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Question: Should signatures be considered as advertisements or personal endorsements? (Assuming that legitimacy has been checked).
Advertisement only: The wearer is not personally endorsing/encouraging you to use the service.
Personal Endorsement: The wearer supports the advertised service, and the advertised service industry.

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Author Topic: Question about signature campaigns - paid advertising, or personal endorsements?  (Read 394 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (1 post by 1+ user deleted.)
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October 26, 2023, 08:56:50 PM
 #21

If a bitcointalk user is wearing a paid signature for a service, should readers view them as either personal endorsements from that bitcointalk user?

What is your opinion?
I wouldn't call it a "personal endorsement" but then again, why would you use your signature space to advertise something you don't trust or believe in? Like advertising A bitcoin mixer or a gambling platform, yet you wouldn't ever use it in any scenario. To me, that's more like shilling (to talk about or describe someone or something in a favorable way because you are being paid to do it - source). Especially for us Bitcoiners, who have a chance to test out and use these platforms when they just get launched.

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October 26, 2023, 09:10:21 PM
Last edit: October 26, 2023, 09:38:14 PM by 1miau
 #22

Any further discussion that is not addressing the thread topic will be deleted.
Okay, so that's why it's self-moderated here?  Cheesy

Self-moderation is fine to prevent rule-breaking posts, to improve posting quality by deleting pyramid quotes or spelling mistakes and ask people to post it again without pyramid quotes, spelling mistakes etc. or to delete one- or two-liner shitposts or off-topic troll spam. That's where self-moderation is fine. But not to stifle valid arguments...  Roll Eyes


I have decided to leave 1mau's post here as it serves as a good example of someone who directly disrespected the rules of the topic.
Okay, so because my reply is valid and is adding the necessary context regarding your strange poll, it "disrespected the rules of the topic".  Roll Eyes
LOL

This thread is self moderated as it is for opinions on this topic only and I'd like to keep it that way. I don't want to censor people though, so I posts that are not providing an opinion or providing relevant value to the conversation will be removed and quoted in the second post.
I don't see how I'm violating your simple rules.  Cheesy


This thread is helping the community clear blur lines. Disrespecting that, as 1mau has, is disrespecting not just me, but the natural process that makes this community better.
My reply is helping the community to get some context regarding your strange poll and therefore not violating any rule here.

And my name is 1miau.  Wink





What is wrong with you, honestly? Why are you bringing that conversation here when it has been said already that those posts would be deleted?

Just post your opinion like everyone else and continue your opinions about me in the other thread, where they belong.
Wow, no context allowed here?  Cheesy
Why so, maybe some people will read up on the issue and you don't like it, that people are getting the full picture here?


The purpose of this thread is to clarify two opinions. Right now, yours is outvoted. So you can post that image all you want, it means nothing, as you're painting a picture that is, according to the current vote, invalid.
Your misleading, out-of-context poll proves exactly nothing about our discussion.  Cheesy


I have coins.game in my signature as they're legit (according to my due diligence). I don't have to be a gambler to be a part of that campaign, or any gambling campaign.
But according to your post, gambling is:

No one should be a merit source for one of the most unethical boards/sections of this forum. There is no shortage of merit for the amount of quality/merit worthy posts in the gambling section; which is very little in comparison to other, more important and non capitalistic boards of the forum.

I also think merits should not be focused on posts in this section. It does not positively contribute to the Bitcoin economy. It only concentrates wealth to unethical network participants who are exploring other users with unfair odds, ridiculous terms of service, extensive and intrusive kyc checks to ban accounts, questionable provably fair claims, and more.


Is your way of discrediting this thread bringing that discussion here?
Sorry for bringing some context regarding your topic.  Cheesy


I should delete your post, since you've completely disrespected the rules of the thread. So disappointing.
The only post violating a rule here is your post (archive):

1. Such posts as "SELL SELL SELL", "I agree", "+1", "Support", "Watching", "Interesting", "LOL", "SCAM", "LEGIT", "FAKE", other one word posts, posts consisting mostly of swearing, quote pyramids, useless introduction threads, threads about a topic already recently discussed in several other threads.

And no valid post from me will get deleted here or I'll give you a neutral trust about your gambling "incident" right on your profile that signature campaign managers will see that right away.  Wink

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October 26, 2023, 09:19:25 PM
Last edit: October 27, 2023, 08:29:40 AM by BenCodie
 #23

By definition, endorsements can be considered a form of advertising. Your forum signature space is your personal territory, and you're free to put whatever you like there, based on your own judgment. Whether you call it advertising or endorsement, the key factor is your personal moral perspective. Would you be okay with promoting something you'd never use yourself? If your answer is yes, it might suggest lower moral standards. If your answer is no, then whether it's an endorsement or another advertising form doesn't really change the ethical aspect.


By the way, your poll is still a bit misleading. Endorsing and encouraging are not the same thing. Even if I were to endorse a brand or service, it doesn't mean I would encourage everyone to use it.

Fixed it. Changed it to

Personal endorsement: The user supports the advertised service and the advertised service industry.

To endorse is to support, so it's accurately worded now. My apologies

If anyone wants me to reset the poll, following this change, let me know by PM or in your next post.

As for lower moral standard....I disagree with that, presumably. I think what truly represents low moral standard, is compromising your beliefs by posting how a campaign wants you to post, so that you can join the campaign. Imagine how many people are actually not pro-gambling but wearing the sig and joining the culture because it is a good opportunity? That is lower moral standard.

Having a paid ad while continuing to represent yourself and your beliefs with no compromise, that is hardly lower moral standard, at least that's how I see it.

I vote for advertisement only.

There's no obligation for the users to try or use the project that they use in their signature. You're one of the example, you wore a gambling signature, but you have a view if gambling is bad and you're not encourage people to gamble. It sounds like a hypocrite, but isn't that the campaign manager's risk? he know you're not support gambling, but he want to accept you in gambling project. He can easily not to accept you if he feel you're not the right person or a threat for the project.

Thank you. I agree.
My opinion on gambling is clear, I think it's a profit industry only. Profit by basically, any means
It is up to the campaign manager to decide if the paid ad is still suitable. Based on my post qualify, style, etc.

Any further discussion that is not addressing the thread topic will be deleted.
Okay, so that's why it's self-moderated here?  Cheesy

Self-moderation is fine to prevent rule-breaking posts, to improve posting quality by deleting pyramid quotes or spelling mistakes and ask people to post it again without pyramid quotes, spelling mistakes etc. or to delete one- or two-liner shitposts or off-topic troll spam. That's where self-moderation is fine. But not to stifle valid arguments...  Roll Eyes


I have decided to leave 1mau's post here as it serves as a good example of someone who directly disrespected the rules of the topic.
Okay, so because my reply is valid and is adding the necessary context regarding your strange poll, it "disrespected the rules of the topic".  Roll Eyes
LOL

This thread is self moderated as it is for opinions on this topic only and I'd like to keep it that way. I don't want to censor people though, so I posts that are not providing an opinion or providing relevant value to the conversation will be removed and quoted in the second post.
I don't see how I'm violating your simple rules.  Cheesy


This thread is helping the community clear blur lines. Disrespecting that, as 1mau has, is disrespecting not just me, but the natural process that makes this community better.
My reply is helping the community to get some context regarding your strange poll and therefore not violating any rule here.

And my name is 1miau.  Wink





What is wrong with you, honestly? Why are you bringing that conversation here when it has been said already that those posts would be deleted?

Just post your opinion like everyone else and continue your opinions about me in the other thread, where they belong.
Wow, no context allowed here?  Cheesy
Why so, maybe some people will read up on the issue and you don't like it, that people are getting the full picture here?


The purpose of this thread is to clarify two opinions. Right now, yours is outvoted. So you can post that image all you want, it means nothing, as you're painting a picture that is, according to the current vote, invalid.
Your misleading, out-of-context poll proves exactly nothing about our discussion.  Cheesy


I have coins.game in my signature as they're legit (according to my due diligence). I don't have to be a gambler to be a part of that campaign, or any gambling campaign.
But according to your post, gambling is:

No one should be a merit source for one of the most unethical boards/sections of this forum. There is no shortage of merit for the amount of quality/merit worthy posts in the gambling section; which is very little in comparison to other, more important and non capitalistic boards of the forum.

I also think merits should not be focused on posts in this section. It does not positively contribute to the Bitcoin economy. It only concentrates wealth to unethical network participants who are exploring other users with unfair odds, ridiculous terms of service, extensive and intrusive kyc checks to ban accounts, questionable provably fair claims, and more.


Is your way of discrediting this thread bringing that discussion here?
Sorry for bringing some context regarding your topic.  Cheesy


I should delete your post, since you've completely disrespected the rules of the thread. So disappointing.
The only post violating a rule here is your post:

1. Such posts as "SELL SELL SELL", "I agree", "+1", "Support", "Watching", "Interesting", "LOL", "SCAM", "LEGIT", "FAKE", other one word posts, posts consisting mostly of swearing, quote pyramids, useless introduction threads, threads about a topic already recently discussed in several other threads.

And no valid post from me will get deleted here or I'll give you a neutral trust about your gambling "incident" right on your profile that signature campaign managers will see that right away.  Wink

I won't delete this post. But I'm not responding to it.

I fixed your complaint about "encouraging" in my last post.

Otherwise, ignoring the rest of your post. You're just causing drama at this point.
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October 27, 2023, 05:37:24 AM
 #24


Personally, i try to only join signature campaigns for products i use myself (maybe with the exception of services that are already trusted in the community by the time i join the campaign)... This was the case for chipmixer, and it's the case for my current signature. It's possible they turn scam after i've tested/used them, and in this case it's my responsability to remove the signature as soon as i'm aware of the problems with the service in my signature space.

If there were no campaigns that you use for yourself for more than 1 year but there were legitimate ones with no complaints that would accept you, what would you do?


Well... I'm actually in a case like that right now, the signature i'm wearing now hasn't been around for more than a year, but i did check them out and used them (a couple of times actually, spread over a couple of weeks), there are no complaints, their profit model seems ok so they don't have to scam to make money, and they did accept me Smiley

So, i don't think there's a cutoff for how long the service should be online before i'd join a signature campaign. New services deserve some promotion to, as long as i can check them out and test them, there are no big red flags popping up in my mind and there are no valid scam accusations that i'm aware of.

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October 27, 2023, 08:50:31 AM
 #25


Personally, i try to only join signature campaigns for products i use myself (maybe with the exception of services that are already trusted in the community by the time i join the campaign)... This was the case for chipmixer, and it's the case for my current signature. It's possible they turn scam after i've tested/used them, and in this case it's my responsability to remove the signature as soon as i'm aware of the problems with the service in my signature space.

If there were no campaigns that you use for yourself for more than 1 year but there were legitimate ones with no complaints that would accept you, what would you do?


Well... I'm actually in a case like that right now, the signature i'm wearing now hasn't been around for more than a year, but i did check them out and used them (a couple of times actually, spread over a couple of weeks), there are no complaints, their profit model seems ok so they don't have to scam to make money, and they did accept me Smiley

So, i don't think there's a cutoff for how long the service should be online before i'd join a signature campaign. New services deserve some promotion to, as long as i can check them out and test them, there are no big red flags popping up in my mind and there are no valid scam accusations that i'm aware of.

That's appropriate. You checked them out, they're working fine at the moment, their business model is fine to you.

Everything else is fine.

Let's bring beliefs into this.

Let's say you are a very analytical person. You don't like mixers because they have a high scam rate. You don't like casinos because they exploit people's inherent vulnerability (greed), but whether you are in a campaign or not makes no difference in effecting these industries.

If it's been more than a year, you like the forum, and you like the bonus of being a part of a campaign ... Would you join one anyway, despite you not liking mixers and casinos? Of course, considering that beliefs aside, the advertised service has no legitimate scam accusations.

It's a personalized question to my dilemma, and I'm only asking you because I respect your opinion based on your posts here (and elsewhere). You don't have to answer if you don't want to, and you can PM me the answer if that is more comfortable for you.
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October 27, 2023, 09:17:32 AM
 #26

When you are paid by a certain company, you are indirectly the person representing that company in public. You should not spit on your own plate of rice while you still want to eat it, unless your rice is stale and poisonous. So you should not promote anything that you don't actually want to support, because after all you are a representative of those who are paid in full to attract the attention of other people using their services.

If you do not support gambling for any reason, do not promote gambling campaigns. It's that simple.  Wink

It is not something very difficult to understand here, you all have said it the better way, what i see is that participating in a signature campaign is by choice and personal decision, we can choose to promote any organizations all because they are paying us and we also think they are offering the best service that deserves our own promotional efforts, like in the case of mixers, only the staffs of this forum were exempted to promote such but aside that, they can promote any other organizations, members have no restriction on promoting any signature campaign including bounties as long as we wanted to, it's not by force going against ones wish all because of promoting another ones business.



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October 27, 2023, 09:21:53 AM
Merited by FatFork (1)
 #27

Truth be told, i probably wouldn't join a campaign offering a service i didn't like. In the last (many) years, I've only promoted chipmixer and exch, and i can honestly say i liked them both. There might be a bit of a grey area where it's harder to draw a line: there might be goods or services you don't particularly like, but you don't dislike them either. In that case, i have no idear what i would do.

Off course, my beliefs might be different from other's, for example when it comes to mixers: i believe privacy tools are an important part of our ecosystem. A mixer could be used by honest people to increase their anonymity but also by criminals to launder money. I don't believe that one should prohibit such services just because bad people could also use them, so i feel ok promoting them (even tough recently i did have the chance of getting into a higher paying mixer campaign, but i didn't take it because my beliefs do not correspond with the beliefs of the lawmakers in my country, and even tough i think their views on this matter are nonsense, i still try to follow the law so i don't end up with legal problems in the future).

When it comes to casino's, i'm a bit torn... I know very little about gambling, i also know some people are addicted, but on the other hand it's not up to me to make sure an adult doesn't get confronted with a legal service they're addicted to.
Now, i don't have to make a decision about promoting gambling anyway, since (as i mentioned), i don't know enough about gambling to make an informed decision about whether or not a casino is legit, so at the moment i won't promote them anyways (so i'm not confronted with the ethical aspect)

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October 27, 2023, 12:38:35 PM
 #28

If a bitcointalk user is wearing a paid signature for a service, should readers view them as either personal endorsements from that bitcointalk user?

What is your opinion?

My opinion:
The advertisement should be considered as a paid advertisement, not a personal endorsement from the wearer.
However, users should be responsible for ensuring that the signature they are wearing is not a scam.
Similarly, readers should do their own research & due diligence before using any service, including ones within paid advertisements/signatures.
If the project turns out to be fraudulent, other forum members will warn the user about this and ask him to remove the signature. But if a forum member has an advertising signature, then he must follow the project.
I fully support the project that is in my signature, because I have been using it for more than 6 years. This project is useful for the crypto community, but I will never support a gambling project, because such projects make gambling people poor.

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..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
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