People who run Bitcoin Nodes, what's your opinion about the Ordinals/NFT?

[ranochigo]

the difference is YOU are foolishly adding in the word FULL to nodes that are not offering full network service
the emphasis is the word FULL  means FULL
YOU imply something less then full service is still full

Conventionally, the community has always agreed that full nodes are the opposite of SPV clients and that full nodes are just nodes that validate each block and transactions. Sounds like you’ve blown the issue out of proportion. Just look at the historical usage of the term.

there are full nodes..... (do all network services)
       then below that, there are pruned nodes (DONT do all network services)
and then if they dont do validation then they are software/wallets (just communicate to network or server then to network) for users benefit, not network benefit

the emphasis is the word FULL  means FULL
YOU imply something less then full service is still full

What do you consider full nodes which stores the entire blockchain but has bandwidth limits which disallows the peers to request more blocks? The only key difference in function is the unavailability of certain blocks in the past. In fact, they are still doing validation the same way as other full nodes.

pruning is a "less than" full network service
other peers cannot bloom filter/request certain blocks/transactions in history from you
other peers cannot initial block download startup the history from you

Not all peers would be required to serve all of the blocks in the blockchain and it is possible for Bitcoin Core to requests for blocks selectively. If you’ve taken issue with the usage of the term, you should look at the historical usage of it on the forum.

[franky1]

the difference is YOU are foolishly adding in the word FULL to nodes that are not offering full network service
the emphasis is the word FULL  means FULL
YOU imply something less then full service is still full

Conventionally, the community has always agreed that full nodes are the opposite of SPV clients and that full nodes are just nodes that validate each block and transactions. Sounds like you’ve blown the issue out of proportion. Just look at the historical usage of the term.

conventionally prunning wasnt even a thing.. all full nodes archived data(as well as other network services)
you do know that the point of blockchains is decentralised storage of validated blockchain data.. to avoid centralising the blockdata

i think you are just trying to find excuses to pretend you are helping the network without helping the network but still want to be seen as helping the network, even though you only care about the features that help yourself

nothing wrong with wanting feature that help yourself, but lets not pretend you are offering full decentralised network services to help the decentralised network

pruning is a "less than" full network service
other peers cannot bloom filter/request certain blocks/transactions in history from you
other peers cannot initial block download startup the history from you

Not all peers would be required to serve all of the blocks in the blockchain and it is possible for Bitcoin Core to requests for blocks selectively. If you’ve taken issue with the usage of the term, you should look at the historical usage of it on the forum.

i am considering the historic usage of the term..
it is you that is only considering the more recent re-imagined usage of the term
remember prunning was not a thing 2009-2017
so im considering term usage from the beginning upto 2017, and also the grammar, logic and common sense usage post 2017
you are just considering the social misunderstanding of grammatically, logically, and common sensically void/irrelevant term usage post 2017
..
i think you have totally missed the whole entire purpose of blockchains

.. im not even trying to have a go at you for prunning. im just having a lil poke at you to understand how full nodes are in every sense of the word full. just so you can get your mind around the true sense of the term. rather than recent mis-interpretations made by idiots thinking that prunning doesnt affect the network
..
so back to topic
the threat of hard drive prices is not a threat to network centralisation... prunning is, especially if people are fooled into thinking they are helping keep the network decentralised while not actually even storing the blockchain

[ranochigo]

conventionally prunning wasnt even a thing.. all full nodes archived data
you do know that the point of blockchains is decentralised storage of blockchain data.. to avoid centralising the blockdata

i think you are just trying to find excuses to pretend you are helping the network without helping the network but still want to be seen as helping the network, even thought you only care about the features that help yourself

nothing wrong with wanting feature that help yourself, but lets not pretend you are offering full decentralised network services to help the decentralised network

No one is virtue signalling here; I'm not running a pruned node to feel good or brag about it. Heck, I'm not even being compensated for running a full archival node. Getting shamed or attacked for running a pruned node instead of a full node is disgusting and unwarranted. If I can only run a pruned node, then you bet I wouldn't buy another disk just to run a Bitcoin node.

If I'm not getting compensated for running a node, I don't think anyone should lecture me on what I should be doing to my node. After all, it's not like my pruned node is a negative to the network and is still in fact providing blocks to my peers, validating transactions before relaying it, etc.

[franky1]

compensated?
whats next you want to be paid to wear pants to hold your bank notes in your pocket.. give over..
if you wanna wear a dress but shout you wear pants with a secure pocket. expect to be called out for it.
and no dont expect people to not want to discuss your dress malfunction unless they pay you.. thats not how the world works

if you call a skirt "mans pants" expect people to correct you

as for your preference or hope to get paid.. i laugh
if you think that spending $50 on a hard drive for current 15 years + another 5 plus years of usage...
then why think its a expense in comparison to just the fee's of bitcoin transaction

do the math 20 years usage 7300 days = is not even 1 cent a day yet fee's are more then a few dollars per tx
the fee's are more of an expense you should cry about, not the concern of hard drive cost

hard drive expense is not going to be the cause of centralisation
the social dumbness of people being told to prune is more of a concern

point is..
if you dont want to help keep the blockchain decentralised. thats your personal choice.. but stop pretending that you are helping the network when you made the choice not to. just be happy being an underclass of node. be happy with your choice, and honest about it

[ranochigo]

compensated?
whats next you want to be paid to wear pants to hold your bank notes in your pocket.. give over..
if you wanna wear a dress but shout you wear pants with a secure pocket. expect to be called out for it.
and no dont expect people to not want to discuss your dress malfunction unless they pay you.. thats not how the world works

if you call a skirt "mans pants" expect people to correct you

That's an irrelevant analogy. I am purely wearing pants for my own modesty. I'd mind my own business about how others dress, perhaps not for you.

I'm perfectly fine using an SPV node, or with the alternatives which doesn't benefit the network. Yet, I am choosing to run a pruned full node while someone on the internet is chiding me for being restricted by resources and telling me that I should run a full archival node when I don't have the capabilities to. Don't fool yourself; running a full archival node is a good to have but I am not forcing it on others to do so.

Basic concept of positive externalities, which is what this phenomenon is.   

as for your preference or hope to get paid.. i laugh
if you think that spending $50 on a hard drive for current 15 years + another 5 plus years of usage...
then why think its a expense in comparison to just the fee's of bitcoin transaction

do the math 20 years usage 7300 days = is not even 1 cent a day yet fee's are more then a few dollars per tx
the fee's are more of an expense you should cry about, not the concern of hard drive cost

hard drive expense is not going to be the cause of centralisation
the social dumbness of people being told to prune is more of a concern

Ridiculous. I am not going to force others to run a full archival node because I believe they should. I would encourage people to run a full archival node, but not belittle others for not being capable or not being willing to run one. Of course, if everyone prunes, then it would be terrible. But so long as people are willing to do whatever they can within their capabilities, I don't see how it would be a problem.

Sure, hard disk space is cheap. But I'm not going around to tell others that they suck because they are not running a full archival node. I was able to purchase and used a dedicated drive in my desktop for an unpruned node, but that wouldn't be the same for all.

point is..
if you dont want to help keep the blockchain decentralised. thats your personal choice.. but stop pretending that you are helping the network when you made the choice not to. just be happy being an underclass of node. be happy with your choice, and honest about it

Sure, I don't see how anyone has toot their own horn for running a pruned node here. Sure, it is good to run an archival node but don't expect people to care nor thank you for it.

[franky1]

its not about forcing or belittling..

its about you not understanding the terminology. you thought being pruned meant full, i corrected you.
end of story.

you are free to prune. just be happy with your coice and learn what it means.. just dont pretend you are full node when your not. accept your choice with maturity and grace of understanding the choice you made
you decided to a pruned node. if your happy about it be happy about your choice. just dont hide away and pretend to be a full node

also stop now trying to reclassify a full node as "archive node"
your reclassification nonsense is like you trying to say real men are now "CIS men" and trans-men are "men"
your getting things messed up and twisted around.

[Cricktor]

Your HD/SSD space is being used by Ordinals/NFT users right now. Do you like this? Do you consent?

Curently I run four unpruned nodes and every node has a particular purpose for me. It's not that I believe more nodes do more benefit for the Bitcoin network; I just have my own uses for my nodes.

As of now this is current storage usage:

Code:

575G	./blocks
9,9G	./chainstate
56G	./indexes

Since the exploit of the vulnerability and I see it as a vulnerability to add arbitrary discounted(!) witness data the growth rate of the blockchain has slightly but notably increased, the change is visible. My 1TB storage devices will still last for quite some time, no need to make a fuss of it.

At first I was annoyed thinking about all the, in my personal opinion, shit stored by inscriptions into the immutable blockchain. But after some thinking I have to say that it's not me to decide what people write into blocks. I'm annoyed of the pure existance of the vulnerability that allows an easy and discounted storage of larger amounts of data bloating blocks up to almost 4MB (occasionally).

I know with OP_RETURN it was and is possible to write (undiscounted!) arbitrary data in small chunks into the blockchain. You need to use this? Go ahead, it's up to you. You want to abuse OP_RETURN? I say, shame on you, you violate the spirit of Bitcoin.

Should the vulnerability be closed? Yes, absolutely, every exploitable vulnerability should be fixed. Period! Don't mistake it as an act of censorship.

[ABCbits]

It doesn't

With a hard drive of 2-4 Tb, you'll have no issue storing blockchain data for a long, long time. And it doesn't cost you up to $50

Remember on top of that, I'm paying a higher fee on the mempool because of that Ordinals/NFT.

50$ is a lot in poor countries and we need people running nodes in all parts of the world, not only North America and Europe.

If running Bitcoin full node burden their financial, then IMO they should doing that and focus to improve their financial condition.

With a 1Tb hard drive, anyone would be able to run a full node now. Bitcoin has been around 15 years and the total data space it's taking is just above 500gb

I used the 2-4TB to show that what you need to run a full node for many decades to come.

Yeah, but the spammers are increasing more and more.

When this will stop?

But with block size limit, there's upper limit of blockchain size growth.

the difference is YOU are foolishly adding in the word FULL to nodes that are not offering full network service
the emphasis is the word FULL  means FULL
YOU imply something less then full service is still full

Conventionally, the community has always agreed that full nodes are the opposite of SPV clients and that full nodes are just nodes that validate each block and transactions. Sounds like you’ve blown the issue out of proportion. Just look at the historical usage of the term.

But term "full node" already exist before any full node software offer prune mode. So personally i would keep using term "full node" (store all blocks) and "pruned node" (store recent blocks). And i recall term "archival node" comes from ETH community.

[Rayser]

Your HD/SSD space is being used by Ordinals/NFT users right now. Do you like this? Do you consent?

Like Ordinals or don't like Ordinals, they are part of Bitcoin on chain transactions and mempools.

The thing is, what we call "Ordinals" is more like a bug in the code that allowed such spam.

Remember when Satoshi fight against spammers?

[kuriboh]

Your HD/SSD space is being used by Ordinals/NFT users right now. Do you like this? Do you consent?

Great, you made a good point. This has been discussed before, but I wouldn't say I like it if someone else uses my HD or SSD. I have to disagree with that. Because I will use other things, it cannot be taken. I won't let that happen.

The data blockchain records on the original network are unmatched. It works automatically when it is used. The matter is different. I need an excellent way to do ordinals, which would be nice. But the problem is that we have no choice. It differs from the current quality, but some news is being said about it. We hope to come out strong and get something better.

[DeathAngel]

I don’t like it, it is an attack on Bitcoin. It’s done purely to bloat the mempool, make it more expensive to use Bitcoin & simply annoy people. There are so many scammers & grifters, money launderers etc involved in ordinals & nfts. They should go & use BCH or BSV that use bigger blocks. They won’t do that though because that doesn’t give them the attention they need. I believe that Luke Dash Jr said a fix will soon be here in Bitcoin Core update that will make it impossible for them to continue, I look forward to it.

[BitPuzzle]

What is run a bitcoin node and how can i do it? Does it have a reward for that?

[Solosanz]

What is run a bitcoin node and how can i do it? Does it have a reward for that?

Read:
1. https://learnmeabitcoin.com/beginners/nodes
2. https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#what-is-a-full-node
3. [Guide] How to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!

There's no reward to run full node or pruned node, you're just participating into the network and helping the Bitcoin's decentralization.

[pooya87]

To those who quote the price of a HDD/SSD, you have to realize that people don't buy a storage disk to dedicate to their full node and it should not be like this. They should be able to dedicate a part of the spare space they already have (people keep other stuff too!) and not be forced to purchase new hardware. That would mean less people running a node.

Additionally there is another problem with spam attack such as Ordinals which is bloating the chainstate or the UTXO database with garbage outputs which they'll have to load each time they want to validate a new transaction they receive in their mempool or a new block.

And finally this is all irrelevant because at the end of the day Ordinals Attack is abusing a flaw in the protocol to perform this spam attack. Whether it is going to affect blockchain size (ie. block size has a cap) or not shouldn't change the fact that this exploit has to be fixed.

[BitPuzzle]

What is run a bitcoin node and how can i do it? Does it have a reward for that?

Read:
1. https://learnmeabitcoin.com/beginners/nodes
2. https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#what-is-a-full-node
3. [Guide] How to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!

There's no reward to run full node or pruned node, you're just participating into the network and helping the Bitcoin's decentralization.

Thats cool and thanks for sharing it. But, let me ask you: what happens if no one do runs the nodes?

[Rayser]

What is run a bitcoin node and how can i do it? Does it have a reward for that?

Read:
1. https://learnmeabitcoin.com/beginners/nodes
2. https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#what-is-a-full-node
3. [Guide] How to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!

There's no reward to run full node or pruned node, you're just participating into the network and helping the Bitcoin's decentralization.

Thats cool and thanks for sharing it. But, let me ask you: what happens if no one do runs the nodes?

Bitcoin dies if no one runs a node.