Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean

[DaveF]

I am just going to leave this here, so according to the knots / 110 mob Ocean is now run by Tether:




https://x.com/ConnorsLabYT/status/2095639228504031706


I mean I really got nothin at this point. Luke & co so badly tarnished their image that I can't see them doing anything at the moment but just trying to say above water so to speak.

-Dave

[stompix]

I am just going to leave this here, so according to the knots / 110 mob Ocean is now run by Tether:

If Satoshi would come back, he would prove with his keys, signature, everything that he is the real Satoshi, he would say the same things with no difference whatsoever, the blake2b guys will say he is a bio-engineered clone by the CIA who wants to crash Bitcoin, both the fake bitcoin and the orginal bitcoin which they themslves don't know which is which at this point anymore.

Either way, Ocean has managed to f** up with both sides right now, there is no coming back from them unless they do something radical to change their image, which I can't picture in any way!

[alani123]

Why tf does a pool that just recently barely started breaking even only to lose 2/3 of their hashrste overnight even need a CEO?

They just went full corpo.
I mean yeah, for industry standards the guy is even pretty establishment based.
Not that this changes much.

The advantages OCEAN has were mostly ideological. And their whole operation seems to be based on a handful of large miners providing most of the hashrste. The whole plebs dream collapsed pretty quickly. I don't know how much they're gonna stay alive as a pool of they keep spending dem Dorsey cash stacks so fast.

[DaveF]

Why tf does a pool that just recently barely started breaking even only to lose 2/3 of their hashrste overnight even need a CEO?
.....

Either way, Ocean has managed to f** up with both sides right now, there is no coming back from them unless they do something radical to change their image, which I can't picture in any way!

100% guess here so literally making it up.

But, I can see them getting in a few bigger people who are known in the industry and then going out to larger corporate miners.

It's not a bad pitch. "Look, we got rid of the crazy people, we got rid of the geeks / nerds, we got rid of ...., and we are now a real business run by people in suits who don't have beards that look like they have not been trimmed since the 90s"

I don't know if that would work, but I can 100% see people trying it.

Not like anything could make it worse.

Edit: Not that there is anything wrong with the beard thing, just that some business people dismiss people that look like that.

-Dave

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Edit: Not that there is anything wrong with the beard thing, just that some business people dismiss people that look like that.

Ja. One needs some serious and mostly irreplaceable skill sets to have them overlook it. Same goes for "not being a Team Player".

[DaveF]

Edit: Not that there is anything wrong with the beard thing, just that some business people dismiss people that look like that.

Ja. One needs some serious and mostly irreplaceable skill sets to have them overlook it. Same goes for "not being a Team Player".

Sad but true. Greg Maxwell and Jameson Lopp both come to mind. Either one of them can program circles around me. I would wager that they are better then most things dealing with crypto then me too. But, shove the 3 of us in a job interview for most things and I am the one getting the job offer.

-Dave

[jimbocuzzi]

You are the best i vote for you.

[jimbocuzzi]

One of my S21XP's found a block on ocean

[mikeywith]

Ocean's hashrate has almost doubled in the past 2 days, from an average of 20EH to 38EH, guess how did that happen? I looked at their top addresses and found one intersting addy

Code:

bc1qzk8vs4p3skr75nskpqyh4f9l0z3hmqd2u4tvpu

Interestingly enough, this address has nearly 50% of the entire pool's hashrate, it oddly only has a single user for it's entire 18EH, and the worker name is (Bought_with_BTC) which can be looked up here

https://ocean.xyz/stats/bc1qzk8vs4p3skr75nskpqyh4f9l0z3hmqd2u4tvpu.Bought_with_BTC


Now the funny thing is that this exact user (Bought_with_BTC) is the default worker name of Nicehash easymining, so it is without a doubt bought with BTC, or otherwise I don't know why would they would fake it.

If I had to guess, the fools behind the pool who happen to be rich are pouring money to make the pool look great, finding blocks and all, because they fail in acquiring real large miners with real mining infrastructure and real mining gears, and honestly, if you you access to a few thousands of BTC you can play this game for a very long time, whichever BTC you pour into Nicehash will come back – fees, but you are already collecting fees from the other miners, so you may end up at break even just to prove a point.

[Multani Boy]

Ocean's hashrate has almost doubled in the past 2 days, from an average of 20EH to 38EH, guess how did that happen?

However hashrate rented through NiceHash is added to the total hashrate of the mining pool. The power is real, not fake, so that part is legit. It is just unclear whether it is coming from real users or someone renting the power to create the perception that support for OCEAN is growing. That could be a false perception, but the power itself is legit.

I do not think the worker name will necessarily reveal who is behind it or their intentions, but it might give a clue.

[alani123]

Ocean's hashrate has almost doubled in the past 2 days, from an average of 20EH to 38EH, guess how did that happen? I looked at their top addresses and found one intersting addy

Code:

bc1qzk8vs4p3skr75nskpqyh4f9l0z3hmqd2u4tvpu

Interestingly enough, this address has nearly 50% of the entire pool's hashrate, it oddly only has a single user for it's entire 18EH, and the worker name is (Bought_with_BTC) which can be looked up here

https://ocean.xyz/stats/bc1qzk8vs4p3skr75nskpqyh4f9l0z3hmqd2u4tvpu.Bought_with_BTC


Now the funny thing is that this exact user (Bought_with_BTC) is the default worker name of Nicehash easymining, so it is without a doubt bought with BTC, or otherwise I don't know why would they would fake it.

If I had to guess, the fools behind the pool who happen to be rich are pouring money to make the pool look great, finding blocks and all, because they fail in acquiring real large miners with real mining infrastructure and real mining gears, and honestly, if you you access to a few thousands of BTC you can play this game for a very long time, whichever BTC you pour into Nicehash will come back – fees, but you are already collecting fees from the other miners, so you may end up at break even just to prove a point.

The self proclaimed plebs, aka Luke's fanbase, used to rent hashrate to promote their fork signalling before the algo change fork Luke made.
I doubt it's them now because there's no reason they'd be supporting Ocean after Luke's departure, on bad terms if that matters.

It might have to do with some "statistics" that Ocean released while Luke was still the head of operations, which said that the pool's algo is more efficient at rewarding miners when compared to other pools. That was an indirect accusation of bigger pools using PLNS and any non DATUM mining method that also wasn't controlled by Luke in a shady way to swoop funds away from miners that are hashing towards their servers. So someone might be trying to test the hypothesis, an expensive way to do that for sure though.

[mikeywith]

The power is real, not fake, so that part is legit.

of course it is, it reflects on the number of blocks they found, i am not questioning that part.

It is just unclear whether it is coming from real users or someone renting the power to create the perception that support for OCEAN is growing. That could be a false perception, but the power itself is legit.

I do not think the worker name will necessarily reveal who is behind it or their intentions, but it might give a clue.

We know it comes from a single address so it's certainly coming from a single purchase, I can't think of any reason why would someone rent power from nicehash only to receive less btc in the end, unless that person is trying to test or fake something like the comment above has explained.

[philipma1957]

The power is real, not fake, so that part is legit.

of course it is, it reflects on the number of blocks they found, i am not questioning that part.

It is just unclear whether it is coming from real users or someone renting the power to create the perception that support for OCEAN is growing. That could be a false perception, but the power itself is legit.

I do not think the worker name will necessarily reveal who is behind it or their intentions, but it might give a clue.

We know it comes from a single address so it's certainly coming from a single purchase, I can't think of any reason why would someone rent power from nicehash only to receive less btc in the end, unless that person is trying to test or fake something like the comment above has explained.

lets see how long they do it. a day is meh but a few weeks add up to a good amount of coins.

[mikeywith]

lets see how long they do it. a day is meh but a few weeks add up to a good amount of coins.

Actually even two weeks is not enough, the entire pool's hashrate is what 2%? so variance is massive, if they spend  a100 btc they may make 101 btc or 95 btc, impossible to tell, but we know for certain if measured against infinity its going to be 100 btc - nicehash fees - pool fees, and we also know hashpower cost on nicehash is more expensive than what the miner can make mining to a pool because people buy it to gamble solo blocks and do altcoins mining or attacks, otherwise the actual owner of those miners would just point their gears to ocean pool.

so a long story short, we know for certain that person is losing money, what we can't tell for certain is "why".

[Multani Boy]

lets see how long they do it. a day is meh but a few weeks add up to a good amount of coins.

Actually even two weeks is not enough, the entire pool's hashrate is what 2%? so variance is massive, if they spend  a100 btc they may make 101 btc or 95 btc, impossible to tell, but we know for certain if measured against infinity its going to be 100 btc - nicehash fees - pool fees, and we also know hashpower cost on nicehash is more expensive than what the miner can make mining to a pool because people buy it to gamble solo blocks and do altcoins mining or attacks, otherwise the actual owner of those miners would just point their gears to ocean pool.

so a long story short, we know for certain that person is losing money, what we can't tell for certain is "why".

This tells us what hashrate has been rented, or how much money has been spent, but does not really tell us the motives of the person renting this hashrate. It could be a test. It could be an attempt to show something about OCEAN’s payouts. It could be an attempt to change people's perceptions of OCEAN. None of these explanations is confirmed and it is all speculation at this point.

If the long term expected return is negative then they must have a reason, unless they calculated the costs wrong of course.

[mikeywith]

Hmmm, interesting. The pool's hashrate droped back to it's norm 25eh on the 16th and 17th and then it climbed back up to the upper 30s, and as usual, it's the same address that went down and then up on its hashrate. This doesn't seem like someone chasing profit because currently miners earn slightly more on NiceHash than directly mine BTC, and then you got BCH which pays 2-3% more based on the average of the 3 days shown on whattomine.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

This doesn't seem like someone chasing profit because currently miners earn slightly more on NiceHash than directly mine BTC,

An odd twist would be if they actually own most of the hardware and are renting it out to nicehash...  Possibly they could get both gains from 'selling' hash rate to nh as well as the block reward from Ocean? I suppose it depends on the electric bill.

[alani123]

If anyone had bothered to watch the event livestream when Ocean launched, it became obvious they're starting with a partnership with barefoot mining of Bob Brunette. They were even hosting their event at one of their sites.

But Barefoot isn't hosting all of its hashrate in Ocean, only a fraction. Their press releases now claim they have 10 sites where they produce energy and also host miners. As you can see this press release was published by Braiins, with which they also have a partnership.

They're also a colocation/hosting site offering this service to individuals and companies looking to use a miner remotely. Obviously this can entail people might want to use their own pool. The CEO of Barefoot is also the executive chairman of Ocean now so I assume he's doing a lot to try and direct hash there. It's unclear if it's their hash though.

[mikeywith]

An odd twist would be if they actually own most of the hardware and are renting it out to nicehash...  Possibly they could get both gains from 'selling' hash rate to nh as well as the block reward from Ocean? I suppose it depends on the electric bill.

That's an interesting theory, to be honest, however, I highly doubt it. I could be wrong, and I haven't run the numbers for a bit too long, but on average NiceHash pays the same PPS rate as directly mining to a PPS pool or more (obviously it's the only reason why someone would go through the risk, hassle, and KYC shit of NiceHash).

In the past when nicehash was first launched and probably for a good few years this wasn't the case, and I did write a topic debunking NiceHash claims of miners earning 20% more or so, and showed not only what they said was incorrect, but there were times when NiceHash paid less, but the market has matured eversince and the bots handled everything, I do think that NiceHash folks themselves use that power when rates drop and it becomes profitable for them to use the hashpower they control rather than rent it to somebody else. When the pay rate/bids exceed that limit, it's for their best interest to rent it out and just collect fees.

Sorry for the long explanation above, but long story short, if you factor in nicehash fees and fuckery, it makes no economic sense to point your gears there only to rent it back because you are still going to have to pay a massive fee.

If anyone had bothered to watch the event livestream when Ocean launched, it became obvious they're starting with a partnership with barefoot mining of Bob Brunette. They were even hosting their event at one of their sites.

But Barefoot isn't hosting all of its hashrate in Ocean, only a fraction. Their press releases now claim they have 10 sites where they produce energy and also host miners. As you can see this press release was published by Braiins, with which they also have a partnership.

They're also a colocation/hosting site offering this service to individuals and companies looking to use a miner remotely. Obviously this can entail people might want to use their own pool. The CEO of Barefoot is also the executive chairman of Ocean now so I assume he's doing a lot to try and direct hash there. It's unclear if it's their hash though.

I couldn't care less about Ocean, to be honest, let alone watch their event livestream, but one thing I know for certain is that you need to be either stupid or have other reasons than pure profitability to mine Ocean. Look at how they construct their blocks, they all leave money on the table. See the transactions that were avaiable when they found their blocks vs what they actually included, it's all a fucking mess.

[Multani Boy]

I couldn't care less about Ocean, to be honest, let alone watch their event livestream, but one thing I know for certain is that you need to be either stupid or have other reasons than pure profitability to mine Ocean. Look at how they construct their blocks, they all leave money on the table. See the transactions that were avaiable when they found their blocks vs what they actually included, it's all a fucking mess.

There is some merit to this criticism. When Ocean first started, checksum0 reported that Ocean’s inscription filtering policy meant that its default block templates were leaving an average of 5-10% (and sometimes much more) in fees on the table. This means that Ocean miners were (at least to some extent) on purpose filtering out some transactions, rather than just getting unlucky.
It is also worth keeping in mind that, as talked about in the context of the NiceHash debate, some Ocean miners (meaning those not using DATUM) may be missing out on fees for transactions filtered out by Ocean, but this does not need to be the case for all Ocean miners (for example those using DATUM can build their own block templates and choose which transactions to include). For this reason, it would be wrong to assume that all Ocean miners are simply making the most profit by using Ocean.
Perhaps a more relevant question would be: how much less money are miners making by using Ocean’s default template as opposed to some other template for a given block?