Bitcoin losing its P2P efficiency!!

[ThemePen]

This is just due the f*cking ordinals. The Bitcoin fee was normal or even low in previous days. And I hope this will go down because these ordinala are not long lasting. Soon they will not exist in the crypto world.
By the way there is one more reason, the popularity and adoption of Bitcoin increased, the congestion in the mempool and the competition for block space led to noticeable increases in transaction fees.
As we can see the Bitcoin Price is increasing, with this significantly the transaction fee also increasing. Hope it will come down soon.

[franky1]

This is just due the f*cking ordinals. The Bitcoin fee was normal or even low in previous days. And I hope this will go down because these ordinala are not long lasting. Soon they will not exist in the crypto world.
By the way there is one more reason, the popularity and adoption of Bitcoin increased, the congestion in the mempool and the competition for block space led to noticeable increases in transaction fees.
As we can see the Bitcoin Price is increasing, with this significantly the transaction fee also increasing. Hope it will come down soon.

there are ways to identify transactions that use particular unconditioned "non standard" (validation bypass) opcodes.. where by code can punish only the junkers at a higher rate.. but dev politics have other games in mind to make bitcoin annoying for all, so they can promote other networks and systems users should use to pay middlemen.. to reimburse devs sponsors

[DapanasFruit]

There is no question that there is really a big problem with Bitcoin in terms of adoption especially in small transactions...like buying a cup of coffee or paying one's groceries in the mart. And that is why many are looking at Bitcoin as an investment or speculative asset just like the real physical gold...no one is bringing gold to a store to buy some water in the bottle. Now, is this good or bad? I am not sure but for sure the P2P potential of Bitcoin is really getting limited...that is for now until working solutions can be found on this situation which am sure will come one day.

[TrustedBitcoiner]

It's important that bitcoin remains as decentralised as possible, the added value of having low value transactions directly on the L1 is not enough of a reason to compromise on bitcoin's decentralisation.

lower fee do not cause more centralisation.. its actually the opposite way round

when fee's are high users lock their value to middlemen, causing more centralisation of fund control

when mining pools get too much profit. they buy more asic farms to centralise the hashing. but the distributed hobby miners due to not having great deals on electric and hardware cannot buy as many asics in one go to compete.

when pools take a 2% cut of reward + X% of fee's they can expand their single location asic farm faster than hobby miners distributed around the world getting only 0.000x% share of reward+fees

it doesnt matter how high the fee's go the individual independent asic owners cannot compete compared to the pool owners

its the economics of any industry manager-worker relationship
if general income is X but manager gets 2% and worker gets 0.0002% the more income the business earns the manager profits the most

think about it.. (asic costs $4k)
if a manager gets 2% of $270k ($5375) he can add 4 new asics every 3rd block
if a worker gets 0.0002% ($0.54) he can get one new asic once every 7400 blocks

fanky
I do not give a rats ass about the techinals.. i dont...
give me max decentraliation on btc layer 1
nothing else matters.


it dosnt matter if L2 is full of KYC, the only thing that is improtent is that L1 remains 150% decentalized peer to peer digial cash, because without that we are nothing.

you get wqhat im saying??

i DONT CARE if lighting sucks because XYZ, as long as L1 is 110% decentralied. and all the good things that come with that.

[Solosanz]

there are ways to identify transactions that use particular unconditioned "non standard" (validation bypass) opcodes.. where by code can punish only the junkers at a higher rate.. but dev politics have other games in mind to make bitcoin annoying for all, so they can promote other networks and systems users should use to pay middlemen.. to reimburse devs sponsors

Let's punish ordinals transactions, let's punish mixers transactions, let's punish gambling transactions, let's punish transactions without any identity etc, and then only allow coins that come from centralized exchanges.

Now Bitcoin is fully centralized since the pools only allow transactions from centralized exchanges, I guess this is what people wants?

[Hatchy]

Transactions fees temporarily spike every once in a while. And every time that happens so many people feel the need to make these doom and gloom threads about Bitcoin not working anymore.

Yes, concluding that Bitcoin has already lost its features might not make sense to me either. Bitcoin transaction fees have experienced numerous spikes over the years, which persisted for a while but eventually returned to normal. The recent surge is becoming excessive due to the ordinals that are disrupting the blockchain. Apart from that, the rate of Bitcoin adoption has increased over the years compared to what it was before. With the upcoming bull market, a lot of new investors will flood the market, leading to more congestion of the mempool. I don't see this as a negative impact on Bitcoin, but rather a positive one. This is because the more investors we have in the Bitcoin market, the higher its value becomes, providing more profits to its early adopters.

The high transaction fees may not be long-lasting. However, for now, investors should seek other means that might help reduce their transaction costs (LN, ACCELERATORS). Micro-businesses that have been relying on Bitcoin transactions should consider using their fiat or other cryptocurrencies.

[CODE200]

This is just due the f*cking ordinals. The Bitcoin fee was normal or even low in previous days. And I hope this will go down because these ordinala are not long lasting. Soon they will not exist in the crypto world.
By the way there is one more reason, the popularity and adoption of Bitcoin increased, the congestion in the mempool and the competition for block space led to noticeable increases in transaction fees.
As we can see the Bitcoin Price is increasing, with this significantly the transaction fee also increasing. Hope it will come down soon.

Definitely the goddamn ordinals, there's no utility that I can see in these ordinals besides the fact that they generate more profit for miners because the mempool becomes more congested which makes it more expensive for us to do transactions because ordinals are considered a transaction too which makes the queue much longer and so they payment for priority gets more expensive. I share the same hope as you, that ordinals are going to perish eventually but right now, it seems that there's some groups of people that aren't happy with it having to go away so either we get more patient with our transactions since the optimal thing to do is set the fee to a lower than usual amount and wait for the transaction much longer or we just don't do a lot of transactions for now or maybe lessen it.

[Dump3er]

One or the Most significant reasons for the creation of Bitcoin was,to create a currency easy and suitable to be used for peer-to-peer transactions.
During the first eight to nine years of its launch, Bitcoin actually achieved this goal, With fees considerably low as just a few cents. However things began to change at about early 2016 when fees began to increase noticably, and during late 2017 when the mempool started having congestions, which influenced transaction fees directly.

Of course, One can say the reason for the very low fees during its earliest stages was a result of low adoption and a less congested mempool. We can also confirm that due to the problems of competition for block spaces which led to high fees, Bitcoin's block size was increased on August 24, 2017 by the application of the SEGWIT protocol upgrade known as "Segregated witness" in full. This definitely helped in malleability of transactions by separating the signature data (withness data) from the transaction data to free up block space.

Other solutions like the layer 2 that became popular during 2018,also helped reduce congestions and fees by conducting majority of transactions off the Blockchain making transactions more scalable and faster.

However, upon these upgrades and solutions, as Bitcoin grew the congestion problem has  become more and more prominent especially due to the effects of ordinals in recent times.These congestion and fee problems are gradually exempting the need to make simple day to day transactions with Bitcoin thereby bring the need for people to make small transactions with other stable altcoins like Tron and Doge.

Take for example this post made by Hhampuz who is one of the most reputable campaign managers on Bitcoin talk.
In that post Hhampuz made mention of spending roughly $200 /week on fees for each campaign. Now assuming Hhampuz managess 5 campaigns for 15 weeks, taking the math he would have spent an enormous amount of about $15,000 (~0.34BTC) on fees only. Considering these enormous fees P2P transactions would become  uneconomical.

Whether we like it or not, but one of the most important value propositions of BTC was its unshakable foundation for censorship-resistant data inscription and transfer. Everyone remembers how ETH got once criticized for their move to hard fork and role back the network history. Now I understand that conditions are different, but one thing is the same: we are talking about core principles being eroded. I don't have a clear cut opinion on that, but I think it is important to gather info, insights and opinion to come with one's own point of view.

In this case I think Adam Back has a strong point when he says

"...the high fees drive adoption of layer2 and force innovation..."

as he also adds that there will be other ways to inscript stuff that overload the network. I feel the frustration about the high fees too, but the discussion about the if and the why is important. 

[Agbe]

You know the truth: Bitcoin has just become an investment scheme. Everyone just wants to make money from Bitcoin investments; hence, no one cares about the real goal of Bitcoin. True, Bitcoin still uses a peer-to-peer payment method, but it is insignificant in comparison. Due to the high fees, it has become hard to make payments in any marketplace through Bitcoin. Because congested network transaction times wouldn't meet with the payment gateway. In this manner, it's true that Bitcoin is losing efficiency. Developers should find a solution to reduce transaction fees and avoid congested networks.

You just spoke my mind. I don't know what they are still waiting for when the large number of people are crying about the high transaction fee and yet they are giving deaf ears. This is something that need urgent attention. Government can't destroy Bitcoin because it does not have a central server that use to store data control information but the users can make a stop to it once they stop using it then the coin will become worthless. Bitcoin is valued because the users are many and if the transaction fee is like this then many will back out. And I am suspecting that it is the government that is bringing this ordinals. I'm suspecting that this is the only way they are using to deal with bitcoin. Developers should take a drastic step to coil the situation fast so that investors will come to site. As it is everybody is afraid because they don't know if they invest they would make profit from it.

[gunhell16]

We know that as the Bitcoin network becomes overloaded, transaction fees will rise, causing problems for holders who perform transactions here.
Then, when it comes to scalability, we know that the Bitcoin network has a limited amount of transactions per second, and this constraint, or in another phrase, blocksize, is what creates a delay or backlog in transaction confirmation, further affecting p2p efficiency.

Overall, even if Bitcoin is losing its peer-to-peer efficiency, I believe it will stay an opinion. Because, as far as I can tell, both perspectives are equally valid. Then there's the question of what I see in the future of Bitcoin's p2p capabilities. This is only my view.

[Kakmakr]

Yes and No....

The congested Mempool is part of a coordinated attack and not the normal day2day transactions that we are supposed to have on a daily basis. We also know if more people used the Lightning Network for daily transactions, then congestion on the Blockchain would not have been an issue.

We should allow the developers to find counter measures for these kinds of attacks and we should also allow for Bitcoin enthusiasts to solve the mystery of who is behind these attacks.  

[Marvell1]

This is just due the f*cking ordinals. The Bitcoin fee was normal or even low in previous days. And I hope this will go down because these ordinala are not long lasting. Soon they will not exist in the crypto world.
By the way there is one more reason, the popularity and adoption of Bitcoin increased, the congestion in the mempool and the competition for block space led to noticeable increases in transaction fees.
As we can see the Bitcoin Price is increasing, with this significantly the transaction fee also increasing. Hope it will come down soon.

Definitely the goddamn ordinals, there's no utility that I can see in these ordinals besides the fact that they generate more profit for miners because the mempool becomes more congested which makes it more expensive for us to do transactions because ordinals are considered a transaction too which makes the queue much longer and so they payment for priority gets more expensive. I share the same hope as you, that ordinals are going to perish eventually but right now, it seems that there's some groups of people that aren't happy with it having to go away so either we get more patient with our transactions since the optimal thing to do is set the fee to a lower than usual amount and wait for the transaction much longer or we just don't do a lot of transactions for now or maybe lessen it.

We all wish ordinals would go away and transaction fees would return to normal, but do you think that will happen? Because if we think more carefully, we can see that there are many people who benefit from high transaction fees. So I seriously doubt that Ordinals or BRC-20 will disappear from the market anytime soon. I even see the BRC-20 trend becoming stronger as they are supported by major exchanges.

I don't know if the developers have a solution for this problem, but I don't think Ordinals will disappear as many people expect, and the solution of waiting for them to disappear is not feasible because there are many people who are benefiting greatly from there.

[avp2306]

Sad part here is there's less number of people use bitcoin for p2p transactions but rather majority choose altcoins even before since it gives them convenience especially on transaction speed and fees. Right now majority of people use bitcoin for investment since this is what inserted first on their mind and they always speculate on when the price it pump and how much price they could sell it on exchange.

The true essence of bitcoin and its usage has been erase out by hodl or trading mindset since this is what always portrayed to the people and can't blame people to think about that since majority of us here want to earn and take advantage on current situation where bitcoin price is volatile.

[348Judah]

Take for example this post made by Hhampuz who is one of the most reputable campaign managers on Bitcoin talk.
In that post Hhampuz made mention of spending roughly $200 /week on fees for each campaign. Now assuming Hhampuz managess 5 campaigns for 15 weeks, taking the math he would have spent an enormous amount of about $15,000 (~0.34BTC) on fees only. Considering these enormous fees P2P transactions would become  uneconomical.

You're right, many people are making use of the bitcoin network because of how cheap it appears, but it's becoming more difficult for people to maintain this standard anymore because of the high transaction fee, you could see this confirmation from some other campaign managers who have made a decision of making payments using other coins, just to be able to bypass the transaction high fee on bitcoin network.

Same also have so many of the bitcoin users are facing now because they couldn't afford the high fee, they had prefer using other network in making transactions by exchanging bitcoin in other to serve their purpose, we may be in expectations of something new to ease the whole thing coming this new year if the developers made such decision for that.

[Alpha Marine]

High transaction fees are one thing that can hinder Bitcoin adoption. Bitcoin adoption to me is not about how many countries accept Bitcoin as legal tender, it's not about how many people use Bitcoin. All these things are important I know but it doesn't matter how many people use Bitcoin if they can't use it whenever they want.

Bitcoin adoption to me is being able to use Bitcoin at any time. What's the point of all that privacy and animosity if you have to wait hours for a transaction to be completed?

I don't think Bitcoin is losing its P2P efficiency but high transaction fees is discouraging its adoption.

[hatshepsut93]

I see a lot of newbies are concerned about the fees, but nothing new has happened over the recent years, it has all been discussed back in 2016-2017. Bitcoin (and all other cryptocurrencies) has fundamental limitations, blockspace can't be made too large or the network will stop being peer-to-peer. And while the current fees can be blamed on NFTs, the fees are bound to only go up and up. So forget about Bitcoin being a p2p currency fir buying small things - it's mostly a store of value that is supposed to be resilient to inflation.

[Blitzboy]

It is very interesting to see how Bitcoin has changed from a p2p system with low fees to one with high transaction fees. At first, Bitcoin's appeal came from the fact that it was cheap and easy to use; it was a digital way to make everyday trades. But as use grew, the blockchain's design caused it to become crowded and charge high fees. SegWit and Layer 2 solutions, while innovative, havent fully resolved these challenges.

Bitcoin's place in the digital economy has changed because of this congestion and the high fees that come with it. For me, and many others, Bitcoin has become more of an investment asset than a medium for everyday transactions. As Hhampuz's experience shows, the high fees make it impossible to do small deals. That other cryptocurrencies, like Tron and Doge, are better for everyday trades is becoming more and more clear. In all its digital glory, Bitcoin is changing into a digital gold, a safe haven rather than a way to buy things.

[mindrust]

Yes and No....

The congested Mempool is part of a coordinated attack and not the normal day2day transactions that we are supposed to have on a daily basis. We also know if more people used the Lightning Network for daily transactions, then congestion on the Blockchain would not have been an issue.

We should allow the developers to find counter measures for these kinds of attacks and we should also allow for Bitcoin enthusiasts to solve the mystery of who is behind these attacks.  

Technically, this is not an attack. Some people who love NFT's are willing to pay more than the other people who want to create cheap transactions that's all. The attacker is the dev who implemented this feature and thought it was a good idea. Whoever he is, should be kicked out immediately and never again come close anywhere coding bitcoin.

If this thing keeps going, soon bitcoin will indeed lose its cash functionality completely. It will be a cat pic market.

[new19980]

isnt the fees increase because of those BRC20 SHIT Tokens ? i heard one of bitcoincore devs
saying that they have plans to block them from the network in next updates also 300 MB on the mempool seem
too small i hope they can increase it to 2 GB or something

[new19980]

Lightning is TRASH for small transactions since you need to use BTC to open a channel
the only way is to block those BRC20 shit tokens and if possible increase pool capacity from 300 MB to +2GB