JJG's Bitcoin Investment Ideas (Sustainable Withdrawal / Portfolio Maintenance)

[JayJuanGee]

I really find all this your advice very helpful and I have learnt alot from what you just said here, because there was a point I was buying bitcoin aggressively going beyond my financial capacity because of a DIP that occur and my friends where buying bitcoin aggressively so I decided to follow which almost made me to invest all I had in bitcoin, but thanks for your advice that everyone should stick to their fanancial capacity and not to over do.

So, as you know, I am not against the idea of investing as aggressively as you can, even though you have to also account for your own boundaries, and if you are not sure if the money is available or is going to be needed in the future for expenses, it is likely better to error on the side of keeping your money available until your expenses are confirmed rather than investing it and then realizing that you made a mistake.. and sure we all make mistakes, which is another reason to build and maintain various kinds of back up funds.

Even the best investment opportunities mean nothing without proper financial safety nets, i can confirm that cuz I did the same thing last year, I bought a significant amount when Bitcoin was around $55K but due to bad money management, I had an emergency and was forced to sell and yet, I had the chance to buy at such a low price that in 10 years, I could’ve had a huge amount of capital. You are absolutely right money management is one of the most crucial things. You have to know how to save and be prepared for anything

Hopefully, you have a plan to get back on the bitcoin bandwagon, especially since it takes a long time to build up a bitcoin investment, and if you currently have no bitcoin, then for your own good, you better figure out ways to start accumulating bitcoin, and to get the rest of your cashflow management systems in order, even if you are ONLY able to buy $10 per week.

If you don't have an emergency fund and other back up funds, I would suggest building those kinds of back up systems at the same time that you are building up your bitcoin investment, so they might grow at a similar rate. Don't be gambling with bitcoin or fucking around with overdoing matters.  It is better to stay in your bitcoin investment rather than to get forced out at time that is not your own choosing due to your bad cashflow management, and it is better to stay conservative and stay in the game for 10 years or more rather than getting in and out and not planning for the long term.

Sure, it could be that you already have some backup funds, such as 2-6 weeks of your expenses in cash, and for example, if you were to have and income around $30k per year, which is around $2,500 per month, and let's say that you have around $1,800 to $2k worth of expenses each month.   So maybe your savings could already be around $2k, and if you were to have around $100 per week of discretionary income that you were willing to put into bitcoin, you could put $75 in bitcoin each week and $25 into your emergency fund.. and in 30 weeks, you would end up having had put around $2,250 into bitcoin and around $2,750 in your emergency fund ($2k that you originally had and an additional $750 from new amounts of $25 per week in this hypothetical).  

For sure, your numbers may well be different because your  income and expenses are likely different from the ones that I describe above, yet you should be able to adjust the numbers to your own situation.

Sure, you have discretion regarding how to grow each of your funds, and likely bitcoin prices are going to continue to change during this time, and it could take you more than a year to build up your bitcoin holdings and your emergency funds to be equal to 3 months of your expenses, and sure bitcoin prices might have changed up or down during that time too...  and even if you have 3 months of expenses in emergency funds, you may well want to have other back up funds so that you don't have to touch your emergency funds absent an actual emergency, so you might still be building up back up funds and even using them from time to time.  

Once you have built up your various back up funds and you have strong cashflow management systems in place, then you could focus more exclusively on investing into bitcoin, and sure if you make mistakes from time to time, you have back up funds to fall back on and if some larger emergency comes, then you have emergency funds... yet I personally believe that we should try to engage in behaviors and to make preparations so that we never have to dip into our emergency funds except rare and temporary occasions and if our cashflow dries up we have figure out ways to get additional cashflow before having to dip into our emergency funds, when possible.  

And if we have modest finances, it could take us couple of cycles before we might modify our system of accumulating bitcoin in such a way that we are not necessarily accumulating bitcoin every week, persistently, consistently, regularly, ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively.  There might be some point where our bitcoin stash size is starting to inform us that we might be able to let off our bitcoin accumulation or perhaps to just buy on dips or some other modifications that are based on our stash size.  I tend to consider that it is likely that we need to go through BTC accumulation first, which could take a cycle or more, an then we might have a period of maintenance that might be less focused on BTC accumulation, and then finally we get to a state of being able to withdraw from our BTC... which is a product of time and a product of stash size.. and we have to figure out how much of a stash size that we need for our ability to sustainably withdraw from it and even perhaps completely live off our bitcoin stash or to have our BTC stash supplement other forms of income that we have.

[Tonimez]

I really find all this your advice very helpful and I have learnt alot from what you just said here, because there was a point I was buying bitcoin aggressively going beyond my financial capacity because of a DIP that occur and my friends where buying bitcoin aggressively so I decided to follow which almost made me to invest all I had in bitcoin, but thanks for your advice that everyone should stick to their fanancial capacity and not to over do.

So, as you know, I am not against the idea of investing as aggressively as you can, even though you have to also account for your own boundaries, and if you are not sure if the money is available or is going to be needed in the future for expenses, it is likely better to error on the side of keeping your money available until your expenses are confirmed rather than investing it and then realizing that you made a mistake.. and sure we all make mistakes, which is another reason to build and maintain various kinds of back up funds.

Even the best investment opportunities mean nothing without proper financial safety nets, i can confirm that cuz I did the same thing last year, I bought a significant amount when Bitcoin was around $55K but due to bad money management, I had an emergency and was forced to sell and yet, I had the chance to buy at such a low price that in 10 years, I could’ve had a huge amount of capital. You are absolutely right money management is one of the most crucial things. You have to know how to save and be prepared for anything

It is possible you never had a stable source of income which could allow you plan your finances. I suppose you had made a lump-sum and introduced such into buy bitcoin while thinking such money would come sooner but got disappointed. The best approach to bitcoin investment starts with owning a stable source of income which allows you make provision for emergency funds and back up funds which would cushion your investment.

More so, if you have a stable source of income, it is easier for you to break into bitcoin investment no matter how little you start. Always make sure you don't invest above your financial capacity and resist the push to over introduce lump-sum during dips. The best way to restart bitcoin accumulation is by starting, at least you have learned your lesson.

Hopefully, you have a plan to get back on the bitcoin bandwagon, especially since it takes a long time to build up a bitcoin investment, and if you currently have no bitcoin, then for your own good, you better figure out ways to start accumulating bitcoin, and to get the rest of your cashflow management systems in order, even if you are ONLY able to buy $10 per week.

If you don't have an emergency fund and other back up funds, I would suggest building those kinds of back up systems at the same time that you are building up your bitcoin investment, so they might grow at a similar rate. Don't be gambling with bitcoin or fucking around with overdoing matters.  It is better to stay in your bitcoin investment rather than to get forced out at time that is not your own choosing due to your bad cashflow management, and it is better to stay conservative and stay in the game for 10 years or more rather than getting in and out and not planning for the long term.

Sure, it could be that you already have some backup funds, such as 2-6 weeks of your expenses in cash, and for example, if you were to have and income around $30k per year, which is around $2,500 per month, and let's say that you have around $1,800 to $2k worth of expenses each month.   So maybe your savings could already be around $2k, and if you were to have around $100 per week of discretionary income that you were willing to put into bitcoin, you could put $75 in bitcoin each week and $25 into your emergency fund.. and in 30 weeks, you would end up having had put around $2,250 into bitcoin and around $2,750 in your emergency fund ($2k that you originally had and an additional $750 from new amounts of $25 per week in this hypothetical).  

For sure, your numbers may well be different because your  income and expenses are likely different from the ones that I describe above, yet you should be able to adjust the numbers to your own situation.

Sure, you have discretion regarding how to grow each of your funds, and likely bitcoin prices are going to continue to change during this time, and it could take you more than a year to build up your bitcoin holdings and your emergency funds to be equal to 3 months of your expenses, and sure bitcoin prices might have changed up or down during that time too...  and even if you have 3 months of expenses in emergency funds, you may well want to have other back up funds so that you don't have to touch your emergency funds absent an actual emergency, so you might still be building up back up funds and even using them from time to time.  

Once you have built up your various back up funds and you have strong cashflow management systems in place, then you could focus more exclusively on investing into bitcoin, and sure if you make mistakes from time to time, you have back up funds to fall back on and if some larger emergency comes, then you have emergency funds... yet I personally believe that we should try to engage in behaviors and to make preparations so that we never have to dip into our emergency funds except rare and temporary occasions and if our cashflow dries up we have figure out ways to get additional cashflow before having to dip into our emergency funds, when possible.  

And if we have modest finances, it could take us couple of cycles before we might modify our system of accumulating bitcoin in such a way that we are not necessarily accumulating bitcoin every week, persistently, consistently, regularly, ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively.  There might be some point where our bitcoin stash size is starting to inform us that we might be able to let off our bitcoin accumulation or perhaps to just buy on dips or some other modifications that are based on our stash size.  I tend to consider that it is likely that we need to go through BTC accumulation first, which could take a cycle or more, an then we might have a period of maintenance that might be less focused on BTC accumulation, and then finally we get to a state of being able to withdraw from our BTC... which is a product of time and a product of stash size.. and we have to figure out how much of a stash size that we need for our ability to sustainably withdraw from it and even perhaps completely live off our bitcoin stash or to have our BTC stash supplement other forms of income that we have.

The attitude of an investor goes a long way to determine how successful the investor could be. You cannot expect to have your bitcoin stash intact without having a cushion in the form of your emergency funds and back up funds. So cashflow management starts with envisaging possible dangers and also unknown uncertainties which could hinder you holding periods. I think the first thing every bitcoin investor should learn is cashflow management. Design your income and expenses. Set up your emergency funds and back up funds. Don't let greed take over your sense of precarious nature of eventualities. You can have a long-term goal for your investments which could be terminated by a single financial mistake. It's when you have accumulated bitcoin successfully to a stage of overall accumulation that you can consider slowing down or considering the withdrawal systems.

[Edited out]

[JayJuanGee]

I really find all this your advice very helpful and I have learnt alot from what you just said here, because there was a point I was buying bitcoin aggressively going beyond my financial capacity because of a DIP that occur and my friends where buying bitcoin aggressively so I decided to follow which almost made me to invest all I had in bitcoin, but thanks for your advice that everyone should stick to their fanancial capacity and not to over do.

So, as you know, I am not against the idea of investing as aggressively as you can, even though you have to also account for your own boundaries, and if you are not sure if the money is available or is going to be needed in the future for expenses, it is likely better to error on the side of keeping your money available until your expenses are confirmed rather than investing it and then realizing that you made a mistake.. and sure we all make mistakes, which is another reason to build and maintain various kinds of back up funds.

Even the best investment opportunities mean nothing without proper financial safety nets, i can confirm that cuz I did the same thing last year, I bought a significant amount when Bitcoin was around $55K but due to bad money management, I had an emergency and was forced to sell and yet, I had the chance to buy at such a low price that in 10 years, I could’ve had a huge amount of capital. You are absolutely right money management is one of the most crucial things. You have to know how to save and be prepared for anything

It is possible you never had a stable source of income which could allow you plan your finances. I suppose you had made a lump-sum and introduced such into buy bitcoin while thinking such money would come sooner but got disappointed. The best approach to bitcoin investment starts with owning a stable source of income which allows you make provision for emergency funds and back up funds which would cushion your investment.

More so, if you have a stable source of income, it is easier for you to break into bitcoin investment no matter how little you start. Always make sure you don't invest above your financial capacity and resist the push to over introduce lump-sum during dips. The best way to restart bitcoin accumulation is by starting, at least you have learned your lesson.

Many of us recognize that we do not need a steady income to either get started or to sustain our bitcoin investment, even though surely it can help to have more discretionary income rather than less and rather than uncertainties.

The bare minimum to be able to invest in bitcoin is to have discretionary income, even if the income is not steady or strong.

Another thing that many of the longer time bitcoin investors likely realize is that if we put investing systems into place and we are ongoingly focusing on accumulating bitcoin regularly through buying persistently and consistently and perhaps even aggressively, we may well recognize more and more opportunities to invest lump sum and/or to divert value from other places in order to allocate such value into bitcoin.

One of the advantages of establishing priorities towards bitcoin is that we may well become less wasteful with extra money that we might be able to earn or to gather from other places, including that we may well even identify various ways that we might be able to cut several of our expenses, and to use the extra money for investing into bitcoin.

It surely can take a long time to get through our earliest of BTC accumulation stages and to start to get to a point in our bitcoin accumulation journey in which we might start to recognize that we might want to move away from accumulating bitcoin and perhaps at some later point we might well consider that we are able to sustainably draw income off of our bitcoin, since it had gotten to a large enough size that we had concluded that we have enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin for our own purposes of either living off our bitcoin our using our bitcoin as a way to supplement other income sources that we have.

Hopefully, you have a plan to get back on the bitcoin bandwagon, especially since it takes a long time to build up a bitcoin investment, and if you currently have no bitcoin, then for your own good, you better figure out ways to start accumulating bitcoin, and to get the rest of your cashflow management systems in order, even if you are ONLY able to buy $10 per week.

If you don't have an emergency fund and other back up funds, I would suggest building those kinds of back up systems at the same time that you are building up your bitcoin investment, so they might grow at a similar rate. Don't be gambling with bitcoin or fucking around with overdoing matters.  It is better to stay in your bitcoin investment rather than to get forced out at time that is not your own choosing due to your bad cashflow management, and it is better to stay conservative and stay in the game for 10 years or more rather than getting in and out and not planning for the long term.

Sure, it could be that you already have some backup funds, such as 2-6 weeks of your expenses in cash, and for example, if you were to have and income around $30k per year, which is around $2,500 per month, and let's say that you have around $1,800 to $2k worth of expenses each month.   So maybe your savings could already be around $2k, and if you were to have around $100 per week of discretionary income that you were willing to put into bitcoin, you could put $75 in bitcoin each week and $25 into your emergency fund.. and in 30 weeks, you would end up having had put around $2,250 into bitcoin and around $2,750 in your emergency fund ($2k that you originally had and an additional $750 from new amounts of $25 per week in this hypothetical).  

For sure, your numbers may well be different because your  income and expenses are likely different from the ones that I describe above, yet you should be able to adjust the numbers to your own situation.

Sure, you have discretion regarding how to grow each of your funds, and likely bitcoin prices are going to continue to change during this time, and it could take you more than a year to build up your bitcoin holdings and your emergency funds to be equal to 3 months of your expenses, and sure bitcoin prices might have changed up or down during that time too...  and even if you have 3 months of expenses in emergency funds, you may well want to have other back up funds so that you don't have to touch your emergency funds absent an actual emergency, so you might still be building up back up funds and even using them from time to time.  

Once you have built up your various back up funds and you have strong cashflow management systems in place, then you could focus more exclusively on investing into bitcoin, and sure if you make mistakes from time to time, you have back up funds to fall back on and if some larger emergency comes, then you have emergency funds... yet I personally believe that we should try to engage in behaviors and to make preparations so that we never have to dip into our emergency funds except rare and temporary occasions and if our cashflow dries up we have figure out ways to get additional cashflow before having to dip into our emergency funds, when possible.  

And if we have modest finances, it could take us couple of cycles before we might modify our system of accumulating bitcoin in such a way that we are not necessarily accumulating bitcoin every week, persistently, consistently, regularly, ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively.  There might be some point where our bitcoin stash size is starting to inform us that we might be able to let off our bitcoin accumulation or perhaps to just buy on dips or some other modifications that are based on our stash size.  I tend to consider that it is likely that we need to go through BTC accumulation first, which could take a cycle or more, an then we might have a period of maintenance that might be less focused on BTC accumulation, and then finally we get to a state of being able to withdraw from our BTC... which is a product of time and a product of stash size.. and we have to figure out how much of a stash size that we need for our ability to sustainably withdraw from it and even perhaps completely live off our bitcoin stash or to have our BTC stash supplement other forms of income that we have.

The attitude of an investor goes a long way to determine how successful the investor could be. You cannot expect to have your bitcoin stash intact without having a cushion in the form of your emergency funds and back up funds. So cashflow management starts with envisaging possible dangers and also unknown uncertainties which could hinder you holding periods. I think the first thing every bitcoin investor should learn is cashflow management. Design your income and expenses. Set up your emergency funds and back up funds. Don't let greed take over your sense of precarious nature of eventualities.

Part of the dilemma frequently can be (perhaps more so with poor people) is that there is a desire to try to make sure that all of their dollars are "working," and so the money in back up funds (including emergency funds) may seem as if it is not "working" sufficiently enough.. .and so that dilemma of wanting to put money to work will then contribute towards not having money on the side to help to protect themselves from emergencies that might never end up happening.
 
It may well be a goal to try to create situations in which a guy never has to use his emergency funds.. so then the money is just sitting there. which does not seem smart, even though it is smart and gives a lot of security and/or confidence to person to be able to invest more aggressively based on having the financial cushion that gives greater psychological comfort.
 

You can have a long-term goal for your investments which could be terminated by a single financial mistake.

You are correct that a guy could spend 10 years or more building up his bitcoin investment, and then at some point he ends up having to dip into his investment due to his inadequate maintenance of an emergency fund, and then he might end up getting set back for years based on his sloppiness and his putting his investment at greater risks by gambling with his money.
 

It's when you have accumulated bitcoin successfully to a stage of overall accumulation that you can consider slowing down or considering the withdrawal systems.

Yep. .it makes more sense to make sure that a guy is withdrawing from extra bitcoin rather than if he were to still be accumulating and he is withdrawing prior to having had reached overaccumulation status.

[MainIbem]

It's when you have accumulated bitcoin successfully to a stage of overall accumulation that you can consider slowing down or considering the withdrawal systems.

Yep. .it makes more sense to make sure that a guy is withdrawing from extra bitcoin rather than if he were to still be accumulating and he is withdrawing prior to having had reached overaccumulation status.

Talking about that, it makes no sense that one would withdraw from their portfolio when they're yet to meet their target, doesn't show discipline, one of the features of a long-term holder is discipline and if one has set their target to accumulate a certain amount for a decade or more then the person should ensure they stick to the plan, aim at reaching their goal by continous accumulation without withdrawal then like you said, he can choose to withdraw from the extra accumulated coin. I also want to add that people shouldn't mistake slowing down for a pause or end of accumulation in their portfolio it's simply means that you can reduce the rate of accumulation so far you've met your target, for instance if you were accumulating aggressively before reaching your target you can decide to go slowly after you've achieved your goal and not stop entirely.

[JayJuanGee]

It's when you have accumulated bitcoin successfully to a stage of overall accumulation that you can consider slowing down or considering the withdrawal systems.

Yep. .it makes more sense to make sure that a guy is withdrawing from extra bitcoin rather than if he were to still be accumulating and he is withdrawing prior to having had reached overaccumulation status.

Talking about that, it makes no sense that one would withdraw from their portfolio when they're yet to meet their target, doesn't show discipline, one of the features of a long-term holder is discipline and if one has set their target to accumulate a certain amount for a decade or more then the person should ensure they stick to the plan, aim at reaching their goal by continous accumulation without withdrawal then like you said, he can choose to withdraw from the extra accumulated coin.

Sometimes people don't realize that they are trading rather than investing so they get lured into selling for the purpose of either taking some risk off the table (which makes no sense since they are supposed to be accumulating), but then they consider that they are not deviating from their original plan since they consider that if the BTC price goes down, then they will just buy back cheaper.. so yes all the actions of a trader, but they think of themselves as an investor, while not necessarily realizing that they have diverted into a different mindset since once investors start to sell and then strategize when to buy back, they are no longer buying regularly, persistently, consistently, ongoingly and for sure not aggressively. 

Even if they might be able to buy bitcoin regularly and aggressively, they intentionally or perhaps inadvertantly transformed themselves into both a waiter and a waiter who is overly preoccupied about the price rather than keeping himself focused on ongoingly accumulating bitcoin.. since if they were to be ongoingly accumulating bitcoin, then they are no longer fucking around trying to guess where the BTC price might or might not go, and they would be staying focused on the actual results of ongoingly and regularly growing the size of heir BTC stash.

Getting into a waiting mindset is one step short of becoming bitter and disgruntled and lacking in focus, perhaps even devolving into starting to consider which shitcoins might be less shitty to make up for their not accumulating bitcoin, they may well start to put some of that money into shitcoins.. which is really hard to argue how those kinds of actions would be sufficiently/adequately focused on the actual value rather than guessing and taking unnecessary chances on shitcoins and/or trying to time when to get in and out of bitcoin.

I also want to add that people shouldn't mistake slowing down for a pause or end of accumulation in their portfolio it's simply means that you can reduce the rate of accumulation so far you've met your target, for instance if you were accumulating aggressively before reaching your target you can decide to go slowly after you've achieved your goal and not stop entirely.

Of course there may well be various points in time that guys might start to slow down on the aggressiveness of their BTC accumulation, and surely some guys decide too slow down too early, yet these are still decisions that guys make, and surely there is a difference between a guy who had been accumulating fairly conservatively about 1% to 5% of his annual income each year into bitcoin over 1-2 cycles versus a guy who might have had been more aggressively accumulating between 15% and 25% of his income into bitcoin over the same period.   Even though there are no guarantees, it seems that the more aggressive guy is likely going to get to a point in which he has enough  or more than enough way more quickly than the more conservative investor.  Yet each of them has abilities to monitor and to adjust and sometimes even make mistakes along the way in terms of whether, the diredction and the degree to which they might adjust.

Each of us also has to live with the consequences of whatever choices we make whether we choose to invest too whimpily or even too aggressively, we hopefully are finding a place in which we are not contributing towards damaging ourselves through the approach we ended up taking.

[Tonimez]

[Edited out]

Part of the dilemma frequently can be (perhaps more so with poor people) is that there is a desire to try to make sure that all of their dollars are "working," and so the money in back up funds (including emergency funds) may seem as if it is not "working" sufficiently enough.. .and so that dilemma of wanting to put money to work will then contribute towards not having money on the side to help to protect themselves from emergencies that might never end up happening.
 
It may well be a goal to try to create situations in which a guy never has to use his emergency funds.. so then the money is just sitting there. which does not seem smart, even though it is smart and gives a lot of security and/or confidence to person to be able to invest more aggressively based on having the financial cushion that gives greater psychological comfort.

The idea of having a backup funds or emergency funds is not to make it work for you. Emergency funds are shields to your bitcoin stash on a long-term goal. What if you consider after a long period of creating your emergency funds and back up funds alongside your bitcoin accumulation that your back up and emergency funds have not been spent due to absence of uncertainties, which is on a good note. You can decide to, instead of investing the already accumulated emergency funds, either decrease the percentage of funds going to the emergency funds and back up funds and therefore increase your DCA allocation tremendously, leading to aggressive accumulation compared to your initial DCA plan. By so doing, you maximise your subsequent funds while holding the already accumulated emergency funds and back up funds in an easily accessible manner which could only be in fiats.

It won't be an option to use up the accumulated funds before starting afresh to accumulate them if you don't want to risk your bitcoin stash. We should be smart enough to identify those simple mistakes that could endanger years of bitcoin investment in just seconds or few moments.

[Wapfika]

It won't be an option to use up the accumulated funds before starting afresh to accumulate them if you don't want to risk your bitcoin stash. We should be smart enough to identify those simple mistakes that could endanger years of bitcoin investment in just seconds or few moments.

Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

You don’t need to think or consider a backup fund related to your Bitcoin investment if you are just allocating money that has no use on your daily expenses or future expenses.

[Promocodeudo]

Talking about that, it makes no sense that one would withdraw from their portfolio when they're yet to meet their target, doesn't show discipline, one of the features of a long-term holder is discipline and if one has set their target to accumulate a certain amount for a decade or more then the person should ensure they stick to the plan, aim at reaching their goal by continous accumulation without withdrawal then like you said, he can choose to withdraw from the extra accumulated coin. I also want to add that people shouldn't mistake slowing down for a pause or end of accumulation in their portfolio it's simply means that you can reduce the rate of accumulation so far you've met your target, for instance if you were accumulating aggressively before reaching your target you can decide to go slowly after you've achieved your goal and not stop entirely.

You are very right, first and foremost, an investor should not harbour or have the mindset of withdrawing from their hodling, that shouldn't come to play or will I say come in the picture, just as you've said already personally I believe that every investor has a set plan or aim of investing in Bitcoin, so for your purpose of investment to be reach that's to say such investor has to stay unshaken in his or her decision of going for a long-term,we know that sometimes temptation may come but don't see your portfolio as the alternative to solve the problems, if that's the case what then is emergency fund meant for, as bitcoiners we must learn how to persevere, many investors we see out there that has been able to hodl for a long-term faced some waves but the were able to conquer till this moment not because they are extra ordinarily but because they are very much focused and never allowed anything to bridge them from acumualung continuously.

Just as you said reaching your level of satisfaction shouldn't end your Bitcoin investment journey because Bitcoin investment is a continuous journey but go on and on with small figure reason being that as a hodler one you stop entirely, you might be tempted to withdraw that's why micro strategy will always remain relevant in the accumulation of Bitcoin, when you think they will get tired, they surprise people the more, isn't that great, the journey is a long one, although the decision to keep buying even when you have reach your target as you said is a personal decision but continuing is worth it alsince Bitcoin is still what it is.

[JayJuanGee]

Talking about that, it makes no sense that one would withdraw from their portfolio when they're yet to meet their target, doesn't show discipline, one of the features of a long-term holder is discipline and if one has set their target to accumulate a certain amount for a decade or more then the person should ensure they stick to the plan, aim at reaching their goal by continous accumulation without withdrawal then like you said, he can choose to withdraw from the extra accumulated coin. I also want to add that people shouldn't mistake slowing down for a pause or end of accumulation in their portfolio it's simply means that you can reduce the rate of accumulation so far you've met your target, for instance if you were accumulating aggressively before reaching your target you can decide to go slowly after you've achieved your goal and not stop entirely.

You are very right, first and foremost, an investor should not harbour or have the mindset of withdrawing from their hodling, that shouldn't come to play or will I say come in the picture, just as you've said already personally I believe that every investor has a set plan or aim of investing in Bitcoin, so for your purpose of investment to be reach that's to say such investor has to stay unshaken in his or her decision of going for a long-term,we know that sometimes temptation may come but don't see your portfolio as the alternative to solve the problems, if that's the case what then is emergency fund meant for, as bitcoiners we must learn how to persevere, many investors we see out there that has been able to hodl for a long-term faced some waves but the were able to conquer till this moment not because they are extra ordinarily but because they are very much focused and never allowed anything to bridge them from acumualung continuously.

A long term bitcoin holder does not necessarily need to continue to accumulate bitcoin once he has reached overaccumulation status.

Once a guy reaches overaccumulation status, he may well be drawing from his BTC at a rate that is lower than it is appreciating in value, and that is the reason that withdrawing from it at such rate can be established in a sustainable and perpetual way (meaning forever at such sustainable rate).  At that point accumulating and/or re-accumulating becomes optional.

Yesterday in my response to Siliikiem in another thread, I refer back to another of my posts in which I outline how a guy might have an income of $30k per year and a goal of having an income of $80k per year, so he needs a minimum of 16.407 BTC to be able to draw an income of $80k per year, yet he had accumulated 27 BTC, so he has extra BTC beyond his goal.. and even if he were to only have 16.407 BTC he does not need to continue to accumulate BTC in order to maintain his $80k per year income, even accounting for something like a 7% per year debasement of the dollar, yet he also might feel more comfortable to be withdrawing at the theoretical limits if he has extra BTC.. but it is not mandatory that he does as long as he has not made any mistakes in his calculations.  Personally, I prefer to have som extra (and/or extra cushion of overaccumulation in order to account for mistakes and some variance in the possible unknowns that relate to the future...

[edited out]

Maybe it can be helpful to go back to the example, and if the guy in the example knows that right now if he has at least 16.407 BTC, then, he can withdraw $80k per year in a perpetual way and even accounting for something like 7% per year dollar debasement that allows him to increase the withdrawal amount by 7% each year.   Largely he knows that his BTC stash is growing in dollar value faster than the rate that he is withdrawing it.

So, I used the example of overaccumulation to exaggerate the point and to perhaps even assure that the guys is withdrawing from the overaccumulated amount, so he really does not need very much more than 16.407 BTC in order to be withdrawing from the overaccumulated amount since the BTC is going to be growing at a faster rate than it is withdrawn as ling as the guys stays within his limitations, yet he still might be more comfortable to be quite a bit above the bare minimal threshold rather than being exactly at the bare minimal threshold for the $80k per year passive income.

In my example, I used the 27 BTC amount in order to show a situation in which the guy has 10 BTC extra, and sure that is excess in order to make the point.. since a guy with 27 BTC may well recognize that right now, he could withdraw from his BTC at a rate of $131k per year and he would still be withdrawing at a rate that is less than the BTC is going up in value.. yet out of an abundance of caution, just to make sure that his formulas are correct and that he is not selling too much BTC too soon, he decides to start out withdrawing at $80k per year rather than $131k per year, which largely results in an extra $51k-ish per year rolling over, continuing to grow and largely compounding in value upon itself with the passage of time.

Essentially, I am asserting that continuing to accumulate is optional and it is not even necessary to continue to accumulate BTC in order to stay in overaccumulation status even while withdrawing BTC at your sustainable rate, since within the concept the rate is sustainable.. and if the rate is not sustainable then it needs to be adjust downward so that it is sustainable.  Surely some guys mistaken in their calculations in regards to what is a sustainable rate, so I suppose in those regards, it is helpful to have extra cushion in the amount of BTC that is held within the overaccumualtion to account for some of the possible calculation mistakes.

Just as you said reaching your level of satisfaction shouldn't end your Bitcoin investment journey because Bitcoin investment is a continuous journey but go on and on with small figure reason being that as a hodler one you stop entirely,

Guys keep misreading and misstating me, though.  Sure, I frequently proclaim that the holding onto bitcoin can be planned in ways that guys never completely sell their BTC.. so they may well reach a status of overaccumulation in which they are selling BTC through the rest of their lives and/or potentially also leaving BTC to their heirs.. At the same time, guys also seem to imply that I am suggesting that accumulation of BTC needs to continue, and surely I am not saying that, even though surely continuing to accumulate bitcoin can be optional, yet we still can create systems in which we presume that no additional BTC accumulation is taking place and that the BTC holdings would be sustainable within the various theoretical plans in which further accumulation might not be taking place.

There can be price-based sustainable withdrawal and/or time-based sustainable withdrawal... Let's just use the example of price-based sustainable withdrawal for now... and if a person has 10 BTC, as in my example from my earlier post, he can be selling at 5% or 10% of his stash every time the BTC price doubles, and the BTC will never run out.  He does not have to buy back.. Buying back is optional, which means that it is not necessary for the price-based selling system to be sustainable.

Similar with the time-based sustainable withdrawal. If the person has more than enough BTC, then as long as the BTC price stays at least 25% above the 200-WMA, then the withdrawal can be made in sustainable ways whether the withdrawals are every month, quarter, yearly or whatever.  Of course, if a person is going to withdraw longer periods at time, then it likely is helpful to make sure that the total BTC quantity exceeds the amount being withdrawn so that it stays in sustainable status.... so the amount withdrawn is staying within the overaccumulated amount.

Maybe go back to the current desire to have a sustainable income of $80k per year, so then if the person might be considering withdrawing a whole year in advance, so then he looks at current bitcoin prices and sees that he is able to get $104k per BTC, and so if he withdraws 0.77 BTC, then it would be preferable that he is withdrawing from the excess bitcoin so it would be best if he has at least 17.18 BTC (16.407 + 0.77)... and so then maybe next year when he goes to withdraw another $85.6k ($80k + $5.6k (7%  more)) he again would be withdrawing from the excess as the BTC is then evaluated.  It could be the case that the guy is worried about the BTC being enough, so then yeah, to start the process, he might prefer to have 30% more bitcoin than his threshold sustainable withdrawal amount, so then maybe he would prefer to not start his sustainable withdrawal of $80k per year until he were to have 21.3291 BTC (30% more BTC) rather than the bare threshold minimum of 16.407 BTC.

I understand that these calculations can become confusing, yet each guy still has to figure out numbers that are comfortable for him and his situation.

you might be tempted to withdraw that's why micro strategy will always remain relevant in the accumulation of Bitcoin

Fuck Microstrategy and Saylor.

They are not necessarily relevant to the creation and the following of goals for an overwhelming majority of regular individuals.

Microstrategy is using the money of other people to accumulate way more bitcoin than they need, and sure their various strategies are likely good for Microstrategy, for Saylor and even for the BTC price since their conduct is pumping the bags of other bitcoin holders (who have already accumulated a decent amount of BTC), but they are also driving up the BTC prices for guys who are still in their earlier BTC accumulation stages.

Many of us normies cannot do what MSTR does, and it is not realistic to be modeling MSTR/Saylor in terms of potentially going overboard.  Many guys are lucky if they are able to save/invest around 10% of their income into bitcoin, and sure if normies are able to be more aggressive in their BTC accumulation without over doing it or wrecking themselves along the way (such as up to 25% of their income or something like that), then sure.. no problems, but we have to try to attempt to be realistic within our own means and what resources we have available, even if we might be trying to be as aggressive in our BTC accumualtion that we are able to be without overdoing it..

If we fuck up and overdo our investment into bitcoin because we are trying to model ourselves on MSTR and/or Michael Saylor, no one is going to come and save our dumb, irresponsible gambling asses from our having had overdone it and failed/refused to stay sufficiently aggressively within our means rather than going overboard...

, when you think they will get tired, they surprise people the more, isn't that great, the journey is a long one, although the decision to keep buying even when you have reach your target as you said is a personal decision but continuing is worth it alsince Bitcoin is still what it is.

I am not saying that guys need to keep accumulating BTC no matter what and even once they have reached enough.. Guys need to be realistic.. Sure, some guys want to rule the world with their BTC, but it is necessary to be so greedy, since there are likely ways to either live within your means and your standard of living and/or even to increase your standard of living within realistic and/or happy ways.. .. and for sure, there are many times, that I am suggesting that there are periods in which guys have reached enough or more than enough bitcoin.. and they do not necessarily need to keep accumulating bitcoin. .and it might not even be good ideas and/or practices to be continuing to accumulating bitcoin when you might have had reached several multiples your current standard of living. and your may well not have goals to have a yacht or even 3 yachts and a plane or whatever.. NOT everyone has those kinds of goals, and there are plenty of people who might be more than happy enough if they had been earning $30k per year to graduate up to $80k per year.  I am not trying to set goals for other guys, but just giving some examples in which guys can become happy or even more than happy without having to feel some need to set unrealistic goals for themselves.... or even to keep wanting more and more and more.. when they should be completely happy retaining more regular and modest goals.

Even when I first saw what MSTR had done in August 2020 when it accumulated its first tranche of BTC, I proclaimed that they had invested way more than they had needed to invest.  

I think around that time of mid-to-late 2020, I was recommending a starting out strategy for normies to invest 5% to 25% of their cash (and/or their investment portfolio) into bitcoin, and MSTR's first purchase was around 75% of their then available cash.  Sure, maybe MSTR had other investments and/or assets to justify that they were not being overly aggressive in their investment into bitcoin, yet normal people tend to need to work within their cashflows and their discretionary income.. and surely I am not against aggressiveness or even going beyond 25% investment into bitcoin for guys who have sufficiently/adequately assessed their own circumstances, yet many times a guy who may well invest 25% of his income into bitcoin for one whole cycle or even two whole cycles, he may well end up getting to a point of enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin..

Think about it.  If a guy is investing 25% per year into bitcoin, then after 4 years, he has invested a whole year's of his income into bitcoin, and if the BTC price goes up, then his year or even 2 years of investment of salary into bitcoin can then ultimately contribute to a situation in which the amount invested, plus the possible appreciation of the bitcoin could well end up being able to completely replace the guys current income just based on the ongoing appreciation of the BTC.. such as if the BTC price were to go up 10x or 25x or some other amount, then at some point the guy is able to partially or completely live off his bitcoin income because withdrawing from it would be sufficiently small in order that living off the bitcoin investment could be sustainable and/or perpetual with a withdrawal rate that is lower than the amount that the BTC is appreciating.

In another one of my earlier posts from a couple of days ago, I had described a situation of a guy with a $30k income and a goal of getting to an income of $80k, and accumulating since 2016 and getting to way past his goals with even fairly modest levels of aggressiveness.

[MainIbem]

...Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

A salary earner who invests all their money into Bitcoin for the sake of profits is not a real investor, the person is a trader trying to double his income with the idea of Bitcoin investment but it's a wrong move that would backfire since Bitcoin is a long-term investment opportunity, I mean that the person would be forced to sell at some point especially if he's one who earns on a monthly basis. There's a reason why Bitcoin investment is best done with discretionary funds, cause at that point you've already separated the funds meant to essential expenses from that meant for investment, but going in to the market with all his salary for the month especially if he's yet to meet his target or invest for a decade or atleast one complete circle, would force him to withdraw from his portfolio to solve his essential needs.

[SmartGold01]

...Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

A salary earner who invests all their money into Bitcoin for the sake of profits is not a real investor, the person is a trader trying to double his income with the idea of Bitcoin investment but it's a wrong move that would backfire since Bitcoin is a long-term investment opportunity, I mean that the person would be forced to sell at some point especially if he's one who earns on a monthly basis. There's a reason why Bitcoin investment is best done with discretionary funds, cause at that point you've already separated the funds meant to essential expenses from that meant for investment, but going in to the market with all his salary for the month especially if he's yet to meet his target or invest for a decade or atleast one complete circle, would force him to withdraw from his portfolio to solve his essential needs.

Of course that is correct.
you know nowadays people only focused and channels their all their salaries into investment or what they presumed or assumed to give them possible amount with the next few months of their investment or weeks there about without them knowing that there principles and guideline to use before becoming successful in their investment.

Before investing all his monthly income on investment there is also needs to have at least another source of income, I mean they should have multiple stream of income to allow their yield something attractive, and the other source have to be for their emergency, discretionary or such as cushion to serve as support to him when their needs arises, but depending online in bitcoin could cause them heart attack which would make them losing interest and also feeling disappointed when the said profits aren't coming so quickly as they expect.

Instead of such methods of investment, it would be extremely important to always apply the DCA methods which they can allocate some percentage of their salaries to invest, and also the next month they will still top up gradually as the year progress, and you would see that before the year could run out he would end up having sufficiently enough in their balance.

[JayJuanGee]

...Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

A salary earner who invests all their money into Bitcoin for the sake of profits is not a real investor, the person is a trader trying to double his income with the idea of Bitcoin investment but it's a wrong move that would backfire since Bitcoin is a long-term investment opportunity, I mean that the person would be forced to sell at some point especially if he's one who earns on a monthly basis. There's a reason why Bitcoin investment is best done with discretionary funds, cause at that point you've already separated the funds meant to essential expenses from that meant for investment, but going in to the market with all his salary for the month especially if he's yet to meet his target or invest for a decade or atleast one complete circle, would force him to withdraw from his portfolio to solve his essential needs.

Surely I have several time proclaimed that investment timelines should be 4-10 years or longer, and then hopefully some kind of a long term commitment to holding the bitcoin that transitions the person into some forms of sustainable withdraw whether price-based sustainable withdrawal and/or time-based sustainable withdrawal.

Many times people will in either invest in bitcoin with some kind of consumption target, and then other times, they might not really give thoughts to ways that they might be able to attempt to sustainably withdraw from their bitcoin stash rather than depleting the principle

It is difficult to necessarily set goals for others, even if sometimes it might seem that their goal is short-sighted if they are seeming to overly deplete their principle without valid reasons such as age and/or health.

I don't really mind the idea of thinking about profits, even though as you mentioned MainIbem, overly focusing on profits seems to be a bit of a trader mindset, since if we tend to both hang onto our bitcoin and also figure out ways to cashout (or withdraw in sustainable ways) it is quite likely that our bitcoin investment ends up giving us more options, and the value of our bitcoin investment may well would have had compounded on itself several times we have compounding value and compounding profits rather than just some low level profits that traders might consider as in and out ways of investing in bitcoin and/or other assets that they are trading on generally shorter timelines.

[traderethereum]

...Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

A salary earner who invests all their money into Bitcoin for the sake of profits is not a real investor, the person is a trader trying to double his income with the idea of Bitcoin investment but it's a wrong move that would backfire since Bitcoin is a long-term investment opportunity, I mean that the person would be forced to sell at some point especially if he's one who earns on a monthly basis. There's a reason why Bitcoin investment is best done with discretionary funds, cause at that point you've already separated the funds meant to essential expenses from that meant for investment, but going in to the market with all his salary for the month especially if he's yet to meet his target or invest for a decade or atleast one complete circle, would force him to withdraw from his portfolio to solve his essential needs.

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

[Merit.s]

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

[JayJuanGee]

...Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

A salary earner who invests all their money into Bitcoin for the sake of profits is not a real investor, the person is a trader trying to double his income with the idea of Bitcoin investment but it's a wrong move that would backfire since Bitcoin is a long-term investment opportunity, I mean that the person would be forced to sell at some point especially if he's one who earns on a monthly basis. There's a reason why Bitcoin investment is best done with discretionary funds, cause at that point you've already separated the funds meant to essential expenses from that meant for investment, but going in to the market with all his salary for the month especially if he's yet to meet his target or invest for a decade or atleast one complete circle, would force him to withdraw from his portfolio to solve his essential needs.

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

Of course each person should be attempting to tailorize both his bitcoin accumulation strategies and his cashflow management strategies to his own circumstances, so in that regard, each person is likely to have variations in the way that he tailors based on his individual circumstances, even if some guys might have similar goals to accumulate as much bitcoin as they can within their own financial and psychological circumstances.

In this thread, I am trying to suggest ways that guys might manage their BTC once they start to feel that they have enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.. so there is a bit of an assumption of having had already gotten through bitcoin accumulation by the time the ideas of this thread start to become relevant.. such as the employment of sustainable withdrawal practices (price-based and/or time-based).  

I attempt to focus more on bitcoin accumulation strategies and/or cashflow management ideas in my bitcoin investment ideas thread.

Even that bitcoin investment ideas thread is right around 3.5 years old, so sometimes there are desires to attempt to consider and talk about these kinds of investment ideas within a more contemporary and active context, whether related to bitcoinm accumulation, cashflow management or otherwise... so in that regard, it does not hurt to continue to bat around those kinds of ideas within that other thread.

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

Surely the level of aggressiveness that any of us chooses to employ might have to do with our own personalities and/or maybe how well organized that we are, and likely guys who are better organized and keeping better track would be in a position to be more aggressive than someone who is less organized.

But yeah, our choices in regards to being aggressive or whimpy within our own income parameters has some subjective elements to it, and frequently, I attempt to suggest that all newbie investors should attempt into invest into bitcoin as aggressively as they are able to without overdoing it.. but at the same time, if a person is either in a bad cashflow management situation or maybe his psychology and/or comfort with bitcoin is not very strong, then he is likely better off to keep himself more conservative in his investment into bitcoin until he might become more comfortable with bitcoin and with his cashflow management systems and cashflow management practices.

There may be a certain quantity of folks who are new to investing in bitcoin and they are also new to investing into anything, so the less investment experience that anyone has, then the more time that they might need to spend getting used to their investing into bitcoin, whether they start out at $100 per week or $10 per week or some other quantity that helps to get them used to buying bitcoin regularly and also making sure that they get comfortable with their buying process and that they are not screwing that part up.. and even some guys might ant to start out and investigate into a few places in which they can buy bitcoin, but then they also might feel some necessities to get more comfortable with applying their bitcoin investment and their cashflow management practices to their own 9 individual factors, too.

[MainIbem]

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

Jokes on anyone that thinks they can buy during the dip, sell when they make profits then wait for another dip and buy again, such person who keeps disturbing their portfolio is not a real investor, what happened to patience? It doesn't even show discipline cause what if an emergency occur and the money the person intend to use in buying the dip could be split or entire funds used to settle the emergency situation, that's not wise which is why anyone who want to be a real investor should have a job for a start then set aside their discretionary funds to allow their investment go smoothly instead of doing otherwise and giving a trader vibes. Bitcoin investment is not as difficult as some folks think, it's even good that more people understands and put it to practice so on the long run it would influence their general way of life positively, there's no harm in being patient and discipline those are very good traits and investing in Bitcoin can help people without them possess them on the long run if they're determined and follow their investment diligently.

[JayJuanGee]

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

Jokes on anyone that thinks they can buy during the dip, sell when they make profits then wait for another dip and buy again, such person who keeps disturbing their portfolio is not a real investor, what happened to patience? It doesn't even show discipline cause what if an emergency occur and the money the person intend to use in buying the dip could be split or entire funds used to settle the emergency situation, that's not wise which is why anyone who want to be a real investor should have a job for a start then set aside their discretionary funds to allow their investment go smoothly instead of doing otherwise and giving a trader vibes. Bitcoin investment is not as difficult as some folks think, it's even good that more people understands and put it to practice so on the long run it would influence their general way of life positively, there's no harm in being patient and discipline those are very good traits and investing in Bitcoin can help people without them possess them on the long run if they're determined and follow their investment diligently.

I am having troubles understanding how this line of discussion relates to the topic of this thread, since there is a bit of an assumption, here that we have already reached our overaccumulation status.. and yeah, of course, if guys might start selling some of their bitcoin because they have reached overaccumulation status, then they would not necessarily be expecting to buy back cheaper.. so likely in that regard, they would not be selling so much as to put themselves out of overaccumulation status, whether they are engaging in price-based withdrawal or time-based withdrawal.

My other thread has more openness in the discussion of BTC accumulation tactics/strategies and cashflow management areas, even though surely, as you mentioned (MainIbem), I am not a very big fan of the employment of trading to try to accumulate more bitcoin - including that I consider trading to be a bit counter-productive in regards to either really building wealth and/or building a bitcoin portfolio, as you seem to be suggesting too.

I attempt to focus more on bitcoin accumulation strategies and/or cashflow management ideas in my bitcoin investment ideas thread.

[Tungbulu]

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

Jokes on anyone that thinks they can buy during the dip, sell when they make profits then wait for another dip and buy again, such person who keeps disturbing their portfolio is not a real investor, what happened to patience? It doesn't even show discipline cause what if an emergency occur and the money the person intend to use in buying the dip could be split or entire funds used to settle the emergency situation, that's not wise which is why anyone who want to be a real investor should have a job for a start then set aside their discretionary funds to allow their investment go smoothly instead of doing otherwise and giving a trader vibes. Bitcoin investment is not as difficult as some folks think, it's even good that more people understands and put it to practice so on the long run it would influence their general way of life positively, there's no harm in being patient and discipline those are very good traits and investing in Bitcoin can help people without them possess them on the long run if they're determined and follow their investment diligently.

I am having troubles understanding how this line of discussion relates to the topic of this thread, since there is a bit of an assumption, here that we have already reached our overaccumulation status.. and yeah, of course, if guys might start selling some of their bitcoin because they have reached overaccumulation status, then they would not necessarily be expecting to buy back cheaper.. so likely in that regard, they would not be selling so much as to put themselves out of overaccumulation status, whether they are engaging in price-based withdrawal or time-based withdrawal.

When investors have reached a state of overaccumulation, the focus shifts from accumulation or making more profits to management and optimization. And in this context, selling of Bitcoin suddenly becomes more of a strategic decision, and these decisions should be driven by long term financial goals as well as risk management, rather than making decisions based on short term market fluctuations. Reaching a fuck you status isn't as easy as it sounds, it takes lots of dedication, discipline and consistency and Those investors who have managed to get to this point are more likely to prioritize maintaining their desired allocation, manage tax implications (for countries that impose taxes on Bitcoin) and lastly, ensuring their financial stability. 

Their approach to selling their Bitcoin becomes more deliberate, planned and intentional, and they sell with a purpose to achieve specific objectives and not simply because they're reacting to the Volatility in the market. It really doesn't matter whether they're using the time based or the price based withdrawal strategy,  the overall plan remains to optimise their financial position while simultaneously minimizing certain risks that could be considered to be unnecessary.

[traderethereum]

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

The allocation of the money is the important thing so we can continouosly investing in Bitcoin without have a problem in finance. Bitcoin investment is a long term investment so should have patient and focus with that to achieve our goals in the future. Many people forget this rule and become panic especially if they don't have a strong hands.

It is not easy to hodl Bitcoin until the time but that is the challenge that we should face and solve how to hodl Bitcoin with tight. DCA really help those who want to wait with patient and there will be a big reward for them.

...Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

A salary earner who invests all their money into Bitcoin for the sake of profits is not a real investor, the person is a trader trying to double his income with the idea of Bitcoin investment but it's a wrong move that would backfire since Bitcoin is a long-term investment opportunity, I mean that the person would be forced to sell at some point especially if he's one who earns on a monthly basis. There's a reason why Bitcoin investment is best done with discretionary funds, cause at that point you've already separated the funds meant to essential expenses from that meant for investment, but going in to the market with all his salary for the month especially if he's yet to meet his target or invest for a decade or atleast one complete circle, would force him to withdraw from his portfolio to solve his essential needs.

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

Of course each person should be attempting to tailorize both his bitcoin accumulation strategies and his cashflow management strategies to his own circumstances, so in that regard, each person is likely to have variations in the way that he tailors based on his individual circumstances, even if some guys might have similar goals to accumulate as much bitcoin as they can within their own financial and psychological circumstances.

In this thread, I am trying to suggest ways that guys might manage their BTC once they start to feel that they have enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.. so there is a bit of an assumption of having had already gotten through bitcoin accumulation by the time the ideas of this thread start to become relevant.. such as the employment of sustainable withdrawal practices (price-based and/or time-based).  

I attempt to focus more on bitcoin accumulation strategies and/or cashflow management ideas in my bitcoin investment ideas thread.

Even that bitcoin investment ideas thread is right around 3.5 years old, so sometimes there are desires to attempt to consider and talk about these kinds of investment ideas within a more contemporary and active context, whether related to bitcoinm accumulation, cashflow management or otherwise... so in that regard, it does not hurt to continue to bat around those kinds of ideas within that other thread.

Bitcoin management will depend on how knowledgeable they are about it. But unfortunately, the average person does not want to learn or finds it difficult to learn so they think that investing in Bitcoin is just a one-time purchase and holding it. This needs to be straightened out so that they can change their view that this investment is intended for the long term and is sustainable over time.

If they already understand how to start DCA, they don't need to worry anymore, especially if they are able to allocate some of the money they can afford into Bitcoin investment. They just have to continue their plan to invest in Bitcoin until the target time they have determined.

I try to invest in Bitcoin every month. Although the amount of money is not as big as other people, it is money that I can afford. So how much money must be adjusted to our income after being reduced by the allocation for daily needs and also for emergency funds. But I'm sure there are many people who have their plans in running DCA.

[JayJuanGee]

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

Jokes on anyone that thinks they can buy during the dip, sell when they make profits then wait for another dip and buy again, such person who keeps disturbing their portfolio is not a real investor, what happened to patience? It doesn't even show discipline cause what if an emergency occur and the money the person intend to use in buying the dip could be split or entire funds used to settle the emergency situation, that's not wise which is why anyone who want to be a real investor should have a job for a start then set aside their discretionary funds to allow their investment go smoothly instead of doing otherwise and giving a trader vibes. Bitcoin investment is not as difficult as some folks think, it's even good that more people understands and put it to practice so on the long run it would influence their general way of life positively, there's no harm in being patient and discipline those are very good traits and investing in Bitcoin can help people without them possess them on the long run if they're determined and follow their investment diligently.

I am having troubles understanding how this line of discussion relates to the topic of this thread, since there is a bit of an assumption, here that we have already reached our overaccumulation status.. and yeah, of course, if guys might start selling some of their bitcoin because they have reached overaccumulation status, then they would not necessarily be expecting to buy back cheaper.. so likely in that regard, they would not be selling so much as to put themselves out of overaccumulation status, whether they are engaging in price-based withdrawal or time-based withdrawal.

When investors have reached a state of overaccumulation, the focus shifts from accumulation or making more profits to management and optimization. And in this context, selling of Bitcoin suddenly becomes more of a strategic decision, and these decisions should be driven by long term financial goals as well as risk management, rather than making decisions based on short term market fluctuations. Reaching a fuck you status isn't as easy as it sounds, it takes lots of dedication, discipline and consistency and Those investors who have managed to get to this point are more likely to prioritize maintaining their desired allocation, manage tax implications (for countries that impose taxes on Bitcoin) and lastly, ensuring their financial stability. 

Their approach to selling their Bitcoin becomes more deliberate, planned and intentional, and they sell with a purpose to achieve specific objectives and not simply because they're reacting to the Volatility in the market. It really doesn't matter whether they're using the time based or the price based withdrawal strategy,  the overall plan remains to optimise their financial position while simultaneously minimizing certain risks that could be considered to be unnecessary.

Even though everything that you are saying comes off as mostly correct, it also comes off as a bit theoretical if you cannot elaborate on what you mean a bit better, perhaps with the use of some examples or something like that.

One essence of arguably arriving at overaccumulation status is that the options seem to increase because something like selling becomes a more of an acceptable tool when we transition from focusing on ongoing accumulation towards some kind of a maintenance and then later that more and more allowance for selling and maybe fewer inclinations to buy, except maybe on extreme debts (well that is if the bitcoin have previously been managed in such a way that excessive cash is still being held during dips in the BTC price), yet at the same time, overaccumualtion status is not exactly a bright line, so how to deal with it seems to therefore depend upon how it is defined.

I have recently been mentioning that with my own perceptions regarding when I reached overaccumulation status, my today's definitions seem to have had changed in some ways, yet also it seems that these days I might be focusing more on certain factors rathe than other factors, even though likely I still had been accounting for all of the 9 individual factors to figure out where I believe myself to have had been and then how to potentially deal with that based in the individual factors.

I continue to have the sense that price based sustainable withdrawal are likely to both be utilized more frequently than time-based sustainable withdrawal but also to continue to ongoingly applicable, even though some of us might even be employing such price based sustainable with time factors in mind.  Yet, I think that even the way that I outline price based sustainable withdrawal ore time-based sustainable withdrawal, each of them have aspects of the other contained therein.

I guess what I am getting at, no matter what, many guys get sucked into some kind of attempts to account for BTC price movements (and even anticipation of future BTC price movements) in order to modify what they are doing, even though I so frequently criticize others for making large moves that from my perspective come off as forms of gambling rather than trying to employ more moderate approaches that attempt to deal with BTC holdings in more incremental ways that will try to hold back and prevent selling too much bitcoin too soon.. yet even from my own perspective, I sometimes am not sure if I might be the fool, since when the BTC price ultimately does some kind of a long, drawn out and even deep correction, the guys who sold some of their BTC and bought back slowly have tended to be able to buy more BTC back as compared with the BTC holder who had dealt with his BTC holdings in more incrementalist ways.

I know that another trick in using examples is attempting to make them seem realistic without necessarily talking about our own situations, yet if we sometimes get into specifics of examples, other folks might truly start to speculate that we are talking about our own specifics, yet I believe that practicing giving examples might help to dispel some of the abilities for others to proclaim which examples that we give are more like our own situation rather than our actually talking about situations that might exist with folks we know or even with folks we do not know.. .. such if we might discuss (or compare) a person who had been registered for less than a cycle or another more than a cycle, and frequently when we are making comparisons we might be wanting to compare hypotheticals with similar timeline (meaning we need to hold some constants in order to attempt to make the comparisons meaningful)

- though surely there still can be some benefits to comparing guys with differing timelines who might be following similar techniques, and we frequently will see that the guy who had been carrying out a similar technique (such as BTC accumulation) longer will likely get himself into a way better position as compared with the shorter-term BTC accumulator, even if he may well have had screwed up more and even if he might have had employed a more whimpy strategy... It seems that with the passage of time, even the more aggressive accumulators tend to have a lot of difficulties to catch up to the persons who had been accumulating longer.

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

Of course, just the way that our skin color is different, so is our income and discretionary income. In order for  you to invest without selling your bitcoin when it's not of your will, you should use an amount from your discretionary income that wouldn't be a burden to you so that you can continue buying with DCA regularly every week consistently and persistently for 4-10 years and above. Before you know it, your portfolio will be increasing gradually overtime.

Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment for the future so there is enough time to keep on accumulating till you reach your bitcoin target, if you do it the right way and not after little profits or invest over aggressively outside your discretionary income.

The allocation of the money is the important thing so we can continouosly investing in Bitcoin without have a problem in finance. Bitcoin investment is a long term investment so should have patient and focus with that to achieve our goals in the future. Many people forget this rule and become panic especially if they don't have a strong hands.

It is not easy to hodl Bitcoin until the time but that is the challenge that we should face and solve how to hodl Bitcoin with tight. DCA really help those who want to wait with patient and there will be a big reward for them.

Part of the dilemma that you seem to be highlighting traderethereum is that there likely will be some time delay between the period in which guys are accumulating bitcoin and when it might start to make sense for them to start to sell some of their BTC, and some guys deal with the time delay by buing in lump sum within a few periods adn then just waiting for their $100 (or whatever the amount?) to turn into $1 million.

And, then other guys regularly accumulate through a whole cycle or two, and they might not be sure if they need to slow down in their BTC accumulation, yet the size of their BTC holdings as compared to their budget may well start to justify that any additional value that they are putting into their bitcoin holdings does not seem to be causing any material difference.. so at some point they will just tell themselves that it does not really pay to continue to buy bitcoin, unless maybe on dips or on major dips.

Some of the same DCAing guys might get into a rush and start to believe that there might be some benefits to start selling BTC, so hopefully they do not end up in selling too many bitcoin too soon.

...Then just invest on Bitcoin money that you don’t have special allocation on it so that you will keep your finances normal even if a financial problem arise. As already pointed out by JJG, people frequently invest all their money for the sake of profit even though it’s allocated for something important.

A salary earner who invests all their money into Bitcoin for the sake of profits is not a real investor, the person is a trader trying to double his income with the idea of Bitcoin investment but it's a wrong move that would backfire since Bitcoin is a long-term investment opportunity, I mean that the person would be forced to sell at some point especially if he's one who earns on a monthly basis. There's a reason why Bitcoin investment is best done with discretionary funds, cause at that point you've already separated the funds meant to essential expenses from that meant for investment, but going in to the market with all his salary for the month especially if he's yet to meet his target or invest for a decade or atleast one complete circle, would force him to withdraw from his portfolio to solve his essential needs.

And it doesn't take long for him to panic when the market drops sharply. That will make him sell his Bitcoin and think about buying at a low price after the decline is over. And investment should be separate from funds for other purposes so that it will not cause financial difficulties for you in that month or in the coming months. So using all the money for any investment even savings is not a good idea because after all, he must be able to meet all his living needs. This requires an understanding of how to start investing. JJG has shown us how and we can use it or modify it according to our circumstances. We use DCA in investing but the amount of money must be different.

Of course each person should be attempting to tailorize both his bitcoin accumulation strategies and his cashflow management strategies to his own circumstances, so in that regard, each person is likely to have variations in the way that he tailors based on his individual circumstances, even if some guys might have similar goals to accumulate as much bitcoin as they can within their own financial and psychological circumstances.

In this thread, I am trying to suggest ways that guys might manage their BTC once they start to feel that they have enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.. so there is a bit of an assumption of having had already gotten through bitcoin accumulation by the time the ideas of this thread start to become relevant.. such as the employment of sustainable withdrawal practices (price-based and/or time-based).  

I attempt to focus more on bitcoin accumulation strategies and/or cashflow management ideas in my bitcoin investment ideas thread.

Even that bitcoin investment ideas thread is right around 3.5 years old, so sometimes there are desires to attempt to consider and talk about these kinds of investment ideas within a more contemporary and active context, whether related to bitcoinm accumulation, cashflow management or otherwise... so in that regard, it does not hurt to continue to bat around those kinds of ideas within that other thread.

Bitcoin management will depend on how knowledgeable they are about it. But unfortunately, the average person does not want to learn or finds it difficult to learn so they think that investing in Bitcoin is just a one-time purchase and holding it. This needs to be straightened out so that they can change their view that this investment is intended for the long term and is sustainable over time.

You still seem to be grappling with ongoing BTC accumulation questions rather than various questions that might relate to determining whether any of us might have had reached overaccumulation status and/or how to deal with overaccumulation status once we are getting there or getting close to getting there...  which seems to be the topic of my other thread rather than this one.

I think that part of the reason that I tend to be such an advocate of both DCA and also ongoing accumulation of BTC over at least a whole cycle is because I frequently get the sense that the lump summers get sucked into a kind of trader and/or gambler kind of a mentality, which also likely detracts from their learning about bitcoin and perhaps more importantly leaning about their own financial circumstances and/or psychological inclinations (when it comes to how to potentially push cashflow management limits)

If they already understand how to start DCA, they don't need to worry anymore, especially if they are able to allocate some of the money they can afford into Bitcoin investment. They just have to continue their plan to invest in Bitcoin until the target time they have determined.

Sure, DCA happens to be a quite adaptable way of getting into bitcoin, staying involved in bitcoin by allowing a lot of tailoring to a variety of circumstances and even potentially facilitating incentives for guys to ongoingly pay attention to the bitcoin space (including how bitcoin might be affecting their cashflow management practices), yet of course, there can be balancing of lump sum buying, buying on dips and even front-loading that can also be helpful, even if they may alwo may well be allow for the prioritizing of mostly ongoing BTC accumulation through mostly DCA techniques.

I try to invest in Bitcoin every month. Although the amount of money is not as big as other people, it is money that I can afford. So how much money must be adjusted to our income after being reduced by the allocation for daily needs and also for emergency funds. But I'm sure there are many people who have their plans in running DCA.

From my perspective, you seem to be gravitating towards a similar mistake that so many folks end up making, which is tryign to figure out their bitcoin investing approach based on their income rather than based on their discretionary income.

Yeah, sure maybe you are still accounting for your discretionary income first, but you are still seeming to describe the situation from a back-assward way.. at least from my perspective.

Accordingly, it seems to me that guys should be figuring out their income and their basic expenses first in order to establish their discretionary income, and for sure, there are likely so many people who have irregular income and/or irregular expenses, yet at the same time, the more that each of us try to track these matters, we likely would be able to sense patterns.. and also to build up our various back up funds around our cashflows in order to potentially be able to invest in bitcoin every week (to give bitcoin a higher priority in our lives without increasing cashflow management risks), and for sure, I am not proclaiming that you are for sure in a position to be able to just move a few things around and the n be able to go from monthly buying of BTC to weekly buying of BTC, since for sure buys who have relatively small levels of discretionary income are likely going to be challenged no matter what they do, and for sure it is more challenging when the discretionary income is relatively small and perhaps you have already spent quite a bit of efforts trying to increase your discretionary income by increasing your income and/or decreasing your expenses.^**

**Note:  For sure, I am a BIGGER advocate of increasing income rather than decreasing expenses, even though sometimes there can be some reasonable ways that expenses can be adjusted and allow for considerably larger bitcoin purchases and/or better cashflow management since we might end up organizing the expenses and categorizing them better, so in that regard, one great organizing practice may well be to consider how to separate various kinds of expenses in to differing categories.   So you might create categories:
1) basics - absolutely need to survive  - such as basic food, lodging, utilities,

2) advance basics.. difficult to change.. such as extra costs on some of the basic foods, lodging, utilities.- might be able to be cut back

3) related to work transportation costs for work, clothing for work, communication matters phone, computer phone. some times can be cut but will have income related cost

4) more fancy foods, restaurants, entertainment some socializing costs, luxury items that might give status..

5) bad habits maybe easier to cut but does not mean that you want to cut them cigarettes, drinking, junk food, gambling, and even some bad habits might have some benefits or potential benefits

6) whimsical spending - might be easier to cut - sometimes you might even be able to buy in bulk or coordinate with friends, family, neighbors in order get better prices and/or better prices.

Surely some categories are easier to cut than others, and some items you might not know where to put them.. but if you go through your own historical spending or even your planned future spending, you might consider that the reason that you have certain expense might not even necessarily justify the expenses.. especially if you consider cost versus benefits, yet at the same time, you might some costs that have intangible benefits that might be justied to keep in consideration of the intangible benefits