Does a permissionless bitcoin multisig exist?

[iheartBTC]

Hi everyone - long time BTC hodler, first time poster.

I want a permissionless, multi-chain, multi-sig wallet but can't seem to find one anywhere even after scrolling through dozens of threads here on bitcointalk. Does this exist?
- Must be permissionless because I don't want a government or company to deny my access / de-platform me
- Must be multi-chain because I believe in smart contract platforms, like ETH, and hold some of those tokens
- Must be multi-signature because I don't want to take any chances with the loss or theft of a hardware wallet / seed phrase, want to play around with giving my family members spending allowances, and will need permissionless inheritance

There are wallets that can get two of the three requirements, but not all three.

Thanks!

[1715004266]

1715004266

[Charles-Tim]

You may not get any wallet that is multichain and having bitcoin multisig, but you can get multisig that has the features. You can go for Electrum or Sparrow wallet multisig.

I will advice you to deal with bitcoin separately from altcoins.

[Mia Chloe]

There are plenty of open source non custodial wallets out there that also have a multi sig function. The best I can recommend is Electrum as it is also very easy to make use of in addition to the fact that it is also open source. Op I think you are probably mistaking an exchange multisig wallet for a custodian wallet. Also op it is important to understand that although Bitcoin is decentralized, centralized exchanges can also offer crypto services including Bitcoin.

As for the multi sig wallet you can easily download electrum and set up one without any governmental restrictions. As for altcoins I don't know of any wallet that supports multisig for altcoins and is also open source. In fact I have come to notice that a majority of altcoin supporting wallets are not open source.

[promise444c5]

Hi everyone - long time BTC hodler, first time poster.

I ~

Well maybe we should start from permissionless, I don't  really know what you mean by the permissionless?? What kind of wallet were you using for your holding...

You said you don't  want a government or company to deny your access ,
If so then you are definitely  using a custodial wallet which needs permission  from third party to make your transaction (this is how I understand  you word "permissionless " correct me if I'm  wrong ")

If you need a multisig wallet then I only know of BTC-only wallet ( Electrum  and Sparrow) you could create multiple cosigner  probably two and you can make the two accessible  to you which means for every  transaction  make  you need to sign it in two places .
 
You need to understand  that Electrum and Sparrow are noncustodial  Btc-only wallet , which means you have full control over your wallet to the extent of determining  the kind of fee you want for your txn,
What do I mean by BTC-only wallet: you can not store any tokens along with your BTC

[iheartBTC]

Well maybe we should start from permissionless, I don't  really know what you mean by the permissionless??

By permissionless, I mean non-custodial/self-sovereign/nobody can deny my access. I see centralized companies use the word "non-custodial" but I KNOW they can one day decide to shut down my access if they wanted to even if they didn't "technically" control my private key.

Op I think you are probably mistaking an exchange multisig wallet for a custodian wallet. Also op it is important to understand that although Bitcoin is decentralized, centralized exchanges can also offer crypto services including Bitcoin.

What is an "exchange multisig" and what is a "custodian wallet"? I don't trust any centralized exchanges to hold my crypto.

You may not get any wallet that is multichain and having bitcoin multisig, but you can get multisig that has the features. You can go for Electrum or Sparrow wallet multisig.

I will advice you to deal with bitcoin separately from altcoins.

Is it true that I need to remember the order of signers for Electrum and Sparrow, and that I need all signers to approve the transaction (as opposed to m of n configuration)?

I guess what I'm looking for is a smart contract wallet like Safe (https://safe.global) but can also store Bitcoin.

[Charles-Tim]

What is an "exchange multisig" and what is a "custodian wallet"? I don't trust any centralized exchanges to hold my crypto.

I think he is referring to custodial wallet. Wallets that you have your private key and the full control.

Is it true that I need to remember the order of signers for Electrum and Sparrow, and that I need all signers to approve the transaction (as opposed to m of n configuration)?

It is not opposed to m-of-n but in support. You will need your private key or seed phrase and the cosigner public keys to set up the wallet. The cosigners will need their own private key or seed phrase and your public key and other cosigner public key to set up their own wallet.

Example is 2-of-3 multisig. It means 3 public keys are needed to set up the wallet. Your private key will generate your own public key for you and you will need 2 the other two cosigners public keys as they will need yours two set up the wallet. The 2 there means 2 out of the 3 cosigners signature are needed for making transaction.

[iheartBTC]

What is an "exchange multisig" and what is a "custodian wallet"? I don't trust any centralized exchanges to hold my crypto.

I think he is referring to custodial wallet. Wallets that you have your private key and the full control.

Understood, thank you. Yes, I would like to have full control.

Example is 2-of-3 multisig. It means 3 public keys are needed to set up the wallet. Your private key will generate your own public key for you and you will need 2 the other two cosigners public keys as they will need yours two set up the wallet. The 2 there means 2 out of the 3 cosigners signature are needed for making transaction.

Ok so there are 3 people, me, my friend A, and my friend B. Are you saying I could set up the BTC multisig such that A and B can approve transactions without me? I would like that option. Is it also true that if the public keys are initially set up for the multisig as [me,A,B] that each of A and B will need to input public keys in that order to successfully initiate the multisig on their end?

Ultimately, this is still only for Bitcoin. I'd like to also store altcoins.

[promise444c5]

By permissionless, I mean non-custodial/self-sovereign/nobody can deny my access. I see centralized companies use the word "non-custodial" but I KNOW they can one day decide to shut down my access if they wanted to even if they didn't "technically" control my private key.

I guess I was right afterall....check  my quote

You said you don't  want a government or company to deny your access ,
If so then you are definitely  using a custodial wallet which needs permission  from third party to make your transaction (this is how I understand  you word "permissionless " correct me if I'm  wrong ")

For this

what is a "custodian wallet"?

Custodian => Custodial
You check the link to understand
https://www.coindesk.com/learn/custodial-wallets-vs-non-custodial-crypto-wallets/

Incase you later feel like settling  for  a noncustodial  wallet then you should understand  how the transaction  and fees works
Check
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5320216.msg56441031#msg56441031

[BitMaxz]

0
Understood, thank you. Yes, I would like to have full control.

Non-custodial should be one of the wallets you looking for.  You can use Electrum for BTC if you want full control, it also have a multisig function and for other coins and tokens I think hardware wallet is the best option than using other wallet you don't need to worry about using hardware wallets even if they are not operating or they closed their business just make sure choose a hardware wallet that generates a seed phrase backup because that's the only backup you need to recover your wallet to other wallets in case the hardware wallet is no longer working.

If you are interested to hardware wallet then check this link below.
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0

And take note of the multi-sig wallet it is not good to use on a daily basis because of the transaction fee.

[Charles-Tim]

Ok so there are 3 people, me, my friend A, and my friend B. Are you saying I could set up the BTC multisig such that A and B can approve transactions without me?

If it is 2-of-3. Yes. Two people among you three can make transaction on the wallet.

Is it also true that if the public keys are initially set up for the multisig as [me,A,B] that each of A and B will need to input public keys in that order to successfully initiate the multisig on their end?

To initiate a transaction? If the wallet has already been set up, the multisig wallet has the 3 (you, A, B) public keys already. But just need any 2 signatures among you for transaction.

[nakamura12]

For btc, I recommend you to use electrum which supports what you are looking for like 2-3 multi-sig wallet and it's also non-custodial which means you are the only one who has access of the wallet as long as you still have the seed phrase or private key if it's different wallet provider. For ethereum, you should use myetherwallet but make sure it's from the correct site and be wary of fake websites. It supports different erc-20 tokens and if you want something from binance smart contract is you could also use the same private key or seed phrase to import the same wallet but in different network because I actually tried it myself. I wouldn't recommend that you use trustwallet, although it supports different crypto and also non-custodial but it is not open source wallet. If you are not aware about the differences between open-source and close-source wallets then you should learn about it.

[iheartBTC]

I guess I was right afterall....check  my quote

You said you don't  want a government or company to deny your access ,
If so then you are definitely  using a custodial wallet which needs permission  from third party to make your transaction (this is how I understand  you word "permissionless " correct me if I'm  wrong ")

I think we had some miscommunication. I use Ledger and Trezor wallets, which I believe you'd agree are permissionless/non-custodial. The problem is they're not multi-sig wallets, they're single-sig. I want 2 of my 3 hardware wallets to approve any transaction for any asset on any network.

Ok so there are 3 people, me, my friend A, and my friend B. Are you saying I could set up the BTC multisig such that A and B can approve transactions without me?

If it is 2-of-3. Yes. Two people among you three can make transaction on the wallet.

Thank you

0
Understood, thank you. Yes, I would like to have full control.

Non-custodial should be one of the wallets you looking for.  You can use Electrum for BTC if you want full control, it also have a multisig function and for other coins and tokens I think hardware wallet is the best option than using other wallet you don't need to worry about using hardware wallets even if they are not operating or they closed their business just make sure choose a hardware wallet that generates a seed phrase backup because that's the only backup you need to recover your wallet to other wallets in case the hardware wallet is no longer working.

If you are interested to hardware wallet then check this link below.
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0

And take note of the multi-sig wallet it is not good to use on a daily basis because of the transaction fee.

I want 2 of my 3 hardware wallets to approve any transaction for any asset on any network, including Bitcoin. Do you know of such a product?

[promise444c5]

~

Alright no problem  although  I also made mention of the multisig but you could just stick with @Charles-Tim  posts and guide

[BitMaxz]

I want 2 of my 3 hardware wallets to approve any transaction for any asset on any network, including Bitcoin. Do you know of such a product?

For other assets I don't think you can do that in trezor only 4 thirdparty wallets are supported check the link below

- https://trezor.io/learn/a/third-party-apps-and-trezor

Exodus have multiple coins and token supported but it does not have multisig feature but Electrum it does but it only support Bitcoin.

For Electrum multisig guide trezor already have a video guide about this check the link below.

- https://trezor.io/learn/a/what-is-multisig

So you don't have any choice but to use multisig only for Bitcoin and use single key for other coins.

[tbct_mt2]

I want a permissionless, multi-chain, multi-sig wallet but can't seem to find one anywhere even after scrolling through dozens of threads here on bitcointalk. Does this exist?
- Must be permissionless because I don't want a government or company to deny my access / de-platform me
- Must be multi-chain because I believe in smart contract platforms, like ETH, and hold some of those tokens
- Must be multi-signature because I don't want to take any chances with the loss or theft of a hardware wallet / seed phrase, want to play around with giving my family members spending allowances, and will need permissionless inheritance

Bitcoin blockchain is unique and if you like Bitcoin, use it with Bitcoin blockchain and don't look for multi-chain solutions. Bridges between chains are vulnerable to hacks and you can lose your bitcoin.

With Bitcoin, if you use a non custodial, open source wallet, have private key, its back up, you can control your bitcoins and transactions. It's not permissionless because you are responsible to hold, broadcast your transactions that will be confirmed by Bitcoin miners. You won't depend on governments, central banks and they can not freeze your bitcoins.

You can have multi-sig wallet but you will have to spend more for transaction fee.

Creating a multisig wallet with Electrum.

[iheartBTC]

Thanks for the help, everyone!

To summarize: There are Bitcoin multi-sig wallets but they do not support any altcoins.

I will keep looking for a multi-chain multi-sig.