Say no to maximalism

[BlackHatCoiner]

Maximalism is the mindset that your project is the only valid one. This approach leads to a refusal to consider new information. It is dogmatic and somewhat intellectually limiting, in my opinion. And I have encountered it several times in this forum.

Bitcoin maximalists tend to dismiss the perspectives of those outside Bitcoin. While I respect the economic tenets of Bitcoin, such as digital scarcity, the superiority complex should not overshadow technical discussions. Bitcoin is not inherently superior to other cryptocurrencies like Monero or Litecoin; it simply has its own trade-offs.

However, there's more to consider. Bitcoin embodies the free-market ideals envisioned by Austrian economists, who would likely support a market of competing currencies. To me, that means Bitcoin embraces this variety of cryptocurrencies. Being a Bitcoin maximalist is actually contrary to the spirit of Bitcoin, because it involves unwavering support for Bitcoin, when you should be skeptical and rigorous in examining its potential weaknesses. We move forward in life by addressing our flaws, not by celebrating our achievements. As Charles Darwin said,

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

Don't be myopic and dogmatic. Say no to maximalism.

[Mia Chloe]

Maximalism is quite a thing though. I've never been of the opinion that bitcoin is 100% better than every other crypto currency. Undoubtedly bitcoin has been the best when it comes to investment so far especially in the case of long term investment.  However for a couple of other things like fees especially in times of congestion bitcoin wasn't the best option. The fact is everyone is condemning altcoins because too many of them out there are simply pump and dump schemes.

Many persons are unable to differentiate these pump and dump coins that's why they end up losing funds to them . Bitcoin has actually proven to be the best at long term returns and that's just fact coupled with decentralisation. Altcoins too have their own applications like in cases of more frequent and light weight transactions.

[Churchillvv]

Perhaps I'm not a bitcoin maximalist but I do encourage people to maximise every opportunity that they have in bitcoin and any other investment, it's better to maximise opportunities than make some rigorous thinking that might end up obstructing your opportunities.

It's quite unfortunate that here in the forum we have some bitcoin maximalist squad that are not ready to compromise their beloved but I think they are more obsessed with the currency and anti altcoins but perhaps altcoins are not irrelevant as they deem it to be but they have their own values that they add to the space but more for advance coiners.

But one thing I will have to address is the fact that bitcoin is a paradigm or a paradigmic currency that just shifted our knowledge or thinking but it's not a cult, I see people try to make bitcoin seem like a cult or a thing to worship but in all I wouldn't discourage the act because it's perpetual to them.

Fact remains that we can't change people's beliefs, everyone is entitled to what he or she wants to believe... for me, it's just stay real.

[Felicity_Tide]

This is a very good discussion that you've raised, and I think I have also noticed it myself. Well, I think one major reasons why we have so many maximalist(if there is a word like that), might be because of there personal financial experience with other crypto outside Bitcoin. They might have lost heavily or fall victim of failed projects, and other things we can think of as far as alts are concerned. While, there are others who don't even have any personal experience with things outside Bitcoin, but assume or end up becoming a maximalist because of what others proclaim.

the superiority complex should not overshadow technical discussions.

I don't really know the level of maximalism when it comes to technical discussion, because I have always focus more to learning about the technical aspect of Bitcoin and nothing else, which I don't know if it's the right thing to do. Maybe that is even a sign of being a maximalist, or maybe it's because of the environment(space) i found myself, which I think might be different if I where to in another.

[pakhitheboss]

Why?

These guys are the reason why Bitcoin has been thriving and growing. They never said anything bad about Bitcoin but they did infor everyone that apart from Bitcoin nothing can survive that long. They were the one who made Bitcoin a global essential commodity. These are the guys which make Bitcon what it is meant to be and they are right about it.

The problem here is that we guys don't have the capacity to buy a full 1BTC and to get it fast we use the altcoins route. Which according to my understanding is the fastest way to get to that point rather than accumulating more every moth or week with the hard earned fiat.

You might be a privilege one as being some of the first guys to be part this forum. We were not that lucky enough but we still feel that we can be a big supporter of Bitcoin by becoming a maximalist by using altcoins as an alternative to gain more satoshis.

[Adbitco]

There are used for other coins but what happened is trust, like Bitcoin has been so printed in the heart of everyone and of course what the way other are being presented couples with the lack of trust in other currency make it looks like it's most valuable against every other coin. But to me it's 'No'  every coin has there potential and usecase the ability for we to understand the usefulness of them all truly matter but whatmore? We so much been giving this mindsets that other coin doesn't worth whereby increase use of a specific currencies with this knowledge we felt other concepts and ideas doesn't count and of course we know there are lots of ideas which to give birth to various things just as how Bitcoin was birth out of knowledge.

[mindrust]

Actually bitcoin is superior to the other alts in many ways. None of the alts have the same network effect which bitcoin has. Bitcoin had a natural coin distribution since the beginning and it is because even though satoshi was the first miner, his coins never moved.

Charlie Lee on the other hand, dumped his coins on the LTC investors. Whether it was a good thing or bad, it depends how you look at it but it happened and LTC couldn't recover from that dump. It is a good thing, because the worst has already happened. Nothing worse can happen to LTC. The bad thing is, the worst thing has happened. :/

Something like that will never happen to bitcoin.

[bitmover]

Actually bitcoin is superior to the other alts in many ways. None of the alts have the same network effect which bitcoin has. Bitcoin had a natural coin distribution since the beginning and it is because even though satoshi was the first miner, his coins never moved.

I strongly agree that bitcoin is far superior than every other altcoin.

However, there is a point in BlackHatCoiner argument, which he didn't mention: there are good opportunities outside cryptocurrencies.

There are many other good assets around: Gold, stocks, other metals, even treasuries or other bonds. The World is so vast to be fixed in 1 type of asset.

[philipma1957]

Why?

These guys are the reason why Bitcoin has been thriving and growing. They never said anything bad about Bitcoin but they did infor everyone that apart from Bitcoin nothing can survive that long. They were the one who made Bitcoin a global essential commodity. These are the guys which make Bitcon what it is meant to be and they are right about it.

The problem here is that we guys don't have the capacity to buy a full 1BTC and to get it fast we use the altcoins route. Which according to my understanding is the fastest way to get to that point rather than accumulating more every moth or week with the hard earned fiat.

You might be a privilege one as being some of the first guys to be part this forum. We were not that lucky enough but we still feel that we can be a big supporter of Bitcoin by becoming a maximalist by using altcoins as an alternative to gain more satoshis.

nope it is elitism and a terrible way to think.

Sad that you argue for it.

Now does that mean I want 12000 other coins  no I don't.

A few hundred are more than what is needed.



The math so so fucking simply that scrypt algo for small p2p payments meaning LTC and Doge crushes BTC for small p2p payments that I basically. get disgust when people talk btc and second layer is all you need. Bullshit simply not true.

Stop the fucking argument
 Stop wanting to use a tractor trailer to deliver a single lunch.


thus at a minimum you need to accept sha 256 and scrypt. or you are simply delusional

Sorry to rip you but I am right and you are wrong.


Oh wait sound like I am practicing crypto inclusionim is that as bad as BTC maximalism

up to you to decide. not me.  my mind is made up

[Darker45]

I have noticed a handful of people here who seemed to have changed tune over the years. When Bitcoin maximalists somehow dominated the social media, they also claimed to be maximalists themselves, Bitcoin-only people. They're not genuinely maximalists by principle though. They seem to be simply parroting what's popular. And they're easily swayed by opportunities that one could get from shitcoins, airdops, DeFi, staking, meme coins, and other garbage.

But they aren't a special group of people. Even popular so-called maximalists are hypocrites themselves. They're Bitcoin-only but they'll readily make use of stablecoins whenever convenience calls for it. They're maximalists and yet they've developed centralized platforms and custodial services. They claim to be solid Bitcoin advocates and yet they're supporting KYC. This goes on.

In reality, Bitcoin maximalism is but a mirage.

[Findingnemo]

I am not a maximalist but an enthusiast,

If we only have Bitcoin then it will not survive I mean it just suffocate and we already witnessed what happened when ordinals invaded the network so Bitcoin is not really made to handle millions of TXs per minute, it's just a lot better in terms of decentralization which no other coin may not achieve it for a while but it doesn't mean I am refusing LTC or coins that runs smart contracts but the only problem is the repetitive idea that just been spinning in the different names with nothing new and just for the sake of bump and dump which are bad and those needed to be avoided like plague.

[ranochigo]

Thanks for saying it and that's what I've been experiencing with majority of the threads so far. Bitcoiners tend to ignore the obvious to push the narrative and their refusal to try to address or acknowledge Bitcoin's shortcomings is laughable. There were instances, specifically recently where I've been engaging in several discussions relating to Bitcoin as an investment, Bitcoin's "HODL" mindset and volatility is good just to name a few.

Tons of these threads are literally circlejerks with repeated parroting of the Bitcoin is the best narrative, or whatever the topic was about. Threads like these are frankly rather pointless and don't encourage any discussion or critical thinking. I'd attribute most of this to the maximalism mindset and some of this to their limited understanding.

Undoubtedly bitcoin has been the best when it comes to investment so far especially in the case of long term investment.  However for a couple of other things like fees especially in times of congestion bitcoin wasn't the best option. The fact is everyone is condemning altcoins because too many of them out there are simply pump and dump schemes.

Many persons are unable to differentiate these pump and dump coins that's why they end up losing funds to them . Bitcoin has actually proven to be the best at long term returns and that's just fact coupled with decentralisation. Altcoins too have their own applications like in cases of more frequent and light weight transactions.

Bitcoin has never been proven to be a best long term investment. The horizon for what is considered long term is far beyond Bitcoin's current lifespan, and that the fact that we've been through so many volatile periods practically proves my point. If you argue that Bitcoin is good because it has experienced XXX% growth in the past 5 years, then it cannot be considered the "best long term investment". This is a good example of Bitcoin maximalism.

[bitcoindusts]

Why?

These guys are the reason why Bitcoin has been thriving and growing. They never said anything bad about Bitcoin but they did infor everyone that apart from Bitcoin nothing can survive that long. They were the one who made Bitcoin a global essential commodity. These are the guys which make Bitcon what it is meant to be and they are right about it.

These Maximalist will not say anything bad about Bitcoin but for them everything outside Bitcoin is not good.  I tend to believe that these people think that you will lose your life if you patronize other cryptocurrency.  I agree that they are part of people who push Bitcoin to become essential commodity but due to their belief that other than Bitcoin any cryptocurrency is inferior, they tend to neglect a possible development with the help of altcoin technology.

The problem here is that we guys don't have the capacity to buy a full 1BTC and to get it fast we use the altcoins route. Which according to my understanding is the fastest way to get to that point rather than accumulating more every moth or week with the hard earned fiat.

I do not think that this is an issue if we talk about Bitcoin maximalism.  It is the state of mind of people not the state of their pocket.

[franky1]

bitcoin maximalism is not about thinking bitcoin should be only managed as one project EG (only core decide protocol changes)
bitcoin maximalism is not about thinking bitcoin should be the only currency(all other coins are dead)

its that some people only WANT to personally hold and use bitcoin and support bitcoin personally

its also funny how for many years blackhatcoiner was supporting that core be the only protocol manager of bitcoin proposals, he have been vile in his arguments about any other dev group attempting to offer proposals

seems he is again trying to change history and attempting to control the narrative.. re defining buzzwords to his preference
.. and no i dont think blackhatcoiner has made a genuine change to his motives and is now thinking independently he is still a core centric supporter and has never even tried to be sceptical or critical minded about the decisions of core

[Solosanz]

That's why I'm not someone who always say Bitcoin for everything.

If someone looking for safe investment, they should go for Bitcoin.

If someone looking for privacy, they should go for Monero.

If someone looking for cheap fees, they should go for Litecoin or Doge.

I don't get the point when people are supporting the countries should accept Bitcoin as a legal tender, I really doubt that they will choose to pay using Bitcoin over fiat since using Bitcoin make you need to spend fees whenever you create new transaction.

[Marvelockg]

When you're involved in a project that has current and emerging competitors and you know that relative to all the other competitors around it, none's better than it, do you just sit back and allow the others to paint themselves as the best while you do nothing about it? I feel we've got to know that nothing is irreplaceable as long as people aren't enthusiastic about it. Part of what makes Bitcoin what it is now is the fact that people believe that it's the best digital asset that is and that can possibly ever be. It's left for those involved in another project to put in the required effort in promoting theirs.

Except I'm getting it all wrong if not I don't think it's a bad thing to be a core Bitcoin enthusiast who speaks and defends what he knows about Bitcoin that propels him to consider it an asset to invest into. Even in the sports niche, Real Madrid fans believed that the club is the best in the world even though there had been instances when other clubs did better than them. It's not that they are maximist but rather they are just enthusiastic about their club. Though not too old in the bitcoin ecosystem, I'm yet to find an alternative digital asset that's as strong and resistive as Bitcoin and if I'm being bullish about it in my views about it, it's based on this ground.

[BlackHatCoiner]

These guys are the reason why Bitcoin has been thriving and growing.

I rarely encounter Bitcoin developers who are maximalists. Typically, they are open-minded and appreciate the strengths of other networks that address areas where Bitcoin has limitations, such as privacy (e.g., Monero).

Actually bitcoin is superior to the other alts in many ways. None of the alts have the same network effect which bitcoin has. Bitcoin had a natural coin distribution since the beginning and it is because even though satoshi was the first miner, his coins never moved.

I get it, Bitcoin is more ethical than all the other altcoins. It is superior in that particular property, but "superior in general"? I wouldn't say so. Bitcoin has terrible privacy, everyone I know is migrating to Monero, and for good reason.

However, there is a point in BlackHatCoiner argument, which he didn't mention: there are good opportunities outside cryptocurrencies.

Again, I wasn't talking about capital appreciation. More about the protocol properties and its trade-offs. It does appreciate better than other altcoins, given the less risk.

[philipma1957]

These guys are the reason why Bitcoin has been thriving and growing.

I rarely encounter Bitcoin developers who are maximalists. Typically, they are open-minded and appreciate the strengths of other networks that address areas where Bitcoin has limitations, such as privacy (e.g., Monero).

Actually bitcoin is superior to the other alts in many ways. None of the alts have the same network effect which bitcoin has. Bitcoin had a natural coin distribution since the beginning and it is because even though satoshi was the first miner, his coins never moved.

I get it, Bitcoin is more ethical than all the other altcoins. It is superior in that particular property, but "superior in general"? I wouldn't say so. Bitcoin has terrible privacy, everyone I know is migrating to Monero, and for good reason.

However, there is a point in BlackHatCoiner argument, which he didn't mention: there are good opportunities outside cryptocurrencies.

Again, I wasn't talking about capital appreciation. More about the protocol properties and its trade-offs. It does appreciate better than other altcoins, given the less risk.

yes it does appreciate well.

i have personally watched six dollar price turn into the current 60,000 price now.

but due to its vast size it simply is not suited well for p2p

i do not get my pzzia delivered to me in a mack truck it is not suited for shipping a single pizza 🍕 shop to private home.

[Kruw]

I get it, Bitcoin is more ethical than all the other altcoins. It is superior in that particular property, but "superior in general"? I wouldn't say so. Bitcoin has terrible privacy, everyone I know is migrating to Monero, and for good reason.

Bitcoin doesn't have terrible privacy, your transactions are untraceable when you use coinjoins: https://mempool.space/tx/fc13786aa9a350d06e7f63c69e7989917981c689f284a7eba3130cde958e23bb

[BlackHatCoiner]

Bitcoin doesn't have terrible privacy, your transactions are untraceable when you use coinjoins: https://mempool.space/tx/fc13786aa9a350d06e7f63c69e7989917981c689f284a7eba3130cde958e23bb

When I say that it has terrible privacy, I don't mean it's impossible to maintain privacy. What I mean is that the protocol lacks a strong focus on privacy. Sure, you can take advantage of the way transactions work, and build things like coinjoin, but the network, given as is, does not come with anything apart from coin control.

Coinjoin is an interactive process, which is a significant drawback. The ability to seamlessly pay anyone without any interaction beyond broadcasting the transaction, as in ring signatures, is vastly superior to coinjoin. Not only does it offer greater robustness by eliminating the need for a coordinator, but it also provides an anonymity set that is orders of magnitude larger. (Since you can pick decoys from outputs of past transactions.)