits over shifting to a cash redemption method, including lower transaction costs, simpler operations, and resistance against manipulation schemes. The asset manager believes addressing the balance sheet and broker-dealer registration dependencies directly through adjusted timing and custody transfers allows the Bitcoin ETF application to clear regulatory procedures while optimizing shareholder incentives.

Source https://cryptoslate.com/blackrock-adjusts-proposed-spot-bitcoin-etf-structure-to-allay-sec-concerns/


The market certainly is showing that the approval for the ETF is almost a certainty. However, if approved, will the market continue to pump higher or will it react similar to sell the news and dump?

[thecodebear]

The market certainly is showing that the approval for the ETF is almost a certainty. However, if approved, will the market continue to pump higher or will it react similar to sell the news and dump?

Just want to point out the obvious: the market has no say in an ETF getting approved. That is up to the SEC. The market is HOPING for an approval, not showing anything about the likelihood of approval. Nothing about what the market is doing makes an ETF approval an almost certainty, or anything else. The market reacts, it does not make the rules. It is certainly very possible the SEC continues to reject everything and everyone just hoping and assuming an ETF would get approved soon would be wrong.

It terms of the market reaction is an ETF does indeed get approval at some point next year...I expect the immediate reaction would be a large spike upwards, perhaps multiple thousands of dollars, followed by the inrush of people trying to crash the price or simply just taking profit on the spike. So I think it'd go up a bunch and then go down a bunch, but ultimately when the dust cleared over a few days the price would settle a good amount higher than where it started. Then of course when an ETF actually starts operating the ETF will likely be buying up several billion dollars of Bitcoin in a matter of weeks so that will cause another strong surge.

[TheUltraElite]

It terms of the market reaction is an ETF does indeed get approval at some point next year...I expect the immediate reaction would be a large spike upwards, perhaps multiple thousands of dollars, followed by the inrush of people trying to crash the price or simply just taking profit on the spike.

The market is hoping for good news and that is the reason of the sudden spikes in price.

It is currently the traders wet dream to see ETF approval because then only the next all time high will be reached. I say, keep the sell orders ready for the same - it might be possible by the next year. The market would assume new support levels if it does go through though and it will be higher than 35k USD for sure.

So in the best interest, wait it out and keep both buy and sell orders placed. Who knows suddenly one night it might get approved.

[Z-tight]

The market certainly is showing that the approval for the ETF is almost a certainty. However, if approved, will the market continue to pump higher or will it react similar to sell the news and dump?

How is the market showing that, maybe you mean that so many people think an approval is on its way, because from what i have been reading lately, so many bitcoiners think that an approval is a matter of when and not if. If a spot etf is approved in the U.S., it would be the first ever to be approved in the U.S. market, so we cannot predict how the market will react based on past events, because there is none, but people can't help but believe that there will be a pump in the price of BTC.

When we talk about centralized exchanges, so many of us talk about not your keys, not your keys, but why is the case with etf's different? I don't see too many people bringing up that phrase when we mention spot etf's.

[bbc.reporter]

@thecodebear, @Z-tight. You are correct! It is not the market that decides if the ETF gets approved or not, it is the SEC. I only said that the market speculation is showing that there are more people who are optimistic on the approval. Also, the question I was asking is if the speculators are correct and the ETF is approved, will this be a sell the news type of occurence or will bitcoin continue to pump?

[adaseb]

I don’t think it’s the retail traders that are causing all this bull moves. Look at coinbase today, someone market bought like 500 BTC and it touched $45000 only on that exchange. It seems there is a huge demand in short time and almost no supply, at least right now.

Look at Bitmex open interest, last week at $38K someone opened a $200M long. This is obviously some fund and not a retail trader. We also had that weekend pump last time. I assumed it would fade but it was a real move. There is also Tether and every week about $1B is added to the crypto markets.

[franky1]

I don’t think it’s the retail traders that are causing all this bull moves. Look at coinbase today, someone market bought like 500 BTC and it touched $45000 only on that exchange. It seems there is a huge demand in short time and almost no supply, at least right now.

Look at Bitmex open interest, last week at $38K someone opened a $200M long. This is obviously some fund and not a retail trader. We also had that weekend pump last time. I assumed it would fade but it was a real move. There is also Tether and every week about $1B is added to the crypto markets.

over the last week. many futures whale were shorting to try to keep the price under $39k.. their contracts completed and won. so they didnt need to play with an extra bundle of coin on spot market to keep it down. so the natural market then bought.. now there are some selling at $45k and wanting to buy in cheaper.

one thing i did notice was last years december had many futures contracts for 1 month, 14 day, 7day lengths. where as this year there are many that are just 7day, 2day, 1 day lengths

[bbc.reporter]

I don’t think it’s the retail traders that are causing all this bull moves. Look at coinbase today, someone market bought like 500 BTC and it touched $45000 only on that exchange. It seems there is a huge demand in short time and almost no supply, at least right now.

Look at Bitmex open interest, last week at $38K someone opened a $200M long. This is obviously some fund and not a retail trader. We also had that weekend pump last time. I assumed it would fade but it was a real move. There is also Tether and every week about $1B is added to the crypto markets.

Is that spot buying or futures buying? If it is futures buying then we might be in this time of the pump where the market might have become overleveraged. These traders might need to close their trades if the pump does not continue or they might get liquidated if the market dumps and causes a cascade of liquidations.

[barto123]

It is very interesting that Blackrock ETF, which was on DTCC's site since August, suddenly caused so much speculation yesterday and then was taken off the site. What do you guys think? Is an ETF coming soon? How come no one took notice of DTCC's site until yesterday?

https://www.coinfeeds.io/daily-trending-news/clarifying-blackrock-bitcoin-etf-speculation

I think people should stop focusing on ETF's - The main problem here: the money is being used as a tool of enslavement. The money is broken by design.

Do you really want to give more legitimacy to these massive corporations who pull the strings of government worldwide? it's clearly one big club. There's a global war on cash leading to CBDC's. Clearly an agenda to move world into a digital prison.

Bitcoin was born with anarchists, libertarians, cyberpunks, people who want freedom. These days it's associated with number go up, hodl - making money.  It's great that it's grown to the size it has, but it's become too mainstream and focused on getting rich instead of freedom, which was satoshi's initial intent.

It's still a great tool for store of value, however it's lost it's freedom aspect. All this talk of ETF's, regulations etc makes me cringe. Hence why I'm on board with Monero community, because they don't care what exchange gets delisted. They don't care about institutional money. The whole point is to avoid it. The real value IMO is remaining out of the mainstream criminal organizations.

[DeathAngel]

BlackRock, Bitwise File Updated Applications for Spot Bitcoin ETF

BlackRock’s amended filing included clarifications on topics such as the Trust’s structure and potential regulatory impacts on it.

https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/12/05/blackrock-bitwise-file-updated-application-for-spot-bitcoin-etf/amp/