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Author Topic: Wallets supporting Silent Payments  (Read 520 times)
BlackHatCoiner
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June 08, 2024, 11:09:14 AM
 #21

When the recipient provides a silent payment address to the sender, does the sender actually combine some keys and will this key result in a public address of the recipient's wallet that only he (the recipient) knows?
Yes. As shown above, the sender uses the key pair of one of his inputs (r for private key, R for public key). He then creates another key pair, hash(r*A) as private key and hash(r*A)*G as the public key. Then, he adds hash(r*A)*G to public key B, which is the key the recipient uses to spend the bitcoin.

The resulting public key is hash(r*A)*G + B. The private key of this public key is hash(r*A) + b, which is unknown for the sender (as he does not know b), but known by the recipient, because r*A = r*a*G = r*G*a = a*R. The recipient knows a, R, b. Therefore, they can spend from the receiving address.

Is there a discussion about Silent Payments going around on the Forum?  I just found out about it, am very curious to learn more but I do not think I understand how it works yet.
Which part is more difficult to understand?

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LoyceV
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June 10, 2024, 08:35:20 AM
Merited by PrivacyG (2)
 #22

Isn't a web wallet the opposite of what you'd want for Silent Payments? It's convenient, because you don't have to process all blocks, but your privacy depends on a third party.

Is there a discussion about Silent Payments going around on the Forum?  I just found out about it, am very curious to learn more but I do not think I understand how it works yet.
See witcher_sense's topic: Silent payments.

dkbit98 (OP)
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June 12, 2024, 05:48:39 PM
 #23

Isn't a web wallet the opposite of what you'd want for Silent Payments? It's convenient, because you don't have to process all blocks, but your privacy depends on a third party.
You can use Silentium with tor browser to hide your IP address, and I think you can generate seed words offline.
I am not supporting any wallets in this list, and Silentium is more experimental proof of concept wallet to test how Silent Payments work, so it should not be used with larger amount of coins.
There are some reports from users with coins getting stuck using Silentium because of sync issues, so I don't recommend it for anything serious.
Cake wallet works much better but note that Silent Payments is still in beta phase.

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LoyceV
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June 14, 2024, 07:00:42 AM
 #24

You can use Silentium with tor browser to hide your IP address, and I think you can generate seed words offline.
They won't know who you are, but wouldn't they still be able to link all Silent Payments together? Say you post your SP-address here, and receive 2 donations. You'll receive both of them on a different Bitcoin address. But Silentium will know they belong together, right?
I won't claim to fully understand how Silend Payments work, but as far as I know, running a full node is the only way to make sure nobody else knows which transactions belong to the same SP-address.

Quote
Cake wallet works much better but note that Silent Payments is still in beta phase.
I've never used it, and just checked: it's a phone app. I assume the server will handle the details on the Silent Payment, right? So it still defeats the purpose of "keeping it silent".

dkbit98 (OP)
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June 14, 2024, 07:49:00 AM
 #25

They won't know who you are, but wouldn't they still be able to link all Silent Payments together? Say you post your SP-address here, and receive 2 donations. You'll receive both of them on a different Bitcoin address. But Silentium will know they belong together, right?
No they won't.
Only sender and receiver know addresses and amounts that are send, but it's obviously always better to run a full node.
Someone could potentially suspect that your addresses are used if you consolidate exact amounts later into one address.



Easy to add node in Cake wallet settings.

I've never used it, and just checked: it's a phone app. I assume the server will handle the details on the Silent Payment, right? So it still defeats the purpose of "keeping it silent".
There is also Cake wallet for desktop, Linux, Mac and wind0ws.

More about silent payments:
https://silentpayments.xyz/

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Pmalek
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June 26, 2024, 06:45:52 PM
Merited by dkbit98 (1)
 #26

The latest 6.6.7 version of Blue Wallet now has support for silent payments. At the moment, you can only use Blue Wallet to send to silent payment addresses. The release notes don't mention that you can use the app to create a silent payment address. I am running the latest version on my phone and I tried to create a new wallet, but I couldn't find silent payments among the options.

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BlackHatCoiner
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June 26, 2024, 08:04:07 PM
 #27

It'll take a while to spread on the reputable wallet software. I'm skeptical about Electrum, because their priority is to be lightweight, and silent payments move the burden to the user, but at least it's optional. You could argue the same about lightning, and they've written an entire lightning network implementation.

Let's see. Electrum and Sparrow are the ones that will activate the network effect.

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LoyceV
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June 27, 2024, 02:05:23 PM
 #28

They won't know who you are, but wouldn't they still be able to link all Silent Payments together? Say you post your SP-address here, and receive 2 donations. You'll receive both of them on a different Bitcoin address. But Silentium will know they belong together, right?
No they won't.
Only sender and receiver know addresses and amounts that are send
How? From what I understand about Silent Payments, you'll need to check all blocks to see which payments belong to you. If you use a light (or web) wallet, how can your wallet know this without a central server also knowing it?

I'm skeptical about Electrum, because their priority is to be lightweight, and silent payments move the burden to the user
That's what I mean: I don't see how this can work without the server knowing the details and without the user downloading all (new) blocks?

BlackHatCoiner
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June 27, 2024, 02:18:40 PM
Merited by LoyceV (6), Pmalek (2)
 #29

How? From what I understand about Silent Payments, you'll need to check all blocks to see which payments belong to you. If you use a light (or web) wallet, how can your wallet know this without a central server also knowing it?
Think of it like Monero: when you request blocks from a FeatherWallet server, the server does not know which coins are yours. You're just downloading blocks, checking if any of the transactions are yours, and if not, discarding. The server does not know which transactions you keep.

That's what I mean: I don't see how this can work without the server knowing the details and without the user downloading all (new) blocks?
In the case with silent payments, it can be implemented more efficiently than in Feather: Request from the server to send you only transactions that contain a Taproot ouput, occurred after the last time you opened your wallet, and haven't yet been spent. That will exclude a lot of unnecessary information.

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LoyceV
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June 27, 2024, 04:38:16 PM
 #30

In the case with silent payments, it can be implemented more efficiently than in Feather: Request from the server to send you only transactions that contain a Taproot ouput, occurred after the last time you opened your wallet, and haven't yet been spent. That will exclude a lot of unnecessary information.
Thanks, this makes sense. It's quite genius!

dkbit98 (OP)
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June 28, 2024, 02:09:22 PM
 #31

The latest 6.6.7 version of Blue Wallet now has support for silent payments. At the moment, you can only use Blue Wallet to send to silent payment addresses. The release notes don't mention that you can use the app to create a silent payment address. I am running the latest version on my phone and I tried to create a new wallet, but I couldn't find silent payments among the options.
Thanks for reporting.
I added Blue Wallet to the list of wallets that (partially) support Silent Payments.
More wallets will eventually add Silent Payments when they become more stable.

Latest blog article explaining how Silent Payments work:
https://medium.com/@ottosch/how-silent-payments-work-41bea907d6b0

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