Bitcoin was created to reform money and provide financial freedom

[YUriy1991]

Great points.  Banks have adopted it for the express purpose of controlling it within the current financial paradigm. If Bitcoin is not used as a currency then its value is simply to provide a tool to banks and centralized financial institutions to siphon off some of each persons value.

Of course OP, if the adoption of Bitcoin is forced by the banking sector, of course the value of this enthusiasm will fade and conflict with basic principles because like it or not, all customers are required to have strict KYC identification and of course the bank will also provide special services for those who are already well established. finances in this area of course. As we currently see, those who have a lot of large assets always get a special route when withdrawing fiat at a bank.

Even if they try to integrate Bitcoin into their operations, I think it will take time to balance and address the unique aspects of cryptocurrencies such as scalability, transaction speed, and security in their operations.

[1715310387]

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[Ale88]

Though I might be wrong on this but I think the main or the core reason of creating bitcoin was to use it to trade p2p which is to buy goods and services online but that part or function of bitcoin creation is not working perfectly yet and I don't know if it will work in the nearest future.

You are talking about mass adoption, I'm not sure if Satoshi (or someone else) ever made like a diagram of all bitcoin's theoretical step but I'm pretty sure that mass adoption would be the last step, or one of the very last. Let's not forget that it's been created only 15 years ago and the achievements that it reached are pretty insane. I'm pretty happy with all the goals we've already reached, let's see what happens in the next 5 years now.

[btc78]

I think the purpose of bitcoin was mainly so we do not need to go through third parties just to make transactions. With the rise of centralized exchanges these days, I think it is just natural and part of innovation and development. Even though not exactly the actual purpose of bitcoin, we can not stop or prevent people from using centralized exchanges for whatever reason.
Rather I would like to see bitcoin to be used for everyday transactions. Now proves that to be quite impossible. With the high transaction fees and most people wanting to hold. I do understand it because I really do see bitcoin as a valuable investment but it makes me wonder until when it would be?

[legiteum]

But, has it really failed if these people choose to forfeit custody? I mean, if you personally don't care about self-custody, does that alter Bitcoin's goal or my interaction with Bitcoin? Bitcoin is all about freedom of choice in the end. It allows you to mistreat it.

Well, there's no practical reason to invest in Bitcoin if you aren't interested in decentralization.

But the investors who don't care about decentralization are probably responsible for 95% of Bitcoin's market cap.

In other words, if there were no central brokerages and all investors of Bitcoin were forced to mess around with private keys, keeping those keys on their physical person, then only a tiny few would invest, and almost nobody would want to invest anything significant lest their life savings end up in a landfill. Unless we're talking about the cash in your wallet, most people want to keep their holdings in their name.

So yes, the fact that most people don't use Bitcoin in the way Bitcoin was intended surely affects everybody's use of Bitcoin since those people make it a wildly appreciating asset and not just a curiosity for a few tech folks like us.

And seriously, in real life, do people here actually use Bitcoin for their daily transactions? Do they put their entire life savings into Bitcoin? (God I hope not lest it lose 75% of its value again like it did only 18 months ago).

[Volimack]

These coins can be used to make financial transactions online. Since cryptocurrency transactions are conducted through the blockchain network there is no proof of origin. That's why bitcoin reaches where money or dollars don't. Common people as well as governments have started taking help of these coins to conduct their secret financial transactions. The more it is used the more the market value of bitcoin increases.

[AVE5]

The potentials and the aims of bitcoin is at it best utilizations whereas every bitcoin holders has an aim for the holding, either for exchange for payments in place of the fiats or holding for investments with the aim of making profits.
But Op, bitcoin is not to equalize the fiat currencies rather bitcoin is a unified crypto currency which can be exchanged with any fiats currency.

[davis196]

Fast forward 16 years and almost all Bitcoin transactions are run through third parties.  To buy Bitcoin most people use exchanges which you must KYC on. To store Bitcoin most people use wallets that require the use of 3rd party nodes for transactions. This includes Hardware wallets.  Most people use Bitcoin like an investment not an electronic cash system. Banks are buying up large quantities of Bitcoin to hold for customers buying their ETFs. Arguably developers are adding things like ordinals to the code which have slowed transactions and increased fees above what would be reasonable for small financial transactions.

AFAIK, most BTC transactions are run on the Bitcoin Core blockchain, so you are wrong about this.
You are right about most of the things you've mentioned, but you didn't clarify what exactly is your dream. Bitcoin can give financial freedom, but only if you use it the right way(without centralized exchanges and third parties). Most of the people don't want freedom, they want profits. Obviously Bitcoin is too scarce to become an actual currency. The high price volatility is what stops mass adoption.
Bitcoin ETFs and the flood of institutional investors in the Bitcoin/crypto world can be a double edged sword, but so far, most of the Bitcoiners are enjoying the bull run, so they aren't against the money coming from the big banks and investment funds.

[lizarder]

The Bitcoin solution was to create a currency that had a limited supply and transactions that were peer-to-peer so that no financial institutions would have financial power over the individual.

There is no control and no government can interfere so Bitcoin stands alone without being controlled. Peer-to-peer transactions are its advantage and make bitcoin a source of freedom. This is a solution even though most countries only allow bitcoin as an investment asset.

I see the potential for Bitcoin and am working on projects to help with the original mission - financial freedom for individuals world wide.

This has been achieved because almost everyone involved in bitcoin investment gets the benefits of financial freedom compared to the previous fiat money system. Each individual can represent himself in bitcoin whether it is an investment or uses it as a transaction tool that accepts bitcoin. The legitimacy of bitcoin can be seen from the number of adoptions which continues to expand, making bitcoin increasingly popular with many people.

[bayu7adi]

It is true, inflation can be prevented by limiting the supply of currency, but can this limited currency really be a solution and can it take over FIAT's current role? Of course I doubt that.

Bitcoin now and in the future may be more inclined to be used as a digital asset where many people will speculate on the price of Bitcoin and think about the profits when converted into FIAT. This limited supply is what triggers the psychology of many people to take advantage of Bitcoin as a profit generator, not as a transaction tool.

As an icon of financial freedom, perhaps this can be seen in Bitcoin. I also feel the same way when sending Bitcoin p2p without any interference from other parties. IMO Bitcoin has great potential as a freer currency of value.

[CageMabok]

These coins can be used to make financial transactions online. Since cryptocurrency transactions are conducted through the blockchain network there is no proof of origin. That's why bitcoin reaches where money or dollars don't. Common people as well as governments have started taking help of these coins to conduct their secret financial transactions. The more it is used the more the market value of bitcoin increases.

In the end, everyone will be aware of this after researching the benefits that can arise from using Bitcoin and its transactions, because Bitcoin has become better than any currency in the world so that everyone cannot deny that the use of Bitcoin will continue to increase accompanied by at the price too. Now large companies have also seen the benefits of using Bitcoin, so now there are companies that are willing to accept Bitcoin if they want to buy a product that they sell on the market.

[moneystery]

but that is the development of bitcoin, you cannot change that because that is the negative side of the decentralized system, where no one person controls the bitcoin ecosystem.

moreover, from the beginning, satoshi nakamoto developed bitcoin to provide people globally with a transaction system that is non-interventionist, decentralized, accessible to everyone, fast and secure. it does not aim to replace the role of banking or currency, but rather as an alternative that can be used by everyone.

the idea itself is mature and developing now, but if there is a negative side to it, we must be able to understand it and improve it as much as possible, because nothing is perfect in this world.

[Plaguedeath]

In the end, everyone will be aware of this after researching the benefits that can arise from using Bitcoin and its transactions, because Bitcoin has become better than any currency in the world so that everyone cannot deny that the use of Bitcoin will continue to increase accompanied by at the price too. Now large companies have also seen the benefits of using Bitcoin, so now there are companies that are willing to accept Bitcoin if they want to buy a product that they sell on the market.

I disagree, Bitcoin is only better in terms of borderless payments and decentralized if you use Bitcoin as currency, you will say Bitcoin isn't a good currency because you're always spend more than what you should (the product/service price + fee).

But, Bitcoin is better than any asset in the world because there are no other assets that can perform better in terms price and security than Bitcoin.

[BlackHatCoiner]

In other words, if there were no central brokerages and all investors of Bitcoin were forced to mess around with private keys

If by "investors" you mean everyday laymen who wanna make a quick buck and saw a "Binance" ad in YouTube, then yes. But, if you don't, then I think you underestimate serious investors. I believe every serious investor in Bitcoin is capable of protecting a seed phrase. Not only that, but I believe they are aware of what happens to their money if the central broker goes out of business.

Speaking out of experience with my interaction with serious investors, they don't invest into stuff they don't understand. Buying bitcoin and keeping it in an centralized exchange means you don't understand it.

Unless we're talking about the cash in your wallet, most people want to keep their holdings in their name.

Sure, but you can't keep bitcoin in your name, whether you like it or not.

[legiteum]

If by "investors" you mean everyday laymen who wanna make a quick buck and saw a "Binance" ad in YouTube, then yes. But, if you don't, then I think you underestimate serious investors. I believe every serious investor in Bitcoin is capable of protecting a seed phrase. Not only that, but I believe they are aware of what happens to their money if the central broker goes out of business.

Speaking out of experience with my interaction with serious investors, they don't invest into stuff they don't understand. Buying bitcoin and keeping it in an centralized exchange means you don't understand it.

But serious investors invest serious money which most people wouldn't trust to physically hold in their hands where it can be lost or stolen. Most people invest their life savings in an account in their name so it can't be taken from them no matter what.

(And let's get real here: the "big boys" of investing of Bitcoin right now are playing with a placeholder they see having market momentum leading to increases in the selling price--they don't care about the technical details. It might as well be Teldar Paper to them).

Any institution can lose your money, and consumers know that, but even with the occasional problems, they still trust institutions who make it their job to safeguard people's money instead of their own physical guard.

Not too many people bury their life savings in the backyard or under the mattress, and not many hold their own private key they could lose when there's serious money on the line.

(My article, The Anon Paradox, points out the seeming paradox between wanting anonymity for "small" amounts of money like the cash in your wallet versus "big" amounts e.g. your savings, car or house wherein anonymity is actually a bad thing for most people).

[we-btc]

AFAIK, most BTC transactions are run on the Bitcoin Core blockchain, so you are wrong about this.
You are right about most of the things you've mentioned, but you didn't clarify what exactly is your dream. Bitcoin can give financial freedom, but only if you use it the right way(without centralized exchanges and third parties). Most of the people don't want freedom, they want profits. Obviously Bitcoin is too scarce to become an actual currency. The high price volatility is what stops mass adoption.
Bitcoin ETFs and the flood of institutional investors in the Bitcoin/crypto world can be a double edged sword, but so far, most of the Bitcoiners are enjoying the bull run, so they aren't against the money coming from the big banks and investment funds.

One thing that I have found most people don't understand about Bitcoin is that in order for a transaction to be "purely peer-to-peer" each party to the transaction must run their own node. Bitcoin Core was designed to run on basic computers so everyone could run a node.  I want to say this again - for a Bitcoin transaction to be peer-to-peer you must use your own node.  When using  your own node the transactions goes directly into the memory pool and no third party is required. If you use a wallet where you are sharing a node with other users (Hardware Wallets included) then you have created a central point of failure that can be audited and controlled.  Bitcoin was designed to be used with private nodes run by individuals not organizations.  This is what will keep Bitcoin secure and decentralized.

Exchanges and banks add a custody issue on top of the centralization.  ETFs take this centralization to a whole new level in that the buyer of Bitcoin doesn't even own the coin.  The Bank does.  The supplier of the capital merely owns a share in the fund and the Bank owns the Bitcoin.  You can't get any farther from Bitcoin's intended purpose than the ETFs.

I would like to see everyone who invests in Bitcoin running their own node.  The issue is we are not developing the hardware and software for this to be an option. This is what I want to work on because I believe it serves everyone with financial freedom and sovereignty.

The price of Bitcoin going up because banks are taking ownership only serves to confuse people because it feels good to have more money.  But don't forget the cost of that money is - Bank control.

[BlackHatCoiner]

But serious investors invest serious money which most people wouldn't trust to physically hold in their hands where it can be lost or stolen. Most people invest their life savings in an account in their name so it can't be taken from them no matter what.

Right. So, serious investors are given two choices. Either ignore this financial and technological innovation, or invest with that risk. I believe that a serious investor can spend a few of their valuable hours on setting up a wallet and maybe even for having some extra security, educate themselves about multi-sig.

Any institution can lose your money, and consumers know that

And they're fine with it, because they are secured. If a bank goes bankrupt, the state will protect its customers. But if a centralized exchange goes bankrupt, customers get no cent back. I expect from serious investors to have this knowledge and not blindly trust a business with their money.

(My article, The Anon Paradox, points out the seeming paradox between wanting anonymity for "small" amounts of money like the cash in your wallet versus "big" amounts e.g. your savings, car or house wherein anonymity is actually a bad thing for most people).

It's good that we have some new controversy over the space. I'll read your article once I find the time. And, if I haven't told you already, welcome to Bitcointalk! 

[legiteum]

But serious investors invest serious money which most people wouldn't trust to physically hold in their hands where it can be lost or stolen. Most people invest their life savings in an account in their name so it can't be taken from them no matter what.

Right. So, serious investors are given two choices. Either ignore this financial and technological innovation, or invest with that risk. I believe that a serious investor can spend a few of their valuable hours on setting up a wallet and maybe even for having some extra security, educate themselves about multi-sig.

They are not investing in "technological innovation", they are investing in an instrument they think will go up in value in the short run. I can almost guarantee that most big investors don't give a crap why it's going up--they just invest because they think it's going up.

And they're fine with it, because they are secured. If a bank goes bankrupt, the state will protect its customers. But if a centralized exchange goes bankrupt, customers get no cent back. I expect from serious investors to have this knowledge and not blindly trust a business with their money.

Yes, they know that, and look for institutions that have good infrastructure and processes, like any major bank has. And there are insurance companies involved securing the investment in some cases based on processes like 27001 compliance. I guarantee you that a line investor at Goldman Sachs doesn't have his firm's billion dollar investment in Bitcoin locked in the top drawer of his desk.

(My article, The Anon Paradox, points out the seeming paradox between wanting anonymity for "small" amounts of money like the cash in your wallet versus "big" amounts e.g. your savings, car or house wherein anonymity is actually a bad thing for most people).

It's good that we have some new controversy over the space. I'll read your article once I find the time. And, if I haven't told you already, welcome to Bitcointalk! 

Thank you very, very much. This is a most excellent forum to discuss ideas, which is actually unusual for the internet these days.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Yes, they know that, and look for institutions that have good infrastructure and processes, like any major bank has.

None of which can be accurately compared with centralized exchanges, which run under no promise for fund safety (beyond trusting their word, lol). Not only they are caught having insecure setups, but they even engage in illegal activities like practicing fractional reserve banking with your money.

I guarantee you that a line investor at Goldman Sachs doesn't have his firm's billion dollar investment in Bitcoin locked in the top drawer of his desk.

So where does he have it? Inside the corp, in a locker? Maybe in a bank's vault? Maybe in multiple places using multi-sig? As I've already said, you can't keep your bitcoin to your name, it is simply not recognizable, neither by the state, and neither by the Bitcoin network. You either have the choice to be aware of your funds safety yourself (by protecting a seed phrase, and practicing security), or by trusting a provably incompetent stranger with no compensation in case their business goes bankrupt or gets hacked. I believe that a serious investor will go with the former.

They can choose to not participate in this innovation that is rapidly increasing in value. But, I'm sure that's not an option for a serious investor.

I read your article. What's the problem with buying bitcoin and tiding it to your name? You explain why large amounts of money cannot / must not be kept anonymously, but you do not explain why they cannot be kept under your name, but with self-custody. When you buy bitcoin from a KYC exchange, you're giving up enough information to not be considered anonymous. However, nobody forces you to forfeit your custody. You can withdraw them to your wallet normally.

[Z-tight]

Fast forward 16 years and almost all Bitcoin transactions are run through third parties.  To buy Bitcoin most people use exchanges which you must KYC on. To store Bitcoin most people use wallets that require the use of 3rd party nodes for transactions. This includes Hardware wallets.

BTC was truly created as p2p electronic cash, but BTC is a decentralized currency and there is freedom in the network, i don't think it was ever going to be possible for BTC to have exactly followed Satoshi's visions from creation till now. BTC is now investment for people, a hedge, money, 'digital gold', etc, i think this is the beauty of BTC, permissionless, nobody needs your permission or mine on how to use their BTC.

However, there are p2p exchanges, you don't have to use centralized exchanges, you can run your own node, you don't have to connect to third party nodes, there are open source and self custodial wallets, you don't have to use custodial wallets, there are also privacy solutions, it is not as if people cannot protect their privacy when they use BTC, or use it in the way it was designed, it depends on the individual and not the network.

[BD Technical]

When Bitcoin was created, it didn't know that the value of Bitcoin would be this way in 2024, and Bitcoin itself didn't know that Bitcoin would rise so much because it was priced when Bitcoin launched in 2008.  At a very low speed, which is not to say that a bitcoin could not even buy a chocolate.  And now you can make your dream come true with Admit Coin.  In all cases, the value of Bitcoin is slowly increasing in the case that everyone did not know that Bitcoin would actually increase in this way.  As Bitcoin is spreading around the world in such a way that it seems like the future of people with Bitcoin.  Electric wallets will become the demand for yogurt because they will not keep their transactions as pockets, they will buy and transact all their products by exchanging their bitcoins on mobile or electronic wallets.  One thing you will notice is that no one knew this bitcoin even five years ago no one knew this bitcoin but now you can almost hear the price of this bitcoin by word of mouth.