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Author Topic: White House Petition to AMEND IRS NOTICE 2014-2 Taxing virtual currency/Bitcoin  (Read 4089 times)
amspir
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March 30, 2014, 01:36:51 AM
 #41

You will fall into " receiving funds from outside of U.S." and its not pretty when I.R.S ask you.

We have some rights, the fifth amendment is one of them.

The legal burden of proving ownership would be on the I.R.S. I would not be legally obligated to say anything.

The fact: they will not be able to enforce these tax rules.

Here's where you're wrong:  
The IRS sees you get some income via a report (required by law) via a third party.
The IRS notes that you didn't report this income on your tax return.
The IRS takes you to tax court as a civil action, not a criminal action, if you disagree with their findings.   The IRS supposes that you owe tax on all that income.  It is a civil action, so the court doesn't require the IRS proving that it was income beyond a reasonable doubt.  You are not innocent until proven guilty, as you would be in criminal court.
The tax court judge orders that you pay the tax.
It becomes criminal when you don't follow the court order.  The IRS must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not follow the court order for a conviction.
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seriouscoin
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March 30, 2014, 01:37:31 AM
 #42

You will fall into " receiving funds from outside of U.S." and its not pretty when I.R.S ask you.

We have some rights, the fifth amendment is one of them.

The legal burden of proving ownership would be on the I.R.S. I would not be legally obligated to say anything.

The fact: they will not be able to enforce these tax rules.

This all said, I'm gonna go wash my coins real quick, Pretty sure my IP is in the ledger from the last time I transferred them.

Then by all means, let us know how it goes a year from now Cheesy

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March 30, 2014, 01:41:29 AM
 #43

The IRS sees you get some income via a report (required by law) via a third party.

None of my bitcoins came from parties knowing my name.
Clearly You're one of those sheep who purchased from Mt. Gox, ROFLMAO.
youqi
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March 30, 2014, 01:44:23 AM
 #44

i want to see what comes out with this coin.

1MBkYr5p7126sdtyZ4aG7neny4Tjkuynqc

Thanks
jonald_fyookball
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March 30, 2014, 01:44:53 AM
 #45

The IRS sees you get some income via a report (required by law) via a third party.

None of my bitcoins came from parties knowing my name.
Clearly You're one of those sheep who purchased from Mt. Gox, ROFLMAO.

If you can evade taxes, more power to you.  But for the rest of us,
It's still not a problem.  

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March 30, 2014, 01:45:24 AM
 #46

Then by all means, let us know how it goes a year from now Cheesy

A better test, A year from now, Will I.R.S. have prosecuted anybody.

I suspect at least a few incredibly foolish newbies will get the hammer from the greedy yet indebted U.S. government.
amspir
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March 30, 2014, 01:46:34 AM
 #47

The IRS sees you get some income via a report (required by law) via a third party.

None of my bitcoins came from parties knowing my name.
Clearly You're one of those sheep who purchased from Mt. Gox, ROFLMAO.
Clearly, I'm not announcing an attempt to evade taxes on a public forum.  ROFLMAO.
I'm just not ignorant of the ways that the IRS can put you in jail.
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March 30, 2014, 01:47:09 AM
 #48


IRS ruling clearly indicates there are 2 possible ways of acquiring btc:

1) Mining:  a taxable event that will be in your gross income based on fair market value of the mined coins. There will be another taxable event when you sell those coins, thus fall into capital gain.

That one sounds problematic. There are any number of reasons why the coins are not worth, in your mining machine that mined them, what any market happens to be offering for someone else's bitcoins already on that market at that time.

You might not even actually have any bitcoins by the time you actually go to move them off the mining machine to somewhere else, let alone by the time you actually get clearance at an exchange to exchange them.

So it seems unreasonable. Until you sell them you have no idea whether they are worth anything at all, they are a digital fiction that might someday turn out to be worth something but then again might not.

Same thing when you "farm" a magic sword or a pile of gold in World of Warcraft. Until you actually manage to sell them they are more a waste of time effort and money than any kind of gain, regardless of how many "exchanges" exist at which you hypothetically "could" sell them or exchange them.

Mining is like growing pork bellies, or milking cows, or growing wheat. Until you actually trade the stuff you won't know if it was worth anything at all.

For that matter how does mineral mining work?

Do coal mines pay tax each time a miner swings a shovel and mines another spadeful of coal?

In bitcoin mining I pour my capital into hardware and electricity (and hopefully into electricity-creating hardware) and someday hope to sell coins for more capital than I spend mining them.

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March 30, 2014, 01:48:15 AM
 #49

The IRS sees you get some income via a report (required by law) via a third party.

None of my bitcoins came from parties knowing my name.
Clearly You're one of those sheep who purchased from Mt. Gox, ROFLMAO.

Do you realize the report isnt from ppl who sold you coins right?

Its when you spend them or sell on exchanges. If you sell your coins locally, then the risk is carried over to the buyer.
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March 30, 2014, 01:48:50 AM
 #50

Clearly, I'm not announcing an attempt to evade taxes on a public forum.  ROFLMAO.
What taxes are you referring to?
I don't recall admitting any ownership of any BTC.

Where is the proof?

Clearly you lack the ability to read/comprehend basic English, I'm ignoring you.
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March 30, 2014, 01:50:45 AM
 #51

Do you realize the report isnt from ppl who sold you coins right?

Its when you spend them or sell on exchanges. If you sell your coins locally, then the risk is carried over to the buyer.

I've never purchased bitcoins.
I've never wasted my time with a exchange.

Those of you who were/are day traders are the ones effected here.
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March 30, 2014, 01:51:50 AM
 #52


IRS ruling clearly indicates there are 2 possible ways of acquiring btc:

1) Mining:  a taxable event that will be in your gross income based on fair market value of the mined coins. There will be another taxable event when you sell those coins, thus fall into capital gain.

That one sounds problematic. There are any number of reasons why the coins are not worth, in your mining machine that mined them, what any market happens to be offering for someone else's bitcoins already on that market at that time.

You might not even actually have any bitcoins by the time you actually go to move them off the mining machine to somewhere else, let alone by the time you actually get clearance at an exchange to exchange them.

So it seems unreasonable. Until you sell them you have no idea whether they are worth anything at all, they are a digital fiction that might someday turn out to be worth something but then again might not.

Same thing when you "farm" a magic sword or a pile of gold in World of Warcraft. Until you actually manage to sell them they are more a waste of time effort and money than any kind of gain, regardless of how many "exchanges" exist at which you hypothetically "could" sell them or exchange them.

-MarkM-


The risk of having coins stolen is on you. You acquire a property, you're deemed to carry risk of storing it.

What i can see is the fair market value will be challenged. I bet every miner will use a lower price than current exchange rate.

seriouscoin
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March 30, 2014, 01:52:20 AM
 #53

Do you realize the report isnt from ppl who sold you coins right?

Its when you spend them or sell on exchanges. If you sell your coins locally, then the risk is carried over to the buyer.

I've never purchased bitcoins.
I've never wasted my time with a exchange.

Those of you who were/are day traders are the ones effected here.

Then you will spend your coins... or you have problems understanding my post too?
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March 30, 2014, 01:54:06 AM
 #54

The risk of having coins stolen is on you. You acquire a property, you're deemed to carry risk of storing it.

What i can see is the fair market value will be challenged. I bet every miner will use a lower price than current exchange rate.

It is not just theft, I could for example discover when I compare my wallet keys against the blockchain that it was not I who mined those coins at all but someone else.

Until I actually go get those coins I do not know who my machine has really been mining for since last I checked it was really me it was mining for.

Maybe though it would be useful to have an "at time the block was solved" price of bitcoin chart somewhere, adjusted if the chain is re-arranged, so that the value of each block's minted coins can be determined?

-MarkM-

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seriouscoin
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March 30, 2014, 01:55:14 AM
 #55


The risk of having coins stolen is on you. You acquire a property, you're deemed to carry risk of storing it.

What i can see is the fair market value will be challenged. I bet every miner will use a lower price than current exchange rate.

It is not just theft, I could for example discover when I compare my wallet keys against the blockchain that it was not I who mined those coins at all but someone else.

-MarkM-


Then you're not required to report any of that, the lucky person (LOL) now has tax liability.


The point is MarkM, filing tax is a volunteering work.

You will only have to explain to the IRS the source of the bitcoins that you spend.

If you bought it, then either capital gain or loss applies

If you mined it, then either capital gain or loss applies AND you DID report such mining income .
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March 30, 2014, 01:56:46 AM
 #56

Then you will spend your coins... or you have problems understanding my post too?
Why would a person who is not me be in a huge hurry to spend his/her BTC?

I understand everything you type, You don't understand the real value of BTC outside of it's fiat conversion ratio.

I'm a direct descendent from those who settled this land, More than anything else my lifeforce yearns for true freedom. BTC is small step towards the freedom that I yearn for.
BTC has more value than anything I could ever hold in my hand or consume through my mouth.
amspir
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March 30, 2014, 01:56:57 AM
 #57

Clearly, I'm not announcing an attempt to evade taxes on a public forum.  ROFLMAO.
What taxes are you referring to?
I don't recall admitting any ownership of any BTC.

Where is the proof?
To the IRS, it is when you create a taxable event, exchange them for cash or good and services, in a way that is reported to the IRS.   For instance, like buying a house with a duffel-bag full of cash or bitcoin.

Quote
Clearly you lack the ability to read/comprehend basic English, I'm ignoring you.
That wins this debate for sure, congratulations.
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March 30, 2014, 01:59:29 AM
 #58

This user is currently ignored.
Some people just don't get it.
seriouscoin
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March 30, 2014, 01:59:56 AM
 #59

Then you will spend your coins... or you have problems understanding my post too?
Why would a person who is not me be in a huge hurry to spend his/her BTC?

I understand everything you type, You don't understand the real value of BTC outside of it's fiat conversion ratio.

I'm a direct descendent from those who settled this land, More than anything else my lifeforce yearns for true freedom. BTC is small step towards the freedom that I yearn for.
BTC has more value than anything I could ever hold in my hand or consume through my mouth.

Bravo to you to fight for your own freedom. I wish you the best of luck. I'm not trolling.

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March 30, 2014, 02:02:51 AM
 #60

Bravo to you to fight for your own freedom. I wish you the best of luck. I'm not trolling.

Freedom is a ideal that may be out of reach, we should all try/hope for it anyhow.

I suspect the only way I will get any freedom is to leave on a self sustaining ocean house boat.
Solar panels, Desalination facilities, greenhouse, and etc. All too pricy for me at the moment.
Being mid ocean I could have all the salt/fish/seaweed(gross?) I could eat.
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