Ordinal blockchain irking me, causing almost $40 median fee now...

[OROBTC]

...

mempool.space

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   


       


Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

[1714802192]

1714802192

[1714802192]

1714802192

[Upgrade00]

It's a pain, but the only option is to wait. Consolidating multiple small inputs have been impossible impractical since October and looms to remain so for sometime more. It's ridiculous the amount of fees paid on regular transactions, much less one with lots of inputs.

If you're in a hurry, try using a transaction accelerator and a lower fee (above the minimum for the mempool now).

[hatshepsut93]

Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

Why would that happen? We all know that during bull run alts get pumped too, so ordinals would likely skyrocket together with Bitcoin and speculators will be able to afford higher fees.

Bitcoin's main use case is investment and speculative trading and the fees are a result of that - those who make trades with thousands of dollars in profits can easily afford to pay $40 fees.

[PX-Z]

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???  

A good wallet to use like electrum then ignore the high fees, inout a smaller fee which sat/vb then use viabtc free accelerator, or use a small fee then just wait. That's the thing you can do.

Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

That wouldn't happen anytime soon, higher btc price means higher fees too in terms of USD value.

[MusaMohamed]

That wouldn't happen anytime soon, higher btc price means higher fees too in terms of USD value.

I agree that the congestion in mempools won't be cleared soon.

It is seriously congested and hours ago, some impatient people even were ready to spend 600+ satoshi/vbyte to have a quick confirmation. Now, it is about 400 satoshi/vbyte.
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),24h,weight

I care more about the fee and fee rate in BTC, satoshi when I move my bitcoins. Transaction fee value in USD is not what I care because I can not control it but I can control what satoshi/vbyte I use for my transaction.

Any satoshi I can save from transaction fee now might help me in future when Bitcoin has higher price.

[naira]

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   
 

I also feel the same frustration as you, but there is nothing we can do other than just setting sat/vb. Even if the total cost is greater than the amount sent the solution is for me personally to wait. Because this is a bullrun phase where speculators are very aggressive in the market and we cannot control that. OOT, I even received news from a friend who attended the Taipei Blockchain event where one of the developers had plans to build a large project on Bitcoin Layer 1 and this project has now received massive support from Bitcoin maximalists. I was quite surprised because this will also result in even higher transaction costs in the future.

[Luzin]

...

mempool.space

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   


       


Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

Even I was very scared, when the price of BItcoin reached ATH and the transaction price was very expensive when I wanted to sell BTC that I kept in a personal wallet.  Currently, transactions and fees are rising because some tokens are created using the BTC blockchain. If I'm not mistaken, it's BRC-20. Like Ordi, they crowded the Bitcoin network because of the large number of transactions. There are currently 24,677 tokens created on the Bitcoin network.

CMIIW

[Poker Player]

What a crazy thing out there. Luckily I haven't had small inputs for a while thanks to having consolidated with the minimum fee when I could and thanks also to having read LoyceV's useful thread about it. The best thing to do now is to wait. Paying $15 per transaction is not going to last forever.

[nutildah]

Its indeed a giant pain in the B. But it appears to come in waves, and I'm also of the opinion that it won't last forever. Its no longer just Ordinals / BRC-20 that is congesting the mempool, however. Regular BTC users are now competing with Bitcoin Stamps, SRC-20, and now also BTNS (Broadcast Token Naming system), of which tens of thousands of transactions have been made for within the last couple months. Certainly renders making normal transactions out the window for the time being.

[Despairo]

Yesterday someone celebrated Ordinal inscriptions hit 48 Millions mark

I don't think the higher BTC price will stop them, there are many transactions I see they don't mind to spend 3 times more than the current fees. We can only warn other people to not jump into this scam tokens and NFTs, although most of them won't listen.

[Haunebu]

Jesus! It's messed up seeing BTC TX fees actually competing with ETH TX fees these days. Blasted ordinals are clearly the primary culprit and they aren't slowing down since their popularity continues to surge.

The word 'NFT' irks me personally these days. Heard about this one dude who paid over 3 freaking million bucks for a BTC transaction recently. Absolute insanity!

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-user-pays-3-1m-in-transition-fee-for-one-139-btc-transfer

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

Its indeed a giant pain in the B. But it appears to come in waves, and I'm also of the opinion that it won't last forever. Its no longer just Ordinals / BRC-20 that is congesting the mempool, however. Regular BTC users are now competing with Bitcoin Stamps, SRC-20, and now also BTNS (Broadcast Token Naming system), of which tens of thousands of transactions have been made for within the last couple months. Certainly renders making normal transactions out the window for the time being.

It actually comes in waves and so far in 2023 that is around its corner of ending, there are three waves of mempool congestions and crazy fees. Those waves are in May, November and December.

Inscriptions, Mempools and Miners. This Glassnode Insight report is in September so it does not have information about what happened in November and December.

This mempool link has more information https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),1y,weight

This wave of Ordinals caused more congestion in mempools and fee rates jump to highest range in 2023. It is even worse than in December 2017 https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),all,weight

[pooya87]

Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

That's unlikely because we already know that with each bull market there is a large number of newcomers who buy bitcoin. We also know that a considerable percentage of these newbies tend to go to the shitcoin market and start buying shitcoins for the first time not knowing what kind of garbage they are wasting their money on.

This means that this time these newbies would also go to this new but fake market called Ordinals Market and try to pay for that garbage hence making the scam spam attack even worse and shoot the fees even higher.

As I've said many times before the severity of this attack is only increasing with time and possibly with price rise.

[jrrsparkles]

Its possible to stop BRC20 spams from congesting the network and the fix is expected to be with v27.0 in May so until that these attack will remain on the network but we don't know that these spams can be cleared away forever so let's hope the stupid investors don't invest their money on shitcoins that is congesting the BTC network anymore.

[icalical]

Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

Or maybe until people stop buying ordinals and the hype ends. This shouldn't last long, could be just another trend. Currently the only solution is, as stated by many other are using accelerator.
To be honest I never expect that the day will come when Bitcoin blockchain are popularly used to issuing nonsense like NFT. We got enough smart-contract platform to issue NFT, people doesn't seem to feel enough of everything.

[alexforneus]

All what BRC20 story made BTC blockchain much worse. Everyone hated ETH for its fees but now even BTC have that 40USD fees. And this story may be for months or even years if devs will not do anything (they will not). Sad. There are not so much crypto merchants and even less of them accepts anything that is not btc.

[LogitechMouse]

As of this moment, the "Low Priority" transaction is at 475 sat/vB which is around $27.
TBH, this is the highest transaction that I've seen ever since. The largest that I saw was way back in 2017 when it was around $23.

Right now, Bitcoin is unusable for small transactions because of these high transaction fees. Maybe if you send huge amounts of Bitcoin then you don't care about the fees, but for the average investors who are using the DCA strategy, it's kind of nonsense to do it because of what's happening. The only option that I see is to use another altcoin, send it to an exchange, convert it into Bitcoin then STORE it there. That's if you want to risk your assets.

I wonder how the signature campaigns that are paying their participants through Bitcoin will react to this one. Nevertheless, this ordinal thing causes trouble to us average investors. TBH, I might opt to invest in other top altcoins then will just convert it into Bitcoin once transaction fees go back to normal.

P.S. It's already at $34 per transaction. It's just a bit surprising that there are still many people who are still transferring their Bitcoins despite it's high fees.

[boyptc]

It sucks, ordi, sats, etc. all of these are causing the pain. I thought that we will see some light this weekend with the fees but no, we do not.

I am not also willing to pay such fees with small transactions. I might just pay that fee if I have got hundred thousand transactions to a millions.

 

[CODE200]

All what BRC20 story made BTC blockchain much worse. Everyone hated ETH for its fees but now even BTC have that 40USD fees. And this story may be for months or even years if devs will not do anything (they will not). Sad. There are not so much crypto merchants and even less of them accepts anything that is not btc.

I think it's obvious already that these inscriptions are just a pain in the ass for many of us that's using bitcoin to do some sort of transactions because the tx fees that we could've used for other stuff, we have to spend it on tx fees. The reason that these ordinal shit is still existing is that the miners will be the one that's affected because this is a gold mine for them, the higher the tx fees, the bigger they're getting out of this so unless they don't mind the developers putting a stop to this ordinals, we won't see any changes anytime soon.

[Lucius]

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   

Some would easily tell you that you should consider other options when it comes to payment, whether it's using altcoins or even paying through a bank. Given that we have more and more ordinal nonsense on the blockchain, it seems that we are heading towards a situation where on-chain transactions will become so expensive that most people will not want to pay for them. But don't worry, guys who invest through BlackRock & Fidelity won't have those problems.

As of this moment, the "Low Priority" transaction is at 475 sat/vB which is around $27.
TBH, this is the highest transaction that I've seen ever since. The largest that I saw was way back in 2017 when it was around $23.

It was much more than that, even more than $50 in 2017 and more than $60 in April 2021. Of course there were other reasons then, but who cares about reasons when they see such fees - Bitcoin is dead, again

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#alltime

[snipie]

It sucks, ordi, sats, etc. all of these are causing the pain. I thought that we will see some light this weekend with the fees but no, we do not.

I am not also willing to pay such fees with small transactions. I might just pay that fee if I have got hundred thousand transactions to a millions.

 

Better to keep our money in the safe until the fees drop a little. I was obliged to spend earlier an amount of bitcoin equivalent to $500 and paid like $27 for the transaction to be done quickly because I was in hurry and you can imagine how happy I was doing it!
I used to spend 1/10 of that fees price, it is just ridiculous. That's why some people just use altcoins for daily, fast and numerous transactions. If I wasn't in rush, the fees would be much lower at that time

[boyptc]

It sucks, ordi, sats, etc. all of these are causing the pain. I thought that we will see some light this weekend with the fees but no, we do not.

I am not also willing to pay such fees with small transactions. I might just pay that fee if I have got hundred thousand transactions to a millions.

 

Better to keep our money in the safe until the fees drop a little.

Yup.

Money is money and we won't pay that high fees. A $15 or $20 is still something that I can spend for some other better things if I don't have much at all to transact.

Thus, there's no expiration of these holdings that we've got so there's no need to push these transactions at the moment.

I was obliged to spend earlier an amount of bitcoin equivalent to $500 and paid like $27 for the transaction to be done quickly because I was in hurry and you can imagine how happy I was doing it!
I used to spend 1/10 of that fees price, it is just ridiculous. That's why some people just use altcoins for daily, fast and numerous transactions. If I wasn't in rush, the fees would be much lower at that time

Ridiculous but it is what it is when you need the money asap.

[Luzin]

I think it's obvious already that these inscriptions are just a pain in the ass for many of us that's using bitcoin to do some sort of transactions because the tx fees that we could've used for other stuff, we have to spend it on tx fees. The reason that these ordinal shit is still existing is that the miners will be the one that's affected because this is a gold mine for them, the higher the tx fees, the bigger they're getting out of this so unless they don't mind the developers putting a stop to this ordinals, we won't see any changes anytime soon.

Before BRC-20 or Ordinal the issue of Scalability had been a major discussion. A few years ago Bloksize had reached an agreement to be enlarged. But zooming in on scalability would add to Bitcoin's weakness. So it seems to be a new problem. As long as developers continue to use the BTC blockchain, this problem will not be resolved. It will continue to get congested and reduce confidence in BTC due to the slow network. Banning the development of BRC-may be a solution but since the blockchain network is open it seems impossible. I just kept worrying when my wallet only supported Bitcoin and there was no other cheaper transfer alternative so my transfer fee was more expensive than the amount of BTC I sent.

[KiaKia]

I was on phone with a family member yesterday discussing about how ordinals will affect the performance of Bitcoin in the next bull market, it will be almost impossible to sell your Bitcoin and take profit instantly because $100 on one transaction is in sight already, I believe we will see this target in a bull market.

The even sad part is that many new BRC20 projects are in the making and people are investing heavily on them, as if they believe it will make them rich in a bull market, this will consume the whole bitcoin network and many people will be pissed.

It's really a shame that we have to deal with this, I don't even want to imagine it as it will get very ugly, it's not an exaggeration, because even before Ordinals came we always have high transaction fees to pay when Bitcoin makes a new all time high.

[Arenga pinnata]

...

mempool.space

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   


       


Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

But after Brc-20 tokens started to be issued one by one on binance I started to be pessimistic that the ordinal hype would end soon. Maybe this will last quite a while. Seeing fees that continue to be high without decreasing really makes everyone who wants to make small transactions currently confused. Because the amount of fees spent can be greater than the amount of BTC that will be sent. And if the fee is reduced, transactions will only continue to float and will not be confirmed in the near future. Unless you use Accelerator. I hope the fees can return to normal again. But maybe we'll have to wait a little longer for the hype to end. Because as I read, this is not because the price of bitcoin is rising or because of a bull market. But because the hype on the Brc-20 network still continues.

[Alpha Marine]

All what BRC20 story made BTC blockchain much worse. Everyone hated ETH for its fees but now even BTC have that 40USD fees. And this story may be for months or even years if devs will not do anything (they will not). Sad. There are not so much crypto merchants and even less of them accepts anything that is not btc.

It's so frustrating. Things like this hinder Bitcoin adoption. It doesn't matter if the whole world uses Bitcoin, people get frustrated when they can't send and receive their Bitcoin within minutes.
Bitcoin adoption to me is when I can send and receive Bitcoin anywhere at any time, not just how many people use Bitcoin.

You could wait hours, a whole day in some cases before a transaction can be confirmed. Using an accelerator won't even let you confirm the transaction on time, you've got to wait a few more hours depending.

[Wind_FURY]

...

mempool.space

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???  


       


Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

You know what should irk you more? When a bad actor uses Ordinals to build a sustainable market to keep Bitcoin congested. Plus what would definitely irk you most would be when an "Ordinals-based" company called "Tap Protocol" raises millions of U.S. Dollars to develop and build apps on top of Bitcoin for gaming and "decentralized finance", which will keep the network congested.

But how long will the excitement around Ordinals/BRC-20 continue? I believe we could ask Ethereum users. How long have their users lived through high fees? Since 2017?

[DooMAD]

Its possible to stop BRC20 spams from congesting the network and the fix is expected to be with v27.0 in May

I keep seeing people saying this, but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up.  Don't believe everything you read.  One dev had some premature ideas and made a big song and dance of it on social networks and then the media picked it up.  Aside from that, no one else seems to be taking things any further.

[dansus021]

your story same as I do https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5473421.0

The fees are crazy and the miner is at the peak of profit right now

I notice it before the ordinal even existed when bitcoin pumps the bitcoin network will be hit hard by the congestion.

[Wind_FURY]

Its possible to stop BRC20 spams from congesting the network and the fix is expected to be with v27.0 in May

I keep seeing people saying this, but I honestly wouldn't get your hopes up.  Don't believe everything you read.  One dev had some premature ideas and made a big song and dance of it on social networks and then the media picked it up.  Aside from that, no one else seems to be taking things any further.

What's the "fix"? What I read is the "fix" is nodes won't broadcast Ordinals and BRC-20 transactions across the network. But can't Ordinals/BRC-20 users merely send their transactions directly to the miners and have them included in their blocks for confirmation?

your story same as I do https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5473421.0

The fees are crazy and the miner is at the peak of profit right now

I notice it before the ordinal even existed when bitcoin pumps the bitcoin network will be hit hard by the congestion.

It's different today. I don't think I saw the fees surge this high and stay high this long before. I have argued for censorship-resistance and that they have the same right is everyone to use the network, but I'm annoyed and I am worried to be honest.

[Out of mind]

Currently, the transaction fees for Bitcoin transactions are truly surprising. Due to high transaction fees many users are struggling and unable to complete transactions, leaving them with no option but to reduce sat/vt. But if you want to transact more amount of money, then there is no problem if you charge a little more fee in that case. But when trading small amounts, you must wait until the high pressure level of trading subsides.

[DooMAD]

What's the "fix"? What I read is the "fix" is nodes won't broadcast Ordinals and BRC-20 transactions across the network. But can't Ordinals/BRC-20 users merely send their transactions directly to the miners and have them included in their blocks for confirmation?

There isn't a fix.  Short of abandoning all pretense of permissionless freedom on the Bitcoin network (which is obviously an untenable position).

Someone on GitHub referred to luke-jr's pull request as an:

easily worked around hack.

I'm in full agreement with that assessment.  It doesn't "fix" anything.


My instinct is to take the stance that many here in the community at the moment don't fully appreciate what we have.  They've got Bitcoin, but they only deserve something like Ripple.  That's a network where they prioritize fees over freedom.  I want no part of networks like that and that's why I'm here.  All the people whining about ordinals should ask themselves what they're still doing here.  Ingrates.

[pooya87]

What's the "fix"? What I read is the "fix" is nodes won't broadcast Ordinals and BRC-20 transactions across the network. But can't Ordinals/BRC-20 users merely send their transactions directly to the miners and have them included in their blocks for confirmation?

That's correct but lets first consider how this attack works and why.
Unlike previous spam attacks when a centralized entity has to spend money out of pocket create large number of transactions paying increasing amount of fee to clog the network, this time it is regular users who are brainwashed into thinking what they are buying is an NFT token so they spam the chain themselves.

If these abusive transactions become non-standard (nodes stop relaying them) it could potentially eliminate a large number of attackers (aka the regular brainwashed newbies I mentioned above) because for starters they don't even know how to use bitcoin. Additionally any kind of workaround with extra steps where they have to contact a miner covertly and have them mine their transaction is too complicated for them. Not to mention that it would be possible that the pool demands extra payments (fiat payment paid separately to the pool owner).
This is my speculation but I'd say it has a good chance of being correct.

[Wind_FURY]

What's the "fix"? What I read is the "fix" is nodes won't broadcast Ordinals and BRC-20 transactions across the network. But can't Ordinals/BRC-20 users merely send their transactions directly to the miners and have them included in their blocks for confirmation?

There isn't a fix.  Short of abandoning all pretense of permissionless freedom on the Bitcoin network (which is obviously an untenable position).

Someone on GitHub referred to luke-jr's pull request as an:

easily worked around hack.

I'm in full agreement with that assessment.  It doesn't "fix" anything.


My instinct is to take the stance that many here in the community at the moment don't fully appreciate what we have.  They've got Bitcoin, but they only deserve something like Ripple.  That's a network where they prioritize fees over freedom.  I want no part of networks like that and that's why I'm here.  All the people whining about ordinals should ask themselves what they're still doing here.  Ingrates.

To put ourselves in their shoes, I believe they ARE actually asking themselves what are they still doing here. People who merely want to use Bitcoin to send small amounts of value across the network are priced out by users who think that they're dick pics and fart sounds have value.

During the next cycle, the issue/debate might be who should now bear the cost of using the network. It will be another debate about the block size, because a mere block size increase will transfer the cost from the users to the node operators.

What's the "fix"? What I read is the "fix" is nodes won't broadcast Ordinals and BRC-20 transactions across the network. But can't Ordinals/BRC-20 users merely send their transactions directly to the miners and have them included in their blocks for confirmation?

That's correct but lets first consider how this attack works and why.
Unlike previous spam attacks when a centralized entity has to spend money out of pocket create large number of transactions paying increasing amount of fee to clog the network, this time it is regular users who are brainwashed into thinking what they are buying is an NFT token so they spam the chain themselves.

If these abusive transactions become non-standard (nodes stop relaying them) it could potentially eliminate a large number of attackers (aka the regular brainwashed newbies I mentioned above) because for starters they don't even know how to use bitcoin. Additionally any kind of workaround with extra steps where they have to contact a miner covertly and have them mine their transaction is too complicated for them. Not to mention that it would be possible that the pool demands extra payments (fiat payment paid separately to the pool owner).
This is my speculation but I'd say it has a good chance of being correct.

If it's truly a nefarious entity that's using Ordinals as an attack vector, then that entity will provide tools and apps for newbies to make it easier to send their Ordinals transactions to a miner.

[pooya87]

If it's truly a nefarious entity that's using Ordinals as an attack vector, then that entity will provide tools and apps for newbies to make it easier to send their Ordinals transactions to a miner.

We always make spam harder not impossible. Every single standard rule can be broken if you contact a miner. But mining pools aren't the most willing to become pariahs in the Bitcoin community by explicitly accepting something that is being rejected by majority of the network as non-standard (assuming it gets implemented for Ordinals Attack!) which means we make it "harder" to spam.

You should also consider the pool owner's fear of having their mined block rejected. Take a look at this case here. A perfectly valid but non-standard transaction that they refused to include in their blocks regardless of its high reward. It took more than a year and an actual block being mined on testnet to show them it is valid to get it picked up.

[retreat]

I also feel the same as you feel, since I have to wait for the fees to decrease so that my transaction can be processed. Just imagine I have to spend 13 USD just to process a payment worth 60 USD, it just doesn't make sense.
I understand that congestion is a normal thing, especially if Bitcoin is entering a bull market, and all we have to do is wait until the network can return to normal. But how can we possibly convince people to use Bitcoin when this congestion continues and developers don't seem to be taking any good steps? If problems like this continue to occur and Bitcoin core devs seem to turn a blind eye to it, I'm worried about the future of Bitcoin

[davis196]

...

mempool.space

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   


       


Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

I can't see a direct correlation between the Bitcoin price and the "ords infecting the mempool".
Do you really think that a 70-80K USD Bitcoin price would miraculously lower the transaction fees on the blockchain?
A higher price means that the short term demand for BTC increased, which means more BTC transactions on the blockchain and more transactions mean higher fees and longer confirmation time. Off chain solutions like the Lightning Network still can't get mainstream adoption.
Removing the ordinals from the blockchain would most likely lower the amount of transactions(and the fees), but the miners want higher fees and more revenue.

[TrustedBitcoiner]

I also feel the same as you feel, since I have to wait for the fees to decrease so that my transaction can be processed. Just imagine I have to spend 13 USD just to process a payment worth 60 USD, it just doesn't make sense.
I understand that congestion is a normal thing, especially if Bitcoin is entering a bull market, and all we have to do is wait until the network can return to normal. But how can we possibly convince people to use Bitcoin when this congestion continues and developers don't seem to be taking any good steps? If problems like this continue to occur and Bitcoin core devs seem to turn a blind eye to it, I'm worried about the future of Bitcoin

Pretty sure high fees forever is the end game for bitcoin. Without fees miners will have no incentive to secure the network, and since increasing block size is out of the question, then higher fees is the only way forward.

Ordinals might have prematurely brought on the high fees, but make no mistake it is very much the plan for bitcoin transactions to be expensive.

[pinggoki]

Tell that to the miners that are getting all the benefits out of this stupid trend. It's weird to me that the devs aren't doing anything about this or are they stalling because they're somehow benefiting from all of this ordinal shenanigans? Good thing I'm hodling for the long-term because if not I would've been losing a lot of my stash in transaction fees.

[TrustedBitcoiner]

Tell that to the miners that are getting all the benefits out of this stupid trend. It's weird to me that the devs aren't doing anything about this or are they stalling because they're somehow benefiting from all of this ordinal shenanigans? Good thing I'm hodling for the long-term because if not I would've been losing a lot of my stash in transaction fees.

A few year ago "big blockers" lost their shit over the devs plans to have high fees forever on BTC and have all low value transactions goto LN, do you not remeber that?
now we are locked in...
Layer1 is for high value transactions only ( ex Elon musk selling tickets off this sick sad world) and Layer2 is for the presents ( ex you buying a 12pack of beer and bag of chips )

pretty sure devs arent doing anything about this because its plays in prefectly into their plans to get you on "btc's second layer"

[pinggoki]

~

A few year ago "big blockers" lost their shit over the devs plans to have high fees forever on BTC and have all low value transactions goto LN, do you not remeber that?
now we are locked in...
Layer1 is for high value transactions only ( ex Elon musk selling tickets off this sick sad world) and Layer2 is for the presents ( ex you buying a 12pack of beer and bag of chips )

pretty sure devs arent doing anything about this because its plays in prefectly into their plans to get you on "btc's second layer"

But I've heard that there's already a solution to this and that they're not just deploying it, if I recall correctly this ordinal is a vulnerability and they already identified the vulnerability and know the solutio to it. I don't remember much about what you're talking to but I'm sure the devs didn't have that plan.

[Wind_FURY]

If it's truly a nefarious entity that's using Ordinals as an attack vector, then that entity will provide tools and apps for newbies to make it easier to send their Ordinals transactions to a miner.

We always make spam harder not impossible. Every single standard rule can be broken if you contact a miner. But mining pools aren't the most willing to become pariahs in the Bitcoin community by explicitly accepting something that is being rejected by majority of the network as non-standard (assuming it gets implemented for Ordinals Attack!) which means we make it "harder" to spam.

Ser, what makes everything in the network stick together is the incentives. The Core Developers are more than welcome to find a technical solution to prevent the "feature" from being abused, but if you believe miners and mining pools will stop doing their jobs and  start rejecting particular transactions, then you will be disappointed.

You should also consider the pool owner's fear of having their mined block rejected. Take a look at this case here. A perfectly valid but non-standard transaction that they refused to include in their blocks regardless of its high reward. It took more than a year and an actual block being mined on testnet to show them it is valid to get it picked up.

But if censoring trivial transactions such is Ordinals is in the future of Bitcoin, then imagine what other transactions they could start to censor. What would be the of POW in such a future?

[shield132]

~I made some snips~
mempool.space
I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   
Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

There is no option other than to wait. While you wait, feel free to use altcoins with low transaction fees. There is simply no other option.
Btw I think transaction fees will go way high when bitcoin price increases because we have experienced similar fee issues during bull runs when there were no ordinals.

It's a pain, but the only option is to wait. Consolidating multiple small inputs have been impossible impractical since October and looms to remain so for sometime more.

It was my huge mistake to combine small inputs into a single one, today I can't do it. I need to make a Bitcoin transaction, even with the coins control option on Electrum, making a transaction with 1 input and 1 output costs me a lot, but it isn't worth it.

If you're in a hurry, try using a transaction accelerator and a lower fee (above the minimum for the mempool now).

Which free transaction accelerator? ViaBTC is immediately filled and there is no other free transaction accelerator. Paid ones cost too much to handle.

[DooMAD]

It's weird to me that the devs aren't doing anything about this

It's not that they "aren't doing anything".  There's just some disagreement in how best to do something about it, without causing damage elsewhere.

But I've heard that there's already a solution to this and that they're not just deploying it

Not exactly.  The proposed "solution" was akin to building a short fence that someone could easily step over.  It wasn't robust.

[nutildah]

Nobody's bothered posting what Adam Back had to say about the situation, so here you go:



I don't always agree with him, but what he says makes a lot of sense here. There's no point in continuing to have unreasonable expectations about the devs doing something to suit your whims.

It's weird to me that the devs aren't doing anything about this

[bettercrypto]

...

mempool.space

I don't want to spend $40 to consolidate here.  I guess I'll just have to wait.  And wait & wait & wait???   


       


Maybe only a much higher BTC price will stop those ords from infesting the mempool....

The Bitcoin fee yesterday was really crazy, the charge fee was around 43-44$, in fact it reached around 600 sats using mempool. And this is the image you can see below.



Then now he is still high which can be considered to be around more than 200 sats. The amount of the fee is a big deal to me and the size of the amount being deducted from my balance is a bit painful, but I can't do anything like you said but just wait for the bitcoin fee to drop again.

[NotATether]

I refuse to apply any transaction fee below 50 sats/vbyte . Maybe if I'm desperate, I will use 75 sats/vbyte but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to pay hundreds of sats per byte just to get a transaction confirmed.

[pooya87]

But if censoring trivial transactions such is Ordinals is in the future of Bitcoin, then imagine what other transactions they could start to censor. What would be the of POW in such a future?

I still don't get why some people insist of using the false term "censorship" when referring to an "exploit fix".
But as I've said a million times, we've been "censoring" a lot of abusing transactions that would fall under similar protocol exploits for as long as Bitcoin has existed so I don't see how things would be any different if we fix this newest exploit in the protocol!

[/url]

That's complete and utter nonsense. The tweet itself is a paradox! Layer suggests it is on top of something else, meaning the "base" has to work fine for the layer to also work. For example you can't apply a coat on an already corroded (rusty/pitted) iron and claim things are fine now!

If making an on-chain transaction is extremely expensive and nearly impossible for regular users because some scammers are using an exploit to spam the chain, nobody would ever bother using Lightning Network that requires on-chain settlements.

He is essentially saying that Bitcoin is for scammers that have money and incentive to spam the chain at any cost (fees) and we're not gonna do anything about it; and the real Bitcoin users should stop using Bitcoin!!!
The community needs to beware of naïve statements such as this and I'm too kind for calling it naïve and not malicious.

[franky1]

But if censoring trivial transactions such is Ordinals is in the future of Bitcoin, then imagine what other transactions they could start to censor. What would be the of POW in such a future?

arnt you and your forum daddy the guys that are screaming that bitcoin cant cope with all bitcoiners transacting and instead the limits should not be raised to allow more bitcoiners space on the bitcoin network... you instead want bitcoiners to use another network... while then acting the idiots by saying bitcoin can cope with the junk so do not touch the junk...

seems to me you want bitcoin to be a junk network just to promote another network as the go to thing..

seems like you are censoring bitcoiners while allowing junkers

..
many years ago. devs actually cared about byte utility where code actually made rules to decide what belongs in a block. where transaction formats actually had format conditions and content expectation..

all this crappy "assume valid" "is valid"(no expectation of content to validate) has shown how many transactions these days are not actually fully validated anymore.. but a certain idiot group dont care because its an advert for their preferred other network they want people to migrate over to

[nutildah]

I still don't get why some people insist of using the false term "censorship" when referring to an "exploit fix".
But as I've said a million times, we've been "censoring" a lot of abusing transactions that would fall under similar protocol exploits for as long as Bitcoin has existed so I don't see how things would be any different if we fix this newest exploit in the protocol!

I don't get why you're using the term "we." You haven't been doing anything. Neither have I, but I don't harbor any sort of delusion that its at all up to me. The people who do have any sort of say are probably doing some careful balancing of pros and cons, putting a lot of consideration into potential "fixes" before taking any kind of action.

That's complete and utter nonsense. The tweet itself is a paradox! Layer suggests it is on top of something else, meaning the "base" has to work fine for the layer to also work.

The base layer is working fine. Its doing exactly what its supposed to do.

[digaran]

Adam Back seems to be a reasonable and conservative kind of guy, I don't know him at all but based on that tweet, I'd say he is right, IMO it's not good to censor, they need to make the cloud storage expensive enough to make it a balanced situation, where monetary transactions pay less, but ord/garbage pay more.
There is also another option, all monetary users either use LN/second layers, or move to alts temporarily and when miners see everyone has left, they would submit to even a hard fork if there is a need. 😉

[Wind_FURY]

But if censoring trivial transactions such is Ordinals is in the future of Bitcoin, then imagine what other transactions they could start to censor. What would be the of POW in such a future?

I still don't get why some people insist of using the false term "censorship" when referring to an "exploit fix".
But as I've said a million times, we've been "censoring" a lot of abusing transactions that would fall under similar protocol exploits for as long as Bitcoin has existed so I don't see how things would be any different if we fix this newest exploit in the protocol!

In your own personal opinion it's an "expoit". But if it's functioning within the consensus rules, then technically it isn't. But this is is what I'll tell you, and I believe we could be of the same opinion,

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

[franky1]

In your own personal opinion it's an "expoit". But if it's functioning within the consensus rules, then technically it isn't. But this is is what I'll tell you, and I believe we could be of the same opinion,

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

they use a validation bypass mechanism.. a thing that is bad for bitcoin.. known as a trojan horse
i know you got your scripts from your forum daddy.. but for once try to actually learn about bitcoin.

bitcoin was made to validate data, and know the purpose of each byte..
by you wanting validation bypasses and junk and uncounted bytes.. your the idiot

the validation bypass is the exploit
bitcoins consensus have softened over the years allowing more exploits

learn this stuff instead of promoting you want more of it

years ago there were not this many opcodes that bypassed validation.. learn who added them
learn how they softened consensus
learn who and when things happened.. and i emphasis this. dont ask your forum daddy. he has no clue

they did not all exist in bitcoin from 2009.. no matter how much your forum daddy tries to imply they were
learn bitcoin. learn the scripts you recite are wrong and you are the idiots promoting that exploits should not be fixed..
listen to yourself trying to allow more exploits.. listen to how screwed up you sound wanting to make bitcoin worse

[blckhawk]

It's a pain, but the only option is to wait. Consolidating multiple small inputs have been impossible impractical since October and looms to remain so for sometime more. It's ridiculous the amount of fees paid on regular transactions, much less one with lots of inputs.

If you're in a hurry, try using a transaction accelerator and a lower fee (above the minimum for the mempool now).

That's not the option that people like me can take though, I need to pay some loans and stuff in bitcoin so I can't afford that transaction fee to be higher than the usual when I do transactions. Thankfully, the people that I've owed to are considerate and that they don't mind me not paying for awhile as long as the price of the transaction isn't going to go down. I don't get what's the hype behind these ordinals, I've seen this before shared by my connection in LinkedIn and I've read what it is, can't find the point of the inscriptions and the utility of these, I just hope the miners get tired of all these.

[franky1]

I just hope the miners get tired of all these.

miners are not involved.. they have no decision on transactions

POOLS decide on the transactions.. hope POOLS get tired of it

[ABCbits]

Nobody's bothered posting what Adam Back had to say about the situation, so here you go:

I'd rather not pay $9.67 (current high priority fee from https://mempool.space/) just to open LN channel when i don't plan to pay with Bitcoin frequently. And while you can exchange for Bitcoin located on sidechain (such as L-BTC and R-BTC), you'll need to prepare altcoin or fiat if you want to avoid high fees on Bitcoin on-chain.

[nutildah]

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

I'm willing to be you most miners don't see it as an "attack vector." So long as somebody is paying a fee, the system is working as intended.

[franky1]

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

I'm willing to be you most miners don't see it as an "attack vector." So long as somebody is paying a fee, the system is working as intended.

miners dont see the transactions!!

mining pools decide on the transactions
stop using the scripted PR campaign shown to you by dumb-dumb group to try to make it as if its the miners are the cause

miners dont handle transactions.. they just SHA256 hash
miners are not making political decisions on code
miners do not write code
miners did not open the exploit
miners are not the ones to fix the exploit
the exploit has nothing to do with asic firmware
thus has nothing to do with miners

the core devs opened the exploit the core devs can close it.
adam back is not even a dev. but a manager of the devs and he has commanded that they do nothing..
he hypocritically then says devs should work on other networks and promote other networks instead.. as the things bitcoiners should use (facepalm)

core devs should fix bitcoin issues not be subverted into helping subnetworks become popular due to their employers politics

bitcoiners should not be made to move over to other networks

bitcoin devs should concentrate on bitcoin issues not the politics of their employer

[jeraldskie11]

I just hope the miners get tired of all these.

miners are not involved.. they have no decision on transactions

POOLS decide on the transactions.. hope POOLS get tired of it

But since the mining pool is a group of miners they still can't do anything with it.

So the best way to do if we are not in a hurry if we transfer Bitcoin is to wait or do a transaction with specific fee you can afford and later on when the Bitcoin fee went back to normal it will immediately being processed.

The cause of this is network congestion, which is caused not only by an increase in Bitcoin demand, but also by the quick growth of brc-20 tokens..

[Wind_FURY]

In your own personal opinion it's an "expoit". But if it's functioning within the consensus rules, then technically it isn't. But this is is what I'll tell you, and I believe we could be of the same opinion,

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

they use a validation bypass mechanism.. a thing that is bad for bitcoin.. known as a trojan horse

 

frankandbeans, you're making it sound as if there's truly an "exploit" that "hackers" could covertly use to break the consensus rules. Laughable.

[TrustedBitcoiner]

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

I'm willing to be you most miners don't see it as an "attack vector." So long as somebody is paying a fee, the system is working as intended.

miners dont see the transactions!!

mining pools decide on the transactions
stop using the scripted PR campaign shown to you by dumb-dumb group to try to make it as if its the miners are the cause

miners dont handle transactions.. they just SHA256 hash
miners are not making political decisions on code
miners do not write code
miners did not open the exploit
miners are not the ones to fix the exploit
the exploit has nothing to do with asic firmware
thus has nothing to do with miners

the core devs opened the exploit the core devs can close it.
adam back is not even a dev. but a manager of the devs and he has commanded that they do nothing..
he hypocritically then says devs should work on other networks and promote other networks instead.. as the things bitcoiners should use (facepalm)

core devs should fix bitcoin issues not be subverted into helping subnetworks become popular due to their employers politics

bitcoiners should not be made to move over to other networks

bitcoin devs should concentrate on bitcoin issues not the politics of their employer

i'm not sure there is much the devs can do

makeing Ordinal transactions invalid would require a hardfork, miners wont go for that...

making Ordinals a type of "spam" that minners can choose to include or filter out of their blocks is the only way forward (isnt?) and its hard to see how much hashing power would choose to filter Ordinal and massivly cut into their profit margin, for some minners not including this spam might make them unprofitable...

[dansus021]

It's different today. I don't think I saw the fees surge this high and stay high this long before. I have argued for censorship-resistance and that they have the same right is everyone to use the network, but I'm annoyed and I am worried to be honest.

Yes its totally different its not just because bitcoin get pump high it is also because the ordinal transaction it does really push the limit of bitcoin, the ordinal should think again tho since if there any "real user" that using ordinal they should worry about the growing fee like this.

Image the NFT marketplace with high fee for long period of time, I do believe this will got abandoned soon unless there is fishy reason behind this transaction

[franky1]

In your own personal opinion it's an "expoit". But if it's functioning within the consensus rules, then technically it isn't. But this is is what I'll tell you, and I believe we could be of the same opinion,

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

they use a validation bypass mechanism.. a thing that is bad for bitcoin.. known as a trojan horse

 

frankandbeans, you're making it sound as if there's truly an "exploit" that "hackers" could covertly use to break the consensus rules. Laughable.

you do realise that this junk is causing a form of DDoS attack. stopping users having the ability to transact freely
you do realise by not needing general population full node vote of readiness before activation. a sybil attack by economic nodes can mandate pools comply or have their blocks rejected(yep it happened and is backed up by blockdata and code)
look into the NYA look into things like blockstream Fibre, look into the mandates. look into the blockdata to show real versions of events
look how "nonstandard" used to not relay pre-confirm. and now does
see how things have changed

consensus has been softened, it has never been this soft since the start

start caring more about bitcoin for your own funds security, rather than your forum daddys emotional security

consensus has already been compromised.. LEARN "backward compatibility"
nodes no longer validate all data. they allow junk in and nodes cant veto an upgrade anymore

thats what core love, being able to trojan in new funfy stuff nodes dont understand without the consent of the masses
learn what this entire issue is all about. and no dont ask your forum daddy for a new script to recite full of silly buzzwords you dont understand
learn about bitcoin for once

core added a f*ck-tonne of new opcodes that bypass validation.. they then use the strawman that there is no point stopping one opcode because exploiters will just use one of the other..
well disable the pre-confirm relay of the f*ck-tonne (they refuse because it then requires node readiness to then activate, meaning they cant slide new funky tx formats in themselves
but by having node readiness before activation means the network secures itself again. as it should do to prevent a dev from just sliding things in before nodes are ready

and no dont respond that core devs should be permissionless and should be able to do anything without consent.. because thats BAD security to allow them full control with no responsibility/consent of the majority of the network

[BitcoinCanSaveUsAll]

The solution is really quite simple.  Just run a bitcoin core node in v 20.x and you won't pass along the mempool spam that's increasing the fees.  Also I would suggest enabling the permitbaremultisig=0 is set.  Just my 2 sats.

[Natsuu]

It's different today. I don't think I saw the fees surge this high and stay high this long before. I have argued for censorship-resistance and that they have the same right is everyone to use the network, but I'm annoyed and I am worried to be honest.

Yes its totally different its not just because bitcoin get pump high it is also because the ordinal transaction it does really push the limit of bitcoin, the ordinal should think again tho since if there any "real user" that using ordinal they should worry about the growing fee like this.

Image the NFT marketplace with high fee for long period of time, I do believe this will got abandoned soon unless there is fishy reason behind this transaction

Right and it’s understandable to be concerned about the prolonged surge in fees, especially when it affects censorship. The strain on Bitcoin's network due to high transaction volumes does raise valid worries because users rely on the network for genuine transactions like those in the NFT marketplace. I think balancing scalability with decentralization remains a challenge for blockchain but we’ll get there

[pooya87]

In your own personal opinion it's an "expoit". But if it's functioning within the consensus rules, then technically it isn't. But this is is what I'll tell you, and I believe we could be of the same opinion,

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

We've already established this a long time ago. I believe it was in spring!
Everyone who disagreed with me calling it "Attack" agreed that Ordinals is using an exploit in the protocol to spam the chain ergo it is an exploit itself.

Keep in mind that saying "it is functioning within the consensus rules" doesn't change the fact that it is an exploit. Consensus rules can be broken and in need of a fix too. Sometimes it is a very severe case like the value overflow incident[1], sometimes it is less severe like the countless number of cases being patched by standard rules.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident

[Wind_FURY]

In your own personal opinion it's an "expoit". But if it's functioning within the consensus rules, then technically it isn't. But this is is what I'll tell you, and I believe we could be of the same opinion,

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

they use a validation bypass mechanism.. a thing that is bad for bitcoin.. known as a trojan horse

 

frankandbeans, you're making it sound as if there's truly an "exploit" that "hackers" could covertly use to break the consensus rules. Laughable.

you do realise that this junk is causing a form of DDoS attack.

 

"DDOS Attack". The network congestion IS TRULY annoying, but there isn't anything like what you're making everyone believe that there's an "exploit" that "hackers" have been using covertly to break the consensus rules. The high fees are simply the product of increased demand for having their transactions to the next block + the fee market.

Can anti-Bitcoin trolls use that to take advantage and spam the network? Yes they could, but it will come with a cost of paying higher fees. The bad-actors will waste their Bitcoins merely to cause a temporary inconvenience. From Bitcoin's viewpoint, where did it fail? Because it didn't. It's still chugging along producing block after block, incentiving miners for providing security the network.

In your own personal opinion it's an "expoit". But if it's functioning within the consensus rules, then technically it isn't. But this is is what I'll tell you, and I believe we could be of the same opinion,

- Ordinals by itself is not technically an "exploit", BUT it can be used as an attack vector to impede and interrupt financial transactions in the Bitcoin blockchain.

We've already established this a long time ago. I believe it was in spring!
Everyone who disagreed with me calling it "Attack" agreed that Ordinals is using an exploit in the protocol to spam the chain ergo it is an exploit itself.

Keep in mind that saying "it is functioning within the consensus rules" doesn't change the fact that it is an exploit. Consensus rules can be broken and in need of a fix too. Sometimes it is a very severe case like the value overflow incident[1], sometimes it is less severe like the countless number of cases being patched by standard rules.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident

But if it isn't breaking the consensus rules, then technically, it isn't an "exploit". Perhaps in your opinion it is, but it's debatable.

[mrust_mobile]

It's a pain, but the only option is to wait. Consolidating multiple small inputs have been impossible impractical since October and looms to remain so for sometime more. It's ridiculous the amount of fees paid on regular transactions, much less one with lots of inputs.

If you're in a hurry, try using a transaction accelerator and a lower fee (above the minimum for the mempool now).

Wait… and quit using btc because if you keep using btc at the moment you will be sitting on a bigger problem than you previously had. Every incoming btc tx on your wallet will increase the consolidation price. It is already bad when you have 10 unconsolidated inputs and imagine what will happen when you have 100 or more.

There was another guy on another thread who paid 300+ sats/b but still waiting in the queue for hours because he had 500 unconsolidated inputs.

[ABCbits]

I just hope the miners get tired of all these.

miners are not involved.. they have no decision on transactions

POOLS decide on the transactions.. hope POOLS get tired of it

But since the mining pool is a group of miners they still can't do anything with it.
--snip--

But don't expect pool to follow miner's demand, unless many of them retaliate by moving to different pool.

Can anti-Bitcoin trolls use that to take advantage and spam the network? Yes they could, but it will come with a cost of paying higher fees. The bad-actors will waste their Bitcoins merely to cause a temporary inconvenience. From Bitcoin's viewpoint, where did it fail? Because it didn't. It's still chugging along producing block after block, incentiving miners for providing security the network.

Almost 2 months is more than temporary inconvenience[1].



[1] https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/charts/average-transaction-fee-usd

[Wind_FURY]

Can anti-Bitcoin trolls use that to take advantage and spam the network? Yes they could, but it will come with a cost of paying higher fees. The bad-actors will waste their Bitcoins merely to cause a temporary inconvenience. From Bitcoin's viewpoint, where did it fail? Because it didn't. It's still chugging along producing block after block, incentiving miners for providing security the network.

Almost 2 months is more than temporary inconvenience[1].



[1] https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/charts/average-transaction-fee-usd

Two months might not be enough time to say that it will be permanent. Plus the Core Developers would probably be in a better position to do something if they study the issue more slowly/carefully. Bitcoin is currently valued at almost $1,000,000,000,000. That's ALMOST ONE TRILLION. The developers SHOULD be more careful and they shouldn't do anything too hastily. Because if the network breaks, there goes the evolution of money.

[franky1]

Two months might not be enough time to say that it will be permanent. Plus the Core Developers would probably be in a better position to do something if they study the issue more slowly/carefully. Bitcoin is currently valued at almost $1,000,000,000,000. That's ALMOST ONE TRILLION. The developers SHOULD be more careful and they shouldn't do anything too hastily. Because if the network breaks, there goes the evolution of money.

you are saying things without understanding what you are saying (you are on autopilot)
you are reciting your forum daddy without knowing what you are saying

its funny because, by closing the exploit of using unconditioned(validation bypass) opcodes, it would then require core to not be able to just throw any new format in when they want and instead need to actually propose stuff and get the network onboard before activating again..

your forum daddy hates that old version of consensus requiring network readiness before activation.
your forum daddy prefers core to have absolute permissionless control to slide in changes at a whim without consent of the masses, he loves speedy implimentations. he adored the fact that core after 10 months of only achieving 45% willingness of old consensus(nov 2016-june2017), then pushing through a mandated change in 2 months(july2017 aug 2017)

understand how your forum daddy tells you silly things but then cant back up what he tells you because he has a different agenda then the one he portrays
like pretending he hates ordinals.. but secretly loves them because he doesnt want them to stop. even though he wants normal bitcoins to stop using bitcoin.. he loves high fee's. he wants the fee wars to continue.. read how many posts he literally jizzes at when he says the buzzword "freemarket"

[FP91G]

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

On Thursday, Ocean—the company behind the mining pool of the same name—said that miners can now decide if they want to process Bitcoin blocks that contain non-financial transactions. Previously, the pool prohibited such actions.

While the announcement did not expressly name it, many Bitcoiners speculate that the “spam” Ocean referenced in its announcement refers to the wildly popular Ordinal inscriptions that have flooded the network in 2023.
https://decrypt.co/210662/bitcoin-ordinals-critic-caves-jack-dorsey-backed-ocean-mining-pool-flips-inscriptions

[pooya87]

But if it isn't breaking the consensus rules, then technically, it isn't an "exploit". Perhaps in your opinion it is, but it's debatable.

It is an exploit when it is not the expected behavior and when it is using an oversight by the developers who left the validation rules loose.

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

On Thursday, Ocean—the company behind the mining pool of the same name—said that miners can now decide if they want to process Bitcoin blocks that contain non-financial transactions. Previously, the pool prohibited such actions.

That sounds like a good move and it has nothing to do with "having a change of heart" about the attack known as Ordinals. Not just miners, but also full node operators should have the choice of what they want to relay specially when it comes to abusive spam transactions.

[mrust_mobile]

I don’t think we should call these transactions “spam” if some people somewhere willing to pay thousands of dollars to create catpic transactions.

The feature shouldn’t have been there in the first place.

Now it is there and the demand is clearly big for that kind of use, bitcoin can’t be used as a currency anymore. It is because some people somewhere are willing to pay a lot more than those who want to use btc as a currency.

This is a free market indeed which works against the people who want to use bitcoin as intended (or used to be)

Despite all the smarts Vitalik had, even eth couldn’t handle the abuse which came from crypto kitties. Who teh fuck thought bitcoin could succeed it?

Protocol-wise it is not an attack.

The attack is the dumb dev who implemented it.

[Wind_FURY]

Two months might not be enough time to say that it will be permanent. Plus the Core Developers would probably be in a better position to do something if they study the issue more slowly/carefully. Bitcoin is currently valued at almost $1,000,000,000,000. That's ALMOST ONE TRILLION. The developers SHOULD be more careful and they shouldn't do anything too hastily. Because if the network breaks, there goes the evolution of money.

--Snip--

I know what you're doing frankandbeans, but it's OK. I'm a mere pleb who's merely walking a path of my own Bitcoin journey.

But what every newbie needs to see is your trust-rating and ask, should they listen to a troll that spreads misinformation, or listen to two trustworthy people in the Bitcoin community who are, not by coincidence, Bitcoin Core developers.

But if it isn't breaking the consensus rules, then technically, it isn't an "exploit". Perhaps in your opinion it is, but it's debatable.

It is an exploit when it is not the expected behavior and when it is using an oversight by the developers who left the validation rules loose.

That's precisely the point, it's debatable. Because other developers/users, and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with them, would consider it a "solution" to the problem "How do we bring NFTs and tokens in the Bitcoin blockchain". It might be an inefficient, inelegant "solution", but for them it's probably enough to build on.

[franky1]

I know what you're doing frankandbeans, but it's OK. I'm a mere pleb who's merely walking a path of my own Bitcoin journey.

you are not on your own path.. thats the issue..
so much so you cant even think up your own buzzwords, heck you cant even think up your own insults

But if it isn't breaking the consensus rules, then technically, it isn't an "exploit". Perhaps in your opinion it is, but it's debatable.

It is an exploit when it is not the expected behavior and when it is using an oversight by the developers who left the validation rules loose.

That's precisely the point, it's debatable. Because other developers/users, and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with them, would consider it a "solution" to the problem "How do we bring NFTs and tokens in the Bitcoin blockchain". It might be an inefficient, inelegant "solution", but for them it's probably enough to build on.

they are not even NFT.. thats how badly you have been indoctrinated into a certain agenda
you dont even understand the things you talk about. you only support their continuance because someone else told you they should continue.
even if its affecting you negatively you ignore how it affects you and instead want the junk to continue because someone else told you it benefits them..
your going against your own value security, your own risk measure, your own needs just to stay with a path that someone else has taught you to recite.. you really do sound brainwashed when you repeat certain things.
try to find your own path and stop being a sheep/echo of other people. they are not helping you

..
see how you have been trained wrongly by your forum daddy..he made you believe they are NFT
as for my trust rating GUESS WHO INSTIGATED it.. yep the crowd your forum daddy adores and cries to each time he is proven wrong

your like an idiot at school that asks the head teacher to talk to someone and then uses the teacher talking to them as an excuse as to why no one should listen to the truth because your crowd cry so much

how about stop crying when proven wrong and instead just learn bitcoin and use blockdata and code .. instead of each others cries and hugs and ass kisses to back each other up

GROW UP, essentially

[ABCbits]

Can anti-Bitcoin trolls use that to take advantage and spam the network? Yes they could, but it will come with a cost of paying higher fees. The bad-actors will waste their Bitcoins merely to cause a temporary inconvenience. From Bitcoin's viewpoint, where did it fail? Because it didn't. It's still chugging along producing block after block, incentiving miners for providing security the network.

Almost 2 months is more than temporary inconvenience[1].

[1] https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/charts/average-transaction-fee-usd

Two months might not be enough time to say that it will be permanent.

I didn't say it'll be permanent.

Plus the Core Developers would probably be in a better position to do something if they study the issue more slowly/carefully. Bitcoin is currently valued at almost $1,000,000,000,000. That's ALMOST ONE TRILLION. The developers SHOULD be more careful and they shouldn't do anything too hastily. Because if the network breaks, there goes the evolution of money.

Ordinals gaining popularity since early 2023 and it's not first time people add arbitrary data to Bitcoin blockchain or we experience high fees. I expect few Bitcoiner claim it's already broken due to high TX fees. And if they plan to introduce new change, they'll test it first on dedicate test network (such as segnet for testing SegWit) so they wouldn't break Bitcoin network.

[Rampagoe004]

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

On Thursday, Ocean—the company behind the mining pool of the same name—said that miners can now decide if they want to process Bitcoin blocks that contain non-financial transactions. Previously, the pool prohibited such actions.

While the announcement did not expressly name it, many Bitcoiners speculate that the “spam” Ocean referenced in its announcement refers to the wildly popular Ordinal inscriptions that have flooded the network in 2023.
https://decrypt.co/210662/bitcoin-ordinals-critic-caves-jack-dorsey-backed-ocean-mining-pool-flips-inscriptions

This really sucks but this is a reality that we have to accept. This means that the existence of Ordinals is enough to make costs rise so high that it is impossible to carry out small transactions at the current costs. I don't know clearly what Ordinals are but from some of the replies above it seems like it's something similar to NFTs on the ethereum network, right? What is the motivation for people to create NFTs on the Bitcoin network when we know that it will be a huge burden on the network? Is there a particular website where we can make Ordinals transactions? Are there already examples of Ordinals that are similar to NFTs? For example, a particular image?

So what are the possibilities for a solution using LN to speed up transactions at low costs?

[Z390]

I made some transaction this morning using my trust wallet but I noticed that the auto transaction fee is almost $20, imagine I don't know that one can adjust the fee? The question is why these wallets are asking for such ridiculous fee and when you adjust them it still send the Bitcoin fast.

This isn't fair for those coming into Bitcoin right now and the existence of ordinals isn't even necessary,  I understand that Bitcoin mining will be less profitable as time goes on and the existence of Ordinals will make Bitcoin mining great again but what about the users?

I don't hate ordinals, but still I wish it never existed, now there is going to be multiple new projects running on this BRC20 and there is nothing anyone can do than to accept this BTC fate, even if BTC transaction fee goes down it will never last even in a bear market.

[God bless u]

What a crazy thing out there. Luckily I haven't had small inputs for a while thanks to having consolidated with the minimum fee when I could and thanks also to having read LoyceV's useful thread about it. The best thing to do now is to wait. Paying $15 per transaction is not going to last forever.

Bro considering the current network situation and how the blockchain is congested due to Ordinal chaos. if your transaction gets confirmed for only $15 transaction fee than I think you getting a great deal there. I've seen people paying as much as 0.001 BTC (around $43) per transaction. which is really crazy. it used to be $1 to $5 (10k Satoshi) a few months ago.
According to t a CoinDesk Article this is Since April 2021 (2 years ago)
https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/12/18/bitcoin-fees-spike-to-2-year-high-as-ordinals-bonanza-gives-windfall-profit-to-btc-miners/