DEMAND - 1st StratumV2 Mining Pool - SOLO

[mikeywith]

How can you even oppose this?

I don't -- i won't try to force anyone not to use it, all am saying is, as a miner I would NOT use a pool that allows human beings to generate their own biased template that would result in a loss of profit for me.

I also explained scenarios of which I would engage in creating my own templates, if all pools are forced to ban certain listed addresses, and said pool would pass the responsibility to me to un-censor those addresses, I would, I would also accept it if another miner does it for the sake of fighting forced censorship, but doing so for any other reason means you are guaranteed to make me lose profit and I do not want to lose money, I also don't know many people who are willing to.

The moment a miner sees his pool making 0.5 btc on fees while there is a potential of 5 btc sitting on their mempool, it would be pretty hard to keep the miner, no sales pitch in the world would fix that, money lost is money lost.

Solo pool, ya great idea -- not solo, i would pass.

Again, i am only stating my opinion, if others are willing to use pools that give users the ability to create transaction biased blocks, be my guest, this would allow the pool is use (that uses default block template) to make even more profit.

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[DaveF]

How can you even oppose this?

I don't -- i won't try to force anyone not to use it, all am saying is, as a miner I would NOT use a pool that allows human beings to generate their own biased template that would result in a loss of profit for me.

I also explained scenarios of which I would engage in creating my own templates, if all pools are forced to ban certain listed addresses, and said pool would pass the responsibility to me to un-censor those addresses, I would, I would also accept it if another miner does it for the sake of fighting forced censorship, but doing so for any other reason means you are guaranteed to make me lose profit and I do not want to lose money, I also don't know many people who are willing to.

The moment a miner sees his pool making 0.5 btc on fees while there is a potential of 5 btc sitting on their mempool, it would be pretty hard to keep the miner, no sales pitch in the world would fix that, money lost is money lost.

Solo pool, ya great idea -- not solo, i would pass.

Again, i am only stating my opinion, if others are willing to use pools that give users the ability to create transaction biased blocks, be my guest, this would allow the pool is use (that uses default block template) to make even more profit.

For pooled mining it also depends on where fees are at the moment and how much is being given up.
Going from 5 to 0.5 is a big deal
Going from .1 to .99991 when spread across a few hundred miners is not even a worry.
What would be is going from X to 0 because someone made a mistake with the template and mined an empty block.

Everyone has their own pain point.

Makes you wonder if you can code the pool to say the optimal block was X but you did Y his cost Z. So now your reward is lowered by Z and given to the other miners.
This way if you paid me to mine your TX I keep the money and nobody else at the pool can complain since they got paid.

Just a thought.

-Dave

[mikeywith]

Makes you wonder if you can code the pool to say the optimal block was X but you did Y his cost Z. So now your reward is lowered by Z and given to the other miners.
This way if you paid me to mine your TX I keep the money and nobody else at the pool can complain since they got paid.

Just a thought.

-Dave

The idea is fine, it is doable, but, a big but would be the miner's actual reward that you can take to pay other miners, if a miner has a hashrate of say 1ph, that earns him 0.1 btc a day, then he sends a block template that loses 1 btc, even if they take his entire reward it won't cover the losses.

So the pool caps this by doing
If (X - Y =< Z )
{accepted}

Else {reject}

Z could either be his hashrate payout or other collateral.

It is doable, but it is a lot of work which could be avoided, so i don't think many pools will even consider doing it.

[Biffa]

This all sounds crazy to me. Maybe I just don't get it

It's gonna be the pool that ends up censoring the transactions surely? Individual miners, or even large farms of miners aren't going to give a fuck about what transactions go in where, they just want the maximum reward for spending all that money on equipment and electricity right?

If it was up to the invdividual miners, say if there are 1000 miners on a pool and 50% of them could not accept a midgetpornmeme transaction and 50% could, or even if there is one pool that doesn't accept a particular transcation but another 4 pools do, I mean whats changed?

So the pools are going to end up doing it, but will it make any difference, and if not why bother doing it unless its just to promote your own pool/code/software and cut some extra profit somewhere on the side for yourself as a company.

Maybe the pool will have a page where you can vote, but then who controls what the other pools do, if they all vote the other way then it doesn't matter.

[DaveF]

This all sounds crazy to me. Maybe I just don't get it

It's gonna be the pool that ends up censoring the transactions surely? Individual miners, or even large farms of miners aren't going to give a fuck about what transactions go in where, they just want the maximum reward for spending all that money on equipment and electricity right?

If it was up to the invdividual miners, say if there are 1000 miners on a pool and 50% of them could not accept a midgetpornmeme transaction and 50% could, or even if there is one pool that doesn't accept a particular transcation but another 4 pools do, I mean whats changed?

So the pools are going to end up doing it, but will it make any difference, and if not why bother doing it unless its just to promote your own pool/code/software and cut some extra profit somewhere on the side for yourself as a company.

Maybe the pool will have a page where you can vote, but then who controls what the other pools do, if they all vote the other way then it doesn't matter.

One of the things that StratumV2 CAN do is allow the individual miners to create their own block template. So you as a miner can submit a block that you want when you find a share that will mine a block.
(not a 100% accurate way of describing it but it works for this explanation) The other miners and the pool have zero say as to what is included in the block that you submitted.

Now.
1) It's a feature of Stratum V2 the pool does not have to support it.
2) As others have pointed out the block that the core client comes up with will maximize fees.

-Dave

[gitgab]

Since it's related to it, under the suggestion of @neutraLTC, I share my work also under this topic.

I'm going to build a testing & benchmarking tool to evaluate Stratum v2 (SRI) protocol performances in different mining scenarios.
I made a draft documentation of the tool here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uckx4os7laxKkJIc8QBOm5HlQuKcEHkvQa4szlAqcM8/edit#heading=h.c4oi55seebkm.
I'd love to get as many feedback as possible from miners and pools operators. My goal is to validate the tool docs, especially the metrics mentioned there, before starting to build it.

I also created a survey to collect feedback and suggestions here: https://47r5o81bk9b.typeform.com/to/bBgHVBl3.
Feel free to share it with miners/pools you know, it would be really appreciated 🙏

Original topic discussion at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5481634.0

Thank you

[kano]

Well stratum is about 15MB a day - to compare to
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg41861265#msg41861265

[neutraLTC]

We have released an sv2 proxy called demand_all_in_one the binaries are available here:
https://github.com/demand-open-source/stratum/releases/tag/DEMAND

You can use it for testing the demand job declaration functionality, for now only available on the solo pool.

Since is not yet stable the proxy  fallback   to ckpool if it the user hash rate that read from the pool is 0 for more than 3 minutes.

In order to try block declaration you have to run a TP https://github.com/Sjors/bitcoin/releases/tag/sv2-tp-0.1.2

the is a patched bitcoin node so you run like it but you have to add the sv2 options
-sv2 -sv2port=8442  -sv2interval=30 -sv2feedelta=2000 port must be 8442

otherwise the proxy will not work
when the TP is ready you chain as synced and you see in the log sv2 thread start you can launch the proxy
the proxy require only one argument the address of your solo pool proxy_bin -a [address] for example demand_all_in_one_sv2-x86_64-linux-gnu  -a bc1qxy2kgdygjrsqtzq2n0yrf2493p83kkfjhx0wlh

then you can point your miners to ip_of_the_pc_that_is_runing_the_proxy:34255`

[neutraLTC]

Step-by-step Guide for StratumV2 Solo mining on  DEMAND

download (or build) patched bitcoind binaries from here https://github.com/Sjors/bitcoin/releases/tag/sv2-tp-0.1.2
⛏️⛏️After, click on bitcoin-sv2-tp-0.1.2-x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.gz to download the patched bitcoind that support StratumV2 (this is the Linux binary)
⛏️⛏️https://github.com/Sjors/bitcoin/releases/download/sv2-tp-0.1.2/bitcoin-sv2-tp-0.1.2-arm64-apple-darwin.tar.gz (this is the MAC binary)
run the patched bitcoind with this command:
⛏️⛏️ ./bitcoind -sv2 -sv2port=8442 (you MUST use this port otherwise the proxy will not work)
⛏️⛏️you can add other flags if you need them
⛏️⛏️the node will not enter a ready state for mining until any block is found on the network.
⛏️⛏️⛏️Note: Once you launch the node and the chain is synced, you'll need to wait for a new block before launching the proxy.
wait for the chain to sync
download or build demand all in one proxy from here https://github.com/demand-open-source/stratum/releases/tag/DEMAND
⛏️⛏️Click on Release (right hand side) to find the proxy
⛏️⛏️This is the proxy: demand_all_in_one_sv2-x86_64-linux-gnu and download
⛏️⛏️⛏️NOTE: only available for MAC and LINUX
Once downloaded, run or execute it with ./demand_all_in_one_sv2-x86_64-linux-gnu -a bc1qxy2kgdygjrsqtzq2n0yrf2493p83kkfjhx0wlh <- this would be your valid bitcoin address where you would receive your mining reward
⛏️⛏️Multiple miners are able to mine to one address
Run it
As soon as you see INFO demand_solo_all_in_one::translator: Connected to Upstream! ....\
⛏️⛏️ point your miners to ip_address_of_the_machine_running_the_proxy:34255

Congratulations miner! You are now helping maintain bitcoin mining healthy and decentralized with StratumV2 DEMAND.

You may enter the command - - help for other options

You can skip all this and solo mine sv1 with this endpoint: mining.dmnd.work:1000

Thank you
DEMAND team