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I would like to assert that it is up to a novice investor to decide based on their own judgment what they need to know and what they should learn about Bitcoin investing but at this stage one should learn along with investing. In reality, everyone will make this comment that the basics should be learned first because the Bitcoin market is a very risky and complex market. Before investing, one should understand the technology and blockchain concepts but when a novice tries to study these topics, then perhaps before investing, he may become depressed about Bitcoin due to the mental stress, so if you start simply and spend few hours a day without setting aside a specific time, maybe even inexperienced investors will have the opportunity to learn about this topic.
With your response, it still seems that you, @Just Say, continue to emphasize some need for learning some unspecified basics beyond determining the availability of sufficient discretionary funds, which I continue to proclaim is patronizing since each person should be able to figure out the extent to which he may or may not need to know more than just determining that he has sufficient discretionary funds. Another thing is that each person should be able to get the fuck started and adjust his level of discretionary funds so that he is getting started while he is learning and figuring out a reasonable amount.
Of course any regular newbie could determine for himself that he is not comfortable enough to get started, if he might get caught up with concerns about the places where he might be sourcing his bitcoin, he could get caught up with not being sure exactly how much discretionary funds he currently has available and/or even have concerns about his future cashflow (income/expenses), so it surely could be the case that any person could decide to figure out the parts of his own cashflow that he is having trouble determining, and he is not able to resolve his concerns by merely adjusting his starting position size to be a smaller amount. By the way, I personally find that so many newbie normies already know enough to get started right away, the main adjustment that they likely need to make is to adjust their position size down so that they can potentially look further into any of the potentially relevant concerns that they might have.
Many times both newbies who have bitcoin and even newbie low coiners who are in their early stages of bitcoin accumulation, they get caught up upon largely irrelevant concerns in regards to their believing that they need to know more about bitcoin and/or more about whether the bitcoin price might go up, down or sideways, and likely newbie no coiners and/or newbie low coiners need not be getting overly distracted by perceptions of BTC price movements for years and years and years, since they are likely way better off to just ongoingly buy bitcoin for years and years and to figure out their own budgeting and cashflow matters (and how much they want to allocate to bitcoin) rather than getting distracted by mostly irrelevant BTC price dynamic concerns.
So, perhaps it bears some repeating that concerns about personal cashflow in the present and into the near to medium term are likely way more relevant in regards to basic matters that might need to be somewhat understood and/or studied rather than beliefs that much if any value come from getting into various nitty gritties to try to understand bitcoin in any kind of meaningful way beyond maybe just recognizing the existence of sound money potentiality.
Surely, when it comes to bitcoin many folks will focus upon number go up ideas, yet the truth of the matter is that there is no real way to have confidence about whether the number is going to go up, down or sideways in the short to medium term, and perhaps a decent number of guys will resolve their uncertainties about short-to-medium term concerns about whether the number will go up, and resolve to assess that number has good chances of going up in the longer term, so then they get so much distracted into largely irrelevant attempts to assess whether or when bitcoin's number is going to go up based on it having number go up technology.
So sound money ideas or financial sovereignty ideas end up getting mixed in with number go up ideas, so there can be confusion regarding why guys are investing in bitcoin, and surely there can be difficulties figuring out any of the strength of the bitcoin investment thesis justifications for even getting involved in bitcoin, and surely I consider that those strength of the bitcoin thesis ideas do not need to be resolved in order for newbies to both get started and to figure out some ongoing position size that is comfortable to them, even if they may well start out buying bitcoin in a fairly conservative way and perhaps increase the amounts that they are putting into bitcoin as their comfort level increases, which can take quite a bit of time to increase conviction and comfort levels in order to justify buying bitcoin in more aggressive ways.
But the risks without basic knowledge are real and costly as you can fall prey to scams, phishing scams or simply take wallet security for granted. Furthermore, without basic knowledge simple technical errors like losing your seed phrase, sending it to the wrong address or using the wrong network can result in lost money. Therefore, it's best to have basic knowledge especially starting with a small amount of capital and basic knowledge even if it's still minimal, so you can learn from your mistakes.
Are you saying that a new investor should first strengthen the security of the wallet and know that not losing the seed phrase and using the wrong address or the wrong network can lead to money loss? But I think such novice investors should not worry unnecessarily about the wallet before purchasing Bitcoin or other digital assets, but with some basic understanding, they can find the right path.
There are aspects of both wallet management (holding our own keys) and even keeping coins with 3rd parties that have varying levels of concern, and surely the more value that any of us put into bitcoin, the more comfort we likely are going to need to have in regards to the security of the value that we are holding (or 3rd party custodians are holding). Many of us recognize and appreciate that quite a bit of value comes from self-custody, yet there may well be quite a few people, even technologically sophisticated persons, who might not want to start, right away, with self-custodying their coins, and there may well be quite a few non-technologically astute persons who never get to the point that they are comfortable self-custodying their coins, to the extent that we can even assume that they may or may not have someone who they trust to help them with their self-custody set-up, if they were to go down the self-custody route.
But the risks without basic knowledge are real and costly as you can fall prey to scams, phishing scams or simply take wallet security for granted. Furthermore, without basic knowledge simple technical errors like losing your seed phrase, sending it to the wrong address or using the wrong network can result in lost money. Therefore, it's best to have basic knowledge especially starting with a small amount of capital and basic knowledge even if it's still minimal, so you can learn from your mistakes.
Are you saying that a new investor should first strengthen the security of the wallet and know that not losing the seed phrase and using the wrong address or the wrong network can lead to money loss? But I think such novice investors should not worry unnecessarily about the wallet before purchasing Bitcoin or other digital assets, but with some basic understanding, they can find the right path.
I think your statement that novice investors "don't need to worry too much" about wallets before buying Bitcoin or other digital assets is both inaccurate and highly risky. It's important to emphasize that when beginners start exploring the world of crypto assets like Bitcoin, understanding wallet management and its risks is a key foundation that
must be mastered. Why I say understanding wallet security is crucial for beginners, it is in line with the principle of "Not your keys, not your assets".
Yes, self-custody brings value to bitcoin and to people who are self-custodying their bitcoin, yet you seem to be imposing your values on others and even locking a lot of people out of bitcoin if you believe that they "have to" learn and "master" self-custody before getting started.
If a beginner uses a non-custodial wallet and loses the private key/Seed Phrase, the assets stored in it will be locked forever and no one can help recover them, including the wallet developer.
Exactly, which is part of the reason that some newbies are not going to be willing to go down the self-custody route, even if you are presuming that they are able to go down such self-custody route.. and you are presuming that wallet "mastery" is within the grasp of anyone deserving to get into bitcoin.
Maintaining wallet security can also prevent beginners from the threat of fraud (Phishing) because usually novice investors are the main targets of fraudsters who want to drain all their assets.
If a newbie gets started buying bitcoin with $100 or $10 or some other amount, and maybe the newbie decides to buy the same amount of bitcoin every week, and perhaps the newbie does not have time to look into bitcoin for several weeks, yet at the time that the newbie gets started, such newbie sets up an account on an exchange so that he can buy bitcoin every week (he may even set up auto-DCA) until his plan is to look further into bitcoin in 3-4-ish weeks. You think that he cannot decide for himself to get started and perhaps to look into those potential security matters at a later time?
Maybe when the guy comes back to looking into bitcoin after he had decided to invest $30 per week into bitcoin, and 4 weeks had passed, so he had already bought $120 worth of bitcoin, maybe he decides to study bitcoin and cashflow management for around 2-3 hours each week, and maybe one of the first things that he does is make a list of things that he feels that he needs to study..and maybe or maybe he chooses to put security high on his list of things that he feels that he needs to study. Perhaps one of the most important things that he feels that he needs to study is his own cashflow management. Maybe another thing that happens is that he plans to spend 2-3 hours per week studying bitcoin, yet many weeks he get distracted into other matters, and maybe this newbie bitcoiner has some kind of attention deficit disorder, yet he still continues to buy $30 per week of bitcoin with an intention of looking further into the matter... so it could end up being months and months before he gets around to trying to study bitcoin further, but he gets confused about the ideas around security, so he focuses on subjects that he find to be more relatable.
Do you think that the above guy needs to stop buying bitcoin or can he use his own independent judgement to do what he considers to be the best for his own situation? Yes, we know certain aspects of bitcoin that might be preferable and/or better, yet individuals are going to make their choices and run the risks of their choices, even if there might be some better ways of doing things that they are not doing and they have determined what they are going to do, whether they are sufficiently aware of the alternatives or not, they will suffer the consequences and/or enjoy the benefits of their actions and/or their inactions.
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However, there are few things that worth understanding before investing into bitcoin, such as volatility, importance of keeping keeping your emergency funds aside, and also need to avoid investing funds meant for essential expenses,
all these don’t need month of study but can help prevent common mistakes.
It seems to me that we cannot determine how much time any of the study may or may not take, and there surely are quite a few people who might make a plan that seems reasonable, and then they may not stick with their previous plan. Yet, they are still free to both get started and to continue buying bitcoin (if that is what they want to do) based on both the plan that they made and various assessments that they make along the way, even if their judgements about what to do or what not to do is not agreeable to what any other persons might end up choosing to do.
It seems to me that as newbies invest into bitcoin, they should become more and more incentivized to learn both about bitcoin and about cashflow management practices as the amount of their investment goes up and up and up, yet guys make all kinds of mistakes and don't always realize the risks that they are putting themselves in when they fail/refuse to make certain preparations or to look into certain matters, yet it still seems to me that they are still free to determine how much bitcoin they are going to buy each week based on their then current knowledge level and whether or not they are learning the right lessons along the way.
There is a difference between figuring out some of the basics, such as making sure to invest within discretionary funds, and then if guys end up applying the basics in ways that even make sense under their own interpretation of what is "basic."
Maybe we have a conversation with someone who believes that they are investing in bitcoin, and we might find several flaws with what they are doing, and maybe we might say something about their flaws and maybe we will not, and whether we say anything may well depend on our relationship with them, since sometimes we might try to point someone out to better resources or to point out better practices, yet they might consider that what they are doing is completely reasonable, and they might not even be a dumb person, even if they might have some wrong ideas about bitcoin, about investing and/or about good cashflow management practices.
Personally, I frequently try to talk about and promote good practices, yet sometimes there might be some relevance in comparing good practices to bad practices in order to show how they differ from one another, and I tend to find it less productive to talk about a lot of the dumb things that people do, even though sometimes they can be pointed out, while at the same time acknowledging that people can choose to do whatever they like, even dumb shit, even though there may well be practices that are better than what they seem to be choosing to do.
You are fighting the example. I gave you an example of a guy who already knows that he has $100 extra each week and he decided to start with $30 per week, so why can't he just start and he does not need to know or study all of those areas on your list before getting started.
The root of our argument is the interpretation of words.
I don't think so. We were talking about what is required to get started, and you proclaim way more things to be required than I do.
When you asked me what is needed to start, I answered in a way that does not take into account the minimum a person can start with . but rather the requirements i give that from my perspective, can provide a useful foundation for beginners.
Yeah, but are all those things required before getting started or can they be learned along the way as being important to learn in the early stages of investing?
There is a difference with what is needed to start versus what might be potential priorities to learn in the early stages of investing.
Another thing is that even your list of priorities, other guys may or may not agree with your assessment in regards to what are priorities
So I understand why the issues seem more complex and broader than the answers. I did not mean to impose any conditions as a substitute for the ability to make independent decisions. However, if my language had conveyed that idea, I could have expressed the issue better.
I think that if you proclaim that you believe that your items to be high priority items that may not need to be known before getting started, and also leave room that other guys might have other opinions about your items, then at least, they would not be communicated about in terms of being mandatory to know before getting started buying bitcoin.
I personally like to attempt to give a lot of latitude to each person to figure out what they need or what they don't need, which is part of the reason that I continue to assert the somewhat vague standard of having common sense, yet for sure, even guys who have common sense may well need some practice using their common sense so that they come to conclusions that are more logical and less emotional, and so many times guys have a sufficient amount of skills and abilities, even though they still may need a lot of practice in order to come to the right kinds of conclusions, and some guys have trouble doing what they tell themselves (or plan) that they are going to do, some sense normal guys might have troubles in both setting their priorities and then sticking with their priorities once they set their priorities.
So surely it tends to take a lot of practice to have self-discipline and to practice the self-discipline on a regular basis in order to reinforce the self-discipline, and so some guys are going to have more troubles with their self-discipline than others, yet from my point of view, a guy's recognition that he has troubles with self-discipline should not be something that he has to resolve prior to getting started, even though a guy who recognizes that he has an issue with self-discipline will be in a better position to fix his problematic issue as compared to a guy who does not recognize it, so each guy has to figure out any of the various areas that he may well need to work on improving. There may also be guys who have issues with self-discipline who recognize that they have issues with self-discipline, yet they may also conclude that their self-discipline issue is not a BIG enough problem that should inhibit them from getting started investing in bitcoin and even continuing to invest in bitcoin even if they might suffer ongoing damages based on the existence of an issue that they
I accept this part of the criticism. However, I was not contradicting your example, or implying that the person could not start.
I surely read your list as being something that you believed were needed prior to getting started buying bitcoin, so surely there sometimes can be wording that can clarify what is meant, and yeah, sometimes guys will get confused by certain kinds of wording, so in that sense, sometimes what we mean to say might not be understood by some of the readers, including but not limited to yours truly.
I felt that he may not have formally studied the topics listed, but his decision seemed related to those topics. An adult can start using his own judgment. I agree. I hope you will see this as a difference of opinion rather than a disagreement. Your comment has helped me to think more clearly about my position.
Of course, each of us may well have difference of opinion in regards to specifically what we believe that we might need on an individual basis, and we also may well have differences of opinions in regards to what we believe might be needed generally for any newbie coming into bitcoin, and surely I tend to limit my list of restrictions towards guys determining that they have sufficient discretionary funds and having common sense, even though I would also concede that basics also involves sourcing of the coins to the extent that some guys might feel that they need to look into sourcing options that they might have or if they might start out their sourcing through some recommendation that they might receive. Surely any of the areas that I consider to be basics could still end up being areas that any newbie might need to feel sufficiently comfortable, so sometimes if we speak in some generalities regarding what we believe any newbie needs, when it comes to the particulars, they may well assess any of those areas differently and even come to differing conclusions in regards to whether they have enough information (and comfort) to get started or if they might feel that they need to spend additional time assessing certain aspects that we may or may not consider to be basic, yet each person has to figure out for himself in terms of what is sufficient knowledge/comfort, and if he might feel that he might need to look into the matter further, even though I personally tend to give quite a bit of emphasis towards getting started, which from my perspective tends to not involve starting out BIG, even though surely some guys might have more experience with prior investing and/or cashflow management in which their experiences might cause them to consider going in BIG with a lump sum or a couple of lump sums rather than starting out with something like DCA that might be spread out weekly or some other seemingly reasonable periodic basis.
There may well be some guys who ONLY have income from their regular work that does not add up to a lot of extra discretionary funds each week, and there may well be other guys who already have funds sitting on the sidelines or maybe some other investments that they are wanting to get out of and may use proceeds from their other funds to get started in bitcoin. Guys do not necessarily come to bitcoin with similar circumstances, and even though I frequently quote the areas of the
9 individual factors, I am not even proclaiming that guys need to have their 9 individual factors figured out prior to getting started investing in bitcoin, yet I consider the 9 individual factors to be factors that are ongoingly changing and perhaps from time to time guys might be in a better position to spend some time sorting out one or more of their 9 individual factors so that they can better tailor either their start in bitcoin or even to tailor some changes that they might be considering making at a later point after they had already been buying bitcoin for some time.
