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Author Topic: The Lightning Network: A failure?  (Read 835 times)
B1-66ER
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April 12, 2024, 09:01:11 PM
 #81

BTC>In my mind, when I think about layered software stack architecture, I always make an analogy with the Bitcoin network and the IPv4 network (IPv6 being another network).

They all have finite IPv4 addresses of 32 bits in size, IPv6 has 128 bits, and Bitcoin also has a finite number.

So, I see Lightning Network scaling similar to how I saw IPv4 address exhaustion.

“The IPv4 addressing structure provides an insufficient number of publicly routable addresses to give a distinct address to every Internet device or service. This problem has been mitigated for some time by changes in the address allocation and routing infrastructure of the Internet. The transition from classful network addressing to Classless Inter-Domain Routing delayed the exhaustion of addresses substantially. In addition, network address translation (NAT) permits Internet service providers and enterprises to masquerade private network address space with only one publicly routable IPv4 address on the Internet interface of a main Internet router, instead of allocating a public address to each network device.”

Source: Wikipedia

The problem with my analogy may not be the best, but I’m not here to impose my view, just to learn from each other in a respectful chit-chat..
SegWit for BTC is the equivalent of NAT for IPv4.

It's a very good analogy, but only tech savvy people will get it...

Why senior board memebers like Frank is pissed about?
cryptosize
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April 12, 2024, 09:25:09 PM
 #82

BTC>In my mind, when I think about layered software stack architecture, I always make an analogy with the Bitcoin network and the IPv4 network (IPv6 being another network).

They all have finite IPv4 addresses of 32 bits in size, IPv6 has 128 bits, and Bitcoin also has a finite number.

So, I see Lightning Network scaling similar to how I saw IPv4 address exhaustion.

“The IPv4 addressing structure provides an insufficient number of publicly routable addresses to give a distinct address to every Internet device or service. This problem has been mitigated for some time by changes in the address allocation and routing infrastructure of the Internet. The transition from classful network addressing to Classless Inter-Domain Routing delayed the exhaustion of addresses substantially. In addition, network address translation (NAT) permits Internet service providers and enterprises to masquerade private network address space with only one publicly routable IPv4 address on the Internet interface of a main Internet router, instead of allocating a public address to each network device.”

Source: Wikipedia

The problem with my analogy may not be the best, but I’m not here to impose my view, just to learn from each other in a respectful chit-chat..
SegWit for BTC is the equivalent of NAT for IPv4.

It's a very good analogy, but only tech savvy people will get it...

Why senior board memebers like Frank is pissed about?
Franky has his own opinions about BTC scaling.
B1-66ER
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April 12, 2024, 09:43:34 PM
 #83

BTC>In my mind, when I think about layered software stack architecture, I always make an analogy with the Bitcoin network and the IPv4 network (IPv6 being another network).

They all have finite IPv4 addresses of 32 bits in size, IPv6 has 128 bits, and Bitcoin also has a finite number.

So, I see Lightning Network scaling similar to how I saw IPv4 address exhaustion.

“The IPv4 addressing structure provides an insufficient number of publicly routable addresses to give a distinct address to every Internet device or service. This problem has been mitigated for some time by changes in the address allocation and routing infrastructure of the Internet. The transition from classful network addressing to Classless Inter-Domain Routing delayed the exhaustion of addresses substantially. In addition, network address translation (NAT) permits Internet service providers and enterprises to masquerade private network address space with only one publicly routable IPv4 address on the Internet interface of a main Internet router, instead of allocating a public address to each network device.”

Source: Wikipedia

The problem with my analogy may not be the best, but I’m not here to impose my view, just to learn from each other in a respectful chit-chat..
SegWit for BTC is the equivalent of NAT for IPv4.

It's a very good analogy, but only tech savvy people will get it...

Why senior board memebers like Frank is pissed about?
Franky has his own opinions about BTC scaling.

I’m imagining F here on a small island in the UK and his opinion about that. The DWP - The Department for Work and Pensions should sell its block of 16,777,216 IP addresses.”

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/38744

 Tongue
cryptosize
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April 12, 2024, 11:10:04 PM
 #84

BTC>In my mind, when I think about layered software stack architecture, I always make an analogy with the Bitcoin network and the IPv4 network (IPv6 being another network).

They all have finite IPv4 addresses of 32 bits in size, IPv6 has 128 bits, and Bitcoin also has a finite number.

So, I see Lightning Network scaling similar to how I saw IPv4 address exhaustion.

“The IPv4 addressing structure provides an insufficient number of publicly routable addresses to give a distinct address to every Internet device or service. This problem has been mitigated for some time by changes in the address allocation and routing infrastructure of the Internet. The transition from classful network addressing to Classless Inter-Domain Routing delayed the exhaustion of addresses substantially. In addition, network address translation (NAT) permits Internet service providers and enterprises to masquerade private network address space with only one publicly routable IPv4 address on the Internet interface of a main Internet router, instead of allocating a public address to each network device.”

Source: Wikipedia

The problem with my analogy may not be the best, but I’m not here to impose my view, just to learn from each other in a respectful chit-chat..
SegWit for BTC is the equivalent of NAT for IPv4.

It's a very good analogy, but only tech savvy people will get it...

Why senior board memebers like Frank is pissed about?
Franky has his own opinions about BTC scaling.

I’m imagining F here on a small island in the UK and his opinion about that. The DWP - The Department for Work and Pensions should sell its block of 16,777,216 IP addresses.”

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/38744

 Tongue
Sell the IP block and buy BTC.

Profit! Wink
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April 12, 2024, 11:33:38 PM
 #85

It's been years since the Lightning Network was launched, yet adoption has been quite slow. Most people are still transacting on-chain, despite the fact that sometimes network fees increase to undesirable levels due to the Ordinals hype. The L2 scaling solution promised to boost mainstream adoption for BTC with its ultra-low fees and blazing-fast speeds. It's still flawed, despite being established for a few years now.

What do you think? Is the LN a failure? If not, why? Should we give it more time to mature? What is the main reason most exchanges, merchants and/or businesses haven't adopted it yet?

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Smiley
failed, in my personal opinion LN has not failed at all, the biggest obstacle for LN at the moment is adoption, people are still busy using on-chain bitcoin for their transactions and they don't even care when fees are at unreasonable values, apart from that is LN's reputation not yet big because maybe it is still very new, in the long term, the opportunity for LN adoption is quite large, by joining great influencers you can be sure that LN will not die, they themselves will help the liquidity of the LN process, just be patient.

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April 12, 2024, 11:40:20 PM
Last edit: April 13, 2024, 12:08:40 AM by franky1
 #86

It's been years since the Lightning Network was launched, yet adoption has been quite slow. Most people are still transacting on-chain, despite the fact that sometimes network fees increase to undesirable levels due to the Ordinals hype. The L2 scaling solution promised to boost mainstream adoption for BTC with its ultra-low fees and blazing-fast speeds. It's still flawed, despite being established for a few years now.

What do you think? Is the LN a failure? If not, why? Should we give it more time to mature? What is the main reason most exchanges, merchants and/or businesses haven't adopted it yet?

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Smiley
failed, in my personal opinion LN has not failed at all, the biggest obstacle for LN at the moment is adoption, people are still busy using on-chain bitcoin for their transactions and they don't even care when fees are at unreasonable values, apart from that is LN's reputation not yet big because maybe it is still very new, in the long term, the opportunity for LN adoption is quite large, by joining great influencers you can be sure that LN will not die, they themselves will help the liquidity of the LN process, just be patient.

LN is not bitcoin so not sure why you are getting so giddy about wanting LN adoption..
secondly LNs problems/obstacles are not the lack of adoption.. its actually LN's own problems and obstacles(flaws bugs, exploits), that are the issue of why its not getting adopted

did you know the more people that adopt it the more obstacles occur. yep the more bottlenecks and liquidity issues arise and cause more centralisation to occur and more IN-LN fee increases when more people join. and thats just economics/math of the way LN was designed in regards to moving value around a network

LN also has its own flaws, bugs and exploits even before people adopt it which LN devs admit now they cant fix which is also reason people wont adopt LN

and that not just my opinion. its actual details said by the LN devs themselves..
even 'poon' the progenitor, curator, conceiver(insert title) of LN has even moved onto other projects of doing subnetworks elsewhere

if you are hoping LN reaches its "1 million" milestone before core devs then decide its time to then scale the bitcoin network to cope with LN.. you are wrong and will be waiting forever.. we should be trying to get core devs to either relax their own centralised control to allow other brands of devs to make proposals on the bitcoin network of features for bitcoiners on the bitcoin network need/want to scale BITCOIN. or get core to stop delaying scaling BITCOIN and just get on with it. this has been an ongoing impedance for many years, they cant just keep on pretending they have to wait and find solutions and not know of exploits(which they were told about years ago) and instead actually do what they are put in positions to do, be bitcoin devs not alternate network promoters

LN is not the solution it makes out to be and the things it pretends to solve are limited thus doesnt solve the main issue, its just a niche subnetwork for niche service for a niche usecase of small amounts AT RISK(less secure).. not a solution to bitcoin scaling.. and trying to make people think its the 'all or nothing' thing everyone has to wait around for and hope and dream and give false snake oil sales promotions to recruit people into.. is just not even the right thing to do even if the network did fully function for all of the empty/broken/false promises that were made about it

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
DavidManningCA
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April 13, 2024, 12:54:00 AM
 #87

I'm glad LN failed. It was an attempt for one huge, bank-funded company to control Bitcoin.

Now everyone just uses other coins that have expanded the block size for day to day transactions.
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April 13, 2024, 02:10:31 AM
 #88

https://coingate.com/blog/post/crypto-payments-report-2024-q1

Quote
In general, the statistics from the first quarter of 2024 paint a compelling picture. The year started strong with 2,745 LN transactions in January, slightly dipping to 2,697 in February, before witnessing a substantial surge in March up to 3,673 orders.

Concurrently, the percentage of BTC payments made via the LN has climbed from 11.1% in January to an impressive 13.5% by March, marking the highest adoption rate of Lightning Network observed to date.

This trend strongly signals the market’s growing trust in the Lightning Network as an efficient and viable option for Bitcoin transactions.

So coingate is seeing decent usage of LN

No other payment processor that I could find gives out any information as to the percentages of which coins are used for purchases on their platform. I would think they would all be about the same but that's just a guess.

-Dave

 

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April 16, 2024, 11:26:20 AM
 #89

I'm glad LN failed. It was an attempt for one huge, bank-funded company to control Bitcoin.

Now everyone just uses other coins that have expanded the block size for day to day transactions.

Don't get your hopes too high. Especially when "Wall Street" is in the game. Giants like BlackRock and Fidelity might push the adoption of LN payments soon. They will only look for what's best for them (lower fees, near-instant transactions at the cost of centralization), instead of what's best for the people (decentralization, self-custody). I've read somewhere that the Bitcoin Core project is being funded by banks. I wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be the case with the LN in the future.

The "off-chain scaling solution" may be facing issues in terms of user experience and liquidity, but it will get "better" in the long run. Money is what makes the world go round, after all. So if the aformentioned entities pour money into the LN, developers will be well-funded to fix issues and improve the network. I sure hope BTC stays decentralized and censorship-resistant forever. Else, it was good 'til it lasted. Cheesy

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