Say no to maximalism

[NotATether]

The Ethereum upgrade formerly known as ETH 2.0 was supposed to make it better, but it massively increased Ethereum's centralization and therefore weakened it. The token burning was supposed to be a gimmick to get people to think it had a pseudo cap to its supply but since all the people still messing around with crypto apps just do stuff on ETH's second layers now there isn't even enough burning going on to balance out the issuance. For a while people thought staking might turn Ethereum into a dividend-like investment for the investment class, with people thinking it'd have 6% earnings or even some crazy predictions of 10% or 12% earnings, and that all fizzled and earnings are like 3% at best, and the recent ETFs don't even allow staking so the class of investor that may have been still somewhat interested in what would be somewhat decent stock earnings at 3%, can't even use ETH as an income generating asset, so the ETH ETFs have very little interest.

ETH 2.0 made all Ethereum transactions weaker.

There is now a non-zero chance that when you make an ETH transaction, the entire value and destination will be replaced by a fraudulent MEV-bot. People have lost significant amounts of money that way.

The PoW-version of ETH was never vulnerable to this. It is a design in the staking system.

I don't think I can trust ETH for large transactions again.

[Sipurba]

I am not sure whether your definition is exactly right, tho I understand your point of view and agree on that one.

But, those we so called maximalists especially who try to influence people into buying Bitcoin is good to keep the enthusiasm in cryptospace, so people will always talk about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency everywhere. Since most people knows only Bitcoin, even old people who don't really understand how it works. It is good to maintain the hype for crypto investors

[Dailyscript]

After reading through I heard you say Bitcoin is not inherently superior to other altcoins but i disagree with you there. Bitcoin is super superior to any cryptocurrency you would mention. Have you ever wondered why the government and other Anti-Bitcoin organizations prefer to attack Bitcoin and why they try to crash the value? The network is one of the fastest-growing networks on earth and has gained significant value over time. People can easily afford other altcoins but Bitcoin's value made it limited and of high purchase.

At the end of the day, it's not about superiority or thriving but about fulfilling the mission that was initiated in the beginning. It is the most effective digital monetary system and no other altcoins come close.

[d5000]

This is exactly why people are maximalists. Because when you aren't you make mistakes like this - trying to claim that any old random cryptocurrency that nobody cares about or uses and is inherently terribly weak compared to Bitcoin, is actually better than Bitcoin simply because it's cheap...because nobody uses it.

Agree with this argument in general.

However, we still unfortunately don't have L2s which work as easy and well as LTC and Doge for example. Lightning is still very complex if you use it without a centralized service provider, and also has properties not everybody likes (having to be online 24/7 to receive payments, mainly). And sidechains after 10 years (I think the concept was proposed in 2014) are still in its infancy and only some very recent designs may be interesting - Liquid is not - and all have centralized elements still afaik. Statechains are not completely trustless, Ark could be better but I have to examine it further.

Crypto has led to interesting experiments and ideas, but in the end the world doesn't need other cryptocurrencies. The few interesting ideas that have come out of the crypto world should just be built into the Bitcoin ecosystem. The weakness in Crypto is that there ARE different ones, when we only need Bitcoin.

The weakness of this argument is that it tries to define what "the world" needs

It's actually the users (including "investors") who define what is what the "world" needs. And there is a very simple argument for altcoins: If one of the main reason people use cryptocurrencies is saving ("store of value"), which depends on its perceived potential to grow in value/price, then there always will be incentives to invest in cryptocurrencies with a smaller market cap because their potential to grow may be bigger than Bitcoin's. The risk profile is different, but there will always people that will prefer more risk, even if many of them fail. While BTC was one of the few cryptos which reached an ATH this year, we can't rule out that ETH, XMR, LTC or Doge could reach a new ATH in the next months, as altcoins tend to explosive growth and of course also destructive crashes.

In addition, there's the argument that altcoins could work as a "backup" of Bitcoin. I'll try to explain it a bit further: Imagine Bitcoin has a bug like in 2010 when the chain split because more coins than the 21 million limit were generated (we were close to this some years ago!). Or a successful 51% attack by a state-level actor or a very big coalition of shorters.

Imagine now this "doomsday scenario" in two variants: Scenario 1 is that Bitcoin ist the only relevant cryptocurrency, and Scenario 2 that there are several other cryptos, including decentralized ones.

In scenario 1 the whole cryptocurrency sector would probably see an immense crash, with bankruptcies, broke investors and all the drama. Confidence in the concept "cryptocurrency" would be seriously harmed.

In scenario 2 we will definitely also see a crash because Bitcoin still leads the market, but the other chains could hold their value more or less as they wouldn't be affected by the vulnerability. A working, decentralized altcoin could even work temporarily as a Bitcoin sidechain, leading to a faster recovery of Bitcoin once the flaw is fixed. The "cryptocurrency" concept would be less harmed.

I also don't think that altcoins are in any way "harmful" for Bitcoin. Fraudulent crowdfunding (like in the ICO wave or 2017/18) could also have taken place on the Bitcoin chain with mechanisms like Omni . It's perhaps even better that Bitcoin was largely unaffected by this

Nevertheless, thanks for the maximalist post, it's always good to read different opinions.

[Synchronice]

Maximalism is the mindset that your project is the only valid one. This approach leads to a refusal to consider new information. It is dogmatic and somewhat intellectually limiting, in my opinion. And I have encountered it several times in this forum.

Bitcoin maximalists tend to dismiss the perspectives of those outside Bitcoin. While I respect the economic tenets of Bitcoin, such as digital scarcity, the superiority complex should not overshadow technical discussions. Bitcoin is not inherently superior to other cryptocurrencies like Monero or Litecoin; it simply has its own trade-offs.

However, there's more to consider. Bitcoin embodies the free-market ideals envisioned by Austrian economists, who would likely support a market of competing currencies. To me, that means Bitcoin embraces this variety of cryptocurrencies. Being a Bitcoin maximalist is actually contrary to the spirit of Bitcoin, because it involves unwavering support for Bitcoin, when you should be skeptical and rigorous in examining its potential weaknesses. We move forward in life by addressing our flaws, not by celebrating our achievements.

From my experience on this forum, many people who are Bitcoin maximalists, actually just post whatever it is easy for them to post and in reality they have no idea what they are talking about. Too many people post here that Bitcoin will end poverty in poor countries Does that really make sense? If I sit in my warm sofa, if you sit and we only buy Bitcoins, how the hell will our life improve? We have to get up and start working to improve our life, Bitcoin is an empty coin if everyone lays in a warm sofa.

As Charles Darwin said,

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

That is so true... I understood that deep truth of that quote recently as I see how life is changing and moving around me. I know people who 24/7 to live on paycheck to paycheck, I know people who study a lot in the universities, take antidepressants because of their boring life and they don't exceed an average monthly wage but on the other hand, there are some low IQ people who earn millions of dollars by streaming video games, doing OF and so on. People still go to the university, get an MBA and then work in MacDonalds. These people failed because they didn't adapt.

[legiteum]

From my experience on this forum, many people who are Bitcoin maximalists, actually just post whatever it is easy for them to post and in reality they have no idea what they are talking about.

Let me edit that for you slightly:

From my experience on this forum any forum on internet, many most people who are Bitcoin maximalists any kind of -ist, actually just post whatever it is easy for them to post and in reality they have no idea what they are talking about.

Welcome to the internet, brother .

[Smartvirus]

Maximalism is the mindset that your project is the only valid one. This approach leads to a refusal to consider new information. It is dogmatic and somewhat intellectually limiting, in my opinion. And I have encountered it several times in this forum.

Bitcoin maximalists tend to dismiss the perspectives of those outside Bitcoin. While I respect the economic tenets of Bitcoin, such as digital scarcity, the superiority complex should not overshadow technical discussions. Bitcoin is not inherently superior to other cryptocurrencies like Monero or Litecoin; it simply has its own trade-offs.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

Am surprised at how you brought whom is considered the father of evolution into this. The bioscience into the science of blockchain technology.
Well, the survival of the fittest theory is a theory of change. As what isn’t susceptible to change breaks. If a metal isn’t mailable, it breaks.

Sometimes, we get too full of ourselves or consider ourselves to be very much saturated with knowledge that we leave no room for learning. The brain is supposed to be open to more information, updating and corrections that need be but, as beings that we are, we let our pride create a barrier in the way of acceptance of that which might be true because, it contradicts what we’ve known for sometime. You learn nothing this way.

[BitGoba]

Maximalism is the mindset that your project is the only valid one. This approach leads to a refusal to consider new information. It is dogmatic and somewhat intellectually limiting, in my opinion. And I have encountered it several times in this forum.

Bitcoin maximalists tend to dismiss the perspectives of those outside Bitcoin. While I respect the economic tenets of Bitcoin, such as digital scarcity, the superiority complex should not overshadow technical discussions. Bitcoin is not inherently superior to other cryptocurrencies like Monero or Litecoin; it simply has its own trade-offs.

However, there's more to consider. Bitcoin embodies the free-market ideals envisioned by Austrian economists, who would likely support a market of competing currencies. To me, that means Bitcoin embraces this variety of cryptocurrencies. Being a Bitcoin maximalist is actually contrary to the spirit of Bitcoin, because it involves unwavering support for Bitcoin, when you should be skeptical and rigorous in examining its potential weaknesses. We move forward in life by addressing our flaws, not by celebrating our achievements. As Charles Darwin said,

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

Don't be myopic and dogmatic. Say no to maximalism.

Everything that isn't Bitcoin is a scam. Everything else is centrally controlled and created to generate quick profits for its creators or early investors at the expense of later investors. They rely on strong marketing filled with lies, deception, and fraud. Bitcoin was initially introduced to a group of free activists, the cypherpunks. It quickly attracted a community of freedom lovers among computer scientists, not like crypto pump-and-dump scammers and venture capitalists.

For over a year, Bitcoin had no established price and was primarily driven by individuals seeking personal sovereignty, not overnight wealth. Bitcoin is impossible to replicate, and it's impossible to create a new Bitcoin. All altcoins are pure scams; stay away from them.

[ancafe]

Maximalism is the mindset that your project is the only valid one. This approach leads to a refusal to consider new information. It is dogmatic and somewhat intellectually limiting, in my opinion. And I have encountered it several times in this forum.

When it comes to bitcoin this mindset does exist because bitcoin is the only project that is the best when compared to other cryptos. In a broad sense I agree that Maximalism is not so relevant because it opposes the attitude or approach to information intellectually and this is my thinking. There is always debate in this space and we will see which side to take but the most important thing is the level of rationality that needs to be demonstrated.

Bitcoin is far superior in many ways and perhaps why people see this as the main goal when wanting to get involved. But in the context of wanting to make a profit sometimes certain coins can also provide a profit as long as they understand how to make that profit.

[betswift]

From my experience on this forum, many people who are Bitcoin maximalists, actually just post whatever it is easy for them to post and in reality they have no idea what they are talking about.

Let me edit that for you slightly:

From my experience on this forum any forum on internet, many most people who are Bitcoin maximalists any kind of -ist, actually just post whatever it is easy for them to post and in reality they have no idea what they are talking about.

Welcome to the internet, brother .

..And enjoy the ride while it lasts For real, though, that was a nice addition.

[Iranus]

From my experience on this forum, many people who are Bitcoin maximalists, actually just post whatever it is easy for them to post and in reality they have no idea what they are talking about. Too many people post here that Bitcoin will end poverty in poor countries Does that really make sense? If I sit in my warm sofa, if you sit and we only buy Bitcoins, how the hell will our life improve? We have to get up and start working to improve our life, Bitcoin is an empty coin if everyone lays in a warm sofa.

There has been a lot of controversy surrounding this issue in the past and recently it has come up for discussion again. I really don't know what those people are thinking when they think bitcoin can alleviate poverty, reduce unemployment or help governments control corruption...Many even believe that bitcoin trading will help many unemployed people earn an income   . To them, Bitcoin is like a panacea, it can solve all the world's problems just by using Bitcoin.

You may be right, they may not even know what they are talking about, they just insist that bitcoin can help alleviate poverty but cannot give a reasonable explanation. But not all bitcoin maximalists have such a mindset, there are many who are very realistic but they stick to bitcoin only and say no to any altcoins.

[KiaKia]

My question is why now? This is a point that I have been trying to proof for ages, but I wonder why this topic is getting attention right now.

Anyways, right from day 1 I am never a fan of Bitcoin maxis because everything else seem wrong in their eyes, I remember in 2020 how many Bitcoin maxis are talking shit about Shiba inu and Axie infinite, but in 2021 these projects created new millionaires, I bet they hated that this happened, I am water I don't have enemies in this space, I am open to every possibility.

I like Bitcoin as much as I like other coins, hate like you want but I am still going to look elsewhere, because I am an opportunist, I have make more gains from alternative coins than Bitcoin because it is harder to buy and make higher ROI from Bitcoin but way easier to make 20x from other alternative coins, why should I hate?

Bitcoin is the best, I accept the fact, but it is not the last opportunity to make gains in this space, I will cut ties with anyone if they show signs of Bitcoin maxis they are toxic for my health.

[Abiky]

My question is why now? This is a point that I have been trying to proof for ages, but I wonder why this topic is getting attention right now.

Anyways, right from day 1 I am never a fan of Bitcoin maxis because everything else seem wrong in their eyes, I remember in 2020 how many Bitcoin maxis are talking shit about Shiba inu and Axie infinite, but in 2021 these projects created new millionaires, I bet they hated that this happened, I am water I don't have enemies in this space, I am open to every possibility.

I like Bitcoin as much as I like other coins, hate like you want but I am still going to look elsewhere, because I am an opportunist, I have make more gains from alternative coins than Bitcoin because it is harder to buy and make higher ROI from Bitcoin but way easier to make 20x from other alternative coins, why should I hate?

Bitcoin is the best, I accept the fact, but it is not the last opportunity to make gains in this space, I will cut ties with anyone if they show signs of Bitcoin maxis they are toxic for my health.

Exactly. Why not take advantage of other coins to make money? You can try experimental features on new coins before they're rolled out into the main Bitcoin blockchain. I get that 99% of altcoins are centralized. But that doesn't mean you should avoid them. Bitcoin maximalists aren't open to healthy competition or true innovation within the crypto/Blockchain industry (no offense). They think BTC will solve all of the world's problems. But that's not truly the case.

If BTC was the only cryptocurrency in the world, it would've been "overloaded" already. That's where altcoins come in. They help lower the burden on the main Bitcoin blockchain. The more there are, the greater the network effect will be. Set yourself forward 10 years, and everything will be the same as it is right now. Except that Bitcoin will be bigger and stronger than ever. Just buy, "hodl", and forget about the rest.

[kro55]

My question is why now? This is a point that I have been trying to proof for ages, but I wonder why this topic is getting attention right now.

In my opinion, you don't need to prove anything to anyone, we need to define what our purpose is and just focus on that. Because I think the results will speak for themselves instead of spending a lot of time arguing without being able to come to a final conclusion.

I just know that I entered this market to make money, to help my family improve their lives, not to argue and prove that I am right. If we argue and win but don't make as much profit as the other person, did we really win? In business and investing, the one who makes the most profit wins.
You are right, bitcoin is the best but it is not the only investment in this market. Many altcoins have great potential so it would be a waste if we ignore them just because of our stubbornness and conservatism.

[vjudeu]

Why not take advantage of other coins to make money?

Because you have to sell your BTCs, to get them. And if you mine ALTs, then you are probably going to sell them to other users, and get some BTCs instead. And because a lot of altcoins are started from scratch, then, at the beginning, their supply is quite low, so the first miners have a huge incentive to sell everything they mine, because it is very likely, that the price of their ALTs will be lower in the future, as more coins will be mined.

You can try experimental features on new coins before they're rolled out into the main Bitcoin blockchain.

If that would be the end goal, then altcoins wouldn't create any new coins from scratch. Instead, they would accept coins from existing chains, and by validating a signature, will grant each user exactly the same amount, to experiment with.

Also, altcoins struggle with "rolling out into the main Bitcoin blockchain", so their features stay on ALT-only, and are often not ported into BTC.

I get that 99% of altcoins are centralized. But that doesn't mean you should avoid them.

If some altcoin is centralized, then you can have 1:1 peg with that, just by creating 1-of-2 multisig, where one key belongs to some centralized entity, and another key is owned by the user. And then, the creator can use its own key, to execute any kind of contract, on top of existing BTC network. Also, in that case, it would be auditable, because you would know, how many coins were moved by users, and how many of them were sweeped by the altcoin creator.

They think BTC will solve all of the world's problems.

This is not always the case. I don't think that BTC will rule the world forever. But I think, that we have too many coins, and too many separate monetary bases. And that causes a lot of problems, because you are forced to trade between those coins, to use them in any meaningful way.

I have nothing against separate chains. You can always create a new chain, with a new history, and call it an altcoin. But why that history should use completely new coins, instead of wrapping existing ones? If you sign existing coins instead, then at least you can move your transactions to the original chain, in the future. Or batch them, and move a batched version.

If BTC was the only cryptocurrency in the world, it would've been "overloaded" already.

No, because:
1. If you have the same coins, but separate chains, then your usage of a coin on an alternative chain, is not affecting the main chain.
2. By having an alternative history, you can batch it, and push a batched version into the main chain. Which also allows removing unnecessary data, and that kind of feature is not possible, if there is no "upper layer".
3. You don't have to push all your data to the main chain. In case of "cloud storage use cases", all you need, is just saying: "here is my signature, you can download my data from this alternative chain, and watch my coin movements on the main chain". Then, adding any data to the coin, costs you zero additional mainchain bytes, and it is all about tweaking your signature, to commit to that data.
4. If everyone agrees, then there is no need to execute any complex contract on-chain, and you can stick with just public keys and signatures. Scripts should be used only, where there is some kind of disagreement, some party goes offline, and so on.

The more there are, the greater the network effect will be.

Only as long, as coins are converted back into BTCs. But if more and more coins will stay in other networks, then BTC will get weaker, because of that.

[franky1]

Bitcoin maximalists aren't open to healthy competition or true innovation within the crypto/Blockchain industry (no offense). They think BTC will solve all of the world's problems. But that's not truly the case.

If BTC was the only cryptocurrency in the world, it would've been "overloaded" already.

wrong on all three cases
bitcoin maximalists are not the ones that are not open to innovation. as long as the innovation improves bitcoin for bitcoiners and not some silly new feature that involves offramping people off the network
bitcoin maximalists actually do want bitcoin scaling and proposals that make bitcoin better and the most preferred coin.. however they also do not want a "only currency in the world", they just dont want the centralists to invade bitcoin code control, and then only do alterations that cause people to have headaches when using bitcoin and end up having to(by force) be offramped to other networks which the centralists profit from by duping people into moving to

people are free to choose their preferred currency but those that choose bitcoin should then not be forced to leave bitcoin for another network,

if i like a lamborghini and can afford a lamborghini, i should be allowed to have a lamborghini.. i should not be told that the climate activists have got jobs at the lambo factory and restricted the engine to only perform at speeds of a bicycle whilst adding weight so that the toll bridge charges are high, because they prefer lambo drivers to get out their car and buy a electric scooter or ride a bicycle. if you want to ride a bicycle and electric scooter, go do so, just dont ruin life for others that actually like a good drive

[Synchronice]

Maximalism is the mindset that your project is the only valid one. This approach leads to a refusal to consider new information. It is dogmatic and somewhat intellectually limiting, in my opinion. And I have encountered it several times in this forum.

Bitcoin maximalists tend to dismiss the perspectives of those outside Bitcoin. While I respect the economic tenets of Bitcoin, such as digital scarcity, the superiority complex should not overshadow technical discussions. Bitcoin is not inherently superior to other cryptocurrencies like Monero or Litecoin; it simply has its own trade-offs.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

Am surprised at how you brought whom is considered the father of evolution into this. The bioscience into the science of blockchain technology.
Well, the survival of the fittest theory is a theory of change. As what isn’t susceptible to change breaks. If a metal isn’t mailable, it breaks.

I was watching a video where Nel deGrasse Tyson was talking about the evolution and it was quite interesting. He said that it's not the strongest that survives, it's the ones that adapt. His example were dogs. Dogs, that used to be strong and aggressive, didn't survive because humans would kill them at each bite, so, over time, weaker and softer dogs survived and we finally domesticated them, this is really interesting.

Many even believe that bitcoin trading will help many unemployed people earn an income   . To them, Bitcoin is like a panacea, it can solve all the world's problems just by using Bitcoin.

Yes, they'll trade, earn money and I'll work to make bread for them, to deliver their parcels, to bring them coffee, of course. The fact that many people think like that only means that they have no idea how world works and really think that if they have money, then everything come out of nowhere without any work.
Basically, AFAIK, some people still think that it's governments' duty to give them a huge amount of money every day while they'll sit at home and do nothing.

[Orpichukwu]

LTC is being used more than BTC as a currency at the moment and yet its price is still failing against btc.

BTC lost its use case for micro transactions aka coffee purchases.

Absolutely correct. Nowadays, it's easier to see someone who will propose to pay you for service with LTC compared to BTC. The LTC usage case is just increasing on a daily basis, and I think most people started moving over and getting familiar with the currency (LTC) during the last ATH on Bitcoin transaction fee. 
 
Why the price of LTC still falls against Bitcoin could also be as a result of Bitcoin occupying the highest trading volume in the market; there is still a higher belief in the market, which is like "an injury to Bitcoin is an injury to all." 

[Smartvirus]

I was watching a video where Nel deGrasse Tyson was talking about the evolution and it was quite interesting. He said that it's not the strongest that survives, it's the ones that adapt. His example were dogs. Dogs, that used to be strong and aggressive, didn't survive because humans would kill them at each bite, so, over time, weaker and softer dogs survived and we finally domesticated them, this is really interesting.

That’s some theory, Charles Darwin wouldn’t like the sound of that very much although, it could be imagined differently. Where the fittest at this point doesn’t necessarily means strength but, the ability to adjust and fit in with the humans that now shares habitats with these animals. Man has been the invader and you really get to wonder where does man really fits in nature.
Well, we are talking about Bitcoin here and as such, let’s go back to it.

LTC is being used more than BTC as a currency at the moment and yet its price is still failing against btc.

BTC lost its use case for micro transactions aka coffee purchases.

Absolutely correct. Nowadays, it's easier to see someone who will propose to pay you for service with LTC compared to BTC. The LTC usage case is just increasing on a daily basis, and I think most people started moving over and getting familiar with the currency (LTC) during the last ATH on Bitcoin transaction fee.

Fees has been the basic reason behind every alternative option to Bitcoin. Make no mistake, these alternatives can’t and wouldn’t replace Bitcoin. They just serve there purpose for a time and then, Bitcoin continues its dominance.

[bubilas]

Maximalism is the mindset that your project is the only valid one. This approach leads to a refusal to consider new information. It is dogmatic and somewhat intellectually limiting, in my opinion. And I have encountered it several times in this forum.

Bitcoin maximalists tend to dismiss the perspectives of those outside Bitcoin. While I respect the economic tenets of Bitcoin, such as digital scarcity, the superiority complex should not overshadow technical discussions. Bitcoin is not inherently superior to other cryptocurrencies like Monero or Litecoin; it simply has its own trade-offs.

However, there's more to consider. Bitcoin embodies the free-market ideals envisioned by Austrian economists, who would likely support a market of competing currencies. To me, that means Bitcoin embraces this variety of cryptocurrencies. Being a Bitcoin maximalist is actually contrary to the spirit of Bitcoin, because it involves unwavering support for Bitcoin, when you should be skeptical and rigorous in examining its potential weaknesses. We move forward in life by addressing our flaws, not by celebrating our achievements. As Charles Darwin said,

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

Don't be myopic and dogmatic. Say no to maximalism.

And this is absolutely the right decision. I believe that extremes in views are always bad, you need to have flexible thinking and the ability to reconsider your established views.

In the vector of discussing Bitcoin, I want to say that I agree with this judgment of yours. Bitcoin is good because it was not hacked, but Ordinals made it impractical, and we all saved ourselves through other cryptocurrencies - altcoins. Therefore, you can't have one opinion and think that only it is correct. You need to be able to understand other people, this is important.