Bitcoin Vs Monero - Privacy as the world becomes more dystopian

[Easteregg69]

I sold my Dash when Monero got delisted. Just saying. Monero was delisted after I sold that first.

Cheers. I get my beer and then a shower. At a loss. Unreported. Notch notch.

[9TONNN]

I love bitcoin, however i see privacy as the #1 concern going forward.

Monero is quietly gaining lots of adoption on websites, services, exchanges, dark net markets etc.

Most of the truth & freedom movement appear to recommend it over Bitcoin.

Node count has passed BTC and mining hash rate is growing rapidly as you don't need an Asics, just your PC.

To me it seems Monero is something that should not be ignored.

Also scaling is another issue, Bitcoin fees are 1000x Monero fees.

There's no reason why you can't Coinjoin/Lightning your UTXO's in conjunction with Monero - it's a good privacy tool and supplement to Bitcoin IMO.

Thoughts please. I want some honest opinions here.

Which are the top three DEX exchanges having higher Monero(XMR) trading volumes?

[zabzob]

Which are the top three DEX exchanges having higher Monero(XMR) trading volumes?

Bisq is one to consider

[arabspaceship123]

Monero price's going to take a swipe loss if 1 or 2 big exchanges to delist it. How's it going to affect SEC in 1 or 2 years if they'll allow American licence operated exchanges to receive deposits connected to XMR BTC swaps. It'll have a long life if decentralised ops exist because ppl didn't stop using it.

XMR's only useful if you've got markets to to sell or exchange it that's why they'll try to drive it out of business.

This is what makes Monero stand still and strong even if largest Exchanges remove it.  There are a lot of Decentralized opportunities to convert Monero into other Cryptocurrencies.  There is even Atomic Swap possibility between Monero and Bitcoin.  There will in consequence ALWAYS be an option and a Market for it.  I honestly doubt it is going any where unless Europe or The United States ban it.  Even then, underground it will continue to thrive in my opinion.  You can ban Open Source legally.  But you can not stop Monero nor can you find its users easily.

If Coins like XRP get in this same mud Monero is in, it would die quickly and painfully.  Look at Monero however.  Every body hates on it all of a sudden but it is still on the rise.  Monero simply can not die for now.

[apogio]

This is what makes Monero stand still and strong even if largest Exchanges remove it.  There are a lot of Decentralized opportunities to convert Monero into other Cryptocurrencies.  There is even Atomic Swap possibility between Monero and Bitcoin.  There will in consequence ALWAYS be an option and a Market for it.  I honestly doubt it is going any where unless Europe or The United States ban it.  Even then, underground it will continue to thrive in my opinion.  You can ban Open Source legally.  But you can not stop Monero nor can you find its users easily.

If Coins like XRP get in this same mud Monero is in, it would die quickly and painfully.  Look at Monero however.  Every body hates on it all of a sudden but it is still on the rise.  Monero simply can not die for now.

I honestly agree with you. Monero will be there for us, for a long time (I could say forever, but anyway). Monero persists some amazing features and it is a brilliant cryptocurrency privacy-wise.

But if we dream of such a cryptocurrency to become widely adopted and more and more people to start using it, then I seriously doubt about it. The problem lies in getting higher adoption.

Most people follow the dark path created by governments and the media. They will not be able to escape the lie they have been immersed in and I take for granted that they will follow the logic that monero exists only for criminals. Simply because the media and governments say so. Not to mention the unimaginably strong bond of the average person with the modern economic system (banks, loans, FIAT money, inflation, etc.).

[barto123]

It's too late for me to hide anything on the government and it's not like they are going to tax me on my crypto stuff so I don't think that I'm ever going to try using Monero and now that a lot of CEX are trying their best to remove it in their exchange. We're probably living in a dystopia already, we just refuse to see it because it's not what we've expected of the dystopias we've watched and read. I would still go for bitcoin, I'm good enough with the pseudonymity that it provides, maybe I'll worry about my privacy when I have tens or hundreds of millions if not billions in crypto.

This is the mentality of most and I get it.

"I'm just a drop in the ocean" "I've got nothing to hide"

The dystopia is advancing at a rapid rate. Soon you'll need to buy real meat on dark net markets if you don't want to eat ze bugs. Soon you'll need regular poison jabs to get your UBI.

To me, privacy will be life or death. If you want to live a healthy and free life, you're going to have to be like neo and navigate the matrix like a ninja. Or you're going to have to leave the system entirely/walk into the forest & start a new life.

Hopefully I'm wrong, Hopefully people find themselves again and start acting like humans, the world can change so fast if people started doing the right thing. Almost no one is a good person, because everything in this system is immoral. We're the problem and the solution.

[cryptosize]

It's too late for me to hide anything on the government and it's not like they are going to tax me on my crypto stuff so I don't think that I'm ever going to try using Monero and now that a lot of CEX are trying their best to remove it in their exchange. We're probably living in a dystopia already, we just refuse to see it because it's not what we've expected of the dystopias we've watched and read. I would still go for bitcoin, I'm good enough with the pseudonymity that it provides, maybe I'll worry about my privacy when I have tens or hundreds of millions if not billions in crypto.

This is the mentality of most and I get it.

"I'm just a drop in the ocean" "I've got nothing to hide"

The dystopia is advancing at a rapid rate. Soon you'll need to buy real meat on dark net markets if you don't want to eat ze bugs. Soon you'll need regular poison jabs to get your UBI.

To me, privacy will be life or death. If you want to live a healthy and free life, you're going to have to be like neo and navigate the matrix like a ninja. Or you're going to have to leave the system entirely/walk into the forest & start a new life.

Hopefully I'm wrong, Hopefully people find themselves again and start acting like humans, the world can change so fast if people started doing the right thing. Almost no one is a good person, because everything in this system is immoral. We're the problem and the solution.

They'll tell you you're a crazy tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist...

[barto123]

Yes, financial privacy are important, but there are bigger problems with it that needs to be considered.. if you want to allow that.

We know 100% anonymity is directly linked to criminal actions and we should find solutions to expose criminals and still protecting people's financial information.

Do we want the blood of innocent victims of child abuse or victims of terrorism on our conscience, when people use this technology to pay for child porn or when they buy weapons to kill innocent people in the streets as part of some religious war?

Your complaints are fair, but they miss a key point: the issue is bad users, not Bitcoin's privacy feature. Should we not consider that most Bitcoin users value privacy for genuine reasons? All financial systems risk misuse, but humans are unpredictable, not technology.

We shouldnt dispute Bitcoin's privacy concept; instead, how can we strengthen ecosystem monitoring and regulation without infringing privacy rights? Blockchain experts, law enforcement, and privacy activists may collaborate. Innovations that balance security and privacy may result from such collaboration. Its difficult, but it protects money privacy and prevents criminal exploitation. Lets not forget Bitcoin's ability to transform financial privacy while solving these issues.

What defines a bad user though? and can you trust a central point of authority to enforce what is moral or immoral?

I would say a lot of the "bad users" you're referring to aren't actually that bad. The only thing that is truly immoral is harming another. The law will say otherwise, because the system protects the worst kind of criminals, who perpetrate war crimes, sex trafficking of minors, ritualistic blood sacrifice, terrorism,  - to name a few. They've just changed the wording of their crimes and brainwashed society to believe it. The ones who run this world are doing the worst crimes and that's why people like Assange are locked up. Those who speak truth are silenced. killed, imprisioned, "suicided".

A lot of the privacy activists have their morals intact. I wouldn't allow law enforcement or blockchain experts to tell me what is moral. most blockchain experts are scammers and law enforcement - well if you've been paying attention, they would beat people to the ground during the plandemic if you didn't wear a mask, for a virus that's never been proven to exist. they coerced a vaccination that's killed millions & that is just the tip of the iceberg. The police clearly work for the politicians, they don't represent the people. If you actually take the time to think, you'll realize everything single thing in this system is immoral. There is no law.

[arabspaceship123]

There isn't the reason to stop providing services like XMR if they're being used by good users or bad users. It's known good ppl use banks for their needs so bad ppl use banks for theirs. We aren't debating closing down banks because of good users or bad users but when it's about crypto govt's want to take control.

[Troytech]

I believe with time, the weak side of this major contender will also surface and it will become obvious that Bitcoin will always be the leader.

What weak side are you referring to?

Are you sure it is getting a lot of adoption on exchanges? Because I know there's a lot of DEXes that are supporting Monero, but it seems like centralized exchanges are rushing to drop it like a hot potato (because "money laundering" and "crime" and ... you get the idea).

Centralized exchanges should not be taken to be the arbiter of what is a good coin or not. They will list endless numbers of outright scams if it makes them profit. All their decisions are driven only by what will make them profit, not by what is good for their users or the community.

There's no other cryptocurrencies that can provide you with the level of privacy you can have with bitcoin

This is just false. Monero is exponentially more private than bitcoin.

So holding and using Bitcoin give you a neutral impression instead of Monero.

Various governments around the world are currently advancing legislation to make it illegal to own and hold bitcoin outside of fully KYCed centralized exchanges and in your own wallet. So you will soon be viewed as equally suspect. The correct answer is not to acquiesce to these crazy regulations and give in to the surveillance state.


I've said many times before that Monero is the only coin other than Bitcoin which I own and use, and the only altcoin I consider not to be a shitcoin. It shares many of the good things about bitcoin - decentalized, PoW, no premine, etc. - while also being far more private if used properly. I don't think it will ever replace bitcoin, but I also think it is one of the only altcoins which will continue to grow and continue to be used many years in the future.

Well said just as tho you've said all my thoughts on this issue, I've not used monero but I've been a fan and It's a coin that I consider using something although not to store but anytime I would like to do a private transaction.

Bitcoin and monero should not be compared, there serve different purpose and have different strengths, bitcoin security has been compromised a bit since online exchanges appeared to be the most commonly used and there would not fail to deliver you information to the government to save their ass, unless your doing your transactions off exchanges.

I can't advise anyone to invest in monero but you can sure use it when you want to keep your privacy secured.

This is what makes Monero stand still and strong even if largest Exchanges remove it.  There are a lot of Decentralized opportunities to convert Monero into other Cryptocurrencies.  There is even Atomic Swap possibility between Monero and Bitcoin.  There will in consequence ALWAYS be an option and a Market for it.  I honestly doubt it is going any where unless Europe or The United States ban it.  Even then, underground it will continue to thrive in my opinion.  You can ban Open Source legally.  But you can not stop Monero nor can you find its users easily.

If Coins like XRP get in this same mud Monero is in, it would die quickly and painfully.  Look at Monero however.  Every body hates on it all of a sudden but it is still on the rise.  Monero simply can not die for now.

I honestly agree with you. Monero will be there for us, for a long time (I could say forever, but anyway). Monero persists some amazing features and it is a brilliant cryptocurrency privacy-wise.

But if we dream of such a cryptocurrency to become widely adopted and more and more people to start using it, then I seriously doubt about it. The problem lies in getting higher adoption.

Most people follow the dark path created by governments and the media. They will not be able to escape the lie they have been immersed in and I take for granted that they will follow the logic that monero exists only for criminals. Simply because the media and governments say so. Not to mention the unimaginably strong bond of the average person with the modern economic system (banks, loans, FIAT money, inflation, etc.).

IMO I monero starts chasing mass adoption we might have to compromise this amazing privacy that we are getting from it, remember the case of the silk road market place and how so many illegal activities where done through it and this might also be a case for monero, government doesn't like anything that there are not in control of

[BlackHatCoiner]

Bitcoin and monero should not be compared, there serve different purpose and have different strengths, bitcoin security has been compromised a bit since online exchanges appeared to be the most commonly used and there would not fail to deliver you information to the government to save their ass, unless your doing your transactions off exchanges.

That has nothing to do with Bitcoin's security. The network is the most secure comparably to every other cryptocurrency, with an All Time High of 673.8 EH/s hashrate.

IMO I monero starts chasing mass adoption we might have to compromise this amazing privacy that we are getting from it

... and why is that exactly? First things first, nobody controls the network. So, it isn't a regular, centralized shitcoin that the authorities can just shut down. Governments have tried breaking the privacy techniques of Monero and haven't succeeded once since the last big update (RingCT). The Proof-of-Work algorithm used (RandomX) and the overall stance of the community regarding it, is discouraging the development of ASICs, so it is even more decentralized than Bitcoin in a way.

Needless to say that if Monero's privacy is compromised voluntarily, it stops serving a purpose.

remember the case of the silk road market place and how so many illegal activities where done through it and this might also be a case for monero

• Silk road wasn't decentralized.
• Silk road was operating illegally.

[barto123]

Coinjoin is only forward facing privacy & lightning has a lot of privacy holes.

What do you mean "Coinjoin is only forward facing privacy"?

The way I understand it (& I'm no expert). You can Coinjoin all you want, but if the final destination links to you in anyway - IP address, name, address, browser, operating system, patterns etc. all the Coinjoin is useless because government blockchain analysis can connect the dots (for e.g). If you Coinjoin plus Lightning or Coinjoin plus Monero, it's much harder to connect start to finish. Unless you've bought or acquired your BTC P2P without KYC, then it's exponentially harder to track. Most people screwed this up though.

In summary, Coinjoin is only good in one direction, unless you have bought non-KYC BTC.

[BlackHatCoiner]

You can Coinjoin all you want, but if the final destination links to you in anyway - IP address, name, address, browser, operating system, patterns etc. all the Coinjoin is useless because government blockchain analysis can connect the dots (for e.g).

Picture coinjoin as a black box, where coins enter and leave the box as new coins. Let's make the hypothesis that each of the inputs is equally probable to create each of the outputs for the sake of simplicity (just like in this whirlpool coinjoin).

You see, you're right in the sense that all of the inputs have a slight connection with all of the outputs, but that's not the point. The point is that you can't match inputs with outputs, to de-anonymize the coinjoined outputs. Blockchain analysis is incapable to connect the dots, because first and foremost it relies on guesswork, and secondly good software (like Sparrow with Whirlpool) comes with anonymization techniques that hide IP address, OS, and other fingerprints, uses Tor etc.

[barto123]

XMR is far better than Bitcoin if privacy is your goal. I just worry about the likelihood that it stays around for too much longer. Governments have been relentlessly pressuring exchanges to delist it & most have obliged. It’s so good at maintaining your privacy that its strength is its downfall. It’s great for privacy if your only plan is to use it as a medium of exchange. As an investment or long term hodl it’s awful & Bitcoin is far better.

Almost everyday I'm watching them shadow ban Monero. EU banning anon wallets, Google flagging monero wallets as dangerous.

They can't flat out ban Monero as it would only attract more users. Monero is #1 underground currency.

Google just added blockchain surveillance for Bitcoin & altcoins. The cabal (j's) are coming for privacy in 2024, they need to launch CBDC soon before too many people wake up, probably on the back of some crisis so people will adopt it.

IMO, Monero will be around as long as internet stays up/people can still route around the dystopian surveillance grid

[barto123]

You can Coinjoin all you want, but if the final destination links to you in anyway - IP address, name, address, browser, operating system, patterns etc. all the Coinjoin is useless because government blockchain analysis can connect the dots (for e.g).

Picture coinjoin as a black box, where coins enter and leave the box as new coins. Let's make the hypothesis that each of the inputs is equally probable to create each of the outputs for the sake of simplicity (just like in this whirlpool coinjoin).

You see, you're right in the sense that all of the inputs have a slight connection with all of the outputs, but that's not the point. The point is that you can't match inputs with outputs, to de-anonymize the coinjoined outputs. Blockchain analysis is incapable to connect the dots, because first and foremost it relies on guesswork, and secondly good software (like Sparrow with Whirlpool) comes with anonymization techniques that hide IP address, OS, and other fingerprints, uses Tor etc.

What if you do everything right as above. You make an online purchase but your delivery address is included in transaction. Can't they just connect beginning & final transaction. Sure it'll take them a bit to work out, but that black box you're referring to is still transparent in a block explorer. Sure, if you buy non-KYC Bitcoin you're sweet. there's plausible deniability on how or when it was acquired.

If you use Monero, the black box in the middle isn't transparent. so they can't connect the beginning and final transaction.

[subdev]

Bitcoin vs Monero?

there is BitMonero - scarce, private, hard cap, no premine, fair verifiable start.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5571370.0

[Abiky]

I love bitcoin, however i see privacy as the #1 concern going forward.

Monero is quietly gaining lots of adoption on websites, services, exchanges, dark net markets etc.

Most of the truth & freedom movement appear to recommend it over Bitcoin.

Node count has passed BTC and mining hash rate is growing rapidly as you don't need an Asics, just your PC.

To me it seems Monero is something that should not be ignored.

Also scaling is another issue, Bitcoin fees are 1000x Monero fees.

There's no reason why you can't Coinjoin/Lightning your UTXO's in conjunction with Monero - it's a good privacy tool and supplement to Bitcoin IMO.

Thoughts please. I want some honest opinions here.

Monero may be good for privacy, but when it comes to sending money across borders, Bitcoin is a much better choice. The latter is more secure, reliable, and censorship-resistant. Bitcoin is also better than Monero when it comes to building generational wealth. Its scarce/finite supply is what truly makes it the ideal store of value. Monero is more akin to cash due to its fungibility properties. It's much cheaper, and private, too.

Depending on your needs, will be the kind of coin to use. I'd use both BTC and XMR for complete peace of mind. You're "free" to do with your money, whatever you want. So long as what you do is not "illegal", there should be nothing to worry about.

[apogio]

Depending on your needs, will be the kind of coin to use. I'd use both BTC and XMR for complete peace of mind. You're "free" to do with your money, whatever you want. So long as what you do is not "illegal", there should be nothing to worry about.

The true question is, who defines illegal activities. Apart from the obvious ones, governments across the globe tend to criminalize the usage of XMR, simply because they can't trace it. So if I buy a packet of gums from you, using monero, this is undoubtfully a potential criminal activity 

[jostorres]

The true question is, who defines illegal activities. Apart from the obvious ones, governments across the globe tend to criminalize the usage of XMR, simply because they can't trace it. So if I buy a packet of gums from you, using monero, this is undoubtfully a potential criminal activity 

It is. Doesn't mean you are getting caught every single time you use monero, it just means that if you do ever get caught, you are not going to be required to be doing something illegal, buying a pack of gums would still be considered illegal if you are using monero, at least in many nations.

Monero is banned because they can't trace and that means you can be laundering money from drug traficckers, how could they know it is not and it came from a clean place? So, they banned it and made it illegal.

[Abiky]

The true question is, who defines illegal activities. Apart from the obvious ones, governments across the globe tend to criminalize the usage of XMR, simply because they can't trace it. So if I buy a packet of gums from you, using monero, this is undoubtfully a potential criminal activity 

I think the right word would be "morally wrong", instead of "illegal". Because you and I know the government can deem anything it wants as "illegal" as long as it doesn't benefit it. But that doesn't mean what's labeled as "illegal" is "morally wrong". Completely different things.

For what I know, privacy is a human right. So even if governments "ban" Monero, you can still use it to help protect your financial privacy (morally right). Bitcoin may be decentralized and all, but it fails miserably in terms of privacy. Of course, it's much better than Monero when you want to preserve your wealth for generations or simply move money across borders in the most secure way possible. Depending on your needs, will be the kind of crypto to use. I hope XMR continues to rise in popularity for the foreseeable future.