Can gambling sites provide proof of auditing that was done on their RTP?

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

It depends on situation. As i know in some casino is used free code - it is possible to load on github.

No, it doesn't depend on the situation. You're pulling info out of your ass and are just guessing, and then half of the forum will quote you and believe you.

The same reason you can't find a popular slot game code on github is the reason you can't find a Zelda game on github = trademarks, copyrights and, of course, money.

Pragmatic, Netent and others don't want to share their templates because then copycats will appear. It already happened with Book Of games once.

And no, it's not because of RTP mechanics, all of the certified games are transparent in that and to everyone actually reading it can understand that they are here for entertainment only, not for making money.

And how do you imagine auditors, people in their mid 20ies knowing how to read code?

No man. You're dealing with corporate processes, trademarks, certificates etc. Evolution Gaming Group (who owns most of the popular slots) is a *publicly trading company* = you really think their business model is scamming people? It's as every other corporate business out there, it has a formula that entertains the user and makes money, that formula is published openly. The code though? No.

Source: I work in the industry

If a user on stake.com lose 1000 bets on the sweet bonanza slot, can a user from bc.game win big on that same slot?

That can happen (one operator having less luck with a game than the other operator), but it's not correlated. Separate casinos, separate accounts, separate pool.

[LUCKMCFLY]

In the case that we are in a casino X and it happens what has always happened, we lose a lot, and in other casinos we win with the same game, as they have said above, what is then the explanation, if apart from all the games like slots almost all are those of the same provider? It seems to me that the slots are a chance to win or lose and mere luck, but what about these statistics, I have read that if they are audited, then that means that the audits are reliable? Is there no special software that performs the audit of the audit? i.e. a kind of external auditor who can say if the first audit of the site is reliable or manipulated? It's interesting, because it all starts with the famous RTP, which we all look for when it's high, but it must have its thing behind it.

*edit.

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

In the case that we are in a casino X and it happens what has always happened, we lose a lot, and in other casinos we win with the same game, as they have said above, what is then the explanation, if apart from all the games like slots almost all are those of the same provider? It seems to me that the slots are a chance to win or lose and mere luck, but what about these statistics, I have read that if they are audited, then that means that the audits are reliable? Is there no special software that performs the audit of the audit? i.e. a kind of external auditor who can say if the first audit of the site is reliable or manipulated? It's interesting, because it all starts with the famous RTP, which we all look for when it's high, but it must have its thing behind it.

There is no luck involved, slots are a game of chance, and they are predetermined to entertain you for a certain amount of time, and take money out of you for that time.

When you pay $50 for a new PS4 Tomb Raider game, you know you'll get entertained for XY hours + have the story experience
When you pay $50 for a new Tomb Raider Slot game, you know you'll get entertained for XY hours + have the option of winning big

However, both games are here to entertain you, and charge for that.

Just try to think, how stupid of a business model would it be if the sole goal of the business would be to give each and every client of yours $1000 and a kiss on the forehead

Additionally, besides the reply that I already gave above your post, no one needs to audit the site for its slot games, since the slot games are like an external plugin. We, the operator, have zero control over the mechanics of it.

Imagine like telling Mercedes that they are manipulating the Michelin tires that come with their cars. Sure, they have some form of flexibility with the manufacturer due to the large amount of orders, but Michelin is the one doing all the certificates, is being audited for all the security and other stuff.

So same here, we are running the car, and the car is made out of parts provided by gambling providers. Those same providers are then strictly vetted, and most of them are publicly trading as well.

Again, the formula is transparent, it's just that the majority of people don't want to look at it or accept that you're paying for entertainment.

[shield132]

In my country, every local land-based and online casino gets officially audited by the government. In other words, the government ensures that Random Number Generators are really random and not rigged. Their audits aren't available publicly as far as I know but I am sure that every casino with local license is regularly inspected and monitored. I don't know it about online crypto casinos but I guess that provably fair system gives you confidence that the game is not rigged. Slots providers, that are presented on many crypto casinos, also get audited and you can check their audit results on their website or on 3rd party websites. I can tell you from my experience that live casinos, in this case Evolution, is audited and they have cameras absolutely everywhere, all live games provided by them are 100% trustworthy.

[SirJohnVonSlotty]

I can tell you from my experience that live casinos, in this case Evolution, is audited and they have cameras absolutely everywhere, all live games provided by them are 100% trustworthy.

They are a game provider, not a live casino. But yes, I agree, they are 100% trustworthy with trained staff that knows what they are doing.

[Dewi Aries]

In the case that we are in a casino X and it happens what has always happened, we lose a lot, and in other casinos we win with the same game, as they have said above, what is then the explanation, if apart from all the games like slots almost all are those of the same provider? It seems to me that the slots are a chance to win or lose and mere luck, but what about these statistics, I have read that if they are audited, then that means that the audits are reliable? Is there no special software that performs the audit of the audit? i.e. a kind of external auditor who can say if the first audit of the site is reliable or manipulated? It's interesting, because it all starts with the famous RTP, which we all look for when it's high, but it must have its thing behind it.

*edit.

when he played at casino because even if they change casinos, it doesn't guarantee that they can get a definite win, especially if luck is not on their side, no matter how often they change casinos, there is no guarantee that they will be able to get a definite win. I have a friend who is like this, where he experienced defeat when playing at casino I mean it won't change the chances of winning in gambling.

Slot games are of course one of the games that in my opinion is a game of chance, because there is no way to increase the chances of winning if it is not due to luck, although slot games sometimes provide an RTP for players to take into consideration, but in my opinion this is not the case. had a big influence on his game. with those who think a high RTP will make it easy to win, I don't think it's possible. in slot games we just need to click and click then wait for luck to be on our side.

[Odusko]

It should be possible to provide proof of audits same as proof of history of the gambler this is a requirement for licensing in some cases, although I don't know how profable it is to get such information in whole or just in time frame such as proof of audits in the last 90 days which comprises of the players history on the casinos.
The site could provide records on deposits, bet history and withdrawal history also among other things but the mentioned are the most data required for an individual account audits.

[LUCKMCFLY]

In the case that we are in a casino X and it happens what has always happened, we lose a lot, and in other casinos we win with the same game, as they have said above, what is then the explanation, if apart from all the games like slots almost all are those of the same provider? It seems to me that the slots are a chance to win or lose and mere luck, but what about these statistics, I have read that if they are audited, then that means that the audits are reliable? Is there no special software that performs the audit of the audit? i.e. a kind of external auditor who can say if the first audit of the site is reliable or manipulated? It's interesting, because it all starts with the famous RTP, which we all look for when it's high, but it must have its thing behind it.

*edit.

when he played at casino because even if they change casinos, it doesn't guarantee that they can get a definite win, especially if luck is not on their side, no matter how often they change casinos, there is no guarantee that they will be able to get a definite win. I have a friend who is like this, where he experienced defeat when playing at casino I mean it won't change the chances of winning in gambling.

Slot games are of course one of the games that in my opinion is a game of chance, because there is no way to increase the chances of winning if it is not due to luck, although slot games sometimes provide an RTP for players to take into consideration, but in my opinion this is not the case. had a big influence on his game. with those who think a high RTP will make it easy to win, I don't think it's possible. in slot games we just need to click and click then wait for luck to be on our side.

Yes, luck is what is most often referred to when it comes to playing in a casino and specifically slot machines, and although there are many tips, strategies and techniques for playing, I believe that in the end only the luck of the player influences it. Although I am a player who does not play flat, I always innovate and seek to do other things to obtain victories, perhaps that is why I am always in constant search for knowledge in games of chance, you could say that yes, I am a researcher in that sense. Although everything points to mere luck, I am one of those who does not clip the wings of the players, if they believe in strategies, then learning is not bad, perhaps one of those strategies will make them win.

[EarnOnVictor]

It should be possible to provide proof of audits same as proof of history of the gambler this is a requirement for licensing in some cases, although I don't know how profable it is to get such information in whole or just in time frame such as proof of audits in the last 90 days which comprises of the players history on the casinos.
The site could provide records on deposits, bet history and withdrawal history also among other things but the mentioned are the most data required for an individual account audits.

What purpose will that even serve? The proof of audit not received directly from an external firm can't be trusted, yes, it can't, not in this technological age. I advise all gamblers to only gamble where they can at least trust their overall service on an average scale, or above average scale, and when the casino does some suspective activity, it should be questioned to the point that a resolved neutral ground is maintained. This is the situation where the gambler will let go of something but I hope it shouldn't have to do with their direct money but ensuring fair play.

In other words, asking any casino for an internal audit or proof is just a waste of time. As for the profiting remark, nothing is profitable here, because if the casino wants to pay some disparities, they would have accepted their fault in the first place, however, if they did not accept their fault and still furnished the person with proof, then know that it is either the proof is genuine where it will naturally and truthfully exonerate them from any faults and payment or it is the doctor where it will not prompt them to still pay the gambler still.

So no profits in the proof whatsoever but a means of verification. Nonetheless, records like deposits and withdrawals are easily seen by both parties, but some extras like flaws and adjustments might only be known internally, which makes it still easy to cover it up if they want to.

[AmoreJaz]

It should be possible to provide proof of audits same as proof of history of the gambler this is a requirement for licensing in some cases, although I don't know how profable it is to get such information in whole or just in time frame such as proof of audits in the last 90 days which comprises of the players history on the casinos.
The site could provide records on deposits, bet history and withdrawal history also among other things but the mentioned are the most data required for an individual account audits.

What purpose will that even serve? The proof of audit not received directly from an external firm can't be trusted, yes, it can't, not in this technological age. I advise all gamblers to only gamble where they can at least trust their overall service on an average scale, or above average scale, and when the casino does some suspective activity, it should be questioned to the point that a resolved neutral ground is maintained. This is the situation where the gambler will let go of something but I hope it shouldn't have to do with their direct money but ensuring fair play.

In other words, asking any casino for an internal audit or proof is just a waste of time. As for the profiting remark, nothing is profitable here, because if the casino wants to pay some disparities, they would have accepted their fault in the first place, however, if they did not accept their fault and still furnished the person with proof, then know that it is either the proof is genuine where it will naturally and truthfully exonerate them from any faults and payment or it is the doctor where it will not prompt them to still pay the gambler still.

So no profits in the proof whatsoever but a means of verification. Nonetheless, records like deposits and withdrawals are easily seen by both parties, but some extras like flaws and adjustments might only be known internally, which makes it still easy to cover it up if they want to.

What you can do on this matter is just rely on casino's reputation as you can't get that info. Because if the casino is running suspicious, there will be rumours or you will hear complaints from their players. And to think that no casino is disclosing this kind of info, don't think that they will. So for me, it is more of reputation of the casino you need to look out for.  Very rare that you encounter a gambler who is very worried about the RTP of the casino. It is more on reputation. If you are confident that the casino is running legit and provably fair, you won't bother asking if their RTP is indeed the way it should be.

[paxmao]

It should not be very difficult if they were actually interested in doing so. I think is as simple as getting an auditing company that can work in two possible ways: a direct one, by creating "mystery shoppers" and get the returns for real or by simply examining the accounting and the books. However, in the end this is about how much you would trust the auditing guys themselves - the company I mean.

[dimonstration]

It should not be very difficult if they were actually interested in doing so. I think is as simple as getting an auditing company that can work in two possible ways: a direct one, by creating "mystery shoppers" and get the returns for real or by simply examining the accounting and the books. However, in the end this is about how much you would trust the auditing guys themselves - the company I mean.

Well said, even trusting the provider itself is a very hard task as solid gambler especially if you are losing frequently. Having a company that will audit slot provider will be very hard to convince everyone that the result is fair since there’s no popular audit company available to check online games provider regularly.

Most importantly, how they can maintain their audit regularly while provider can modify their games if they want when the auditor is not conducting an audit unlike physical slot machines which the auditor can check physically and provide some seal to the machine to protect authenticity of their audit.

[Latecomer1]

I tried to test RTP % manually with my own money.

Well... I got into online gambling last year and lost pretty bad... I'm mean never had cashed out winnings.. just deposit and lose.. deposit and lose.. Tried 4 different online casinos that were recommended by some sites.. but same result.. Now all the bitcoin I bought for investment dropped in value by about half.. was all spent in gambling.  It was funny that about right after I gambled away my last bit of bitcoin.. the value sky rocketed.. Anyways... like the most of gamblers, I started blame casinos instead of me.  They got to be cheating, and the guru sites are all in it together!  
so I began recording my outcomes of all the spins.  Then I saw one casino had this game history section where it shows all my bet and winning for past 100 spins.  So at first I'd bet $1/spin, so it would be easy to calculate and set auto spin for 100 spins and then after I go to game history and manually typed results in Excel.  They didn't allow me to copy and paste game history section.  I also recorded time and date.. then save... then play another 100 spins .. record and save... I know it is very small data to conclude RTP% of the slot game, but I decided that my randomness will make up for for it at the end.  You know like when people taking poll from groups of people picked randomly to predict the outcome?... so I played at random times, random games.
I got no where close to 90's % in RTP... mostly around 50% I think one session recorded 86%, but sometimes it would have 12%...
I tried different betting amount... upto $10 / spin... but I didn't notice anything different in pay outs, just my losses were much bigger.
Roulette had about same % also.. I guess since it wasn't live dealer, it's no different than a slot machine.
I recorded about 50 sessions on spread sheet, so roughly about 5000 spins..
Now all my credit card that I used to never carry balance over were MAXED OUT.  signed up for a new card and in 2 weeks $20K maxed out.

I shared my findings with casino customer service and asked to see the RTP audit reports, because what I'm seeing is so off from what stated RTP.  He told me he would have to get back to me after reviewing my spread sheet.  next day email came just saying in their record it shows my playing history shows 91% or something.  No word about my records, or audit report.  So I asked again for the report and kindly asked if I was calculating the percentage wrong... and asked to look over my formula.   Just same reply came back.. their history shows that i've been paid over 90%.
I don't know if i should be mad, or sad... I guess I'm just mad at my self for being so stupid.

to make one confession, which will show how so freaking stupid I am is that... while I was recording and maxing out my cards.. I was playing different kind of slot game... what I mean is that I wanted to not win big bonus or jackpot.  I wanted to show the casino, that I revealed their scam.  I have hard data to show you guys are lying, so lower the RTP% more strong my argument will be.  the casinos are licensed in Curacao and I basically have no one to report, and I don't even think they will take my spreadsheet seriously.  Just like the casino customer service.  So, I beg you please no need for comments reminding me being an idiot, because already down and depressed, which is effecting me at everthing from job, marriage, family.. etc.. .  I know I deserve it.. but not now.. perhaps after 2025? you can post it.

[Magoo8]

Yes, they can. Trustworthy online casinos should make it possible for players to check the authenticity of the RTPs of the games they offer. They can either publish these results on their websites or share the information on where to read this data.

[Saint-loup]

Yes, they can. Trustworthy online casinos should make it possible for players to check the authenticity of the RTPs of the games they offer. They can either publish these results on their websites or share the information on where to read this data.

I agree it should be a standard in the crypto gambling industry because they are usually not monitored closely by a serious gambling authority unlike fiat casinos in Europe, werstern world and most large countries around the world taking care of their citizens protection against abuses and scams, or at least being concerned by social, moral and eventually spiritual consequences of gambling.

[Eternad]

So, I know these audits are done on "brick n mortar" casinos, but what about the online gambling sites?

If these audits are done on online gambling sites, why are this not published online for transparency? It does not even have to be detailed reports, just a summary report of their findings.

There’s no demand asking for audit from online game providers that’s why they don’t release the audit report. Although, I still don’t know what’s trusted companies that do audit in online casino since they operates under Curacao license on casino.

Do slot games providers are truly being audited? Until now I thought we are just playing slots on trust basis because game providers is not being audited unlike the brick n mortar slot games.

IIRC there some game providers that being accused of having rigged games that’s why it was removed by some popular casino.

[Hispo]

In theory, it would be possible for casinos and game providers to give auditable proof of their RTP, which is supposed to match the one they indicate on their website and their advertisement. Though, to me it would seems that it has grown within the gambling industry (specially the part of it involving crypto casinos) the sentiment or expectation that gamblers need to trust the RTP declared by both the casino and the game providers without further inquiry, which is of course not the ideal case for anyone who look for more transparency.

At this point and considering the volume of this market and how developed it has become, it would take actual global regulation for game providers and casinos to open their software to auditors in order to protect the rights of gamblers, but that is far from happening.

Still keeping the RTP those casinos and game providers declare to the public, the house can be assured they will guaranteed a long term profitability.

[YOSHIE]

Can gambling sites provide proof of auditing that was done on their RTP?

You can, but you are not a user or bettor on online gambling sites, you must be an investor or the most important parties in the online casino, you will see audit evidence every month, how much the RTP costs that have been issued to players Meeting the requirements, the reason is that the audit is independent and objective, only certain parties can see it, VIP players are not necessarily given RTP audit evidence.

Because RTP is referring to the prize or percentage that is returned to online casino players, for that only related parties can see the audit evidence, if the evidence of the RTP is shown to the player, I think the casino will add new employees to show proof of RTP to all users, that is something that will not be done by online casino owners.

[famososMuertos]

Kakmakr (OP)

That is a recurring and very valid question, as there is indeed a possibility of manipulation, but I would say that in particular when they are not from known suppliers or that you get into a casino and this one offers you its own RTP. But nowadays most RTP are supervised, there is an international norm that demands it and usually casinos show their verification badges, there is also an online agency where you can verify that, in the same way as game licences are verified.

RTP: how to understand it?
It's usually simple, to understand, depending on your percentage is the guaranteed 'theorica' loss.

That said, one should change from Slot if he manages to be above 100%. ( Though otherwise too )

Today casinos have improved the delivery of RTP information, as you can see their percentages in 24 hours, 7 days and monthly, and obviously the theoretical one.

Conclusion: play in casinos where they show those badges, also you have playing to known suppliers, ofc, you can check the RTP in different game times (24h-D-W-M).

[Danydee]

The problem is not the RTP itself, but the (payment structure) of the game! A game with a 'fair' payment structure could be better than one with a higher RTP.

By miltiplying the small wins and make rarer the higher wins, a game could turn to very bad even with a very high RTP!

You're looking for a decent win to stop and cashout, but this is not very likely to happen!

Imagine 99% RTP, on regular wins the game repay 99% of the bet (which should happen 50% of the time), I could ad a big Jackpot but make it statistically very unlikely to happen, like 1 chance on Trillions... Did you get me?!


RTP can be variable, most Providers provides differents RTP versions of the games to the choice of the casinos.. a same game with 96% on your casino coult be found at less than 90% RTP on an other casino... there could be up to five versions of a same game, like from ~95% to down to 84% . We talked about that  here  .
Some providers don't always display the RTP infos, so it makes it confuse for the player who want to see!

So the RTP is just an indicator. What is audited is the algorithms, if they are working correctly.. provides the results expected, plus of course some security controls!

For certifications, the Gambling institutions get the certification from private auditing firms, to submit it to the approving institution to get the licence.
It is not like there is a "police" supervising and monitoring all by itsef!


Rigging on the gambling industry existed from it's very begginings! Why should this change.., because why?? this is been just because some kind people of will never change!


 Here is a famous example of a man who rigged a lottery and struck the jackpot many times before being caught just because of one behavior mistake, nothing else!
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Lotto_fraud_scandal

 And not only scam casinos can provide you a fake copy of a game, providers could rig to make controle over the yield,  with or without casino knowledge.. maybe just because they are paid by percentage, or just to show to the casino on the stats that they provide a good yield so they get popularized!