Biden is asking Congress to kill the American Bitcoin mining industry

[EarnOnVictor]

-snip-
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?

Your question seems to create self-centeredness and division, and to what, Bitcoin mining? So, you mean this is the right place and avenue to ask for an election view? For me, it is off. You see, people often like to fake things simply because they want to exploit your weakness and gain from you, they could say or do whatever will please you just to achieve their aims. But for this administration to be natural enough and not mind the election coming to do what they believe is right for the US people is heroic on its own. Unlike what Donald Trump is doing now trying to campaign in line with people's minds whether it is the right thing or not, that's when you see people hailing him. It's all politics, it's all selfishness, just a desperate attempt to get there.

I see no reason why it should be mentioned in tax-related discussions like this. After all, the gradual tax initiative will be subjected to the House and not Biden alone, which means it is not Biden's government alone doing this if it eventually goes through, there will be a vote. And this tax is for the good of the American people, I wonder if it is Biden alone who will benefit from this.

Needless to say, miners are not even worth fighting for, let them remit part of what they earn too.

[laijsica]

He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.

So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.

Your idea is definitely correct! Biden can make a decision on his own, but it has to go through many steps in the form of a bill, in which case congress won't approve it. Maybe allow more taxation according to you 20% or 30% etc. But if so then the black market mining will increase which may deprive the US administration of huge amount of tax collection.

Despite all these odds, the impact on Bitcoin's price is minimal and its price will cross the mandatory target of $100k very soon. Bitcoin price is at the highest level in the last 200 days.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[DaveF]

Yes and no .....  

Why ?

New York (state) banned crypto mining...

`The New York Senate passed Bill S6486D banning cryptocurrency mining in the state when relying on carbon-based energy sources to power their operation.`

Just want to make the point that New York DID NOT ban mining.

1) If you had a mining facility up and running nothing changed*
2) If you wanted to setup a new mine using 100% renewable nothing changed

The * being that renewals of permits in the 2 years period that the bill is in effect for might be an issue...except for these 2 facts
1) There were 2 (3?) mines that were using old power plants that were specifically mentioned and exempt from the regualtion
and
2) There are / were no permit renewals coming though in the 2 years from the signing of the bill.


Unrelated but important a lot of places don't want large scale mining facilities due to the fact that they suck down a lot of power and don't supply many jobs.

Trust me if you had a ratio of 1 job per 100 miners you would have states clamoring to get them. But one of the ones upstate had something like 7500 miners and 15 full time workers and a couple of part time people. The local Taco Bell had more staff.....

-Dave

[spectre71]

Yes and no .....  

Why ?

New York (state) banned crypto mining...

`The New York Senate passed Bill S6486D banning cryptocurrency mining in the state when relying on carbon-based energy sources to power their operation.`

Just want to make the point that New York DID NOT ban mining.

1) If you had a mining facility up and running nothing changed*
2) If you wanted to setup a new mine using 100% renewable nothing changed

The * being that renewals of permits in the 2 years period that the bill is in effect for might be an issue...except for these 2 facts
1) There were 2 (3?) mines that were using old power plants that were specifically mentioned and exempt from the regualtion
and
2) There are / were no permit renewals coming though in the 2 years from the signing of the bill.


Unrelated but important a lot of places don't want large scale mining facilities due to the fact that they suck down a lot of power and don't supply many jobs.

Trust me if you had a ratio of 1 job per 100 miners you would have states clamoring to get them. But one of the ones upstate had something like 7500 miners and 15 full time workers and a couple of part time people. The local Taco Bell had more staff.....

-Dave

They pay a huge electric bill that supports power generation and people in the plant. They rent/buy the building, They pay taxes the sewage and water bills. In Texas they burn tons of excess generation that they pay for and doesn't get scuttled into "reactors" that burn of excess power into heat. During times of high grid demand the idle the machines out. These jobs pay higher than Taco Bell (nothing wrong with that job) so it's not 1 to 1. Besides they are pretty benign neighbors.

[DaveF]

They pay a huge electric bill that supports power generation and people in the plant. They rent/buy the building, They pay taxes the sewage and water bills. In Texas they burn tons of excess generation that they pay for and doesn't get scuttled into "reactors" that burn of excess power into heat. During times of high grid demand the idle the machines out. These jobs pay higher than Taco Bell (nothing wrong with that job) so it's not 1 to 1. Besides they are pretty benign neighbors.

All business in one way or another do this. The additional services needed to support it. Using Taco Bell, the truck driver who gets a couple of extra drop offs a week doing the bulk food delivery. The waste oil recycling people. Probably another dozen other things. BUT politicians like to point to direct job creation. The secondary and tertiary numbers are harder to quantify. But saying I helped build this car dealer that will have 8 mechanics, a dozen sales people and all the other support staff is easy to show. AND people understand car dealership or Taco Bell.

It's just the way it is.

https://youtu.be/4cF6D8zDa9U?t=13

-Dave

[kryptqnick]

China is a political rival of the USA, so citing their policies as an example just doesn't sound good from the mouth of the US president. The USA is among the most responsible countries when it comes to climate change, so they do need to work on implementing harsher policies. But I believe in a comprehensive approach, targeting all big consumers of energy that (and this part is very important) comes largely from ecologically harmful sources, instead of fighting the mining industry specifically. It would be both more fair and more effective.

[NotATether]

So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?

So this is the kind of bullshit that makes people vote for Trump (a soon-to-be convicted felon) even though he has no place near politics after what he pulled on 2021.

These anti-crypto takes by Biden are stupid. He should know that crypto is a very much booming industry and that it's going to benefit other countries massively if America kicks them all out.

And yet all those people are frothing in the mouth about "blockchain". As if you can have a blockchain without any cryptocurrency in it.

[lionheart78]

He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.

So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.

So Biden had decided to milk the Bitcoin mining Industry in the US while slowly killing the industry due to the imposed yearly increment of tax.  It is not a surprise because we have seen Biden eagerly wanting to regulate the Bitcoin industry and take the opportunity to profit from it.

So let us see if the US Congress will support these regulations suggested by Biden.

These anti-crypto takes by Biden are stupid. He should know that crypto is a very much booming industry and that it's going to benefit other countries massively if America kicks them all out.

This is the reason why Biden wanted to implement taxes to the industry, for the US government to gain huge income from the industry.  Whether it is bullshit or not is subjective.  For the eyes of the non-crypto people, it should be but for the miners, it is somehow suppressive.

[Zlantann]

Such tax rate will effectively destroy the entire US crypto mining industry.

Only well managed Bitcoin mining firms will survive this tax increase. It is just a conscious attempt to choke the American mining industry and also a means to exploit them. Biden shouldn't use China as an example because the US is more democratic. American legislators are not rubber stamp like their Chinese counterparts. As we have seen senators like Senator Cynthia Lummis, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr have already began to oppose the proposal.

So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?

Do you think Donald Trump will be more friendly to Bitcoin miners? He has never been a fan of Bitcoin and might also consider the same policy if elected. Choosing between Biden and Trump is like the devil and the Deep Blue Sea. However Trump is an unapologetic racist and I don't like home for that, hence Biden will have my vote.

[NotATether]

These anti-crypto takes by Biden are stupid. He should know that crypto is a very much booming industry and that it's going to benefit other countries massively if America kicks them all out.

This is the reason why Biden wanted to implement taxes to the industry, for the US government to gain huge income from the industry.  Whether it is bullshit or not is subjective.  For the eyes of the non-crypto people, it should be but for the miners, it is somehow suppressive.

Most large american miners are running as corporations now, so this is essentially a double tax. Capital gains + the usual business income tax.

And I don't know how the feds think they are going to extract a lot of money from the smaller hobbyist miners and the small farms, especially after the halving made them way less profitable. It's probably no bigger than $10-$100 million/year in the US that these small miners are making in total.

[ALLON2017]

What if they rig the election again and gets in again. They couldn’t completely ban it

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?

Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.

Vote republican, that's all I have to say.  Biden will be lucky if he doesn't die in office this term because of his age; imagine if he ran for re-election?  He's just a puppet, and there are some seriously nasty people who've got their hands up his ass as far as crypto is concerned.  Either way, republicans are generally for less government and are pro-business so that's the way I've always voted.  Except for Trump that is, and his presidency didn't turn out to be the nuclear war armageddon that I thought would be the case.

[legiteum]

Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?

Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.

Vote republican, that's all I have to say.  Biden will be lucky if he doesn't die in office this term because of his age; imagine if he ran for re-election?  He's just a puppet, and there are some seriously nasty people who've got their hands up his ass as far as crypto is concerned.  Either way, republicans are generally for less government and are pro-business so that's the way I've always voted.  Except for Trump that is, and his presidency didn't turn out to be the nuclear war armageddon that I thought would be the case.

Bitcoin went up 500% under Biden. Vote Democrat.

[stompix]

Oh god, this again!

It's not tax on mining, it's a tax on electricity used, it's 10% on what you pay for electricity!
Riot is paying between 2.5 cents and 4  cents per kwh depending on their location, this tax will be added next year to rise the price to 2.75 cents per kwh to 4.4 cents/kwh.
The halving has split the revenue in half, even a 100% tax on electricity wouldn't be as bad as the current drop in revenue!

How about all of you get honest and when you look at your electricity bill with 13cents/kwh or 40 cents per kWh, do you keep saying that miners should only pay 3 cents per kwh?
I had to quit mining because of high traffic and if it weren't for bulk electricity plan I wouldn't be able to mine profitably even with the near last generation, but some of you think that an increase of a quarter of a cent per kWh would bankrupt an industry!

[STSMiner]

Thank you to all that have posted a reply here, glad to see some of you have "criticized" me on my first post of this thread, you did what I wanted, you voiced your opinion without causing a fight here, I congratulate you all in that respect.

It's been an interesting read with all that's been said and posted here, insightful to say the least !

As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got ....  right ?

Once again, thanks !

[paxmao]

He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.

So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.

Yep, the "asset industry" is not at all the mining industry. It is being, as usual, made into a partisan thing and all that crap. My guess is that the news might lower the price of electricity by less than 1% if any??

I think it is contrary to a good practice to selectively tax a certain use of energy - like for example taxing selectively the land for cattle (cows) because these are harmful for the environment (should I say to a greater extent than bitcoin?) or you could tax the energy used in producing diesel or gasoline cars for the same reason...but my favourite would be to tax the energy consumption of VISA and Mastercard, including the one used to take the employees to the office, etc...

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61364#:~:text=The%20CBECI%20estimates%20that%20global,to%20have%20been%2027%2C400%20TWh.

The CBECI estimates that global electricity usage associated with Bitcoin mining ranged from 67 TWh to 240 TWh in 2023, with a point estimate of 120 TWh. The International Energy Agency estimated global consumption of electricity during 2023 to have been 27,400 TWh.10 So, the CBECI estimates put electricity supporting Bitcoin mining in 2023 at about 0.2% to 0.9% of global demand for electricity

0.2% is quite a bit of energy to be honest.

[kentrolla]

This old fella has already screwed up everything and as per my understanding he is trying to kill the mining industry without actually killing it that's my implementing high taxes for mining to an extend that mining wouldn't be profitable after the taxes which will push users to stop mining. We cannot expect any positive news from them but atleast they should be neutral rather than targeting the mining and crypto ecosystem.

[Stepstowealth]

Now, before I get into deep water with any moderators here, this topic is not here to start a fight, so please keep it on topic.

Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.

This story got posted today....

https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry

So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?

I think many people in USA will have an alternative in the person of Trump, because he has made promises concerning cryptocurrencies and although it is a political plot, he mentioned his support for the crypto community.

Also, there was a time I read about some mining companies in the U.S moving their old mining machines to Colorado springs for refurbishment, and possible resale to investors and miners willing to own these machines and operate them in more economic friendly regions with cheaper electricity tarrifs and data consumption cost. Infact the goal was just to move to areas where it would be cheaper to manage a mining farm.

Whatever Biden is doing is only a bump in the road because the American community already regulates Crypto currency and if they decide to tax it at 30%, then there might be an issue of massive relocation from the country and a drop in the macro economy, since many companies accept it already and would find it hard to stop using it because of taxes.

[NotATether]

As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got ....  right ?

It is Adolf Hitler vs Darth Vader for president.... again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFA-rOls8YA

[Fantazy999]

Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?

Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.

They know everything and do everything!! it's all fiction!! They just make up news, adjust the news to fit the schedules! I'm speculating! They know everything, but they piss in people’s ears! The graphic always goes and draws the algorithm! you can’t stop it, it’s the same as in the stock market.. It’s just that in the stock market, the cycle goes on for decades, but on Bitcoin it’s only 3 years +-.