Industrial Scale Natural Gas Mining

[BlazinaBits]

Hey there,

Ive heard of these setups in North Dakota and Alberta, Canada where a mining farm will be built to run off of excess natural gas on a well-site.

Is there anyone here who owns one or has operated or built one? I am mostly curious about how different setups have done power distribution and all the electrical components from a gas generator.

As far as I see it you would need a big transformer to get the higher generator voltages down, then a large breaker panel to supply PDU's, or your own sub panels.

Id love to hear about this from someone who has done it before.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Generators directly produce whatever voltage you need be it 240 or 480V. Yes you need distribution subpanels w/breakers same as you do with any power source. It's rather simple and straightforward.

[BlazinaBits]

Specifically, if you bought a 480v gen, you would buy a transformer? maybe go to 415Y/240 and balance the load onto 240V?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

No. I'd buy a generator that produces the voltage I need. Generators are not only available in a wide range of output voltages but also usually have several 'tap' settings that allow you to change the voltage about +/-20%.

[spectre71]

Even using stranded and or flare gas would have to be at a very large scale to be economically feasible.

Now you have to maintain a power plant as well most likely in a remote area. Where I live I can buy electricity off the pole 1 megawatt for an hour is about $43 bucks. I believe you would need to start around the 100mw install to even to get in the black within years even with "free" fuel.

[BlazinaBits]

Thats interesting, the analysis that I have done for it is still profitable. Even taking maintenance on the generator into consideration.

Can you go deeper into why you do not think its profitable anymore?

[spectre71]

Thats interesting, the analysis that I have done for it is still profitable. Even taking maintenance on the generator into consideration.

Can you go deeper into why you do not think its profitable anymore?

At what scale in megawatts did you achieve a profitability? ROI time frame? What is your real world calculated cost per kwh?  This would be a considerable size installation to even make payroll.

The price of a new 40Mw gas turbine is about 31 million, a used one about 6 mil probably another 6 to replace parts. Install cost, switch gear and transformers. Going to need gas compressors / turbines seperators and filters. Even if you get the gas for free the land won't be. Don't forget all the EPA fun.   Figure a mil or so for a cat genney to cold start the plant.

That cheap Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas power starts looking mighty tasty about now.

I would put my money in some Fidelity mining funds and enjoy the dancing girls in Vegas for my thrill of losing money without the hassle.  

I see zero ROI and a pain in the ass.

[FP91G]

I saw several websites of Russian manufacturers, and on their website they had a calculator with the cost of electricity. To do this, you need to write down the cost of gas. In all cases, with paid gas, this was unprofitable. Typically, such generators are used in hard-to-reach places where there are no wires, for backup purposes, or where gas is practically free.

[BlazinaBits]

I did an analysis for a small 250kw unit, price of generator at $70,000 CAD ($50,000 USD) with an average price of gas at roughly $2750 CAD/Month ($2000 USD) with that generators gas consumption, 85% up time, and thats at 65% of the 5-year average nataural gas price.

[spectre71]

I did an analysis for a small 250kw unit, price of generator at $70,000 CAD ($50,000 USD) with an average price of gas at roughly $2750 CAD/Month ($2000 USD) with that generators gas consumption, 85% up time, and thats at 65% of the 5-year average nataural gas price.

That's backyard scale, 250kw install won't make shit or worth your time. You can only really run them at 80% load so that 200kw usable.

Want it to be a hobby go for it. It's not a business model, sorry

Who is going to do the dailies on the gen, oil and filter changes? Who is going to change out the sleeves, pistons and bearings? It takes a lot of money to keep those running.

[FP91G]

I did an analysis for a small 250kw unit, price of generator at $70,000 CAD ($50,000 USD) with an average price of gas at roughly $2750 CAD/Month ($2000 USD) with that generators gas consumption, 85% up time, and thats at 65% of the 5-year average nataural gas price.

What is the lifetime of this gas generator?
You need to calculate the cost of the generated electricity and add the cost of the gas generator and the cost of maintenance to this price, provided that you want to recover your investment in 5 years.
In Russia I pay for gas 4.5 cents per cubic metre and according to my calculations gas generator is not profitable because of expensive maintenance and I will need a lot of permits to install such a generator. But then I will have a commercial gas tariff, which will be at least 10 cents.

[philipma1957]

I did an analysis for a small 250kw unit, price of generator at $70,000 CAD ($50,000 USD) with an average price of gas at roughly $2750 CAD/Month ($2000 USD) with that generators gas consumption, 85% up time, and thats at 65% of the 5-year average nataural gas price.

That's backyard scale, 250kw install won't make shit or worth your time. You can only really run them at 80% load so that 200kw usable.

Want it to be a hobby go for it. It's not a business model, sorry

Who is going to do the dailies on the gen, oil and filter changes? Who is going to change out the sleeves, pistons and bearings? It takes a lot of money to keep those running.

having just ended a 210-230kwatt mine it is too small unless it is a one man show.

If you are running 60 x 190th t21s you have 11400th or about 570 a day.

So lets pretend your access to the gas is “free”

But you need a box. 35-40k
you need shelter for the generator and box  25k
as you said 70k for the transformer

and 60 miners are about 215k

add that up 350k if you make 570 a day it is just under 2 years to break even.

that assumes 100% up time and nothing breaks for two years.

it also assumes earnings stay at 5cents a th.


having worked on mines for years I can tell you I would not want the extra work of keeping the genney running..

this may be good enoguh to protect the mining box and the generator

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115274046645?

[FP91G]

I began to realize why my country burns a lot of associated gas in oil fields. I think that on free gas mining will be profitable, but there is a problem with the laws in Russia. If an oil company sells electricity, it will take a long time to get the necessary licenses. If you install this generator for your own purposes, you also need permission from controlling organizations, but it is easier.
I mean, there are many places in Russia where you can get gas almost for free, but I haven't heard of it being used for mining. The reason is cheap electricity.

[philipma1957]

I began to realize why my country burns a lot of associated gas in oil fields. I think that on free gas mining will be profitable, but there is a problem with the laws in Russia. If an oil company sells electricity, it will take a long time to get the necessary licenses. If you install this generator for your own purposes, you also need permission from controlling organizations, but it is easier.
I mean, there are many places in Russia where you can get gas almost for free, but I haven't heard of it being used for mining. The reason is cheap electricity.

the generators need a lot of maintenance. 1 in 5 days shut down and check it change oil etc is not uncommon.  ie 100 hour run time then maintenance check.

very labor intensive. I set a guy up years ago in Pennsylvania he had a 60 to 75k generator did it in 2014. I wonder how he made out.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

the generators need a lot of maintenance. 1 in 5 days shut down and check it change oil etc is not uncommon.  ie 100 hour run time then maintenance check.

That only applies to standby rated generators.

Gensets rated for Prime power, due to them having oil & cooling systems with large reserve tanks and filters that can be changed w/o shutting down have maintenance intervals ranging from several months up to 1 year depending on the make/model. But ja, there is still a required service interval requiring a short shutdown to check the mechanicals.