DIY Seed Storage on a soda can

[satscraper]

Honestly i'm more interested with it's encoding format rather than usage of soda can. It's easy to understand since basically it's just certain line indicate certain position of binary bits.

Regarding binary encoding format, I would prefer for SEED words  that one which is based on the clock-dial. Such format is easy for  application at using washers as the storage media. For instance, the washer holding the word "sausage" ( dec number 1534, binary number 10111111110 in BIP39 list) would look like this

Digits near the edge of the washer are placed just for guidance in  the bit positions. Vertical is the setting out line.

[1714300038]

1714300038

[1714300038]

1714300038

[1714300038]

1714300038

[1714300038]

1714300038

[1714300038]

1714300038

[Medusah]

Save the decoding sheets on your computer. Print them out, laminate the paper, and store them somewhere safely.

I know, but it may be a lot less flexible.  With the seed phrase, you just write it down and you can store it essentially all over.  Inside your house, within the ground, within the walls, in books... all over and in any size.  The decoding sheets are exceptionally long to be put away in a place that can go unnoticed, I think.  You could ignore the sheets and just write in a small text how to convert the glyphs to bits, but at that point the recovery will be another issue, since no software I know permits you to enter bits rather than words. 

[PrivacyG]

But, I do have a couple of concerns...

Is BitCan's glyph system a widely recognized standard? For example, if something happens to us, will anyone else be able to figure out what this is all about?

Here is my concern with such new ways of storing the Seed.  If something happens to us and a relative of ours finds this sheet.  Is it more likely for our relative to post the full code publicly asking for help than it would be if they found a list of 12 words?

The mystery of finding 12 words or 12 groups of alphabetical letters is easy to solve.

I looked up 'found 12 words on a piece of paper' and the first result was an Atomic Wallet page explaining what a 12 word backup Seed phrase is (https://support.atomicwallet.io/article/35-what-is-12-word-recovery-phrase).
I looked up 'found 12 words on a piece of metal' and the 22nd result is an Unchained article about Seed phrase backup methods (https://unchained.com/blog/seed-phrase-backup-methods-recording-paper-metal/).

Arguably, it is more likely to find the words on a piece of paper than on a piece of metal.  And the most relevant result for metal was already on a position 22 times lower than the relevant result for paper.

This means it is also so much easier to prevent some body who knows nothing about Bitcoin posting the full picture of the coded sheet on the Internet for some stranger to end up stealing the entire balance.

Now as a relative of the deceased who does not have any clue about their Bitcoin holdings or does know they were using Bitcoin but does not know how Bitcoin is actually stored.  How do you look up and find information for the Seed backup method described by OP without particularly mentioning 'Bitcoin soda can seed' among the search terms?  You can not really.  Try it out, I could not find a relevant result even after specifically mentioning 'soda can' in the search query, as I thought it may help tremendously.

So are the chances not higher to end up losing the Coins?

[Pmalek]

So are the chances not higher to end up losing the Coins?

Of course, they are. Add any additional complexity to a standard recovery phrase, and you increase the possibility of losing your bitcoin protected with such a system. It doesn't even have to be this complex to get you in trouble. Add a 13th/25th-word passphrase and loss it, and your coins will be gone, unless the passphrase can be bruteforced. Mess up with your multisig, and you'll lock your coins away from yourself. Use a completely random derivation path (for whatever reason) without writing down what you used somewhere, and you have again lost your coins, unless you figure it out.

[dkbit98]

Also that Cans are note from pure aluminum, they contains Iron too and are subject to rust !

No, modern soda cans don't have any iron in them, it's all aluminum alloy with small percent of manganese and magnesium.
There are other material used for food cans but it's steel material, not iron.

Is it more likely for our relative to post the full code publicly asking for help than it would be if they found a list of 12 words?

No, they probably won't have a clue what the heck that is.
To me it looked liked characters from sci-fi movie, and I prefer having dots with number from words instead.
And if you want to encode something than it's better to use something like Seedkeeper cards from Satochip.

[m2017]

It is good, but choosing aluminum for storing seeds is not good, especially since it is susceptible to corrosion, compared to stainless steel, which is less susceptible to deformation or bending and tolerates heat well.

It will be more difficult to decrypt the code in recovery if the slightest distortion occurs, as encoding the word using a single code makes any distortion occur in a row or column, leading to the loss of 3 words and a longer time for brute force.



One mistake will increase the number of available options. If there were two rows for each word, it would be better.

Looking at this picture, dominoes come to mind. You can cut small pieces of stainless steel to the size of a domino and apply these glyphs to them. One glyph (seed phrases) per domino. Connect the plates to each other using bolts on both sides and you will get a solid, reliable structure that doesn't take up much space. This is how I would modernize this method.

I see the following problem:
You'll have to save the glyph's wordlist. Again on a piece of (big) metal and carefully hidden? Otherwise if lose this wordlist your glyphs become useless.

You can encrypt the seed-phrase in any way, not necessarily using glyphs. But the obvious disadvantage of encryption is the need for a wordlist and the occurrence of errors during decryption. Because of this, I would not use this method as the only one.

[Medusah]

Looking at this picture, dominoes come to mind. You can cut small pieces of stainless steel to the size of a domino and apply these glyphs to them.

That's a bad idea and that's why I don't like it when people come up with their own ad hoc schemes.  The order of the glyphs or the words is important.  If you lose the order, then you need to use brute force, which is feasible for 12 (not for 24), but I do not understand why getting into all this trouble. 

[fillippone]

I would add one more drawback.  Only BitCan offers support for it.  For what duration is this project being developed?  To what extent has it been tested?  All I am worried about is that using the glyphs alone will not be enough to recover the seed phrase in the distant future.  Not like BIP39, which is compatible with nearly all HD wallets.  The process of translating glyphs to bits and back again to words has already caused me anxiety.

There is no need to refer to the site or other,  the glyphs are just a way for writing the BIP39 binaries.. 0 for the first word-> converted to binary numeral system = 0 ,  the last word (2047) converted to binary = 11111111111 .

( Order from right to left )

                             



   You can just remember it, it is pretty easy !

The association between gliph lines and correct bit is difficult to remember. These backups needs to be understandable by a casual user, if we won't there to assist them.
To me, the simpler, the better, and the extra risk of this complication is not worth the extra security it can (pun not intended) offer.